CAP 19 CAP 19 - Part 6 - Stat Spread Poll 2

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jas61292

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In the battle of the speeds, three candidates remain. Though, of course all those other stats are super important too. So, time to look them all over once more and vote wisely.

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capefeather
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This poll will be open for 24 hours. The submissions are quoted below in order of submission.
Final Submission

114 HP / 55 Atk / 75 Def / 130 SpA / 65 SpD / 101 Spe

PT: 141.9376485601 (Good)
ST: 125.5649117034 (Good)
PS: 88.6619167656 (Below Average)
SS: 213.9008568226 (Fantastic)
BSR: 310.3372955057 (Very Good)
Outpaces Charizard and Mega Gardevoir, ties with Landorus Incarnate, and is slower than Garchomp. I think that we should at least tie with Charizard and Mega Gardevoir, because we're talking about three very different threats here that could force CAP 19's hand if it's slower and they manage to switch in safely.

So why 101 as opposed to 100? I do think that the difference between 100 and 101 isn't as critical as it used to be, say, way back in DPP when it helped get Garchomp banned. It should be noted that, should CAP 19 not get Fire-type or Ice-type coverage outside of Hidden Power, and since Hidden Power Fire lowers the Speed IV, the builder will probably have to choose between breaking through Ferrothorn and Magnezone, and maintaining maximum Speed. The latter option may mean tying with Charizard and Mega Gardevoir if the base Speed is 100, or tying with Landorus if the base Speed is 101.

Sure, Landorus Incarnate is supposed to be a possible check, but I just want to err on the side of breaking stuff that would hamper Mega Gyarados's (and, to some extent, Dragonite's) efforts to sweep, regardless of the Speed IV that CAP 19 uses. I suspect that many builders would rather be walled by Ferrothorn than give three different Megas more room than necessary, and such a lopsided choice is, I think, bad for CAP 19. It doesn't even cleanly OHKO Mega Charizard Y or Mega Gardevoir without a Life Orb or other boost, even with maxed out SS (139 SpA / 100/101 Spe in this case), but that just makes me want to outpace them more. A severely weakened Mega Charizard Y or Mega Gardevoir is still loads helpful to the cause.

There is certainly a case to outpace some other Pokemon, such as Mega Pinsir and Terrakion, but I figure CAP 19's already going to be strongly considering an Air Balloon, and the threat of a Thunderbolt would make Earthquake Pinsir think twice about trying to use Swords Dance. I want to focus more on wall-breaking than trying to outrun stuff. Gardevoir and Charizard aren't Pokemon that we can just screw with using Air Balloon, so outrunning them is more justifiable. Offensive variants of Mega Charizard X win in most cases regardless.

Same as Amoonguss. Basically, this is for greater recoil damage on Talonflame. Plus, it provides some BST control without making the Attack outrageously low (Rotom is at 50), and it makes it a bit harder to invest effectively in bulk without committing. The disadvantages are more HP healing from opponents' Leech Seed and unnecessarily making 101 HP Substitutes possible, but I see these as comparatively minor issues, especially since this spread can't do much to Chansey to begin with, at least without certain non-attacking moves.

This spread functions reasonably well as an emergency check to the likes of Choice Band Talonflame and Mega Manectric. To wit:

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP 19: 149-176 (40.2 - 47.5%)
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP 19: 124-147 (33.5 - 39.7%)
252 SpA Manectric Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP 19: 174-205 (47 - 55.4%) -> 87-103 (23.5 - 27.8%)
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD CAP 19: 133-156 (35.9 - 42.1%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP 19: 131-155 (35.4 - 41.8%)

I suspect that a physically defensive set might be tried to check such powerful attackers harder, but the choice of Speed means that it could be a tough call. Being slower than the likes of Gliscor, Excadrill, SubToxic Heatran, Mega Charizard Y and Mega Gardevoir is no laughing matter, as Mew could probably attest.

I suppose it's also worth mentioning that Greninja and Starmie easily OHKO this spread with their Psychic-type STABs. It does have a chance to survive Starmie even after Stealth Rock with max HP:

252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def CAP 19: 361-429 (83.5 - 99.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

However, it's difficult to avoid this without being significantly worse against Talonflame. In fact, the high HP on this spread actually mitigates the issue more than perhaps other spreads with similar PT.

CAP 19 wants to break certain walls and discourage sweepers from setting up. The most notable accomplishment of 130 SpA is the following:

252 SpA CAP 19 Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 186-220 (51.5 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

What this means is that Excadrill can check CAP 19, but if it's sniped by a Hidden Power Fire, then it's game over. It also means that CAP 19 could beat non-Scarf Excadrill using Air Balloon shenanigans. So yeah, Excadrill is still a check, but considering it's one of the more dangerous checks (especially if Sand Rush is involved), I think that this is fair.

Some other notable hits:
252 SpA CAP 19 Hidden Power Ice vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 336-396 (95.4 - 112.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA CAP 19 Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 204-240 (57.9 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA CAP 19 Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Amoonguss: 186-220 (43 - 50.9%) -- 54.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA CAP 19 Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 354-416 (89.8 - 105.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA CAP 19 Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 240-284 (86.6 - 102.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA CAP 19 Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 264-312 (88.8 - 105%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252 SpA CAP 19 Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 300-356 (83.7 - 99.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA CAP 19 Hidden Power Fire vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 144-170 (44.4 - 52.4%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA CAP 19 Sludge Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 144-169 (47.6 - 55.9%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb CAP 19 Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Amoonguss: 242-286 (56 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 19 Hidden Power Ice vs. 244 HP / 192+ SpD Gliscor: 317-374 (90 - 106.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 19 Sludge Wave vs. 248 HP / 148+ SpD Mega Charizard X: 179-212 (49.8 - 59%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 19 Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem-B: 220-261 (56.2 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 19 Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric: 243-289 (86.4 - 102.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (eh, close enough imo)
252 SpA Life Orb CAP 19 Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 32 SpD Assault Vest Raikou: 133-156 (41.4 - 48.5%) -- 71.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

There are two other reasons for going for high power rather than more speed or bulk. The first is that it lessens the need for coverage moves. This allows CAP 19 to have tricks other than just attacking stuff, while still being limited by the speed factor against certain ubiquitous fast threats. The other reason is that it controls the effects of Storm Drain more due to diminishing returns. If all you need is a Life Orb to break through certain walls, then you're really not sweeping much better with the boost than without it. At the same time, the option of trying to play for a boost or using a Life Orb is an interesting one to have.


I guess there isn't a whole lot to say other than what I've said to distinguish my submissions from others, because the Def is only 4 below what would ride the PT limit, and I suspect that few will go above 130 Special Attack.
Final Submission

60 HP / 57 Atk / 119 Def / 131 SpA / 98 SpD / 100 Spe (565 BST)

PT: 148.894
ST: 123.888
PS: 91.1374
SS: 213.969
BSR: 315.4127

Overall, at first glance it may seem I’m pushing a few boundaries with my spread, but I eased back on the Special Tankiness both to compensate for this and because I don’t think having fantastic special bulk is necessary. Physical bulk, however, was a bigger concern to me. Earthquakers are going to KO us no matter what we have for physical bulk, so I felt going fairly high was justifiable, since it allows us to survive non-stab Psyshocks from Fairies. In terms of speed, I’ve been paying attention to the various arguments and think that 100 provides a good middle ground of losing to Garchomp/Landorus and beating Mega Gardevoir.

I changed this to 100. Really, it allows us to outspeed a fair amount. Ultimately, I just took the arguments regarding Landorus and HP Ice to heart. I think 100 is favorable against Mega Gardevoir as well, since Gardy needs a turn to mega evolve and get her speed boost anyway, and she doesn’t want to risk speed ties to boot.


First off, just want to say things I do NOT want us to KO Alakazam.
252 SpA Life Orb CAP19 Sludge Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 212-251 (84.1 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This barely doesn’t KO, which is great, since we want fast/frail psychics to KO us.

Now onto Azumaril, something Gyarados doesn’t want to take a hit from.
252 SpA CAP19 Sludge Wave vs. 228 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 374-444 (93.9 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

Keep in mind this is against decently bulky band Azu, as the calc shows some HP invested. Furthermore, this calc is with an itemless CAP19. With an expert belt or life orb, this is a sure KO. I also became somewhat worried about assault vest Azu, since Bulldoze could wreck CAP19. However, at 131 Sp Atk, if for some reason we’re carrying specs, CAP19 still can almost always OHKO… albeit with Thunder.
252 SpA Choice Specs CAP19 Thunder vs. 16 HP / 240 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 336-396 (97.3 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

So, overall, I tried to balance the special attack stat to barely avoid KOs on Alakazam and to usually KO bulky Azus.

Another benefit of 131 Sp Atk is that it allows us to KO Gardevoir with sludge bomb/sludge wave if we’re holding expert belt or life orb, or if Gardevoir has taken SR damage and we don’t have an offensive item.


252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP19: 220-260 (84.2 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.

If we want to beat choice specs Sylveon, we either need ridiculous sp atk (168 base sp atk + life orb to 1hko 242 HP Sylveon, unless my calc program is off) OR the ability to survive its hit and the ability to 2hko in turn by being faster. I think having such high special attack is unrealistic, so instead I took the route of surviving that psyshock. It should also be noted that at this defense stat, Life Orb Alakazam still OHKOs us with room to spare, meaning we can still lose to notable psychic types like we want to.


I was somewhat concerned with Hidden Power Ground from notable Special Attackers, such as Keldeo or Gothitelle, but getting enough bulk and staying within the ST guidelines didn’t seem too reasonable.
Ultimately, I decided on 98 Sp. Def in order to just barely survive a Mega Manectric Overheat at +1 the vast majority of the time. I mean, in the end, it’s not unreasonable to assume a Manectric might nab a +1 since we have electric STAB.
+1 252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD CAP19: 222-262 (85 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
After stealth rock, we have a fair chance of KOing Mega Manectric with Sludge Wave (at 131 Sp Atk + Life Orb), meaning we’ll either KO it and prevent it from messing with Gyarados, or we’ll cripple it severely to the point where it could probably be picked off easily at a later time.

99 Sp Def also allows us to lose to plenty of Psychic users that aren’t using Psyshock.


I could have used more HP and less of the defenses to have achieved a bulkier mon, but overall I wanted to find a balance that helped show good physical bulk and moderate special bulk, and having a lower HP stat helped me with this. Also, low HP mons are easier to wish pass to, and overall I hoped the low HP would help keep the mon in check. He’s not a defensive behemoth, and I wanted to make him more physically bulky than specially bulky, and trying to have a higher HP would mess with this to some extent, especially with the PT/ST limits. To a lesser extent, the smaller HP helps against leech seed, and I see Ferrothorn/Mega Venusaur as potential threats against both Gyarados and CAP19—this still doesn’t make us a Ferro/Mega Venu counter by any means, however.
Hi, I want to get this out :]

FINAL SUBMISSION

70 / 65 / 105 / 125 / 95 / 106

PT: 143.514 (Good)
ST: 130.94 (Good)
PS: 105.2 (Above Average)
SS: 210.99 (FANTASTIC)
BSR: 314.0465 (Very Good)

This spread is pretty cool as it does nearly everything we want while minimizing the things we don't.

Everyone is getting their panties in a bunch over this speed issue but imo it is a terrible idea to be under 106 and therefore 101...
The way that I see it, being able to OHKO Landorus and Garchomp is only a problem because it is a distractor towards two things which CAP SHOULD be doing which is: 1. Dying to EQ and EP from the two so that M-Gyara can set up on them, and 2. (imo) running HP Fire so that Scizor can't set up on us too much and so that we can smack Ferrothorn with HP Fire

If anything, having this option is good for the opponent as it gives them less of an incentive for going for the supposed "easy kill" on CAP rather than making the "smarter play, even if it is for the wrong reason (as in, the opponent should look into the future and notice that if they kill CAP, then M-Gyara gets a free set-up turn and can easily sweep at that point).

ANYWAYS, for the reason why I chose 106 speed is obviously for M-Pinsir, and therefor M-Garde, as well as being slower than Keldeo which is necessary as Keldeo is an excellent set-up bait Pokemon for Gyarados. M-Pinsir is the reason why I decided to go through all of this drama as losing to Pinsir is a TERRIBLE choice as M-Pinsir wrecks not only M-Gyara and CAP, but also any other possible set-up sweeper that might be paired with CAP. Even though EQ is less common on M-Pinsir with the M-Mawile and Aegislash ban now, it is important to note that these M-Mawile is allowed for this playtest (Please correct me if I am wrong) and EQ will be somewhat common as a result if Pinsir is used.


70 / 105 / 95 Defenses, I will admit, is a little arbitrary. However with these Defenses we do hit a couple of defensive benchmarks which is nice. I will let the calcs do the talking.

PHYSICAL CALC:
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 113-133 (40.2 - 47.3%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 226-267 (80.4 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 128-151 (45.5 - 53.7%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 185-218 (65.8 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 211-250 (75 - 88.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 96-114 (34.1 - 40.5%) -- approx. 31.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 51-61 (18.1 - 21.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 276-325 (98.2 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+2 44+ Atk Mega Scizor Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 215-254 (76.5 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 99-117 (35.2 - 41.6%) -- 85.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 276-325 (98.2 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ampharos: 133-157 (47.3 - 55.8%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO

SPECIAL CALCS:
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ampharos: 172-203 (61.2 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ampharos: 304-359 (108.1 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Manectric Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ampharos: 62-73 (22 - 25.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery <- very little damage :]
252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ampharos: 153-180 (54.4 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
->-2 252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ampharos: 76-90 (27 - 32%) -- 49.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ampharos: 42-49 (14.9 - 17.4%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ampharos: 72-84 (25.6 - 29.8%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ampharos: 97-114 (34.5 - 40.5%) -- 55.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery <- very nice :]


125 SpA is a lot more conservative than a lot of these spreads, but i think it kind of needs to be conservative since I have a higher speed than most of the other spreads. However, you don't really need that high of a SpA as 125 accomplishes /everything/ that we need to do... I think.
65 Attack,,,,, very nice,,, we r abov average; sweeps for days,

4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe+ @ Leftovers (or @ Expert Belt or w/ SR in order to make the calcs fit .trl in the next set of calcs... jk this is enough :] )
252 SpA Ampharos Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 236-278 (85.1 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO <- you need an obscene amount of SpA to OHKO 100% of the time with no modifiers (EB / SR) so this calc is prob the worst one but a necessary one unless you want 160 / 106 Stats lol
252 SpA Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gyarados: 230-272 (69.4 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Ampharos Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Clefable: 330-390 (83.7 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-> 252 SpA Ampharos Sludge Wave vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Clefable: 218-260 (55.3 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery <- nice n clean
252 SpA Ampharos Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 196-232 (55.6 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 108 SpD Mandibuzz: 270-318 (63.8 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 314-372 (115.8 - 137.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Ampharos Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 100 SpD Mega Scizor: 232-276 (67.6 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Ampharos Sludge Wave vs. 232 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 129-153 (35.9 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO <- best case scenario = no SpD so we are not beating this :[
252 SpA Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 150-177 (54.7 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Ampharos Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 144-169 (47.3 - 55.5%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Ampharos Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Amoonguss: 181-214 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Ampharos Sludge Wave vs. 16 HP / 240 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 186-222 (53.9 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


You've seen the calcs but the truth is that this will be a very difficult Pokemon to use as we hope it will, because each battle is different and consistently being able to act as Death Fodder is a difficult. However, the breadth of Pokemon which we can "lose" to with these stats is good enough to make it more reliable than others.
--------------------

CAP19 So Far:

Concept:
Yilx said:
Name: Einherjar ~Acta Est Fabula~

Description: A Pokemon that dissuades your opponent from fainting it, or can even leave it's presence on the field felt even after it faints.

Justification: When a Pokemon faints, it's usually thought of as the battle having gotten down to a 5-6. However, we've yet to discover if a Pokemon can leave a lasting impression on the battle even after having fainted; be it through moves like Healing Wish and Destiny Bond, placing hazards that the opponent can't remove as their removal has been taken care of, or by leaving an opponent's key member weakened and/or taken out.

Questions To Be Answered:
  • How can a Pokemon leave a long-lasting effect on the rest of the battle with just it's moves?
  • How the hell is it different from simply ramming a sacrificial martyr into your opponent's team and hoping it punches holes in it?
  • Building on the previous question, is it possible to build this Pokemon as a defensive threat rather than a "Glass Cannon"?
  • Is it even possible for a Pokemon to leave a lasting effect on on the battle, even after it faints?
  • Could changing your opponent's way of thinking even be plausible? From, "I need to take CAP X out!", to, "Damn, if I take CAP X out, I'll be in trouble...!"
Type: Electric/Poison
Abilities so far: Storm Drain

Leadership Team:

Pwnemon- Topic Leader
ginganinja - Ability Leader
srk1214 - Typing Leader
alexwolf - Movepool Leader
Deck Knight - Stats Leader
 

Qwilphish

when everything you touch turns to gold
Qwilphish
capefeather
HeaLnDeaL

good spreads this time around. gl to all :]
 

Empress

33% coffee, 33% alcohol, 34% estrogen
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Qwilphish
capefeather
HeaLnDeaL

Gotta go fast.
 
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