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Scarf Sand Force Excadrill is completely inferior to Life Orb Sand Rush, since, not only can it not switch moves meaning it will easily be forced out, not only is Iron Head not boosted by Sand Force, but it's also significantly slower than Sand Rush Excadrill, meaning it'll be outsped by faster scarfers such as Landorus-T, Kyurem-B and Garchomp. Please do not use this set.
....um iron head is boosted by sand force, it boosts rock, ground, and steel moves dude.
And sand force isn't necessarily a bad ability, I mean it lets you hit a lot harder than usual. Mold breaker or sand rush is more useful in which I do agree with you there.
Looks like Game Freak made Sand Force for Excadrill, since all its attacks, except Rapid Spin, are boosted by it.
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What are the merits of Jolly Mold Breaker Scarf Excadrill?
Jolly allows one to outspeed the entire unboosted metagame (and that includes positive nature 150s; 302 x 1.5 vs 438 speed) with Deoxys-S gone. Mold Breaker largely allows one to circumvent Levitate and makes Earthquake more spammable and difficult to play around.
Perhaps it can be partner with Pokemon that can use Thunderbolt and Ice attacks to take out the Flying types that are unaffected by Earthquake.
But its power is lacking as it cannot cleanly KO Greninja with Earthquake without hazard or LO recoil damage.
252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 234-276 (81.8 - 96.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Sand force is almost useless. It's a life orb boost that's on a timer and only applies to specific moves. It should only ever be used to pump up the offensive presence of AVdrill, or used in conjuction with life orb for maximum power. If you don't use life orb in conjuction with sand force then you're simply a less powerful, not mixed version of Megachomp. Force is also wasting Excadrill's place on a dedicated sand team as a supersonic sweeper. If you really want a sandforce user you're better off running Megachomp and excadrill with rush together as a wallbreaker cleaner combo, and even that's a pretty poor idea because of how hard you're doubling up weaknesses.
Scarf Sand Force Excadrill is completely inferior to Life Orb Sand Rush, since, not only can it not switch moves meaning it will easily be forced out, not only is Iron Head not boosted by Sand Force, but it's also significantly slower than Sand Rush Excadrill, meaning it'll be outsped by faster scarfers such as Landorus-T, Kyurem-B and Garchomp. Please do not use this set.
Except it retains its speed without sand, which is more than Sand Rush can say.
Despite this it seems to be inferior to both Sand Rush as a sweeper and Mold Breaker as a Scarfer. Hilarious because Sand Force boosts basically every move Excadrill commonly uses. Sand Force Choice Band seems funny, albeit outclassed / bad.
252+ Atk Choice Band Sand Force Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon in Sand: 231-273 (55 - 65%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Sand Force Excadrill Iron Head vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor in Sand: 237-280 (67.3 - 79.5%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Sand Force burned Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame in Sand through Reflect: 238-281 (80.1 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Except it retains its speed without sand, which is more than Sand Rush can say.
Despite this it seems to be inferior to both Sand Rush as a sweeper and Mold Breaker as a Scarfer. Hilarious because Sand Force boosts basically every move Excadrill commonly uses. Sand Force Choice Band seems funny, albeit outclassed / bad.
252+ Atk Choice Band Sand Force Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon in Sand: 231-273 (55 - 65%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Sand Force Excadrill Iron Head vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor in Sand: 237-280 (67.3 - 79.5%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Sand Force burned Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame in Sand through Reflect: 238-281 (80.1 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Excadrill makes a decent choice user, whether it's band or scarf, because of his 4x stealth rock resistance. But when you're using sand force you're on a timer, and when 1 of your STABs is the poor offensive type steel, and the other is the immunity prone ground type, you'll be constantly switching in and out which is a major hassle. It's going to eat up all your sand turns. Especially since without mold breaker levitating pokemon are an ever larger hassle and provide even more opportunities to exploit your STAB.
here's an interesting topic of discussion. I can't wrap my head around why sand rush was virtually never seen on exca until like may/june. Up until then, it was mostly scarf mold breaker/sash, or air balloon mold breaker with RS. ok, I guess rotom was a good reason for this, because it was extremely common back then. But even rotom doesn't justify why there were maybe 1 sand rush excas out of 10 early on in the meta. It's truly an enigma
here's an interesting topic of discussion. I can't wrap my head around why sand rush was virtually never seen on exca until like may/june. Up until then, it was mostly scarf mold breaker/sash, or air balloon mold breaker with RS. ok, I guess rotom was a good reason for this, because it was extremely common back then. But even rotom doesn't justify why there were maybe 1 sand rush excas out of 10 early on in the meta. It's truly an enigma
I suppose people overestimated the difficulty of maintaining weather for 5 or 8 turns. Or the opportunity cost for the extra three turns of keeping Sand. Well, there are fewer rain teams on OU now so one usually does not have to compete with a rival weather (except Charizard Y).
Perhaps with Deosharp, Genesect, and Rotom-W, TTar was seen as a liability.
I always tried to make a core of a sandrush Excadrill.. Probably the dumbest thing I could have done in competitive battling. Now it just rots in my box...
Justice (Excadrill) (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 220 SDef / 32 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin
EVs look a bit weird, with Adamant and only 4 EVs in attack, but they're the leftover EVs. With max HP, 220 SDef and AV, you guarantee defensive Rotom only 3HKOs you with Hydro Pump. It even lives non-specs Rotom-H Overheats. Meanwhile you 2HKO with EQ. 32 Speed is enough to outspeed 44 Speed EV Rotoms, who run that to outspeed Jolly Azumarill. It is also bulky enough to get a rapid spin off in most cases, and works decently well as a specially defensive pokemon to take Dracos, Tbolts, Ice beams and whatnot which my other team members appreciate.
AV Exca seems very intresting to me, as he would then be able to counter one of his normal counter, Air Balloon Heatran. I've found myself saving Exca for late-game multiple times and my opponent saves his Heatran for late-game too. This makes me play more recklessy with my other pokes because I think "well Heatran is going down to EQ later". Imagine this scenario:
Exca is in against some random poke
I click EQ because everything is going to take a ton of damage from it (I don't know that the heatran got Air Balloon)
Heatran switches in and avoids the EQ
I am forced to go for Iron head (to pop the balloon) or switch out to my half-good Heatran counter (if it is still alive)
If I stay in, offensive Heatran OHKO's me.
252+ SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 408-482 (112.7 - 133.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
However...with Assault Vest: 252+ SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Excadrill: 272-324 (75.1 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It's so beautiful.
But anyhow, how important is LO for Exca? I've using it for a while and I really dig it, but are there some crucial KO's that Exca gets with LO that he doesn't w/o?
Note: All of the following threats OHKO's normal LO Exca at full health.
252+ SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Excadrill: 238-282 (65.7 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Excadrill: 304-358 (83.9 - 98.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Mega Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Excadrill: 326-384 (90 - 106%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Not many Gardevoirs run Modest thankfully:)
252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Excadrill: 248-294 (68.5 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Keldeo Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Excadrill: 270-320 (74.5 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
AV Exca seems very intresting to me, as he would then be able to counter one of his normal counter, Air Balloon Heatran. I've found myself saving Exca for late-game multiple times and my opponent saves his Heatran for late-game too. This makes me play more recklessy with my other pokes because I think "well Heatran is going down to EQ later". Imagine this scenario:
Exca is in against some random poke
I click EQ because everything is going to take a ton of damage from it (I don't know that the heatran got Air Balloon)
Heatran switches in and avoids the EQ
I am forced to go for Iron head (to pop the balloon) or switch out to my half-good Heatran counter (if it is still alive)
If I stay in, offensive Heatran OHKO's me.
252+ SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 408-482 (112.7 - 133.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
However...with Assault Vest: 252+ SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Excadrill: 272-324 (75.1 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It's so beautiful.
But anyhow, how important is LO for Exca? I've using it for a while and I really dig it, but are there some crucial KO's that Exca gets with LO that he doesn't w/o?
Note: All of the following threats OHKO's normal LO Exca at full health.
252+ SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Excadrill: 238-282 (65.7 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Excadrill: 304-358 (83.9 - 98.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Mega Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Excadrill: 326-384 (90 - 106%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Not many Gardevoirs run Modest thankfully:) 252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Excadrill: 248-294 (68.5 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Keldeo Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Excadrill: 270-320 (74.5 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
AV Exca seems very intresting to me, as he would then be able to counter one of his normal counter, Air Balloon Heatran. I've found myself saving Exca for late-game multiple times and my opponent saves his Heatran for late-game too. This makes me play more recklessy with my other pokes because I think "well Heatran is going down to EQ later". Imagine this scenario:
Exca is in against some random poke
I click EQ because everything is going to take a ton of damage from it (I don't know that the heatran got Air Balloon)
Heatran switches in and avoids the EQ
I am forced to go for Iron head (to pop the balloon) or switch out to my half-good Heatran counter (if it is still alive)
If I stay in, offensive Heatran OHKO's me.
252+ SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 408-482 (112.7 - 133.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
However...with Assault Vest: 252+ SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Excadrill: 272-324 (75.1 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It's so beautiful.
But anyhow, how important is LO for Exca? I've using it for a while and I really dig it, but are there some crucial KO's that Exca gets with LO that he doesn't w/o?
Note: All of the following threats OHKO's normal LO Exca at full health.
252+ SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Excadrill: 238-282 (65.7 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Excadrill: 304-358 (83.9 - 98.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Mega Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Excadrill: 326-384 (90 - 106%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Not many Gardevoirs run Modest thankfully:) 252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Excadrill: 248-294 (68.5 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Keldeo Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Excadrill: 270-320 (74.5 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Except Air Baloon Heatran runs Fire Blast, so the the calc looks more like this :
252 SpA Heatran Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Excadrill: 342-404 (94.4 - 111.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
As for whether or not AV is viable on Sand Rush Excadrill as a whole, I really would't think so given that you'd usually much rather have LO's extra damage, not just on Lando-T as mentioned but also stuff like Gliscor, Sableye and Latis (don't have the calcs right now but I'm pretty sure LO really matters vs these Pokemon and many more), or Air Baloon which enanles you to not be checked by Ground types, particularly opposing Excadrill, as easily.
If you want to run a specially bulky Excadrill set I would stick with SpD Mold Breaker with either Toxic or SR and Leftovers.
Thanks guys :) I'm convinced now that going with LO over AV is the better choice (as Exca probably has already taken some damage those 2HKOs becomes 1HKOs) for that extra oomph in his damage output! Having lando live would be chaotic for my team lol
I personally like to run the choice scarf set on my Excadrill. Totally interrupts a team's sweep sometimes. If I'm correct I think it out speeds a plus 1 Mega Charizard X and OHKO's with an Earthquake. Also for those pesky Clefable's a couple Iron Heads to the face IMMEDIATELY with hopes for a flinch before they can set up a Cosmic Power or two you should be okay!
I personally like to run the choice scarf set on my Excadrill. Totally interrupts a team's sweep sometimes. If I'm correct I think it out speeds a plus 1 Mega Charizard X and OHKO's with an Earthquake. Also for those pesky Clefable's a couple Iron Heads to the face IMMEDIATELY with hopes for a flinch before they can set up a Cosmic Power or two you should be okay!
+1 Charizard always outspeeds and you need to be locked into Earthquake for that to work if it comes in after you kill something. As for Clefable, Scarf literally does nothing for you as you already outspeed, plus Cosmic Power is bad.
I personally like to run the choice scarf set on my Excadrill. Totally interrupts a team's sweep sometimes. If I'm correct I think it out speeds a plus 1 Mega Charizard X and OHKO's with an Earthquake. Also for those pesky Clefable's a couple Iron Heads to the face IMMEDIATELY with hopes for a flinch before they can set up a Cosmic Power or two you should be okay!
To be more specific, Scarf Excadrill is slower than Jolly Mega Charizard X after a Dragon Dance. Excadrill only outspeeds the older Adamant builds at +1, which are less popular these days because of Lando-T's popularity and the fact that the Jolly set can beat Scarf Landorus-T if Lando-T switches into DD. Just something to keep in mind when you send out your Excadrill on Charizard (that and the minute you do that, they'll know it's scarfed).
Also, 2 things: 1) Cosmic Power Clefable is not really relevant; it's a bad set that no one should ever use (and I can probably link you to about 3 posts that support this if you disagree), and 2) Any situation where you're praying for a flinch chance and you don't have Serene Grace is a situation that should be avoided altogether.
To be more specific, Scarf Excadrill is slower than Jolly Mega Charizard X after a Dragon Dance. Excadrill only outspeeds the older Adamant builds at +1, which are less popular these days because of Lando-T's popularity and the fact that the Jolly set can beat Scarf Landorus-T if Lando-T switches into DD. Just something to keep in mind when you send out your Excadrill on Charizard (that and the minute you do that, they'll know it's scarfed).
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220 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 271-321 (84.9 - 100.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
The idea is that since you outspeed after a Dragon Dance, you now have a good chance to OHKO it after Rocks if it comes in on a DD.
I also don't know how you can get a surprise KO with Scarf Excadrill since it's only ever used when you have neither Tyranitar nor Hippowdon and half the things you bring it out on are normally faster and can OHKO it, but whatever.
220 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 271-321 (84.9 - 100.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
The idea is that since you outspeed after a Dragon Dance, you now have a good chance to OHKO it after Rocks if it comes in on a DD.
I also don't know how you can get a surprise KO with Scarf Excadrill since it's only ever used when you have neither Tyranitar nor Hippowdon and half the things you bring it out on are normally faster and can OHKO it, but whatever.
And yes the second you throw out excadrill against a faster opponent then the opponent will know that it is scarfed and then the predictions/ counter play get pulled in. However when something switches into an excadrill thinking it is faster or you sack a mon and show you are trying to give up and then KO, then it could work. However I am not saying it is great, it has many drawbacks, just pointing out it could get some needed KO's.
