Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V3) (Rank changes are over until ORAS)

[Srn]

Weavile does indeed beat most ferrothorn with LO low kick, same goes for tran and zone (altho the former is scarfed a lot and 80% of the latter are scarfed lol)
The problems I see with it personally is its not strong enough to carry its own weight. Its fast as all shit but it rly doesn't stand a chance against almost any water not named ninja and fails to to do much to most fighting and fairy types too, bar terrak. The base power of its moves are p. low bar knock off pre-"knocking off." I've just never been threatened too much by it zzz
However, its ice shard is solid and its STABs are two of the best offensive types in general. I could easily see it B+, but dude take baby steps first. Its in B-, a nomination all the way up to A is a little sudden.
And if you're gonna talk so much trash about it, the least you could do is provide us some decent replays for us shitty non-tour players to witness its "anti-meta" qualities.

 

[alexwolf]

Stop being disrespectful to each other or else i am going to start handling infractions. If you want to discuss about Weavile, do it politely, and this goes to everyone involved in this discussion.

 

[Arcanine is Regal]

yeah jeez take it easy guys, weavile obviously deserves to be moved up, I would put it on par with mega alakazam in the sense that it needs priority users dead and is super fast and 2hkos just about everything. So yeah Weavile for B+ rank.

Also Sash SD weavile is a great lead/pokemon to throw out anytime in the game, if you force a switch with weavile and SD on the switch you are in a good position.

 

[procrastinat]

Heatran runs scarf about 7% of the time (as of june statistics, can't seem to get anything later) and Weavile actually outspeeds ScarfZone.
But still, A rank is too large of a leap, and there are things that can do part of Weavile's job better, Mamo with priority, Bisharp with Darkspam and pursuit, but Weavile compresses these roles into one pokemon, very valuable if you need them both.

I'd support Weavile to rise to B, If Mega-Zam moves up (Which I also support) to A-, I'd think about B+, but I usually don't like a pokemon, moving up more than 1 rank in a short period of time unless there is a damn good reason for it (Like Aloma).

 

[Berry Juice]

Heatran runs scarf about 7% of the time (as of june statistics, can't seem to get anything later) and Weavile actually outspeeds ScarfZone.

Here are the usage stats for all months. In July, only 6.158% of all Heatran ran a Scarf, and in August, 9.7% of them held a Scarf. It's kinda rare(not saying it's bad).

 

[Jukain]

see my problem with weavile is that it actually has A LOT of common checks. fairies (azu/clef), keld, gyara, gren (not rly a switch-in tho), xzard, mega heracross...most teams have decent answers to it even without specifically planning for it, unlike say megazam which is hard for a lot of teams to check/counter. b could be fair but the prominence of these checks makes me believe it shouldn't go higher. provides no defensive synergy and gets no switch-in opportunities is another problem.

 

[Sweepage]

This viability ranking thread is the most ridiculous thing i've ever seen
Hold up though, not to sound mean
But who the fuck is this random nigga on my screen
Oh wait, that's bluewind.. maybe i should continue reading a bit
''I nominate weavile to A'' so I stopped reading that shit
Took a closer look.. Bluwing? Smogon.... ''Who is this nigga?''
''I wikipedia'd, Ask Jeevez, Googled this nigga''
PO, Showdown, IRC ''tryna find somebody that knew somebody that knew this nigga''
I looked up in the sky, and even buried underground
Continued my search and looked around
Same shit though: No Results Found.

I think that weavile is too frail, and has too many checks to be considered an A Rank threat. It's a little bit annoying but it really can't hang with the top threats of XY OU and it surely has many things that can kill it on every kind of team, offense, stall, and balanced. It's a shit pokemon use tyranitar or bisharp. alexwolf, there on topic now don't delete the post.

 

[Always!]

Weavile is good, but B is probably the ideal ranking. Strong Attack, but low BP Moves barring Knock Off and Icicle Crash are somewhat problematic. However, it's Stabs themselves are absolutely amazing, and carrying a priority that shits on the most top tier threats is no joke. In fact, being able to beat even Scarf-Landorus-T (which unless you're running something like Rocky helmet ferro, it doesn't get worn down enough to take out with other pokemon half the time) is honestly something really good that partners with most megas, and being able to clear the area for a sweep or wallbreaking is pretty amazing. Being able to function as an emergency check to stuff like Mega Pinsir and RP Landorus-I (super underrated right now, a devastating cleaner) is also very useful. A is a bit much, B is fine.

Oh, Also, it's frail as fuck. Like, even if I knew my opponent was going to Psyshock with a Latios, I still wouldn't switch this thing in.

 

[Gloating]

Well looks like I need to join a tourney ASAP to not be considered a bad player by TRC lol but yeah Karxrida's post nailed it. Weavile can be used in OU but there are simply overall better stuff to use which is why it's not A. First of all it hates SR and Pursuiting stuff with it not is not very reliable as something like Tyranitar because of Weavile shitty defenses. Knock Off is nice but a ton of things get it as well. I disagree with B+ too because it's not as good as the B+ mons or even B mons. It's just hard to switch in and is easily checked/walled. B- is fine for it imo.

 

[trc]

Nope never said that and Pursuit is barely part of it when you check the defensive answers to 3 of the best Pokemon in the tier. You don't have to be a tour player, just be informed, which you don't seem to be evidently given your impressive logic of "Knock Off is nice but a ton of things get it as well".

 

[Celticpride]

I can get on board with Weavile to B or even B+. It may very well be A worthy, but the process should be gradual. Not many things move up or down more than one or two ranks in an update. STAB Knock Off is a good utility tool, Ice Shard is one of the better priorities out there, Ice Punch packs a punch (pun intended) and Low Kick and Fake Out are valuable tools on different sets. My biggest issue with it is that it wants to run LO because it's attack isn't what it used to be, and it also wants Focus Sash because it is frail. LO Ice Shard can OHKO Thundy after Rocks, which is a really interesting niche in this meta, considering Thundurus is the biggest headache to offense out there.

 

[MilkyWay]

Weavile should probably just be moved up to B. What it has over Bisharp and Mamoswine is that it covers two roles (Pursuit and Ice Shard) in one pokemon and is incredibly fast. It's speed allows it to pursuit trap the likes of the Lati@s and Gengar without resorting to using a scarf or winning the 50/50 (in bisharps case if the lati@s carry hp fighting). Despite being incredibly frail it can actually switch into Shadow Ball and Psyshock if absolutely necessary, although Bisharp and Tyranitar can too. Weavile's offensive typing is a god send in this metagame, Ice Shard destroys genies, Mega Pinsir, ScarfChomp, ScarfLando, and 4x weak pokemon in general, Ice Punch and Knock Off let it beat common physical walls such as Hippowdown, Gliscor, DefLando, Cresslia, Mew and Slowbro. Being a fast STAB user of Knock Off is also great. Finally, the recent metagame shifts have been kind to it. With Aegislash out of the picture, Physic types have risen in prominence. Mew, Slowbro, Cresselia, Jirachi, Celebi, Victini, Starmie, Lati@s, etc. have all risen in usage and become more viable, all of which Weavile eats for breakfast. The Mega Mawile ban was just the icing on the cake for Weavile as it was complete setup fodder for it and now more Psychic types are free. All in all Weavile is better than ever and deserves to go to B.

 

[Bluwing]

Weavile should probably just be moved up to B. What it has over Bisharp and Mamoswine is that it covers two roles (Pursuit and Ice Shard) in one pokemon and is incredibly fast. It's speed allows it to pursuit trap the likes of the Lati@s and Gengar without resorting to using a scarf or winning the 50/50 (in bisharps case if the lati@s carry hp fighting). Despite being incredibly frail it can actually switch into Shadow Ball and Psyshock if absolutely necessary, although Bisharp and Tyranitar can too. Weavile's offensive typing is a god send in this metagame, Ice Shard destroys genies, Mega Pinsir, ScarfChomp, ScarfLando, and 4x weak pokemon in general, Ice Punch and Knock Off let it beat common physical walls such as Hippowdown, Gliscor, DefLando, Cresslia, Mew and Slowbro. Being a fast STAB user of Knock Off is also great. Finally, the recent metagame shifts have been kind to it. With Aegislash out of the picture, Physic types have risen in prominence. Mew, Slowbro, Cresselia, Jirachi, Celebi, Victini, Starmie, Lati@s, etc. have all risen in usage and become more viable, all of which Weavile eats for breakfast. The Mega Mawile ban was just the icing on the cake for Weavile as it was complete setup fodder for it and now more Psychic types are free. All in all Weavile is better than ever and deserves to go to B.

i agree with everything said in this post here except the ranking, yes i can agree in A rank beeing to high, but an A- should be possible, but for now at least B+. it's got it's niches over other dark types in ou, as i and many others have stated.

 

[Karxrida]

Weavile should probably just be moved up to B. What it has over Bisharp and Mamoswine is that it covers two roles (Pursuit and Ice Shard) in one pokemon and is incredibly fast. It's speed allows it to pursuit trap the likes of the Lati@s and Gengar without resorting to using a scarf or winning the 50/50 (in bisharps case if the lati@s carry hp fighting). Despite being incredibly frail it can actually switch into Shadow Ball and Psyshock if absolutely necessary, although Bisharp and Tyranitar can too. Weavile's offensive typing is a god send in this metagame, Ice Shard destroys genies, Mega Pinsir, ScarfChomp, ScarfLando, and 4x weak pokemon in general, Ice Punch and Knock Off let it beat common physical walls such as Hippowdown, Gliscor, DefLando, Cresslia, Mew and Slowbro. Being a fast STAB user of Knock Off is also great. Finally, the recent metagame shifts have been kind to it. With Aegislash out of the picture, Physic types have risen in prominence. Mew, Slowbro, Cresselia, Jirachi, Celebi, Victini, Starmie, Lati@s, etc. have all risen in usage and become more viable, all of which Weavile eats for breakfast. The Mega Mawile ban was just the icing on the cake for Weavile as it was complete setup fodder for it and now more Psychic types are free. All in all Weavile is better than ever and deserves to go to B.

My only complaint is that Weavile is not a good Pursuit trapper since it can actually lose if the things it wants to trap decide to stay in and it can't switch into them like ever. It can't Pursuit trap Gengar since a lot run Sub (then again nothing can really Pursuit trap it, but w/e) and it'll likely be behind one by the time you come in to deal with it. Otherwise the meta has been more kind to it recently and I can see it being B.

On a slightly unrelated note, I find it humorous how easily this thread gets derailed.

 

[pwnémon]

Nominating Cresselia to be moved from C+>B- because Cresselia checks a ton of shit that can be deadly to stall such an Landorus, Mixed Thundurus 76 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Cresselia: 172-203 (38.7 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (not sure if these are standard ev's), Keldeo, Greninja and Latios (252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 152+ SpD Cresselia: 177-211 (39.8 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery) among others. However it does require status healing support (although this is common on the stall teams Cress is used on), is pursuit weak and its main healing is neutered by common sand teams.

 

[Rhaegar]

Why first look into moving Weavile up from B- when Hawlucha is sitting there with it? SubSitrus is beastly. I'd say Lucha is quite significantly more threatening (and unique) than Weavile. Also Weavile to B doesn't sound bad but Weavile to the same rank as Raikou, Kingdra, and Jirachi does. Those three kinda don't fit with the rest in that rank anyway so I think they should be moved up a step.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

I agree with moving Weavile to B+ (lol A is too high.). It's the fastest pursuit user in the tier, the fastest Knock Off abuser with STAB on it, and has few counters since not many high-ranked threats would enjoy losing their item. Unlike ScarfTar, it won't get locked into Pursuit and possibly get set up on. It also pairs very well with Specs Keldeo since the pony really needs Lati@s, Starshit and Celebi gone. Also, unlike Mamoswine, Weavile can OHKO Dragonite through Multiscale without risking a speed tie. Weavile is a good cleaner once its counters are weakened.

alexwolf EDIT: We are not splitting S rank.

 

[RichieTheGarchomp]

If anything Breloom has got even better with the absence of Aegislash and Mega Mawile. Sash Loom is a pain to deal with for HO. Sometimes I use Icicle Spear Jolly Mamoswine or Mega Heracross on my HO teams just to not get wrecked by it. Keep Breloom in A. It can also run SD with LO and Toxic Orb/Leech Seed sets. All of it's sets are pretty effective.

Yes: I do need some ice for that burn. actually, Ice will KO me so please don't.
Anyways, I'm just looking at the chat in OU and I'm seeing this sudden increase in chat for Weavile. It supposedly KOs Mew with Knock Off and gives the Genies a run for their money. Calcs:
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 393-463 (97.2 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 218-257 (72.9 - 85.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 660-780 (206.8 - 244.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 348-421 (109 - 131.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Correct me if I'm wrong. P.S, I used the Scarfed Lando set.
Sadly this mofo is frail af. Even then I think this is a B+ mon.

DoABarrelRoll: Thundurus is not the only S+ rank? add in Azu.

 

[Albacore]

The biggest problem with Weavile is that it suffers a lot of competition for Greninja, who is a lot harder to switch into for both offensive an defensive teams. Besides, a lot of the stuff that switches into Greninja (Azu, Clef, Ferro) also switches into Weavile, and unlike it, Greninja can get past a lot of these swicthins (and no, Weavile can't get past Ferro at all lol, Low Kick does around 50% which easily lets it live after 2 turns of Leftovers recovery, and Knock Off followed by Low Kick cannot 2HKO it). Weavile is also stopped by a few common Pokemon on offense such as Keldeo. It's kinda hard to justify using it over Greninja overall, and even though one hits from the physical side and the other from the special side, that doesn't really matter since they basically do the same thing, it's just that Greninja usually does it better. Weavile's moves just don't pack that much power when compared to Greninja. I've actually tried the sash SD set to see if it was actually good, but it was really underwhelming due to how many things freely swicth into Weavile, how it isn't even that powerful at +1, and the 4MSS this set suffers from.

However, Weavile has 3 things that set it apart from Greninja. The first one is that it's just simply faster. Not only is it able to outspeed Greninja, which is really crucial, but it also outspeeds stuff like Scarf Heatran. The second one is priority. Ice Shard enables Weavile to revenge kill fast scarfers which are a big problem for Greninja. This is especially convenient given that arguably the 2 most relevant scarfers, Lando-T and Garchomp, are 4x weak to Ice (though Lando-T actually has a chance to live Ice Shard after facotring in Intimidate, and Chomp has a very small chance to survive too). And finally, Weavile has Pursuit. Weavile has the fastest STAB Pursuit in the game, which is a pretty solid niche, and lets it do some pretty neat stuff like switch in on Lati Psyshock or Greninja ESensory and remove them completely. Unfortunately, Pursuit is kinda hard to fit. Knock Off and Low Kick are pretty much mandatory, so you get to chosse between priority and a semi-powerful Ice STAB

Weavile is nowhere near A, but I think it may be worth putting it in B. It shouldn't really go any higher than B though IMO, it's still to easy to switch into for something this offensive.

 

[pwnémon]

Does anyone else have some opinions on Cress rising

Nominating Cresselia to be moved from C+>B- because Cresselia checks a ton of shit that can be deadly to stall such an Landorus, Mixed Thundurus 76 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Cresselia: 172-203 (38.7 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (not sure if these are standard ev's), Keldeo, Greninja and Latios (252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 152+ SpD Cresselia: 177-211 (39.8 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery) among others. However it does require status healing support (although this is common on the stall teams Cress is used on), is pursuit weak and its main healing is neutered by common sand teams.

 

[pj]

My Suggestion
Clefable to S -Clefable can be problem in many ways it can some times Set stealth rock or act as wish passer or even sweep with Calm Mind or stall with Cosmic Power
Magnezone to -A Magnezone is great pokemon as it has become famous with Drag Mag Core and also mega pinsir + Magnezone + Landerous Therein offense Core. it can also trap Steel Pokémon because of its ability.
Talonflame to A I think Talonflame is being Overrated just because of its ability and Stab Moves It has Bad Stats But even though it has nice Ability and Stab Moves it does not deserves A+
Scolipede to -B Since it is part of Baton pass users after its Ban probably less people will be using it even without Baton pass team it can serve great as Life Orb attacker And before Getting it can Baton pass the speed to any other pokemon it can be usefull but it does not deserves B
Volcarona to +C Volcarona is very Good bulky Specail attacker it can abuse its Bulk with its move Quiver Dance it can easily Sweep it can sometimes use Rain Team
Kyurem-Black to +B Kyurem black is not Good as it has many weakness and it does have Decent Speed with is 95 and it is good but due to so many weakness it cant be at A-
Alakazam to -A Alakazam mega is very good it is having 175 special attack with is so much enough to kill a pokemon and speed of 150 stats it can easily Sweep with its Power but unfortunately it has very weak Physical defence still it is very fast it can kill before you even move


Edit Sorry I forgot

 

[Klobb]

My Suggestion
Clefable to S
Magnezone to -A
Talonflame to A
Scolipede to -B
Volcarona to +C
Kyurem-B to +B
Alakazam to -A
Greninja to -A
Weavile to A
Conkeldurr to B

Good for you but could you back these up with some reasoning please?

 

[RichieTheGarchomp]

Cresselia is weak to Knock Off, which sucks. Other than that, it's one of the bulkiest mons in OU. I really don't have much info on it sadly.

Why is Weavile thought as A rank? The only good stats in it are Speed and attack, and it dies OT Priority. Scizor basically counters it, along with Mach Punch Breloom possibly checking it. It is outclassed by some mons, most notably Greninja, but I don't think it's bad at all. It does NOT deserve a rank higher than B+
Also TerrorDave Aerodactyl and Zam are great but lack good defenses. Scizor checks Aerodactyl (unless Fire Fang) and checks/counters Zam. Weavile also checks Aerodactyl and Zam, same with Ferrothorn and etc.

 

[AM]

My Suggestion
Clefable to S -Clefable can be problem in many ways it can some times Set stealth rock or act as wish passer or even sweep with Calm Mind or stall with Cosmic Power Agreed but those who have disagreed in the past do bring up some solid points on why it should stay A+ so maybe another time.
Magnezone to -A Magnezone is great pokemon as it has become famous with Drag Mag Core and also mega pinsir + Magnezone + Landerous Therein offense Core. it can also trap Steel Pokémon because of its ability. Agreeing cause Magnezone is fitting into the tier real nicely right now with just that core alone. Scarf I think is one of its better set as it allows to pivot out of/check some more stuff on a consistent basis, providing momentum.
Talonflame to A I think Talonflame is being Overrated just because of its ability and Stab Moves It has Bad Stats But even though it has nice Ability and Stab Moves it does not deserves A+ Disagreed. The rise of a lot of things like Rhyperior and naturally checks to bird spam are partially to do with Talonflame as well. Talonflame is very viable especially in the meta where people are going more offensive. It's overrated in the sense of how people state it's overpowered but not to the point where it's less viable.
Scolipede to -B Since it is part of Baton pass users after its Ban probably less people will be using it even without Baton pass team it can serve great as Life Orb attacker And before Getting it can Baton pass the speed to any other pokemon it can be usefull but it does not deserves B I think the relevancy of it's LO set isn't as effective as it was during the Deo days, but passing boosts can be very dangerous and when played correctly can allow Scolipede + Partner to floor teams. Not really for a drop but considering people are using other stuff like Smeargle to pass anyways I'm not too concerned if it drops either.
Volcarona to +C Volcarona is very Good bulky Specail attacker it can abuse its Bulk with its move Quiver Dance it can easily Sweep it can sometimes use Rain Team I was for this staying C, but C+ is kind of high. Bird spam is more relevant now a days, too many threats like AV Azu that kind of just beats it flat out, that rocks weakness as always. C is fine cause when Volcarona is able to get it going through boosts it hits pretty hard and can be annoying.
Kyurem-Black to +B Kyurem black is not Good as it has many weakness and it does have Decent Speed with is 95 and it is good but due to so many weakness it cant be at A- Kyurem-B isn't B+ material what so ever. It's one of the more annoying wall breakers in the tier and is a threat that a lot of people are dangerously unprepared for. Outside of certain obvious checks to it like Clefable and M-Scizor, Kyurem-B can punch holes in a lot of stuff and has various options to do so such as Life Orb + Roost, SubKyurem-B, Scarf, etc.
Alakazam to -A Alakazam mega is very good it is having 175 special attack with is so much enough to kill a pokemon and speed of 150 stats it can easily Sweep with its Power but unfortunately it has very weak Physical defence still it is very fast it can kill before you even move Stated my opinion on this some posts back before the Weavile stuff. Don't really care where it gets placed at this point.


Edit Sorry I forgot

Replies in bold and italics.

 

[Albacore]

I'm kinda torn on Talonflame. On the one hand, a lot of stuff in this meta hampers its effectiveness : Sand (which eats it alive) is very common, Lando-T is on basically one team out of four, and water types are as dominant as ever, with Pokemon like Slowbro and Alomomola becoming more and more prominent. And the meta arguably isn't going more offensive, if anything it's settling toward some sort of bulky offense, which hurts Talon a lot. That being said, Talon did benefit from some meta changes, namely, the huge rise in Pinsir usage (though a lot of Pinsir teams carry Magnezone which really limits Talon's effectvieness especially if said Magnezone is scarfed), drop in Thundurus usage, rise of the mega wallbreakers, all of which Talon checks, and the fact that it is generally easier to remove hazadrs now that Starmie is usable and Latios/Latias is king. In fact, Talonflame seems more valuable for stall than offense atm. I'm leaning towards dropping it, but if someone provides good arguments as to why it should stay A+ I'll be fine with it staying there.

I don't really think Zone should go up simply based on the fact that it's a little matchup based : if there is nothing to trap is loses a lot of use. Furthermore, the only common steels it traps now are Ferro and MScizor (who can potentially outspeed it if it's scarfed or live an HP Fire if it's scarfed, and then U-Turn out or donk it with Superpower), since Skarm is kinda falling out of favor. Furthermore, a few obscure steels such as Jirachi, Bronzong and Doublade can actually beat it before it beats them or escape its clutches. However, it has such amazing synergy with so many top-tier threats (Pinsir, Lando-T, Azu) that the support it provides is particularly good at this point in the meta, so it may well be worth A-. I also have yet to try out the air balloon set, so my mind may well change after I do.

Speaking of Magnezone, I'd like to bring up Magneton again, I nominated it for a rank on the basis of a Scarf set outspeeding a few threats Scarf Magneton can't outpace. Nobody really discussed it so I thought I'd just remind people.