Other OU Teambuilding V2

Status
Not open for further replies.
APPROVED BY ALEXWOLF

This kind of thread has been already hosted by TRC, but since he decided to give up, I feel like that I could bring it back so here we go!

At this point everyone should know the rules of it, but I'll make sure that I'll repeat them.

Here you have to post a "standard" set of any usable pokèmon, this isn't the place of gimmick sets. You should also export your set from a simulator, I don't mind if its either PS or PO, but make sure that what you posted is clear. You have also to give to the set of the pokèmon you posted a role. I'll post the roles later in this post, and I'll probably add some in future if I forgot to do this now.

Also, feel free to discuss at the other people's set, but do that civility. I remember to everyone that this thread is also useful to get noticed for the Community Contributor badge, so I expect from this quality sets and quality discussions.

That being said, I will just begin to post the roles I'm looking for at the moment:

What to use:















What NOT to use:









As of now, they are few because I want to focus the discussion on these roles first, but be sure that I'll add other roles when I have enough material for these. I think that for now it's better to have a focused discussion, and not a confusing one. Have fun posting things everyone!
 
Hey Alexander, nice to see that we are trying to revive this thread. The only other thing I would add to this list would probably be a choice user. Choice items since gen whenever it was introduced, have always been an almost mandatory item to have on a team especially on the more offensive and balenced team. Just my opinion; and again kudos on taking innitiative.
 
As i said I'll add other roles when I have enough material for the ones I already posted. I prefer to focus the discuss on these roles for the moment, in order to avoid confusion and to make things better
 

Albacore

sludge bomb is better than sludge wave
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 96 SpD / 160 Spe
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Knock Off / Night Shade
- Roost

Role: Stalbreaker

What It Does: Arguably one of the best stallbreakers in the tier, Mew is great at harassing all kinds of Pokemon thanks to its great movepool of infuriating utility moves. Mew is basically guaranteed to beat any defensive Pokemon one-on-one as ling as they are not a fire type or a faster taunter. It's very simple to use: most of the time, it pits itself against a defensive Pokemon, Taunts it, and slowly wears it down with a combination of burn and Knock Off. Its good natural bulk means that it is almost impossible for something without any offensive investment to 2HKO it, and therefore, it can be a living nightmare for teams which don't have a hard-hitter. But what sets Mew apart from most other stallbreakers is how much work it puts in against offensive teams too. Few things on offense like getting burnt or knocked off, and furthermore, Mew's bulk lets it take hits from the likes of Mega-Medicham, Terrakion, and Thundurus. Its good natural speed enables it to outpace a few threats such as Bisharp, Mega-Gyarados, Mega Tyranitar, Mega-Heracross, and Excadrill outside of Sand. Mew can usually afford to sacrifice quite a bit of SpD investment for Speed, since it's naturally bulky enough to do what it needs to do on its own. Knock Off is the most useful offensive move for Mew in general thanks to the utility it provides, but Night Shade is a good option to get past Megas such as MVenu more easily, as well as other defensive Pokemon like Heatran and Gliscor.

Good Teammates: Mew should be paried up with something that can deal with the Zards and Talonflame, such as Landorus-T or Slowbro. Besides that, Mew needs little to no support to do its job.

What Counters It: Fire types do very well against Mew since they cannot be burnt. In particular, neither Charizard fears anything from it. Anything faster that is powerful enough to 2HKO even without their item can deal with Mew, particularly special attackers who don't care much about the effects of burn. Poison heal Pokemon, as well as Regenerator cores, can force Mew to wate its PP by switching round and regaining health back while they do so.

Any Additional Info: Mew is better used early on in the match, in order to heavily cripple Pokemon initially so that more offensive partners can break through the team much more easily. It can also carry Stealth Rocks or Defog, but if it does so, it loses out on a lot of its stallbreaking capabilities.
 
Last edited:


Houndoom-Mega @ Houndoominite
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot/sunny Day
- Hidden Power [Ice]/ Hidden Power [Grass]
- Dark pulse
- Fire Blast
Role: Special Sweeper

Mega Houndoom is most underrated Special sweeper in Pokémon so I wanted to make the fame of Houndoom-mega so I decided to So how good is it Nasty Plot helps me to increase the special attack X2 and make me more easy to sweep or else you can use Sunny day to halves the attack of water and increase the Move by 1.5X which will help you a lot and Hp Ice to check most of Ground types and even Dragon types. Fire Blast is Houndoom's primary STAB; its high Base Power with negligible drawbacks makes Mega Houndoom a very fierce attacker compared to Pokemon that rely on less powerful moves as their main attack. Dark Pulse is secondary STAB that offers reliable accuracy, a handy flinch chance, and reasonably good neutral coverage with Fire Blast.

Edit I am sorry if I am wrong
Follow the format albacore did, I guess I should've mentioned that on the op so sorry about that
 
  • Like
Reactions: pj
What to use.

Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Sleep Talk / Tailwind / Steel Wing

Role: Revenge Killer

What it does: Talonflame's access to a priority STAB Base 120 Power move makes it a strong centralising force in OU, and this set is the simplest way to take advantage of Talonflame's priority, by equipping it with a Choice Band. Talonflame has three main offensive sets, Swords Dance, Bulk Up, and this, the Choice Banded set, along with rarer utility sets which forgo a boosting move or item. Although Choice Band is the least flexible of the sets, it is also the safest to use, due to the sheer amount of power it provides, combined with the difficulty that other Talonflame sets can face in setting up against some teams.

Brave Bird is the first, and main move on the set, and is extremely spammable, as the only 4x Flying resist commonly seen in OU, Magnezone is weak to Fire. Flare Blitz is the secondary STAB, and ensures that no Steel types other than Heatran can wall Talonflame. U-Turn is mostly used in the early game, and makes Talonflame an effective pivot if Stealth Rocks are not up. The 4th move will not come into play in most games, but there are a few possibilities that may have a niche. Sleep Talk allows Talonflame to switch into a predicted Sleep move, primarily from a Grass type pokemon. However, the most common user of Sleep status in OU, Breloom, commonly carries Rock Tomb, which Breloom will also often use on a predicted switch, making this an extremely risky possibility. Talonflame has access to priority Tailwind, although it may often be better to Brave Bird instead, as if the opponent chooses not to KO Talonflame, then you've given them a free turn. Steel Wing is a very niche choice, but it hits the rare Diancie super-effectively, and importantly, also lacks recoil, making it a passable emergency option if Talonflame is low on health.

This is the standard and simplest EV spread, with maximum attack and speed, and the last 4 EVs in Defense, for an odd number of HP, allowing Talonflame to switch into Stealth Rocks twice. It's possible to move some EVs from Speed into HP to give Talonflame a bit more longevity, at the cost of leaving you outsped by faster opposing Talonflames. A Jolly nature loses a noticeable amount of power, and is more commonly seen on Swords Dance Talonflame, but can be used on Banded Talonflame for outspeeding opposing Adamant Talonflames and Flare Blitzing Thundurus.

Good teammates: Choice Banded Talonflame is best suited for offensive teams, and can fit into a number of playstyles. 'Flying spam' refers to a playstyle pairing two or more Flying type pokemon on a team, to break down their shared resistances. The most common partner in this core is Mega Pinsir, who is best used to finish off a team after Talonflame has weakened it. Talonflame is also effective on Sand teams, as the standard Tyranitar and Excadrill core is weak to Scizor, Breloom, Chesnaught and Conkeldurr, all of whom Talonflame beats. Hazard removal is mandatory when using Talonflame, and it has good type synergy with the two main Rapid Spin users in OU, Excadrill and Starmie, as well as Scizor, Latias and Latios. Latias is a particularly useful Defog user to pair with Talonflame, as Latias has access to Healing Wish, giving Talonflame another chance to wreak havoc on the opponent. Note that as Healing Wish's recovery activates before entry hazards, Talonflame can still receive the Healing Wish even if it would normally faint to Stealth Rocks. Greninja (with Hidden Power Grass for Rotom-W) can OHKO, or at worst 2HKO many of the checks to Talonflame seen in the section below, and is a good partner for Choice Banded Talonflame on hyper offense.

What counters it: Stealth Rocks are the number one check to Talonflame, and this set is one reason why they will be found on every team. Not many pokemon can check Choice Banded Talonflame, as they will always need to take two attacks in order to do so, so some teams will play around this set by sacrificing a pokemon to lock it into an attack. The main OU viable Pokemon that are commonly used to counter Talonflame include (note that this is often contingent on having a physically defensive EV spread) Rotom-W (and the rarer Rotom-H), Slowbro, Heatran, Tyranitar, Gliscor, Hippowdon, Landorus-T, Mandibuzz, Mega Ampharos and Mega Aerodactyl. Mega Manectric and Thundurus can check Talonflame, but cannot switch in directly. On Rain teams, Kabutops sometimes carries Aqua Jet which will outspeed Talonflame's Brave Bird under rain, while Excadrill can also check Talonflame is Sand is up, as it resists Brave Bird.

Any additional info: One additional reason to consider Talonflame for a team is that it can revenge kill a lot of the most popular Mega Pokemon. In the post Aegislash metagame, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Heracross and Mega Medicham have all had a big surge in popularity, and Choice Banded Talonflame can OHKO all three of these with Brave Bird.
 
Last edited:

Omastar @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Knock Off / Surf / Hidden Power Grass

Role: Special Sweeper, Wallbreaker

What It Does: This little ammonite is one of the best special sweepers in Rain offense teams. Between Rain, STAB and Choice Specs, its Hydro Pump deals huge damage even to Water resists (Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn often falls to two Hydro Pumps). The other moves are just sidekicks: Scald always hits its target and can leave a nasty burn on things like Azumarill or Ferrothorn. Ice Beam covers Water-resistant Dragon types such as Dragonite and Knock Off removes items (removing Chansey's Eviolite is never a bad thing). There are a few other options such as HP Grass for Gastrodon or Surf to OHKO Mega Garchomp without resorting to Hydro Pump's imperfect accuracy. With this investment, Omastar hits 361 SpA (541 with Specs) and 209 Speed (418 under Rain, faster than any Scarf with <278 Speed). Note that Omastar is at worst neutral to all forms of priority except Mach Punch and, coupled with its nice 125 base Defense, it can stomach a few hits (Azumarill's Aqua Jet only 3HKOes Omastar under Rain).

Good Teammates: You've seen the word "Rain" several times in the paragraph above. It means that, of course, Omastar absolutely needs Politoed's downpour to sweep. You can use a secondary Rain inducer such as Azelf in case Politoed is down. Other Rain attackers such as Kingdra and Keldeo can help wearing down its counters (and wear down theirs in return).

What Counters It: If it's raining, not a lot. AV Azumarill, Chansey, Mega Ampharos (beware of Ice Beam) and Ferrothorn are among the best Omastar roadblocks available in OU. Water immunities are rare in OU, but keep an eye on them (especially Gastrodon which can retaliate with Earth Power). Mega Alakazam (if it has already Mega Evolved and after a kill) can Trace Swift Swim and sweep the entire team. Any faster Scarf attacker (Garchomp, Landorus-T...) can easily revenge kill Omastar. Tyranitar and Mega Charizard Y remove rain with their abilities and force it out.
If it's not raining, any remotely fast special attacker can scare Omastar out, but don't underestimate its Choice Specs Hydro Pump (actually stronger than Keldeo's because of the nature).

Any Additional Info: Don't forget, keep spamming Hydro Pump.
 

Grim

The Ghost
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
What to use:


Diggersby @ Life Orb
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Quick Attack
- Return
- Swords Dance

Role: Physical Sweeper

What It Does: With a sky high attack stat due to Huge Power, and the possibility to boost it even higher with Swords Dance, Diggersby can easily rip through unprepared teams. Come in on something that can't touch you or that you force out, use Swords Dance as it either switches out or desperately tries to do some damage, and attack.

Earthquake and Return are the main moves, destroying anything that does not resist it, and even some that do at +2. Despite being the weakest move, Quick Attack is the move you are going to use the most because Diggersby's speed is far from high. Nevertheless, it still does good damage despite having only 40 BP because of Diggersby's insane attack stat and STAB.
Good Teammates: This set gets walled by Skarmory, so Magnezone is a nice teammate that can take care of it while possibly giving Diggersby a safe switch in with a slow Volt Switch. Anything with the move Pursuit is a great help to Diggersby, because Gengar is immune to both Normal and Ground. Other physical heavy hitters like Mega Pinsir benefit from Diggersby's ability to blow holes in the opponents team and vice versa.

What Counters It: Skarmory does not get 3HKO'd even at +2, and can phaze it out. Gengar is immune to both of its STAB's and can defeat it with Focus Blast or cripple it with Will O Wisp. Conkeldurr, Azumarill and other bulky pokemons with super effective priority can possibly check it but can't switch in.

Any Additional Info: Wild Charge is an option to destroy Skarmory, hit Gengar hard and water types super effectively, but it's not really worth replacing Earthquake, Return or Quick Attack for.
 
Last edited:

Manectric @ Manectite
Ability: Lightningrod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt/Thunder Wave/Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Flamethrower/Overheat

Role: Pivot

What it does: Mega Manectric can gain offensive momentum very easily due to its high speed and high special attack. It can scare out a lot of threats in the S tier of OU, such as Azumarill, Keldeo and Landorus (with Hidden Power Ice). Thunderbolt OHKO's common Keldeo sets, Thunderbolt has a 50% chance to OHKO 252 HP/0 Spdef Azumarill, and Hidden Power Ice OHKO's common Lando sets. Other threats in the tier are are also severely damaged or even OHKO'd such as 252 HP/ 252 SpDef Ferrothorn being OHKO'd by Overheat, Greninja (when water type) getting outsped and OHKO'd, Talonflame cannot 2HKO Mega Manectric after intimidate with Brave Bird, and Mega Pinsir is OHKO'd by Thunderbolt while always being able to survive a quick attack from a jolly pinsir, even at +6.

Being able to volt switch around an opponents team can put the opponent at a disadvantage early on. Mega Manectric's ability, intimidate, also helps to force physical attackers to switch. With Manectrics coverage with HP Ice and Flamethrower/Overheat, not many pokemon in the tier want to switch into it. Thunder Wave can also help to cripple fast pokemon that the rest of your team can't deal with, or catch something on a switch. With this EV spread, it reaches an impressive 369 Special Attack and 405 Speed, outspeeding almost the entire tier aside from the less common Mega Alakazam and Mega Aerodactyl in OU. It also outspeeds choice scarf TTar, being able to get an intimidate off and volt switch into something else.

Good teammates: Mega Manectric is best used on offensive teams, finding it's best used in VoltTurn teams or hyper offensive teams. Good partners to this poke would be scarfed Lando-T, with double intimidate and a strong VoltTurn core, it can cripple most physical attackers very quickly and can force another switch. Also anything that deals with sand rush Drill/TTar core well can be very helpful to Manectric. Defensive Politoed, can help to stop SR Drill, and can set up the rain for Thunder if used over Tbolt. Talonflame can also be useful to u-turn and help keep the offensive momentum going.

What Counters it: Mega Manectric's typing of pure Electric means that its only weakness is ground. That being said, Sand Rush Excadrill paired with Tyranitar can beat Manectric without the proper teammates. Choice Scarfed Lando-T also outspeeds and OHKO's Manectric (even after intimidate) with Earthquake. Bulky Latias can check Mega Manectric by easily taking HP Ice and not being heavily damaged by Tbolt and Overheat. Mamoswine can also take an Overheat with Thickfat while OHKO'ing with Earthquake.

Any Additional Info: Mega Manectric has one of the strongest and fastest volt switches in the game, giving it a huge advantage on offensive based teams. A VoltTurn team based around Mega Manectric can be very effective, while also having the possibility of playing on a rain team. Manectric can cripple a lot of threats with its ability, and can force a lot of switches making it one of the best offensive pivots in the game.
 

Croven

certified genius
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
So I posted this in the previous thread, but it was literally the last mon given before the discussion to start a new thread, so I'll repost it here:

What to use:


Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal ==> Technician
EV's: 248 HP/ 44 Atk/ 116 Def/ 100 SpD
Adamant Nature
-Bullet Punch
-Knock Off/Superpower
-Swords Dance
-Roost

Role: Physical Sweeper

What it does: Kill things with chainsaw arms. No, really. While having Roost on a sweeping set may seem odd and out of place, Roost is what gives Scizor its uniqueness and likely the most bulk out of any set up mons. It literally has the physical bulk of Skarmory, one of the most notorious physical walls ever to exist. In addition to that, it has splendid special bulk that can easily tank moves from both spectrums. Not only that, but it only has one weakness: Fire. However, that one weakness is a common attacking type and can prevent Scizor from sweeping. Still, this Iron Man can set up on many of the most common OU mons there are: Ttar, Lando-T, Lati@s lacking HP Fire, Excadrill, and a hell of a lot more that I'm too lazy to type. With a base 150 Attack stat, STAB Technician priority in Bullet Punch, not much is really stopping this thing from sweeping. Once the checks are weakened and an SD is set up, you're golden.

Good Teammates: Anything that eats up Fire moves and can take out Rotom, Charizard, Skarmory, and Heatran. Politoed can be a decent partner, if you like weather. Rain will alleviate Scizor's Fire weakness, allowing it to set up with far less pressure. Kyurem-B can easily take down many of these threats, paving the way for a Scizor sweep. Also, Heatran can sponge Fire moves and fire back with an Earth Power. It can also set up Rocks to severely cripple Charizard and Talonflame, some of the most common Scizor switch ins. Basically anything that loves Fire attacks and can easily defeat common physical walls.

What Counters It: As I've been saying, fast Fire types pretty much kill this thing with ease. Examples are both Zard forms and Talonflame. Heatran can also wall most sets. Rotom-W is pretty safe, as it can tank BP's all day and can hit Zor with a WoW before Knock Off or Superpower comes in. Skarmory shrugs off all attacks, but can only phaze it out with Whirlwind. Physically defensive Venusaur with HP Fire can eat up attacks and 2HKO it with HP Fire.

Additional Comments: The EV's are a bit weird, but it allows you to avoid the 2HKO from Adamant Lando-T's Earthquake and Aegislash's Shadow Ball. However, Aegi is gone now, so a set with some speed and Superpower is viable for getting the jump on Heatran and OHKO'ing. Also one thing to note about Talonflame: Since Flare Blitz does not have priority and its defenses are very low, you can possibly take it out with a Bullet Punch if you manage to keep Rocks on the other side of the field:

+2 44+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 137-162 (46.1 - 54.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


Again, I posted this in the previous thread, but it was one of the later posts and wasn't added, so I'll post it again here:

What to use:


Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
Ability: Oblivious
EV's: 252 Atk/ 4 Def/ 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Stealth Rock
-Endeavor/Icicle Spear
-Earthquake
-Ice Shard

Role: Lead

What it does: Mamoswine is a lead meant to get up hazards and cripple an opposing lead. With Focus Sash, it is guaranteed to at least get up your Rocks, especially since Oblivious prevents it from being Taunted. Once brought down to the Sash, Mamoswine can decide to use Endeavor to lower the opponents HP to literally 1, then pick it off with Ice Shard. Mamoswine doesn't always have to lay down the hazards the first turn; if up against a faster opponent, Endeavor could be used first to be able to pick it off with Ice Shard. Mamoswine is also helpful later in the match, even when he is at 1%, because of his STAB priority. Ice Shard can revenge kill a lot of other opponents with his base 130 Attack stat, so don't mindlessly sacrifice him early in the game.

Good Teammates: Most things that appreciate Rocks on the other side of the field, such as sweepers or wallbreakers. This set is dedicated to offensive teams, so make sure to have powerful sweepers teamed up with it. If not using Icicle Spear, this set can have some trouble with other leads, such as Smeargle or Breloom. Espeon is slightly niche, but it can be used for the mind games against Smeargle. Basically, any strong attacker that can net more OHKO'es with Rocks likes Mamoswine, such as Dragonite or Landorus.

What Counters It: Not too much can necessarily 'counter' a lead, but as previously mentioned, mons like Smeargle and Breloom can give it a hard time with Spore and Focus Sash. Espeon is a decent check to it, preventing it from getting up its hazards. However, it is frail and will fall to Earthquake and Ice Shard. Pretty much anything preventing it from getting hazards up is a decent counter to Lead Mamoswine.

Additional Comments: Icicle Spear can be run over Endeavor to break opposing Sashes on mons such as Breloom and Smeargle, but Endeavor is usually the best option.
 
Ok I believe that we need to adjust ourselfes after aegi's ban!

Wallbreaker:
What to use:
Heracross (M) @ Heracronite
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Substitute/ Pin Missile
- Rock Blast

What it does:
Now that Aegislash is banned heracross does no longer need earthquake in its movepool, so we can easily slap swords dance on him, now he can easily ohko skarmory, the sturdiest wall in the tier, form here on, nothing on stall teams can take hera's blows.
The choice between pin missile and substitute depends on your team, pin missile is a nice stab and useful against stuff like slowbro, while substitute can "transform" gliscor from check to set up bait
Good Teammates:
Something that allows heracross to come in unharmed, volturn users like rotom-wash and landorus-therian easily comes to mind, memento latios has a great sinergy with him, thanks to memento and defog heracross gets easier chances to set up
Keldoe can weaken stuff like mega venusaur and azumarill, hoping for a burn, and also destroy gliscor and skarmory if heracross doesn't get a chance to set up.
What counters it:
truthfully there isn't a real counter for heracross, some 'mon can check him though, doublade for example resists every heracross moves, but cannot kill him easily, talonflame and pinsir can easily destroy heracross, but cannot switch in against rock blast/substitute, landorus can take a hit and kill him with psychic, landorus-therian is somehow okay-ish thanks to intimidate, mostly heracross will find trouble against faster stuff than him
who can easily ohko him, however most of these cannot easily switch into him
Any additional Info:
Adamant over jolly allows heracross to always ohko leftovers skarmory after sr with a +2 close combat, it does also give him some chances to ohko gliscor at +2 after stealth rocks, of course, jolly is still a good choice overall.
 
Last edited:

Croven

certified genius
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
What to use:


Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EV's: 252 HP/ 104 Def/ 152 Spe
Impish Nature
-Taunt
-Will-o-Wisp
-Soft-Boiled
-Knock Off

Role: Stallbreaker

What it Does: Brings stall to its knees begging for mercy. This Mew is the bane of stall, and can even tear apart unprepared offensive teams as well. With Taunt and Will-o-Wisp, it easily wears down almost any wall that stall has to offer. Since most lack a solid offensive presence, Taunt makes them utter bait while WoW in tandem with Knock Off wears them down extremely quickly. Its decent bulk and Soft-Boiled is enough to make it last throughout the match. As I said earlier, Mew can also be used well against offensive teams, with WoW burning and lowering attack on the switch, and Knock Off removing items. It's difficult to set up on Mew, as Taunt, WoW, and Knock Off can shut that down immediately. Overall, Mew is a great mon that can easily stallbreak while still doing really well against offense.

Good Teammates: Any kind of sweeper is usually a good teammate, as they can set up on burned mons easily and proceed to sweep. All of these sweepers appreciate Mew's support, and can make good use of it. While having Synchronize to ward off random Toxics, Mew still hates status. Status absorbers, like Gliscor, Conkeldurr, or RestTalk Gyara and Clerics such as Chansey or Clefable are good teammates. Conkeldurr can take care of Heatran, and Gliscor can also take out Charizard X, which is worth noting.

What counters it: Most fire types such as Heatran and both Charizard forms can eat up WoW's and Knock Off will do next to nothing, while easily bopping Mew with a Toxic, Fire Blast, or Flare Blitz. Also, Lum Berry Bisharp is a slightly obscure but viable check. Gengar is faster and can do some serious damage with a Shadow Ball, but will also lose sever HP from Knock Off.

Edit: Gdi I got ninja'd by Albacore. That's what I get for not looking at previous posts.
 
Last edited:

Aragorn the King

Literally a duck
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
What to use:


Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EV's: 252 HP/ 104 Def/ 152 Spe
Impish Nature
-Taunt
-Will-o-Wisp
-Soft-Boiled
-Knock Off

Role: Stallbreaker

What it Does: Brings stall to its knees begging for mercy. This Mew is the bane of stall, and can even tear apart unprepared offensive teams as well. With Taunt and Will-o-Wisp, it easily wears down almost any wall that stall has to offer. Since most lack a solid offensive presence, Taunt makes them utter bait while WoW in tandem with Knock Off wears them down extremely quickly. Its decent bulk and Soft-Boiled is enough to make it last throughout the match. As I said earlier, Mew can also be used well against offensive teams, with WoW burning and lowering attack on the switch, and Knock Off removing items. It's difficult to set up on Mew, as Taunt, WoW, and Knock Off can shut that down immediately. Overall, Mew is a great mon that can easily stallbreak while still doing really well against offense.

Good Teammates: Any kind of sweeper is usually a good teammate, as they can set up on burned mons easily and proceed to sweep. All of these sweepers appreciate Mew's support, and can make good use of it. While having Synchronize to ward off random Toxics, Mew still hates status. Status absorbers, like Gliscor, Conkeldurr, or RestTalk Gyara and Clerics such as Chansey or Clefable are good teammates. Conkeldurr can take care of Heatran, and Gliscor can also take out Charizard X, which is worth noting.

What counters it: Most fire types such as Heatran and both Charizard forms can eat up WoW's and Knock Off will do next to nothing, while easily bopping Mew with a Toxic, Fire Blast, or Flare Blitz. Also, Lum Berry Bisharp is a slightly obscure but viable check. Gengar is faster and can do some serious damage with a Shadow Ball, but will also lose sever HP from Knock Off.
Albacore did Mew four posts ago.

Anyway, just so this isn't a one-liner, I'm doing M-Amphy.



Ampharos @ Ampharosite
Ability: Static
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Agility
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Dragon Pulse
- Focus Blast


Role: Special Sweeper

What It Does: Mega Ampharos is a really cool special sweeper in OU. It boasts insane Special Attack and powerful STAB and coverage moves, and, after an Agility, is faster than everything up to Greninja. Thus, it's a pretty good late game cleaner in the tier. Agility is an obvious move on the set, since without it, it can barely outspeed anything. Thunderbolt is good for an accurate Electric STAB move if your using Ampharos as a stand-alone sweeper. However, if using Ampharos on a rain team, which is recommended, use Thunder. Dragon Pulse is a great complementary STAB move, covering Dragon-types like Garchomp and Mega Charizard-X that resist Thunderbolt. Focus Blast rounds off the set's excellent three-move coverage. It's able to hit Excadrill, a ubiquitous Pokemon who resists Ampharos' STAB moves, super-effectively, as well as Heatran. At first, Mega Ampharos' ability, Mold Breaker, seems useless. However, it's actually really nice, since it lets it bypass Skarmory's Sturdy and Dragonite's Multiscale and OHKO both. Additionally, unlike some special sweepers like Greninja, Mega Ampharos is really bulky. It also resists Flying, Fire, and Electric, and is thus a nice check to Thundurus and Talonflame on offensive teams.

Good Teammates: Ampharos is weak to Fairy, Ice, Dragon, and Ground, so Pokemon that can handle common users of these moves really help Ampharos out. Ferrothorn resists two of the types and is neutral to the other two, and so makes a pretty great partner. It also appreciates Ampharos' resistance to Fire. Additionally, Ampharos struggles against specially bulky Pokemon, so any Pokemon that can do massive physical damage, like Terrakion, Azumarill, and Keldeo, are appreciated. A cleric is also appreciated, since in some matches you'll need to switch Ampharos in on a Brave Bird, and then live a hit from something else to setup an Agility. Sometimes this is impossible for just Ampharos to manage, so having Wish support is great. Additionally, sometimes Ampharos needs a little boost in power. It and Togekiss have good defensive synergy, and so Togekiss is able to pass Nasty Plots to it relatively easily.

What Counters It: Specially defensive Pokemon, like Chansey, Gliscor, and Clefable (the last two must have EVs in Special Defense), work well against Ampharos, since it has no way to boost its, albeit impressive, 471 Special Attack. Additionally, while Ampharos outspeeds Greninja, one of the fastest unboosted threats, it's hopeless against most boosted threats. Pokemon like Scarf Garchomp and Sand Rush Excadrill (in the sand) easily outspeed and OHKO +2 Ampharos. These two in particular are also one-shotted by Ampharos, and so aren't counters, but this section is mainly for ways to beat a threat anyway. Offensive teams won't use Gliscor or Chansey, so it's good in my opinion to list some checks and revenge killers here as well.

Any Additional Info: Try to save Ampharos for the late game. Weaken everything to the point at which a Thunderbolt or Dragon Pulse will be able to clean, and remove things that outspeed and OHKO Ampharos. Sometimes, Ampharos has to take a hit in a game. Don't worry, it's ridiculously bulky. However, it lacks recovery, so after taking a CB Brave Bird from Talonflame, setting up an Agility and sweeping will be much harder than starting at 100% health. Also, if using Ampharos on a rain team, ensure you have more than one rain setter and you keep at least one healthy as long as Ampharos is. There's nothing worse (okay there probably is, but whatever) than setting up at the right moment and being able to start your sweeper, while in the middle of it, Thunder misses and you lose.
 
Last edited:
What to use:


Role: Special Attacker/Wallbreaker
Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Scald
- Hidden Power [Flying] / Icy Wind / Hidden Power [Electric]

What it does: Keldeo has a very small useable movepool, but with a high base 129 Special Attack and 108 speed, its excellent STAB combination, and signature move Secret Sword allowing it to act as a mixed attacker, it is one of the best offensive pokemon in OU. Choice Specs is the most common item for Keldeo to hold, as with the added boost in power it can be an effective wallbreaker, while also being able to sweep with its high speed in the late game.
Hydro Pump is the first Water STAB move, and is immensely powerful when backed up by Choice Specs. Secret Sword is a Special Attack, but hits on a pokemon's Special Defense. This allows Keldeo to 2HKO Chansey, with the potential for an OHKO if Stealth Rocks are up, something that even Choice Specs Psyshock Latios cannot achieve. Scald is the 3rd move, and the second Water STAB, as Keldeo has no other useable special attacks with a high base power. Hydro Pump is 37.5% more powerful than Scald, but Scald's perfect accuracy and amazing 30% burn chance make it the most reliable move to go for. Keldeo's remaining move, most commonly Hidden Power, is used to lure in some of its checks and defeat them. This 4th move is how Keldeo adapts to the metagame, and at present, there are three main options, with the first two being the most common on Choice Specs sets.

Hidden Power [Flying] is primarily used to hit Mega Venusaur on a predicted switchin, and with Stealth Rocks up, is a guaranteed 2HKO on 252 HP/0 SpD Bold Venusaur. Celebi and Amoongus will also likely be 2HKOed without some SpD investment.

Icy Wind is used over Hidden Power [Ice], as Latios and Latias would otherwise be safe switchins to Keldeo, as they resist both STABs, outspeed and can OHKO Keldeo. Icy Wind's speed drop, allows Keldeo to potentially 2HKO both pokemon if it catches them on the switch (Latias needs Stealth Rock damage to guarantee the 2HKO). Icy Wind is also useful for hitting other Dragon types, particularly Dragonite who resists Keldeo's Dual STABs.

Hidden Power [Electric] can be useful for non-Mega Gyarados and Azumarill, although this is mainly used on Choice Scarf Keldeo sets, to outspeed +1 speed Gyarados. The other Hidden Power types are currently very situational, such as Hidden Power [Bug] for Celebi, and it may be more practical to use a teammate to counter a particular pokemon rather than relying on Keldeo to do so.

Good teammates: Choice Specs Keldeo is a fairly self-supporting pokemon and can fit onto a variety of offensive and balanced teams. Mega Charizard Y + Pursuit user + Keldeo was a common core in early XY OU, as Keldeo could remove Chansey for Mega Charizard Y, and the Pursuit user could trap Latios and Latias for Keldeo. Keldeo can wallbreak for Mega Gardevoir by removing Chansey as well as Steel types. Gen 5 OU Cores such as Keldeo + Pursuit Tyranitar + Landorus (or Landorus-T) can still be effective, although Azumarill is a notable new threat to this core. Even without defense investment, Keldeo still has reasonable 91/90/90 defenses, and is one of the few pokemon that can reliably switch into all common sets of Tyranitar and Bisharp, or come in to revenge kill +2 Bisharp. Because of this, the currently popular Choice Scarf Landorus-T is also a good partner, as its Intimidate activates Bisharp's Defiant, which can place it in Sucker Punch's OHKO range.

What counters it: A lot of pokemon that naturally outspeed Keldeo also have a super-effective STAB move to hit it with, including Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Alakazam, Mega Manectric, Protean Greninja, Thundurus, Tornadus-T, Latios, Latias and Noivern. A few slower pokemon either resist both of Keldeo's STABs, and/or have enough bulk to take two attacks, including Azumarill (particularly with Assault Vest), Slowbro, Amoongus, Mega Venusaur and Alomomola, although note that Keldeo may be able to hit these pokemon super effectively with its 4th move. Talonflame can revenge kill Keldeo, although Keldeo matches up well against all other priority users. Gastrodon and Jellicent are immune to one or both of Keldeo's STABs, although both pokemon are less effective now than they were in Gen 5 OU. Suicune can set up on Keldeo if it's locked into any move other than Secret Sword, and even then, Keldeo is not able to reliably beat Suicune.

Any additional info: Scald is generally the safest move to use in the early game, as most of Keldeo's counters do not like being burnt. Don't be tempted to use a Modest nature for added power, as this leaves Keldeo outsped by +Speed natured Base 95's, so it will no longer be able to check key threats that it otherwise could have.
 
Last edited:

Always!

WAGESLAVE
is a Tiering Contributor
Albacore did Mew four posts ago.

Anyway, just so this isn't a one-liner, I'm doing M-Amphy.



Ampharos @ Ampharosite
Ability: Static
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Agility
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Dragon Pulse
- Focus Blast


Role: Special Sweeper

What It Does: Mega Ampharos is a really cool special sweeper in OU. It boasts insane Special Attack and powerful STAB and coverage moves, and, after an Agility, is faster than everything up to Greninja. Thus, it's a pretty good late game cleaner in the tier. Agility is an obvious move on the set, since without it, it can barely outspeed anything. Thunderbolt is good for an accurate Electric STAB move if your using Ampharos as a stand-alone sweeper. However, if using Ampharos on a rain team, which is recommended, use Thunder. Dragon Pulse is a great complementary STAB move, covering Dragon-types like Garchomp and Mega Charizard-X that resist Thunderbolt. Focus Blast rounds off the set's excellent three-move coverage. It's able to hit Excadrill, a ubiquitous Pokemon who resists Ampharos' STAB moves, super-effectively, as well as Heatran. At first, Mega Ampharos' ability, Mold Breaker, seems useless. However, it's actually really nice, since it lets it bypass Skarmory's Sturdy and Dragonite's Multiscale and OHKO both. Additionally, unlike some special sweepers like Greninja, Mega Ampharos is really bulky. It also resists Flying, Fire, and Electric, and is thus a nice check to Thundurus and Talonflame on offensive teams.

Good Teammates: Ampharos is weak to Fairy, Ice, Dragon, and Ground, so Pokemon that can handle common users of these moves really help Ampharos out. Ferrothorn resists two of the types and is neutral to the other two, and so makes a pretty great partner. It also appreciates Ampharos' resistance to Fire. Additionally, Ampharos struggles against specially bulky Pokemon, so any Pokemon that can do massive physical damage, like Terrakion, Mega Charizard-X, and Keldeo, are appreciated. A cleric is also appreciated, since in some matches you'll need to switch Ampharos in on a Brave Bird, and then live a hit from something else to setup an Agility. Sometimes this is impossible for just Ampharos to manage, so having Wish support is great. Additionally, sometimes Ampharos needs a little boost in power. It and Togekiss have good defensive synergy, and so Togekiss is able to pass Nasty Plots to it relatively easily.

What Counters It: Specially defensive Pokemon, like Chansey, Gliscor, and Clefable (the last two must have EVs in Special Defense), work well against Ampharos, since it has no way to boost its, albeit impressive, 471 Special Attack. Additionally, while Ampharos outspeeds Greninja, one of the fastest unboosted threats, it's hopeless against most boosted threats. Pokemon like Scarf Garchomp and Sand Rush Excadrill (in the sand) easily outspeed and OHKO +2 Ampharos. These two in particular are also one-shotted by Ampharos, and so aren't counters, but this section is mainly for ways to beat a threat anyway. Offensive teams won't use Gliscor or Chansey, so it's good in my opinion to list some checks and revenge killers here as well.

Any Additional Info: Try to save Ampharos for the late game. Weaken everything to the point at which a Thunderbolt or Dragon Pulse will be able to clean, and remove things that outspeed and OHKO Ampharos. Sometimes, Ampharos has to take a hit in a game. Don't worry, it's ridiculously bulky. However, it lacks recovery, so after taking a CB Brave Bird from Talonflame, setting up an Agility and sweeping will be much harder than starting at 100% health. Also, if using Ampharos on a rain team, ensure you have more than one rain setter and you keep at least one healthy as long as Ampharos is. There's nothing worse (okay there probably is, but whatever) than setting up at the right moment and being able to start your sweeper, while in the middle of it, Thunder misses and you lose.
Mega Charizard X is a horrible partner.

Wait, scratch that, it simply isn't a partner lol

Smh, adding more dragon weaknesses so ScarfKindra can come in and fuck shit up


edit: YOU PUT MEGA FUCKING AZUARILL OH GOD

Going to put in my set in a bit
 
Last edited:
What to use:


Pinsir (M) @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter -> Aerilate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Frustration
- Quick Attack
- Close Combat/Earthquake
- Swords Dance

Role: Physical Sweeper

What it does: This is one of the most fearsome sweepers in the game. To start, Mega Pinsir gets a staggering 155 base attack, great 105 base speed, and an unusually overlooked base 120 defense. Aerilate was a gift from the Mega gods and turns it into a complete monster. For the unaware, Aerilate takes any Normal-type move (in this case Frustration and Quick Attack) and turns them into Flying type moves. But that's not all! In addition to getting STAB on those Flying moves (Mega Pinsir becomes half Flying upon Mega Evolving), those moves receive a 30% boost on top of the aforementioned STAB. So you essentially have 199 BP STAB move and a 78 BP priority. Now, Flying is a great type, but it is resisted by Electric, Steel and Rock. Conveniently, Mega Pinsir gets two great moves to deal with those types. Close Combat and Earthquake both take out Rock and Steel types, with the latter also taking out Electric types. Earthquake is great for dealing with Electric types, but most prefer Close Combat because it heavily dents two of the flying beetle’s two most common answers: Rotom-W and Skarmory. At +2, which it can get from Swords Dance, Pinsir easily 2HKO’s Rotom-W on the switch and just ekes out the 2HKO against Skarm. Granted, it has to hit the two of them on the switch with CC, but it really says something when your common answers can’t avoid the 2HKO. The last move slot goes to Swords Dance, which is just the icing on the ridiculously powerful sweeper cake. Mega Pinsir is a force unboosted, but if it grabs an SD boost (or a Moxie boost before evolving) you better have some good revenge killers lined up. In summary, monstrous attack, a good speed tier, Aerilate boosted priority and three great attacking moves make Mega Pinsir quite the force.

Good teammates: Pinsir’s biggest pain is Talonflame, who can revenge with BB fairly easily. Rotom-W, Zapdos or Rhyperior are good teammates to deal with Talonflame, and they also pick up the slack against other threats like opposing Mega Pinsir. The other major support Pinsir needs in hazard control. An already decent Stealth Rock weakness gets even bigger upon evolving, and can really hamper switch in opportunities. Two good hazard control teammates are Starmie and Latias. Starmie packs quite the special punch to balance Pinsir’s physical presence. Latias is useful support for two reasons. One, similar to Starmie it packs a good punch from the special side, and two, it can give a weakened Mega Pinsir a second shot at life with Healing Wish. A Ground type can also be helpful, because Mega Pinsir tends to draw a lot of Electric attacks from BirdSpam counters. Something like Excadrill can provide good suppport in the way of absorbing Electric attacks, setting Rocks and spinning hazards away.

What counters it: The common BirdSpam counters give it headaches. Watch out for Raikou, Mega Manectric, Zapdos, Thundurus and Rotom-W. They all carry strong Electric attacks that can end Mega Pinsir quickly, and most of them can outspeed you be it naturally or with a Scarf. Manectric can also harass you with Intimidate and Thundurus can do the same with Thunder Wave. Zapdos and Thundurus hold the claim of being two of the only OU mons to resist all three of Pinsir's main attacking types. Talonflame also looms as a warning not to set-up. While not a counter, Talon is certainly the biggest threat.

Any additional info: If you are using Earthquake, Mold Breaker can be used over Hyper Cutter to nail Rotom-W on the switch prior to Mega evolving. Moxie can also be used over Hyper Cutter to snag a quick +1 before Mega Evolving. All three abilities have their merits, Hyper Cutter is usually the most useful out of the group. Frustration is used over Return because of Ditto trying to revenge it. Other then that, just Swords Dance and wreck stuff. Watch as whole teams crumble at your feet.
 
Last edited:
Hey Alex, nice idea to revive this threat; I always went back to see new ideas to my teams onto the TRC one, and now that is back I hope to this hold until the end of Gen VI : ) (maaaaybe with other versions, but whatever). Since so many people are starting to fill the gaps again, I resolve start to pic some mons that still aren't choosen, but it's just a question of time to they start appearing again... With no more stalling, let me introcude to my review of M-Heracross:

What to use:



Heracross-Mega (M) @ Heracronite
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Pin Missile
- Rock Blast
- Bullet Seed / Swords Dance / Substitute

Role: Wallbreaker

What it does: Being the holder of the 2° biggest attack stat of any Pokémon, Mega Heracross quite literally destroys everything in front of him, can come in several times in a battle with the proper support and still has an very nice bulk to patch reasonable strong, non-STAB moves. Most of its hard counters are handled easily with his awesome coverage, like Azumarill, who can came into his STAB combination, but still takes a ton of damage from Bullet Seed. Mega Heracross low base Speed stat and therefore reliance on the others teammates does hold it back a bit, but with such 185 base Attack stat is nothing to be underestimated, and is definitely worth consideration on your team.

Good teammates: While Mega Heracross can easily sweep a whole team by itself after he's sufficiently weakened, he certanly appreciates some support of things that can patch his complete lack of speed to hit Flying types on an 1x1 situation. Some of his best parters includes all of the checks/counters that can deal with most of the omnipotent forces in Flying Spawn, being Talonflame and Mega Pinsir the primarily responsibles... With that in mind, Heatran is an fantastic partner to Heracross, since he not only can put an dead stop to Talonflame, but also has an really good synergy with Heracross, being able to switch into Flying, Psychic, Fairy and Fire moves, white Heracross can come on Ground and Fighting almost all the match. Zapdos is also other interesting possibility, since him isn't just an really hard counter to Mega Pinsir, but to Flying Spam pokes in general... Also, giving the support of Defog allows Heracross to switch with more freely and constantly than he could without SR and Spikes on the field. Pokémon that can come on certain walls that Mega Heracross struggle to reliability 2HKOes, like Skarmory or Gliscor are also welcome; Thundurus is the best choice on that case, since he can kill both with ease using Thunderbolt and HP Ice. And finally, while 80/115/105 defenses isn't what you can call bad, Mega Heracross is an Pokémon that tends to be burned very easily after mega evolving... If you aren't using Substitute in the last moveslot, is recomended the attachment of an dedicate Status Absorver or Cleric, with ChestoRest Rotom-W being the best partner to it.

What counters it: Anyone that already uses Mega Heracross would laugh at your face, since "counter" is an really strong word to pair with him. Despite being impossible to properly wall, there's still some things that he can't automatically 2HKO, like Gliscor, Skarmory and Landorus-T (all with maximum HP and Defense investiment). Pokémon that function as an sweeper and carries an really strong STAB like Mega Medicham, Dragonite and (Mega) Gyarados can also be problematic if gives the chance of setup, since despite very bulky, Mega Heracross lacks the speed to do something before being hit. As mentioned above, FlyingSpam is the worst nightmare to any team that dares to have an Heracross on it, so caution is advised.

Any additional info: With the given EV's spread above allows you to outspeed Adamant Bisharp, while putting whats left into HP to more bulk... This is the most optimal choice to Mega Heracross, since with an so disappointing base 75 Spd, Bisharp is the only really relevant landmark to start with, however, as mentioned on the official Smogon Strategy Dex, an alternative spread with a Jolly nature and 212 Speed EVs allows Mega Heracross to outspeed Adamant Dragonite and Gyarados, but forgoing the extra bulk and power generally isn't worth it. If you are running Swords Dance over Bullet Seed, keep in mind that you will lose some of your perfect coverage to things like Azumarill, but it's nothing too relevant at the point to run an Ferrothorn on your team; Also, make sure that all of the possible checks have been killed or damaged before attempt to use it properly, because revealing SD before something like Latios hasn't gone can help the other player to be more careful next time, same goes to Substitute; However, using it allows you to bypass some slowers WoWspers that may try to switch into an resisted move, like (Sp.Def) Heatran and Jellicent

And that's it... I think i cover everything thats was important to talk, but anything that I didn't say, everyone can feel free to remind me : ). I'm gonna start follow this threat from now, so If u like my text, plz send me your opinion because I will continue to post more reviews; Until then, here is my contribution.


[EDIT] Thanks to the advices from BlackLight and Celticpride034, now I adapted my previous post changing the last moveslot for more choices and coverages... Also I fixed that strange Keldeo gif that was on my entire text.
 
Last edited:
What not to use:



Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- U-turn
- Superpower/Flash Cannon/Fire Blast/Earth Power


Role: Revenge Killer/Pivot

What It Does: Hydreigon is a terrible scarfer, with a myriad of problems and no real niche over other scarfers like Terrakion, Lando-T or fast mons/revenge killers in general like Mega-Alakazam or Talonflame. The first problem that Hydreigon faces as a revenge killer is it's speed tier. While it's great for decently bulky pokemon, it is terrible for a "fast mon" as it outsped/beaten by Scarf Keldeo, Scarf Terrakion, Scarf Staraptor, Scarf Garchomp, +1 Char-X, SR Exca, etc. The point is that it loses the speed war to pretty much everything. The 2nd problem is it's typing, Which is exploited by every fast mon ever. Priority wise it's neutral to E-Speed/Brave Bird/B-Punch and weak to everything else. It's also weak to U-Turn and pretty much every fastmon I mentioned above can hit it SE with a STAB or powerful coverage (such as Staraptor's close combat). Oh, it resists Aqua jet but it's forced out anyway so its irrelevant. The 3rd problem is power, 125 neutral base w/o an item or ability is kinda weak and makes revengekilling kinda hard, especially since you're relying on neutral coverage most of the time. Draco meteor is powerful but no dragon will ever switch in and fairies like Azumarill resist your whole moveset and can come in with impunity. Lastly, if you get hit by knock off (entirely possible you'll use Hydreigon to resist a knock off) you are now 100% useless at revenge killing since you're below the 100 spe tier.

What Counters/Checks It: Azumarill, Heatran, Clefairy, actually most fairies, even if you're running Flash Cannon. Hydreigon is checked by pretty much every other scarfer, AV Conk, Mega Venusaur, Dnite W/multiscale.

Any Additional Info: While Hydreigon's Scarf set is terrible, the LO set is fairly decent at a different role. However, the bans of Aegislash and Mega-Mawile (Two big reasons to use it) and subsequent rise of the "Big 3" have hurt Hydreigon's viability on the whole quite a bit.
 

Albacore

sludge bomb is better than sludge wave
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Small nitpick Celticpride034 , but MPinsir actually prefers Hyper Cutter to Moxie. Moxie is extremely situational and really not worth it most of the time, while Hyper Cutter comes in handy whenever Lando-T tries to switch in, which happens relatively often.



Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability : Regenerator
EVs : 252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD
Bold Nature
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog
- Foul Play / HP [Fire / Stun Spore / HP Ice

Role: Pivot

What It Does: Thanks to its typing and ability, Amoonguss is one of the best all-around answers to Water types such as Azumarill, Keldeo, Rotom-W, Suicune, Manaphy, and to a lesser extent, Mega-Gyarados, and also deals with a few Grass and Fighting types too. Although it suffers from a lot of competition with Mega-Venusaur, who is more powerful and has more raw bulk, Amoongus's ability to consistently switch into these threats without getting worn down thanks to its great ability, Regenerator, makes it better suited for teams which need a Water counter that is nearly impossible to wear down. Regenerator is really what makes this Pokemon what it is, enabling it to gain its health back very easily and making it much harder to take down, and letting it potentially escape from a 2HKO by swicthing out and gaining its health back. While its pretty bad offensive stats may make it look passive and easy to take advantage of, its access to Spore gives it one chance to disable a threat, so it isn't completely passive. It also it's setup bait either, since it has access to Clear Smog, which stops the likes of Clefable, Manphy and Suicune from muscling past him, and Foul Play can hurt physical setup sweepers such as Mega-Scizor and Dragonite. Amoonguss can be a bit of a sitting duck once Sleep Clause has been activated, but it can still use Giga Drain to wear out the opposition, can choose to run Stun Spore to cripple the opposition, or can hit a Pokemon like Ferrothorn and Landorusin their 4x weakenesses with Hidden Power Fire/Ice.

Good teammates: Some very obvious teammates for Amoonguss would be other Regenerator Pokemon such as Slowbro, Alomomola, or Tornadus-T. Bulky Fire types such as Mega-Charizard-X or Heatran (particularly the latter since it resists all of Amoonguss's weakenesses) have good synergy with Amoonguss, especially since they can, paired up with Slowbro or Alomomola, form a FWG core with it. Bulky Steel types are also good partners since they resist Psychic and Flying type moves, which Amoonguss is weak to. Hippowdon and Tyranitar is also a pretty good partner for Amoonguss, since a lot of Pokemon that threaten them and sand offense in general (Azumarill, Keldeo, Breloom, Suicune etc) areeasily deal with by Amoonguss.

What Counters/Checks It:
Mandibuzz and Mega-Venusaur able to absorb Spore and beat it one-on-one. Once Sleep Clause has been activated, it isn't exactly difficult to beat Amoonguss, given his lack of offensive presence and weakeness to common types. Fire types such as Charizard-X Charizard-Y, Heatran, Flying types such as Talonflame, Tornadus-T and Staraptor, Ice types like Mamoswine and Kyurem-B, Psychic types like Mega-Alakazam and Mega-Medicham as well as Pokemon with coverage to beat it like Landorus-I and Greninja, and just powerful wallbreakers such as Mega-Heracross and Diggersby in general can deal with it just fine, however, none of these can prevent Amoonguss from switching out. The best way to completely remove Amoonguss is by trapping it with Gothitelle.

Any Additional Info: Amoonguss fits very well on Sand teams, since these tend to be quite water-weak. Also, thanks to Regenerator, it requires no hazard removal.
 
A) Don't run Bullet Seed, it really doesn't do anything for you since even Jolly Rock Blast 2HKOes a 252 HP Azumarill anyways, plus you lose out on Swords Dance or Substitute (which I haven't really seen but apparently is a thing).

B) Your entire post links to a gif of Keldeo. Might want to fix that.
 
Albacore duely noted. I will update it later today when I have a chance (harder to edit things on the mobile).

Also, I wouldn't slash Pin Missile and SD in the same slot. Slash SD and Bullet Seed if you insist on having BSeed on the set, but Bullet Seed really isn't optimal.
 
What to use

Salamence (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty/Naive Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast

Role
: late game cleaner

What it does: i was actually kinda bordering on putting it on what not to use, but it has a niche over its competition worthy enough of use. this set puts speed and moxie together in one package. it also has neat coverage. outrage is the main move you'll be using to clean, and you should be using dragon claw to pick off certain threats. naughty nature is primary because it gives it the power to kickstart a late game sweep, but naive can be used if you are concerned about max speed adamant mega charizard x. fire blast beats ferrothorn, skarmory, and scizor, which otherwise wall this set, but it is subpar for sweeping for (hopefully) obvious reasons. earthquake is used to nab heatran and stuff. it excels at late game cleaning once dragon resists/immunes are either weakened or gone. it is also quite strong, hitting a meaty 405 attack stat when using naughty. it is important to note that it really appreciates SR, as it can pick up more ohkos/2hkos to kickstart a sweep.

Good Teammates: first off, i should make it clear that if you don't have a Garchomp doing something that isn't choice scarf, there is next to no reason to use salamence. so therefore, a stealth rock garchomp is an almost required teammate, to give mence a reason to be on your team and provide stealth rock. then, magnezone is a great partner, being able to break walls and fairy types, as well as trap steel types to open up a hole for salamence to sweep. haxorus is also another good teammate, since it can break down teams for salamence, and salamence in turn can break down teams for haxorus. mega gyarados is also a great teammate for the above reasons.

What counters it: bulky fairy types are a universal counter to salamence. clefable, sylveon, azumarill are all bulky fairy types that take advantage of salamence. that aside, bulky ground types, and most bulky waters also beat salamence. it really struggles against most balance teams for this reason, but thats why haxorus+mega gyarados are good teammates. since most of salamences counters fall within some sort of group, such as bulky fairy, water, or ground types, there really isn't much to list. as for offensive checks, its actually kinda small. its speed is a huge asset against offensive teams, but for checks that exist, weavile, mamoswine, and scarf garchomp are all great ones. thundurus has the ability to cripple it with thunder wave, thus removing part of what makes it so threatening: its speed. azumarill is also a mainstay on offensive teams, so thats one of the things that makes it struggle a bit.

Addition info: use garchomp alongside it. seriously. i prefer LO lure garchomp since it can beat a lot of its counters.
 


Rebecca (Gardevoir) (M) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 24 Def / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast / HP Ground
- Taunt / Will-O-Wisp / Calm Mind

Role: Wall/Stallbreaker

What it does: With the awesome power of Pixilate Hyper Voice (FAE SCREAM OF DEATH,) STAB Psyshock to hit Chansey, good coverage options, and a wide support movepool with Taunt, Wisp, Calm Mind, Healing Wish, Destiny Bond, Encore, Wish, etc. etc. Mega Gardevoir is an exceptionally good stall breaker, with very little being able to stand up to its powerful STABs. Taunt also shuts down any attempts at recovery (or other support moves like Toxic) while Calm Mind boosts Gardevoir's already ridiculous offenses. Wisp is also a good option, crippling many possible counters.

It should be noted that Gardevoir has Trace before Mega Evolving, which allows it to do things like get Poison Heal from Gliscor, Flash Fire from Heatran, Multiscale from Dragonite, Speed Boost from Scolipede, or Swift Swim from Kingdra and friends. However, its ability will become Pixilate when it Mega Evolves, and you don't have the extra power from the SpA increase nor a Fairy STAB, but it does give an extra level of utility for Gardevoir.

Good Teammates: Magnezone traps most of Gardevoir's counters and allows Gardevoir to run the more reliable HP Ground for Heatran, as it doesn't need to worry about Ferrothorn. Scizor and Jirachi are still able to U-Turn out, but not all of their sets carry it. Garde and Zone's defensive synergy is not so bad either, with Magenzone being immune to Poison and quad-resisting Steel, while Gardevoir quad-resists Fighting. Beyond that, Gardevoir doesn't really need any more support than the usual defensive/pivot/hazard support that most Pokemon appreciate.

What counters it: Mega Scizor, Doublade and Jirachi are good checks, but are very vulnerable to burns. Bronzong can also check but is very, very uncommon. Victini is a good check, but is weak to rocks and has no recovery. Base 100 speed and low physical bulk means Gardevoir is not hard to revenge kill, but this doesn't prevent it from being a menace to defensive teams.

Addition info: Don't use Hyper Beam, it's powerful beyond reason with Pixilate but the recharge turn is utterly debilitating.

EDIT: wait when did OP get banned
 
Last edited:
A) Don't run Bullet Seed, it really doesn't do anything for you since even Jolly Rock Blast 2HKOes a 252 HP Azumarill anyways, plus you lose out on Swords Dance or Substitute (which I haven't really seen but apparently is a thing).

B) Your entire post links to a gif of Keldeo. Might want to fix that.
Albacore duely noted. I will update it later today when I have a chance (harder to edit things on the mobile).

Also, I wouldn't slash Pin Missile and SD in the same slot. Slash SD and Bullet Seed if you insist on having BSeed on the set, but Bullet Seed really isn't optimal.
Lol, tnx for the observations; I copied Fourth Inversion post format, so that's why my whole post was an Keldeo link :P , also about the SD thing: Yea I totally forgot to mention that BS is only to hit Azumarill and other obscure bullshit like Gastrodon (who takes an 2HKO with CC and PM), but still, I already move it to the last moveslot and added Substitute as an option too :)

What not to use:



Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- U-turn
- Superpower/Flash Cannon/Fire Blast/Earth Power


Role: Revenge Killer/Pivot

What It Does: Hydreigon is a terrible scarfer, with a myriad of problems and no real niche over other scarfers like Terrakion, Lando-T or fast mons/revenge killers in general like Mega-Alakazam or Talonflame. The first problem that Hydreigon faces as a revenge killer is it's speed tier. While it's great for decently bulky pokemon, it is terrible for a "fast mon" as it outsped/beaten by Scarf Keldeo, Scarf Terrakion, Scarf Staraptor, Scarf Garchomp, +1 Char-X, SR Exca, etc. The point is that it loses the speed war to pretty much everything. The 2nd problem is it's typing, Which is exploited by every fast mon ever. Priority wise it's neutral to E-Speed/Brave Bird/B-Punch and weak to everything else. It's also weak to U-Turn and pretty much every fastmon I mentioned above can hit it SE with a STAB or powerful coverage (such as Staraptor's close combat). Oh, it resists Aqua jet but it's forced out anyway so its irrelevant. The 3rd problem is power, 125 neutral base w/o an item or ability is kinda weak and makes revengekilling kinda hard, especially since you're relying on neutral coverage most of the time. Draco meteor is powerful but no dragon will ever switch in and fairies like Azumarill resist your whole moveset and can come in with impunity. Lastly, if you get hit by knock off (entirely possible you'll use Hydreigon to resist a knock off) you are now 100% useless at revenge killing since you're below the 100 spe tier.

What Counters/Checks It: Azumarill, Heatran, Clefairy, actually most fairies, even if you're running Flash Cannon. Hydreigon is checked by pretty much every other scarfer, AV Conk, Mega Venusaur, Dnite W/multiscale.

Any Additional Info: While Hydreigon's Scarf set is terrible, the LO set is fairly decent at a different role. However, the bans of Aegislash and Mega-Mawile (Two big reasons to use it) and subsequent rise of the "Big 3" have hurt Hydreigon's viability on the whole quite a bit.
Hey man, just an small advice: Your review lacks an "Good Teammates" section, and besides that, I think that Hydreigon is an so, SO terrible Revenge Killer that it doesn't deserves an mention anyways, even if he is into the "What NOT to use" section... But whatever, is just my opinion.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top