Heliolisk works on both rain and sun, getting essentially +1 in sun with Solar Power (it's 1.5 right?)
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Metagame NP: RU Stage 4: Do My Thang (READ POST #2)
- Thread starter Molk
- Start date
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Heliolisk isn't bad in sunlight, but it just loses so much HP over time. It wants to utilize Life Orb to get the most out of its solid coverage, but this means losing out on about 22% of its max HP per attack in sunlight. This also removes its immunity to Water-type moves, which is very helpful for Rain teams considering the boost Water-type moves have. I just prefer it in Rain due to the fact it gets to run 100% accurate Thunders and psuedo-STAB Surf all while losing no HP by running Life Orb in rain due to Dry Skin's healing effect.
Definitely better in rain, yeah, but while it's there it's nice, however it gets worn down by residual damage easily, i agree.
59 | Kingdra | 3.830% | | 60 | Houndoom | 3.532%
rest in piece savior dog
anyways, i also really like qwilfish in this meta atm. having access to both hazards and explosion, as wel as intimidate make it have a few standouts from the likes of accelgor and omastar, and actually prevents spinning (unlike omastar) with explosion while dealing a good chunk of damage to the likes of gligar, golbat, and hitmonlee at the same time. really shoul be used more.
i also think regirock has a lot of potential in stall, thanks to its ability to check the likes of moltres, meloetta, exploud, and delphox much easier than rhyperior could. there's not much else to say about it, but it should be mentioned.
rest in piece savior dog
anyways, i also really like qwilfish in this meta atm. having access to both hazards and explosion, as wel as intimidate make it have a few standouts from the likes of accelgor and omastar, and actually prevents spinning (unlike omastar) with explosion while dealing a good chunk of damage to the likes of gligar, golbat, and hitmonlee at the same time. really shoul be used more.
i also think regirock has a lot of potential in stall, thanks to its ability to check the likes of moltres, meloetta, exploud, and delphox much easier than rhyperior could. there's not much else to say about it, but it should be mentioned.
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I guess we have to rely on sneasel to save us lol, savior dog let us down.
m-muh savior dog
Well, RU didn't change at all (Wobba fails without Stag) technically.
Well, RU didn't change at all (Wobba fails without Stag) technically.
Did Goth go OU or not?
yes
and even if it didn't, it's probably outclassed by Meowstic-F without Shadow Tag, lol.
Meowstic-F is fast, but not fast enough, its outsped by way too many things to do much with the competitive boost. Goth has a slow enough speed to abuse trick room and be far more difficult to play around and revenge, and is otherwise bulkier and hits harder.
I tried it in UU when it first dropped, and though it was by no means great, it did the job better than any other competitive user I'd tried. I wanted to try it in RU, but alas ;_;
I tried it in UU when it first dropped, and though it was by no means great, it did the job better than any other competitive user I'd tried. I wanted to try it in RU, but alas ;_;
Meowstick-F is as fast as Delphox (so it is pretty quick actually) but the speed is not the main problem.
Meowstick takes too much damage from all the defogger it can switch into and doesn't even have the coverage to take advantage of the boosts. Stuff like Delhpox and Meloetta while hitting a bit less hard compared to boosed Mewostick outclasses it in any case more than making up for the lack of competitive with immediate power and access to coverage moves like Focus Blast and Fire Blast to donk conventional psychic type checks like say Registeel and Drapion who Meowstick is completely helpless against.
Gothitelle would be in a similar boat as it simply doesn't have the stats, typing, and movepool go abuse Competitive lol
No Savior Dog saddens me :( We couldn't ditch Hitmoncrap and Suckdol either, which just adds insult to injury tbh.
There's a reason why Milotic was the only good Competitive user to grace RU; it actually had bulk and reliable recovery to be able to switch in again and again. Not only that, but it completely got a free switch-in vs. Gligar no matter the move it came in against. Meowstic-F and Gothitelle don't have this luxury as Meowstic-F gets roughed up by U-turn p. easily while Gothitelle lacks the Speed to hit Gligar before it U-turns out. Both are also major Pursuit bait, something Milotic never struggled with. Milotic also had the needed coverage to deal with common Water-type switch-ins, something that Meowstic-F and Gothitelle lack for their common switch-ins.
There's a reason why Milotic was the only good Competitive user to grace RU; it actually had bulk and reliable recovery to be able to switch in again and again. Not only that, but it completely got a free switch-in vs. Gligar no matter the move it came in against. Meowstic-F and Gothitelle don't have this luxury as Meowstic-F gets roughed up by U-turn p. easily while Gothitelle lacks the Speed to hit Gligar before it U-turns out. Both are also major Pursuit bait, something Milotic never struggled with. Milotic also had the needed coverage to deal with common Water-type switch-ins, something that Meowstic-F and Gothitelle lack for their common switch-ins.
rip houndoom ;-;.
Anyways, to try and steer the discussion away from tier shifts/theorymonning about Competitive Gothitelle. What does everyone think about RU Stall at the moment? With both Yanmega and Zoroark gone from the tier i feel like stall has an easier time being viable in the current metagame. RU has all the tools a stall team needs to be viable, and from my experience from both using and facing stall, a well built RU stall team can be *really* hard to break.
Personally, i feel like Alomomola is the face of stall at the moment. Its physical bulk is absolutely incredible (and when EVed properly its special bulk isn't too shabby either!), and mono water is a pretty solid defensive typing in RU, meaning that it can easily take on*very* large portions of the metagame. Combine this with an absolutely massive Wish (the largest in the game outside of Blissey and Chansey), and one of the best possible abilities a defensive Pokemon or Wishpasser could have in the form of Regenerator (it gets much much easier to wishpass when you don't have to spend time staying in to heal yourself, trust me), and you have an extremely good defensive Pokemon that doesn't just wall things, but supports the rest of its team exceptionally well too. Alomomola struggles a little bit with being too passive, it has to rely on Toxic+Protect and fishing for Scald burns to pose any real threat, which can make it set up bait for things such as Calm Mind Reuniclus and SubBU Braviary, but that's what team support is for, any good stall team should have a way around bulky set up sweepers like that regardless.
Aromatisse isn't too shabby either. Just like Alomomola it has the bulk and typing to wall a very large portion of the metagame, and its ev spread can be adapted quite easily depending on what the specific stall team needs (if you need a Hitmonlee check, physically defensive Aromatisse will do the job fine, need a catch all check to special attackers? Specially Defensive Aromatisse will work great!). Just like Alomomola it doesn't just wall things, it provides team support in the form of Wish and Aromatherapy, ensuring that it always pulls its weight. Unlike Alomomola, Aromatisse doesn't have access to Regenerator, which makes it a bit more prone to offensive pressure (against a good offensive player Aromatisse will often be forced between a rock and a hard place, stay in and heal itself, or let itself get worn down and heal up its teammates, Alomomola's passive recovery means it doesn't have this problem nearly as often), but having a complete immunity to Taunt is pretty notable for stall teams as well.
So, what's your personal opinion on stall at the moment? Do you think its a viable/good playstyle? Do you agree that Alomomola and Aromatisse hold stall as RU knows it together? Do you have any good stall cores you want to share? How do you beat stall? and what are some big threats to stall?
Anyways, to try and steer the discussion away from tier shifts/theorymonning about Competitive Gothitelle. What does everyone think about RU Stall at the moment? With both Yanmega and Zoroark gone from the tier i feel like stall has an easier time being viable in the current metagame. RU has all the tools a stall team needs to be viable, and from my experience from both using and facing stall, a well built RU stall team can be *really* hard to break.
Personally, i feel like Alomomola is the face of stall at the moment. Its physical bulk is absolutely incredible (and when EVed properly its special bulk isn't too shabby either!), and mono water is a pretty solid defensive typing in RU, meaning that it can easily take on*very* large portions of the metagame. Combine this with an absolutely massive Wish (the largest in the game outside of Blissey and Chansey), and one of the best possible abilities a defensive Pokemon or Wishpasser could have in the form of Regenerator (it gets much much easier to wishpass when you don't have to spend time staying in to heal yourself, trust me), and you have an extremely good defensive Pokemon that doesn't just wall things, but supports the rest of its team exceptionally well too. Alomomola struggles a little bit with being too passive, it has to rely on Toxic+Protect and fishing for Scald burns to pose any real threat, which can make it set up bait for things such as Calm Mind Reuniclus and SubBU Braviary, but that's what team support is for, any good stall team should have a way around bulky set up sweepers like that regardless.
Aromatisse isn't too shabby either. Just like Alomomola it has the bulk and typing to wall a very large portion of the metagame, and its ev spread can be adapted quite easily depending on what the specific stall team needs (if you need a Hitmonlee check, physically defensive Aromatisse will do the job fine, need a catch all check to special attackers? Specially Defensive Aromatisse will work great!). Just like Alomomola it doesn't just wall things, it provides team support in the form of Wish and Aromatherapy, ensuring that it always pulls its weight. Unlike Alomomola, Aromatisse doesn't have access to Regenerator, which makes it a bit more prone to offensive pressure (against a good offensive player Aromatisse will often be forced between a rock and a hard place, stay in and heal itself, or let itself get worn down and heal up its teammates, Alomomola's passive recovery means it doesn't have this problem nearly as often), but having a complete immunity to Taunt is pretty notable for stall teams as well.
So, what's your personal opinion on stall at the moment? Do you think its a viable/good playstyle? Do you agree that Alomomola and Aromatisse hold stall as RU knows it together? Do you have any good stall cores you want to share? How do you beat stall? and what are some big threats to stall?
phantom
Banned deucer.
That isn't true in the least bit. Stall has been one of the most consistent and best playstyles throughout XY RU and still remains very powerful now. A Standard stall team can cover all of the above just fine. If anything, with Specs Yanmegas's recent departure as well as Zoroark's bullshit, stall as a whole just continually gets better. The above threats don't even beat a good stall team much less hinder its performance. I would say stall is right now one of the most powerful playstyles in RU. The rise of Spikes offensive is annoying, but pulling off a Defog is mere child's play.
phantom
Banned deucer.
There are ways to get around that one as well. Curse Registeel beats it for instance as does Toxic Golbat thanks to infiltrator. Rhyperior is a pretty solid check as well as is Doublade (which works well on stall). If there's anything that can beat stall singley-handedly and 6-0, it's probably a bad team. I really don't agree with the stall is struggling comment. There are many ways to handle a lot of these stallbreakers and there are quite a few teams that can handle all of the ones you mentioned at once.
What are you talking about! Stall has amazing infiltrator mons that bypass Braviary's sub; my favorite been Golbat who can Toxic Braviary and can take him even at +2, Spiritomb is another great example. Will post more about stall later since I have a lot of experience with this playstyle.
I only dabble in RU sometimes but with the two most cancerous thing ever to Grace RU removed, semistall is probabpy going to see a large increase much like uu predrop. RU has a lot of damage nukes that love having something to fall back defensively. The pressure they provide also forces switches pretty well. Sweepers like subcm melo meshes with the playstyle so well
Here's a core that i've been using for the past day or two that i've been finding pretty nice.
Exploud @ Choice Specs
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast
- Surf
Fletchinder
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost
Exploud and Fletchinder come together to form a really simple, but effective offensive core imo. The way it works is pretty simple: Exploud's Choice Specs Boomburst is absurdly powerful, and is quite excellent at breaking down defensive cores and really slower teams in general: letting Exploud in safely can often guarentee a free KO. Meanwhile, Fletchinder's unique access to priority Acrobatics makes it quite the threat to offensive teams with little defensive backbone, easily cleaning up if it can get a Swords Dance boost (which is easier than it looks thanks to Fletchinder's ability to run HP investment, access to Will-O-Wisp, and priority Roost). So what's the big deal here? Well, it just so happens that Exploud's Boomburst and Fletchinder's Acrobatics share their resistances for the most part (Bulky Rock- and Steel-types). As mentioned before, Fletchinder has an incredibly easy time cleaning up once bulky Flying-type resists are removed, which forces the opponent between a rock and a hard place when facing Exploud. Considering how absurdly powerful Exploud's Boomburst is, the opponent is forced into a checkmate position: do they sacrifice something to Exploud's Boomburst? or let their Bulky Steel- or Rock-type take heavy damage, possibly opening up an opportunity for Fletchinder to clean up now that they aren't healthy enough to take a +2 Acrobatics? Outside of weakening each others checks and counters, Exploud and Fletchinder cover each other team matchup wise incredibly well too: Fletchinder heavily threatens offensive teams that can easily revenge kill Exploud and/or limit its switch ins, and Exploud has a great matchup against the bulkier teams that might be able to handle Fletchinder's Acrobatics better. Personally i'd use this along with Defog Gligar, simply for the reliable switch in to Hitmonlee coming in to revenge kill Exploud and U-turn to help either Pokemon switch in easily, along with keeping Stealth Rock off the field for Fletchinder ofc.
Credit to CutForBiebarel (i think??), who i saw using these two mons together before, inspiring me to test it out.
Exploud @ Choice Specs
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast
- Surf
Fletchinder
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost
Exploud and Fletchinder come together to form a really simple, but effective offensive core imo. The way it works is pretty simple: Exploud's Choice Specs Boomburst is absurdly powerful, and is quite excellent at breaking down defensive cores and really slower teams in general: letting Exploud in safely can often guarentee a free KO. Meanwhile, Fletchinder's unique access to priority Acrobatics makes it quite the threat to offensive teams with little defensive backbone, easily cleaning up if it can get a Swords Dance boost (which is easier than it looks thanks to Fletchinder's ability to run HP investment, access to Will-O-Wisp, and priority Roost). So what's the big deal here? Well, it just so happens that Exploud's Boomburst and Fletchinder's Acrobatics share their resistances for the most part (Bulky Rock- and Steel-types). As mentioned before, Fletchinder has an incredibly easy time cleaning up once bulky Flying-type resists are removed, which forces the opponent between a rock and a hard place when facing Exploud. Considering how absurdly powerful Exploud's Boomburst is, the opponent is forced into a checkmate position: do they sacrifice something to Exploud's Boomburst? or let their Bulky Steel- or Rock-type take heavy damage, possibly opening up an opportunity for Fletchinder to clean up now that they aren't healthy enough to take a +2 Acrobatics? Outside of weakening each others checks and counters, Exploud and Fletchinder cover each other team matchup wise incredibly well too: Fletchinder heavily threatens offensive teams that can easily revenge kill Exploud and/or limit its switch ins, and Exploud has a great matchup against the bulkier teams that might be able to handle Fletchinder's Acrobatics better. Personally i'd use this along with Defog Gligar, simply for the reliable switch in to Hitmonlee coming in to revenge kill Exploud and U-turn to help either Pokemon switch in easily, along with keeping Stealth Rock off the field for Fletchinder ofc.
Credit to CutForBiebarel (i think??), who i saw using these two mons together before, inspiring me to test it out.
Speaking of Exploud I have a fun offensive core involving it and Whimsicott.
Exploud @ Choice Specs
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Fire Blast
- Surf
- Focus Blast
Whimsicott @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball / Hurricane / Encore
- Tailwind
Okay so as most of you know the biggest downside to using Exploud is it's average Speed and inability to have a significant impact against Offense. Exploud was undoubtedly most effective in Sticky Web but that as a playstyle is extremely inconsistent due to no reliable Pokemon to set it up and the prevalence of Defog. Tailwind Whimsicott aims to remedy this and can turn Exploud into a monster versus common Offensive builds that rely on out speeding it. Shadow Ball is an interesting option on Whimsicott and can let it blow past Doublade who is not only a common switch into Whimsicott but can also comfortably live a Boomburst from Exploud, Encore can also be useful if your team is weak to set up sweepers and Hurricane is nice for hitting Grass/Poison types such as Amoonguss or Roselia who could freely come in otherwise. Overall I think this is an interesting core that should get some more attention due to it giving Exploud the best of both worlds, Wallbreaking potential and Speed that can let it threaten multiple playstyles, definitely something I recommend people use.
dash.
Exploud @ Choice Specs
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Boomburst
- Fire Blast
- Surf
- Focus Blast
Whimsicott @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball / Hurricane / Encore
- Tailwind
Okay so as most of you know the biggest downside to using Exploud is it's average Speed and inability to have a significant impact against Offense. Exploud was undoubtedly most effective in Sticky Web but that as a playstyle is extremely inconsistent due to no reliable Pokemon to set it up and the prevalence of Defog. Tailwind Whimsicott aims to remedy this and can turn Exploud into a monster versus common Offensive builds that rely on out speeding it. Shadow Ball is an interesting option on Whimsicott and can let it blow past Doublade who is not only a common switch into Whimsicott but can also comfortably live a Boomburst from Exploud, Encore can also be useful if your team is weak to set up sweepers and Hurricane is nice for hitting Grass/Poison types such as Amoonguss or Roselia who could freely come in otherwise. Overall I think this is an interesting core that should get some more attention due to it giving Exploud the best of both worlds, Wallbreaking potential and Speed that can let it threaten multiple playstyles, definitely something I recommend people use.
dash.
I finally have some free time so I'll post my thoughts, team building process, threats and pros and cons about stall.
Stall in the RU XY meta is very different from the one we had in BW2 RU; the Defog buff as well as the addition of powerful wallbreakers like Exploud and Rhperior and the addition of new threats like Meloetta, Reuniclus and Sharpedo makes the passive playstyle difficult to play with; fortunately stall also got new toys to fight against the offensive plague that RU received; new defensive monsters like Aromatisse were added and old allies like Gligar and Registeel returned to the tier and the new item Assault Vest is another niche put cool addition, all of this factors make stall a quite formidable playstyle in the tier.
Pros:
Stall team's objective isn't to sweep with X pokemon, but to wall everything to dead and get some type of hazards on the field (usually Stealth Rocks) and of course prevent your opponent from sweeping with his winning condition or opening holes in your team. Therefore your team should contain pokes that have either a good defensive typing or a way to heal themselves because like I previously said the battles will be very long and often you will recur to PP stall and status conditions to win them.
Step 1: Alomomola
Alomomola @ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Def / 152 SpD
Impish Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Scald
- Toxic
Alomomola IS the face of XY RU stall; with a good offensive typing, amazing HP and Defense stats, nice ability and decent movepool, Alomomola is a must have in a stall team; it walls most of the RU physical sweepers and while sometimes it relies too much on burn it will rarely let you down additionally it can take some special hits and heal herself with the Wish / Protect combo. As if that weren't enough, Alomomola can also pass her giant wishes to heal her allies and has a good synergy with common stall mons like Registeel and Drudiggon. Of course Alomomola has her flaws; relying too much on burns can be problematic and she is extremely vulnerable to status and strong special attacks but when you consider the pros and cons of Alomomola it will definitely be a great and necessary addition to stall teams.
Step 2: Special Walls
In a tier where strong special attackers like Moltres and Meloetta annihilate entire teams, sturdy special walls are required. Remember that each and every wall is unique; Aromatisse, Lickilicky and Audino offer cleric support which supports the rest of your team and can heal themselves while in the other hand things like Registeel, specially defensive Rhyperior and Miltank offer hazard support and can deal with specific threats (will talk more about this in the future) which is often required in a stall team. In conclusion choosing your dedicated special wall can be a tough task and hence to the variety of special threats in the tier you will usually need at least two of this guys.
Step 3: Physical Walls
Even with Alomomola's amazing walling capabilities you will need at least another physical wall that covers her weaknesses and like the special ones, each and every one of them is different; Gligar and Golbat offer Defog support and Weezing completely walls top tier threats like the musketeers, Hitmonlee and Doublade and can set up Toxis Spikes to help your team, Granbull is an interesting option that has Intimidate and Heal Bell to support his teammates and things like Durddigon and Rhyperior can phase and set up hazards for their team.
Step 4: Cleric
Any stall team requires a cleric to succeed; a cleric is a pokemon that can heal status conditions (burn, para, toxic, etc) and sometimes HP via Wish. Like most RU veterans know, Aromatisse is the most popular choice thanks to her immunity to Taunt and useful typing but that doesn't mean she is the only choice; Lickilicky is an underrated cleric that has superior bulk and a phazing move in the form of Dragon Tail, Audino doesn't have any outstanding traits but her useful ability might save you some games and she gets the always useful Knock Off. In conclusion Aromatisse isn't the only cleric in the tier and sometimes using something less popular like Miltank or Lickilicky might be the way to go.
Step 5: Fire resist A.K.A Moltres / Delphox counter
Moltres and Delphox are two pokemon that cause stall a lot of trouble thanks to their high special attack, great offensive movepool and good STAB coverage; I would normally recommend AV Slowking because it also acts as a great special wall but Drudi and Regirock are also viable options although the lack of recovery hurts especially if you're using AV Drudi. Countering this two is tricky but if you get SR as soon as possible and have your fire resist somewhat healthy you should be in a good shape.
Step 6: Psychic resist/ inmunity A.K.A Meloetta /Reuniclus / Sigilyph / CM Cresselia counter
Without Zoroark and Yanmega in the tier, RU plethora of psychic types can finally flourish and all of them can cause trouble to stall teams; Magic Guard makes Reuni and Sigi immune to status and with rising threats like SubCM Meloetta and Cresselia stall needs a pokemon to deal with them. A regular phazer like Slowking could work but if you rely on phazing moves to deal with them and your opponent realizes this they will sack every pokemon in order to set up and sweep. Drapion is by far my favorite because he has many tools to screw up this type of pokes; Taunt cuts their set up, Knock off gets rid of their precious Leftovers, can Pursuit trap them and Whilrwind phases them temporarily. Another good option is Spritomb who has Curse to deal with them if they are the last poke (note that curse does not work if you have Magic Guard) and resist their common moves with the exception of Moon Blast on Cresselia. Meloetta resist their common moves, has Knock off to cripple them and Perish Song to force them out or kill them and finally Escavalier might look like an odd choice for stall teams but with Assault Vest it can become a quite bulky pokemon and he has a powerful STAB move in the form of Megahorn to deal with them and has Knock Off to cripple whatever switches out.
Step 7: Normal resist A.K.AAmbipom Exploud counter
Exploud is by far the most threatening poke for RU stall; it has no immunities thanks to Scrappy and a Choice Specs Boomburst will 2HKO anything that doesn't resist the hit (as a matter of fact, AV Slowking gets 2HKOed) so naturally a pokemon with Rock or Steel type is required. Registeel and Rhyperior are the most popular choices thanks to their nice bulk and ability to set up stealth rocks. Cobalion is an odd choice since he also gets 2HKOed by Specs Boomburst but he is the only counter that offensively checks Exploud thanks to Close Combat and he can also Volt Switch, Taunt and even get Rocks for your team. But even this pokes are shanky counters a good prediction from the Exploud will cost you one of this guys; Registeel and Cobalion hate Focus Blast and Fire Blast and Rhyperior gets raped by Surf and they all lack reliable recovery. I decided to look for more counters and I got shitty things like Soundproof Exploud and Bastidon just to deal with this monster. After looking for quite some time I found that Cradily is the best Exploud counter; Normal resistance, only weak to Focus Blast and reliable recovery make Cradily the best Exploud counter and can sorta take Delphox but tbh I would stick with the first free guys and put something like AV Slowking + Registeel to deal with Exploud.
Step 8: Fighting immunity/ resist
With the great number of viable fighting types in RU ranging from Gurdurr to Virizion, having a designated fighting counter is a must unless you want to get swept by a random SD Gallade. The most popular ones are Gligar, Doublade and Aromatisse but, although they counter most fighting types, they don't counter each and every one of them; CM Cobalion easily deals with Gligar, Doublade and Aromatisse and the Magnet Rise one trolls Gligar, Gurdurr sets up on Gligar and he can't be statused thanks to Guts and even SD Virizion causes huge problems to Gligar and Aromatisse if they are at low health. In other words, opting for less popular choices can be the key here; Golbat is my favorite because he offers Defog support to your team alongside Infiltrator to screw Sub mons and Weezing offers burn and Toxic Spikes support alongside an amazing Ground resistance. In contrast to the other resistances this one has multiple viable options so it shouldn't be a problem but nevertheless always have one of these guys.
How to deal with stall:
Every now and then, people ask me how to deal with full stall teams and my answer is always the same; patience is the key! Like I said, matches are long and sometimes even boring but insulting your oppknent and whinning about it won't help (as a matter of fact it will only boost your opponent's confidence) in a match when I deal with a stall team I do the following steps:
Notice their weakness:
No stall team is perfect and all of them have a specific weakness; when you discover it set a win condition and force the pokemon that blocks it to take damage so you can eventually overwhelm it and open a hole that allows you to do damage/ sweep easier. Of course this is easy in theory but in practice it requires a lot of technique and patience.
Stauts them:
Toxic and Burn annoy stall teams a lot forcing them to go to their clerics and heal their teamates but what a lot of people forget is that Aromatjerapy and heal bell only have 8 pp which can easily be stalled out setting a timer in your opponent's team.
Knock off their items:
A lot of RU walls like Douboade, Gligar and Golbat rely too much in their precious evilolite making them a lot less bulkier without it and therefore easier to KO. Pokemon like Alomomola ams aromatisee will also miss their precious leftovers too making knock off a fantastic move against full stall teams.
Pokemon that are good against stall teams:
Drapion
Drapion is one of the bret answers to stall teams in this tier thanks to his amazing typing, acces to Taunt and Knock off and utility moves like Toxic Spikess and Whirlwind; Drapion can also sweep with the combination of SD and Taunt overall Drapion can stallbreak a lot of unprapared stall teams alone.
Exploud
Unless they have the rare Cradily, exploud will usually get at least one kill against stall teams. Boobmburdt is such an easy move to spsm with virtuslly no drawbacks and acess to Fire bladt and surf to take care of his supposed counters as well as Scrappy as an ability make exploud the bedt wallbreaker in the entire tier.
Moltres
At first glance, Moltres offensive LO set looks like an amazing answer against stall teams but the popularity of AV Slowking makes any offensive set useless; the defensive Subroost set is what really make Moltres an amazing fighter against full stall been able to outslall opposing threats thanks tp Pressure and toxic and has a good defensive typing to take common attacks like aromatisse's moonblast.
I hoped you enjoyed this huge post and be sure to give me constructive criticism :)
Stall in the RU XY meta is very different from the one we had in BW2 RU; the Defog buff as well as the addition of powerful wallbreakers like Exploud and Rhperior and the addition of new threats like Meloetta, Reuniclus and Sharpedo makes the passive playstyle difficult to play with; fortunately stall also got new toys to fight against the offensive plague that RU received; new defensive monsters like Aromatisse were added and old allies like Gligar and Registeel returned to the tier and the new item Assault Vest is another niche put cool addition, all of this factors make stall a quite formidable playstyle in the tier.
Pros:
- Easy to build
- Great walls in the tier
- Little stallbreakers available
- They rarely get nerfed by bans / tier changes
- Knock off buff
- Defog buff
- The delicious salty tears of your opponents
- Slow matches, difficult to ladder (Not recommended for players who care about that)
- Abundance of wallbreakers in the tier
- Knock Off buff
- Defog Buff
Stall team's objective isn't to sweep with X pokemon, but to wall everything to dead and get some type of hazards on the field (usually Stealth Rocks) and of course prevent your opponent from sweeping with his winning condition or opening holes in your team. Therefore your team should contain pokes that have either a good defensive typing or a way to heal themselves because like I previously said the battles will be very long and often you will recur to PP stall and status conditions to win them.
Step 1: Alomomola
Alomomola @ Rocky Helmet / Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 104 HP / 252 Def / 152 SpD
Impish Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Scald
- Toxic
Alomomola IS the face of XY RU stall; with a good offensive typing, amazing HP and Defense stats, nice ability and decent movepool, Alomomola is a must have in a stall team; it walls most of the RU physical sweepers and while sometimes it relies too much on burn it will rarely let you down additionally it can take some special hits and heal herself with the Wish / Protect combo. As if that weren't enough, Alomomola can also pass her giant wishes to heal her allies and has a good synergy with common stall mons like Registeel and Drudiggon. Of course Alomomola has her flaws; relying too much on burns can be problematic and she is extremely vulnerable to status and strong special attacks but when you consider the pros and cons of Alomomola it will definitely be a great and necessary addition to stall teams.
Step 2: Special Walls
In a tier where strong special attackers like Moltres and Meloetta annihilate entire teams, sturdy special walls are required. Remember that each and every wall is unique; Aromatisse, Lickilicky and Audino offer cleric support which supports the rest of your team and can heal themselves while in the other hand things like Registeel, specially defensive Rhyperior and Miltank offer hazard support and can deal with specific threats (will talk more about this in the future) which is often required in a stall team. In conclusion choosing your dedicated special wall can be a tough task and hence to the variety of special threats in the tier you will usually need at least two of this guys.
Step 3: Physical Walls
Even with Alomomola's amazing walling capabilities you will need at least another physical wall that covers her weaknesses and like the special ones, each and every one of them is different; Gligar and Golbat offer Defog support and Weezing completely walls top tier threats like the musketeers, Hitmonlee and Doublade and can set up Toxis Spikes to help your team, Granbull is an interesting option that has Intimidate and Heal Bell to support his teammates and things like Durddigon and Rhyperior can phase and set up hazards for their team.
Step 4: Cleric
Any stall team requires a cleric to succeed; a cleric is a pokemon that can heal status conditions (burn, para, toxic, etc) and sometimes HP via Wish. Like most RU veterans know, Aromatisse is the most popular choice thanks to her immunity to Taunt and useful typing but that doesn't mean she is the only choice; Lickilicky is an underrated cleric that has superior bulk and a phazing move in the form of Dragon Tail, Audino doesn't have any outstanding traits but her useful ability might save you some games and she gets the always useful Knock Off. In conclusion Aromatisse isn't the only cleric in the tier and sometimes using something less popular like Miltank or Lickilicky might be the way to go.
Step 5: Fire resist A.K.A Moltres / Delphox counter
Moltres and Delphox are two pokemon that cause stall a lot of trouble thanks to their high special attack, great offensive movepool and good STAB coverage; I would normally recommend AV Slowking because it also acts as a great special wall but Drudi and Regirock are also viable options although the lack of recovery hurts especially if you're using AV Drudi. Countering this two is tricky but if you get SR as soon as possible and have your fire resist somewhat healthy you should be in a good shape.
Step 6: Psychic resist/ inmunity A.K.A Meloetta /Reuniclus / Sigilyph / CM Cresselia counter
Without Zoroark and Yanmega in the tier, RU plethora of psychic types can finally flourish and all of them can cause trouble to stall teams; Magic Guard makes Reuni and Sigi immune to status and with rising threats like SubCM Meloetta and Cresselia stall needs a pokemon to deal with them. A regular phazer like Slowking could work but if you rely on phazing moves to deal with them and your opponent realizes this they will sack every pokemon in order to set up and sweep. Drapion is by far my favorite because he has many tools to screw up this type of pokes; Taunt cuts their set up, Knock off gets rid of their precious Leftovers, can Pursuit trap them and Whilrwind phases them temporarily. Another good option is Spritomb who has Curse to deal with them if they are the last poke (note that curse does not work if you have Magic Guard) and resist their common moves with the exception of Moon Blast on Cresselia. Meloetta resist their common moves, has Knock off to cripple them and Perish Song to force them out or kill them and finally Escavalier might look like an odd choice for stall teams but with Assault Vest it can become a quite bulky pokemon and he has a powerful STAB move in the form of Megahorn to deal with them and has Knock Off to cripple whatever switches out.
Step 7: Normal resist A.K.A
Exploud is by far the most threatening poke for RU stall; it has no immunities thanks to Scrappy and a Choice Specs Boomburst will 2HKO anything that doesn't resist the hit (as a matter of fact, AV Slowking gets 2HKOed) so naturally a pokemon with Rock or Steel type is required. Registeel and Rhyperior are the most popular choices thanks to their nice bulk and ability to set up stealth rocks. Cobalion is an odd choice since he also gets 2HKOed by Specs Boomburst but he is the only counter that offensively checks Exploud thanks to Close Combat and he can also Volt Switch, Taunt and even get Rocks for your team. But even this pokes are shanky counters a good prediction from the Exploud will cost you one of this guys; Registeel and Cobalion hate Focus Blast and Fire Blast and Rhyperior gets raped by Surf and they all lack reliable recovery. I decided to look for more counters and I got shitty things like Soundproof Exploud and Bastidon just to deal with this monster. After looking for quite some time I found that Cradily is the best Exploud counter; Normal resistance, only weak to Focus Blast and reliable recovery make Cradily the best Exploud counter and can sorta take Delphox but tbh I would stick with the first free guys and put something like AV Slowking + Registeel to deal with Exploud.
Step 8: Fighting immunity/ resist
With the great number of viable fighting types in RU ranging from Gurdurr to Virizion, having a designated fighting counter is a must unless you want to get swept by a random SD Gallade. The most popular ones are Gligar, Doublade and Aromatisse but, although they counter most fighting types, they don't counter each and every one of them; CM Cobalion easily deals with Gligar, Doublade and Aromatisse and the Magnet Rise one trolls Gligar, Gurdurr sets up on Gligar and he can't be statused thanks to Guts and even SD Virizion causes huge problems to Gligar and Aromatisse if they are at low health. In other words, opting for less popular choices can be the key here; Golbat is my favorite because he offers Defog support to your team alongside Infiltrator to screw Sub mons and Weezing offers burn and Toxic Spikes support alongside an amazing Ground resistance. In contrast to the other resistances this one has multiple viable options so it shouldn't be a problem but nevertheless always have one of these guys.
How to deal with stall:
Every now and then, people ask me how to deal with full stall teams and my answer is always the same; patience is the key! Like I said, matches are long and sometimes even boring but insulting your oppknent and whinning about it won't help (as a matter of fact it will only boost your opponent's confidence) in a match when I deal with a stall team I do the following steps:
Notice their weakness:
No stall team is perfect and all of them have a specific weakness; when you discover it set a win condition and force the pokemon that blocks it to take damage so you can eventually overwhelm it and open a hole that allows you to do damage/ sweep easier. Of course this is easy in theory but in practice it requires a lot of technique and patience.
Stauts them:
Toxic and Burn annoy stall teams a lot forcing them to go to their clerics and heal their teamates but what a lot of people forget is that Aromatjerapy and heal bell only have 8 pp which can easily be stalled out setting a timer in your opponent's team.
Knock off their items:
A lot of RU walls like Douboade, Gligar and Golbat rely too much in their precious evilolite making them a lot less bulkier without it and therefore easier to KO. Pokemon like Alomomola ams aromatisee will also miss their precious leftovers too making knock off a fantastic move against full stall teams.
Pokemon that are good against stall teams:
Drapion
Drapion is one of the bret answers to stall teams in this tier thanks to his amazing typing, acces to Taunt and Knock off and utility moves like Toxic Spikess and Whirlwind; Drapion can also sweep with the combination of SD and Taunt overall Drapion can stallbreak a lot of unprapared stall teams alone.
Exploud
Unless they have the rare Cradily, exploud will usually get at least one kill against stall teams. Boobmburdt is such an easy move to spsm with virtuslly no drawbacks and acess to Fire bladt and surf to take care of his supposed counters as well as Scrappy as an ability make exploud the bedt wallbreaker in the entire tier.
Moltres
At first glance, Moltres offensive LO set looks like an amazing answer against stall teams but the popularity of AV Slowking makes any offensive set useless; the defensive Subroost set is what really make Moltres an amazing fighter against full stall been able to outslall opposing threats thanks tp Pressure and toxic and has a good defensive typing to take common attacks like aromatisse's moonblast.
I hoped you enjoyed this huge post and be sure to give me constructive criticism :)
phantom
Banned deucer.
I think it's inaccurate to say Alomomola is the face of RU stall... really inaccurate. In fact, most stall teams I see tend to use Aromatisse as the given Wish passer--very few stall teams tend to favor Alomomola on stall. This is all in part because of the fact that using Aromatisse alongside Slowking doesn't create redundancies in your build in the same way that using Slowking + Alomomola does. Slowking is very common on stall nowadays because it counters both Delphox and Moltres, which are very difficult to simultaneously beat unless your opponent is dense or you resort to using niche Pokemon. But yeah, bottom line, Alomomola has been passed up a lot on stall nowadays due to the fact that you can't use it alongside Slowking without creating a team really weak to X threat, not to mention that it just exacerbates one of the real problems RU stall teams have, and that's their innate passivity, not so much the "abundance of wallbreakers". When I usually see Alomomola on stall, it's paired with Aromatisse to function as a double Wish core, very rarely is it the sole Wish passer.
edit: there are exceptions where slowking + mola can work, but in general, it isn't the most optimal build
edit: there are exceptions where slowking + mola can work, but in general, it isn't the most optimal build
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How Slowking+ Alomomola creates redundancies? The only thing they have in common is Water type (and reggenerator I guess) not only Alomomola is the best physical wall in the tier but it can also heal his own team thanks to Wish and it rarely gets overhwlemed thanks to reggenerator while in the other hand, Aromatisse can get easily pressured by any competent player especially if you give Wish support + Aromatherapy support to a single pokemon. If you use Slowmola core you have two pokes weak to Electric and Grass which isn't a bid deal considering that the most popular grass type (Amoonguss) also screws Slowtisse core hard.
To expand on dealing with stall, from my experience the best way to get the upper hand against a stall team is to offer them as little breathing room as possible, and i personally find that the people who whine about stall are the exact people who struggle to do this effectively. Stall teams basically rely on residual damage and setting up their own win condition to win games, so playing intelligently to stop or punish them for doing so can go a long way. Whether this is accomplished by using multiple Pokemon with similar checks (like birdspam in OU/dragspam), incredibly good wallbreakers such as Exploud, multiple layers of entry hazards, smart double switching, or best of all, a combination of the four (it should be noted that double switching repeatedly to pressure stall is pretty easy compared to doubling vs other playstyles, at least imo. The *mostly* conservative way stall usually plays makes this child's play, and the passive nature of the team's Pokemon means they can punish you comparatively less for mispredicting). This comes from my experience using and facing stall in all tiers, not just RU.
The Pokemon you'll want to focus on pressuring the most imo are the cleric(s) of the team. Wish and Heal Bell are both very important moves for stall teams to have, and pressuring the Pokemon that are capable of doing so is often the path to winning the match. Residual damage on Pokemon that lack reliable recovery such as Registeel, Doublade, and Weezing will really start to pile up when the team's wishpasser can't safely pull one off, and Toxic and Burn can be quite crippling for all kinds of defensive Pokemon whether they have recovery or not. Even if you can't stop the cleric completely, you can punish them for doing their job (for example: using Aromatisse's wish as an opportunity to get a +2 Doublade or Fletchinder in the opponent's face). Aromatisse is especially vulnerable to this because of its lack of Regenerator as i've mentioned before.
Other good Pokemon to pressure are the opponent's hazard setters, and if you use Spikes, their Rapid Spin/Defog user.
If you're fighting stall with stall, this is of course much harder, but stall has its own ways of wearing down other stall teams, such as Knock Off, residual damage, and the occasional bulky set up sweeper as a wincon.
The Pokemon you'll want to focus on pressuring the most imo are the cleric(s) of the team. Wish and Heal Bell are both very important moves for stall teams to have, and pressuring the Pokemon that are capable of doing so is often the path to winning the match. Residual damage on Pokemon that lack reliable recovery such as Registeel, Doublade, and Weezing will really start to pile up when the team's wishpasser can't safely pull one off, and Toxic and Burn can be quite crippling for all kinds of defensive Pokemon whether they have recovery or not. Even if you can't stop the cleric completely, you can punish them for doing their job (for example: using Aromatisse's wish as an opportunity to get a +2 Doublade or Fletchinder in the opponent's face). Aromatisse is especially vulnerable to this because of its lack of Regenerator as i've mentioned before.
Other good Pokemon to pressure are the opponent's hazard setters, and if you use Spikes, their Rapid Spin/Defog user.
If you're fighting stall with stall, this is of course much harder, but stall has its own ways of wearing down other stall teams, such as Knock Off, residual damage, and the occasional bulky set up sweeper as a wincon.
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phantom
Banned deucer.
You kinda answered your own question there, buddy. I think it's nice that you pointed out that both of these duos are weak to Amoonguss, but that's not very relevant nor does it prove anything. I for one don't really see very many stall teams in any tier that stacks bulky Water-types, and it's for that very reason. It weakens your foundation because you're forced to build in a way that prioritizes compensating for their weaknesses as opposed to trying to check what you can. For instance, you try to have two Pokemon that cover those weak points youre going to miss out on being able to deal with a handful of other threatening Pokemon. Or you put the burden on checking all of these threats on one Pokemon and you're put under a lot of pressure preserving that one Pokemon. Redundancies also involve the fact that they check very similar Pokemon, such as mixed Emboar, Delphox, etc. I've literally only seen one team that used both Slowking and Alomomola, and that team's achilles' heel is Spikes offense due to how they were forced to build in order to accommodate for those two. To me, being weak to Spikes offense isn't the best thing in the world with Accelgor and Omastar everywhere, not to mention the rising popularity of another Spikes lead in Qwilfish doesn't make the scenario much better. Now with the tangential point addressed, let's go back to the main idea: Alomomola isn't the face of stall and is most certainly not required on these teams. I already mention that one of the main reasons for that is that stall teams would rather use Slowking so they can better prepare for the likes of Delphox and Moltres, both of which Slowking can deal with rather well and Alomomola can only check. Second, while Alomomola is indeed harder to wear down, it really just compounds the real problem with stall teams these days and that's just how passive they are. Second, Aromatisse brings so much to the table with just one teamslot. You got a Wish passer, a cleric, a Pokemon that can even perform its support roles in the face of Taunt users and even check a significant portion of the metagame due to its great typing and all-around bulk. As I said before, most of the time when I see Alomomola on stall, it's paired with Aromatisse as a double Wish combo that helps deal with opposing stall at the cost of being weak to the two premier offensive Fire-types in RU. To me, I find a number of things with your stall assertion incorrect, but the one that stood out to me is that Alomomola is the face of stall, which just isn't the case. If any Pokemon is going to be called that, it's Aromatisse by far. Alomomola is still a great Pokemon, but with the rise of the aforementioned threats as well as an already competent Wish passer, stall teams these days are really looking towards other Pokemon to step up and keep these powerhouses in line, and in a lot of those team, Alomomola just isn't included in them. To each his own I guess, but it can't be the face of stall when a good majority of successful stall teams don't include it in their builds. lol
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Just wanted to point out another Pokemon that is standout with the banning of Yanmega:
Gurdurr @ Eviolite
Ability: Guts
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Mach Punch
- Bulk Up
This thing can run through teams. At +1 and Burn'd it OHKO's Cofag always, or if Cofag doesn't Burn you it guaranteed OHKO's at +2. The lack of reliable Flying users in the tier means it really only has to fear Psychic, which can't even switch in reliably. Pair it up with a Pursuit user (I'm using Skuntank) and it becomes almost impossible to take down. Plus it's natural bulk allows it to avoid 2HKOs often and with Drain Punch it turns those into 3/4HKOs
Gurdurr @ Eviolite
Ability: Guts
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Mach Punch
- Bulk Up
This thing can run through teams. At +1 and Burn'd it OHKO's Cofag always, or if Cofag doesn't Burn you it guaranteed OHKO's at +2. The lack of reliable Flying users in the tier means it really only has to fear Psychic, which can't even switch in reliably. Pair it up with a Pursuit user (I'm using Skuntank) and it becomes almost impossible to take down. Plus it's natural bulk allows it to avoid 2HKOs often and with Drain Punch it turns those into 3/4HKOs
- Status