Good idea.
I'll put it in now.
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Pokémon Volcanion
- Thread starter Delibird is Amazing
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I'll put it in now.
Volcanion looks so great I think it will be OU. Gaining an immunity from its abillity which is the only good abillity from any of these event legendaries as well as a more accurate Hydro Pump/ Super Scald this thing is going to be a beast. Sporting a base 120 defence stat and a base 80 HP stat it is quite physically bulky however is does have a very bad special defence stat. I think assault vest might be good on it. It also has will-o-wisp a handy support move to have and although it's quite slow I think it will be quite good as a choice scarfer.
Among the three legendaries Volcanion is the one I have most confident in to be a top tier threat. Even if it ends up being outclassed by Heatran for the most part I think carrying the best water attack for his signature attack is good enough reason for it to be OU material.
I just hope it won't be a one trick pony and will be able to carry more coverage moves, just so we can see this guy's potential realized.
I just hope it won't be a one trick pony and will be able to carry more coverage moves, just so we can see this guy's potential realized.
I still think that some form of Specs set will be the best, AV is bad because Rock weakness, Scarf will be /ok/ and a Will-O or Toxic set would have potential if it was faster. Is no one thinking about a SpDef set? Burn covers his physical bulk and he has the typing and ability to wall nearly any bulky Water-type in OU outside Rotom.
It would probably be something like
Volcanion @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 80 SpDef / 180 Spe
Calm Nature
- Steam Eruption / Sleep Talk
- Toxic
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast / Sleep Talk
- Rest
Though possibly not as much Speed, that creeps standard Rotom. Its only true flaw is Speed and no recovery, and it doesn't have amazing synergy with Wishpassers, but this thing won't be amazing in OU anyway. Not Diancie bad, just not amazing.
It would probably be something like
Volcanion @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 80 SpDef / 180 Spe
Calm Nature
- Steam Eruption / Sleep Talk
- Toxic
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast / Sleep Talk
- Rest
Though possibly not as much Speed, that creeps standard Rotom. Its only true flaw is Speed and no recovery, and it doesn't have amazing synergy with Wishpassers, but this thing won't be amazing in OU anyway. Not Diancie bad, just not amazing.
Methinks you are underestimating just how good steam eruption is. Simply put, very few mons will want to swap into a steam eruption, regardless of typing or stats. Imagine a bulkier, slower specs keldeo that didn't have to choose between hydro pump or scald and has even better duel STAB coverage (as if keldeo's wasn't good enough), as well as legitimate coverage options besides HP (not that he needs them).
jonnyknows
Banned deucer.
Aaaaand why was my message removed....
It seems to me that the best chance that this Mon has in ou will be to be a one slot answer to basically all fwg cores. To do this, I'd probably run a set with max hp, enough speed to beat 44 speed rotom-w and dump the rest into sp atk with a set of steam eruption whatever fire attack you please (please get lava plume somehow) and then substitute with either wisp or toxic to beat stuff like slowbro and mega venu that aren't bothered much by your stabs. Will post set later as I'm on my phone right now. Choice specs and assault vest seem like viable options as well.
With these stats and its movepool, Volcanion is definitely not going to be a one trick pony. It has the potential to run numerous sets, with its best one, imo, being a choice specs set.
If it's going to be a defensive set, shouldn't it have regular ol' scald? Sure, steam eruption is nice and powerful, but it wouldn't be too good if it were to run out early, especially on a stall team.
I guess it would have a better dual STAB than Keldeo, considering each type covers each others resistances. However, having your STABs being resisted by dragons sucks.
EDIT:
Steam Eruption isn't really spammable; it's got 8 PP, sadly.
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No, it needs the extra power, and if it ever runs out (which if hopefully played right it shouldn't) then half the other team will probably be burned anyway. The power difference is huge
While I do agree with you, and the power difference is obvious, I still think it would depend on the type of team it's being used on. On balanced/offense, Steam Eruption would be the only way to go. On stall, either one works, but considering the fact that it's stall, the team is bound to last for quite a while and Steam Eruption lacks the PP, so scald could be an option. I'm not saying you shouldn't use steam eruption on a stall team, just that the extra PP could be useful later on in the match.
I don't think Volcanion is cut out for stall. You want a water type that can burn and recover it's own health? That's what Slowbro and Alomomola, and to a lesser extent, Starmie and Jellicent are for. If you've managed to use 8 Steam Eruptions in a match and half their team isn't dead and burned then you're doing something wrong. I also don't see it walling all Water pokemon as ones like Slowbro, Rotom-W and Starmie can carry Thunderbolt.
I agree that volc isn't great on stall (heck, even vap would work better due to being able to provide wish support), but as a wall I think it works fine. Starmie really isn't OU, slowbro rarely runs tbolt, usually opting for fire blast or ice beam instead, and rotom-w is but one mon that cannot run scald anyway, so for most OU water types he checks out. He can also wall darn near any fire type lacking EQ or a similar coverage move, is a hard azu counter, counters fairies in general, stops scizor, and has relatively few weaknesses allowing it to check many other threats.
Volc's real value is his ability to absorb scalds while firing back his super scald, which is something no other wall can attest to and is invaluable to bulky offense (remember those "lets ban scald" discussions from late gen 5? Having a viable scald absorber besides AV durr would help a lot).
Also, I think you meant "dead OR burned".
Point taken. In that case, I don't think the term 'wall' would be fitting for it. Instead, tank seems like it'd be a better role for it, or maybe even pivot.
babaGAReeb
Banned deucer.
it am good, better design then heatran and the steam damage and enjoyable
Volcanion @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 80 SpAtk / 180 Spe
Modest Nature
- Steam Eruption
- Toxic
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast / (Lava Plume please GameFreak?)
- Substitute
I think this is probably Volcanion's best shot in OU, and after reading some posts, I agree that rocks weakness definitely makes Assault Vest a sub-optimal choice at best. I also really doubt that Choice Specs sets will be that great, it's STAB attacks are far too easy to switch into, and I doubt that it's coverage will be good enough to compensate, since I really don't see this thing getting anything like freeze dry to kill the water and dragon types that will shrug off it's attacks. I see this pokemon being a nice asset for balance and bulky offense teams, but ultimately, I think it will end up in UU or maybe BL, but I doubt it will get banned from UU when they allow Haxorus and Hydreigon to run around. Yes steam eruption is quite awesome, but I fail to see this as better than a C+ ranked mon, as for most (MOST NOT ALL) niches it could fill it will be outclassed by our OU mainstay Heatran.
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 80 SpAtk / 180 Spe
Modest Nature
- Steam Eruption
- Toxic
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast / (Lava Plume please GameFreak?)
- Substitute
I think this is probably Volcanion's best shot in OU, and after reading some posts, I agree that rocks weakness definitely makes Assault Vest a sub-optimal choice at best. I also really doubt that Choice Specs sets will be that great, it's STAB attacks are far too easy to switch into, and I doubt that it's coverage will be good enough to compensate, since I really don't see this thing getting anything like freeze dry to kill the water and dragon types that will shrug off it's attacks. I see this pokemon being a nice asset for balance and bulky offense teams, but ultimately, I think it will end up in UU or maybe BL, but I doubt it will get banned from UU when they allow Haxorus and Hydreigon to run around. Yes steam eruption is quite awesome, but I fail to see this as better than a C+ ranked mon, as for most (MOST NOT ALL) niches it could fill it will be outclassed by our OU mainstay Heatran.
Literally all this thing will be doing will be spamming Steam Eruption so just run Specs, or perhaps Life Orb mixed if you want to Flare Blitz Chansey.
Regardless it's hard to validate using this thing at all over something like, Keldeo
A rule of thumb, don't hit Chansey with powerful recoil moves.
Trading Volcanion for Chansey is far better than letting Chansey simply not give a shit.
It seems largely unnecessary considering OU is full of mixed attackers that can dismantle Chansey without sacrificing themselves, why would you want to create a niche sacrificial lure rather than simply playing to the pokemon's strengths and letting 1 of the 5 other pokemon on your team handle the blob outside of extremely specific teambuilding conditions?
Obviously depends on the team. If my team benefits from making Vocanion able to two shot Chansey then I will gladly do it. If the rest of my team doesn't give a shit about Chansey it might be worth it to use Specs. Of course both situations can be covered by just running Keldeo who besides not being able to handle Azumarill as effectively and having a little less bulk seems to be the superior choice otherwise.
But deciding you'd rather be walled by Chansey than take it down with you just because "A rule of thumb, don't hit Chansey with powerful recoil moves." is just dumb.
Which goes along with my entire point. If what you need on your team is "strong water type specs attacker which also beats Chansey" then you shouldn't be running Volcanion in the first place and you should run Keldeo. Purposely choosing an inefficient sacrificial set for Volcanion when another does its job objectively better, rather than playing to Volcanion's strengths is idiotic. If you want a powerful special attacker which also happens to beat Chansey, don't use volcanion to begin with rather than a flimsy suicidal lure.
This pokemon is amazing I don't see the point of his weakness when its can be taken down easily but if theirs a ground faster than trouble its obvious that's it gonna be faster but its pretty bulky....
Currently they don't run it, but if Volcanion gets popular you can bet you'll start to see it more often.
I'm sorry, but since when is an ever stronger version of Specs Keldeo's Hydro Pump with a 30% burn chance easy to switch into? Yeah, Dragonite may be bulky and resist water, but I assure you it doesn't want the Burn.
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