Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V3) (Rank changes are over until ORAS)

[Flarowak]

mb.
So, I really think Greninja should be demoted. Your guys thoughts? Ill put in why in a sec; 2 laz

Completely disagree about Greninja. Easily one of the best special attackers in the meta. Hits way harder than you would think thanks to protean, in a great speed tier, has access to priority (isn't common, but it can be effective if used properly), has a good enough move pool to not know exactly what to expect from it. This mon is the reason so many special attackers (like starmie or Alakazam) are no where near as viable as they used to be last gen. I don't see him ever leaving A+ tbh.

 

[Gloating]

Well Diancie does have the niche of being a Trick Room setter, having SR and nice resistances as Alexwolf has pointed out before but idk if that's enough to keep it ranked. Manaphy deserves to move up as it's great against sand and stall and it's Calm Mind set is more consistent than Suicune from my experience and not to mention more power because of Rain Dance and that's only one of it's 3 sets.

 

[unit976]

So continuing off the last thread's discussion, in my opinion Charizard-Y requires too much support for doing the exact same thing that other pokes do without said support. Mega Medicham doesn't need SR removed. Meda Medicham doesn't Pursuit support. Mega Medicham has access to priority. Those points, minus the priority bit also go for Mega Gardevoir. I wouldn't mind Char Y in A cause it's so 1 dimensional yet it doesn't totally exceed in its role.

every time I see this post I cry, their are only 2 fire type ou special attackes one being heatran, and zard y nothing else sets up sun to counter sand offense, other than ninetails which if you want to use then....it always does the same thing but it does it really well. but yes I see where you are coming from for it being A rank.

 

[Synchronation]

mb.
So, I really think Greninja should be demoted. Your guys thoughts? Ill put in why in a sec; 2 laz

I already talked about Greninja in v2 of this thread. I would nominate it for S-Rank if it had usable physical sets. Greninja is still one of the best non-mega cleaners in the game with a huge special movepool. Dark Pulse for Mew and Slowbro (both are getting very famous lately), HP Grass for Rotom-W and Azumarill, Grass Knot for Mega-Gyarados and Suicune, Extrasensory for Venusaur, HP Fire for Ferrothorn and Scizor, U-Turn for getting momentum. This Pokemon can literally do whatever it wants and is FAR AWAY from being a A-Rank Pokemon. Keep it in A+.

If new move tutors give him nice physical attacks (Knock Off, elementary punches and more), I can see it moving up to S. But that has to wait.

 

[Celticpride]

Back on topic:
Chansey: A- ---> B+, Skarmory: A- ---> B+: I agree with both of these. Being passive is just not as good anymore. SkarmBliss (SkarmChan sounds awful) has been supplanted by other more offensive stall cores like VenuTran and by other more offensive stall mons like Slowbro. They should both move down. Agree with this.
Slowbro: A- ---> A: On the other hand, this is the new Stall king. Very effective at dealing with the rebirth of Fighting spam. Also, Scald is very threatening to every physical attacker outside of Char-X. Agree with this.
Mega Aerodactyl: B+ ---> A-: I've talked about this at least twice, maybe more. I might sum up and make a long post later but I agree with this.
Hydreigon: C+ ---> C: Being good at everything and excellent at nothing isn't the recipe for success in OU. Fairies were the final nail in the coffin, screwing his otherwise great STAB coverage. It should move down sadly.
Cresselia: C+ ---> B-: Walls several relevant threats. Being a good answer to Landy-I and Mega Medi alone merit it moving up but it has other uses outside dealing with those two.
Thundurus-T: C+ ---> C: Should move down, only really has a role on Rain teams, that role being absorbing Electric attacks and unleashing very powerful Thunders. Very niche even on Rain teams. Double dancing doesn't really work anymore either with all the priority running around. To C he is banished.

 

[Salemance]

Back on topic:
Chansey: A- ---> B+, Skarmory: A- ---> B+: I agree with both of these. Being passive is just not as good anymore. SkarmBliss (SkarmChan sounds awful) has been supplanted by other more offensive stall cores like VenuTran and by other more offensive stall mons like Slowbro. They should both move down. Agree with this.
Slowbro: A- ---> A: On the other hand, this is the new Stall king. Very effective at dealing with the rebirth of Fighting spam. Also, Scald is very threatening to every physical attacker outside of Char-X. Agree with this.
Mega Aerodactyl: B+ ---> A-: I've talked about this at least twice, maybe more. I might sum up and make a long post later but I agree with this.
Hydreigon: C+ ---> C: Being good at everything and excellent at nothing isn't the recipe for success in OU. Fairies were the final nail in the coffin, screwing his otherwise great STAB coverage. It should move down sadly.
Cresselia: C+ ---> B-: Walls several relevant threats. Being a good answer to Landy-I and Mega Medi alone merit it moving up but it has other uses outside dealing with those two.
Thundurus-T: C+ ---> C: Should move down, only really has a role on Rain teams, that role being absorbing Electric attacks and unleashing very powerful Thunders. Very niche even on Rain teams. Double dancing doesn't really work anymore either with all the priority running around. To C he is banished.

I only am gonna talk bout Thundy-T nom there.

With all the other mons in C (not C+) ranking, I see Alakazam, Chandelure, Mega Toise (god bless his soul) and Rotom-H. With the purpose of ranking them, we like to rank them near mons that are near similar ranking at the least, but I see how Thundy-T is as limiting as a few of those mons even if it has the opportunity cost of not running Thundy-T, one of the best mons in the current meta. I feel as if he fits right at home in C+ tier, as compared to other limiting mons (not able to run a better mega, use this wallbreaker over that one). He has an effective Double Dance set, can hit for a shit ton of damage, a passable speed tier by beating the 100 crowd (and tying with Lando-I), and is able to effortlessly switch in to the electric spammers while healing itself in the process. He fits right alongside some of the current mons who are not being discussed of being moved up/down as in Meggron, a limited but amazing physical attack absorber, Togekiss, great dragon absorber who is immune to Gar's dual STABs, and Absol Mega who is a powerful, fast mixed attacker but frailer than a marshmallow. Thundy-T has its issues yes, but that's why its not up higher. Its not much of a change, but I still feel as if Thundy-T should reside in the top end of the C ranks in C+ and not C.

 

[Magcargo]

alexwolf can we please remove D-Rank and make C-Rank one huge rank (no + or -) like UU did? Barely anyone uses anything below B- Rank, so it can be fairly difficult to find a reasonable ranking for the mons in C-rank and below since no one has proper experience with them. Besides that, most of the mons in D-Rank and C-Rank clutter the thread and steer discussion away from more important Pokemon, when a majority of them are irrelevant mons with an extremely tiny niche. I believe that removing D-Rank and making C-Rank one huge rank will increase the quality and focus of the discussions in this thread.

 

[trc]

No that's bad lol

 

[Aragorn the King]

alexwolf can we please remove D-Rank and make C-Rank one huge rank (no + or -) like UU did? Barely anyone uses anything below B- Rank, so it can be fairly difficult to find a reasonable ranking for the mons in C-rank and below since no one has proper experience with them. Besides that, most of the mons in D-Rank and C-Rank clutter the thread and steer discussion away from more important Pokemon, when a majority of them are irrelevant mons with an extremely tiny niche. I believe that removing D-Rank and making C-Rank one huge rank will increase the quality and focus of the discussions in this thread.

I think UU's removal of the D rank was more of a problem with UU's old list. They had stuff ranked in D that was totally unviable, like Leavanny and Dusclops, while in our D rank, we have stuff worth using on select teams, like Granbull and Tentacruel. I also don't agree with the removal of the C ranks subtiers, because some stuff is borderline B, like Togekiss, but is slightly too niche, while some stuff is like Venomoth: very niche but not at the level of D rank. I think tiering them differently makes sense to show the different levels of their viability. Also, saying they detract from the conversation at hand is slightly misleading imo, since the upper ranks are about perfect now, while things in D/C/B- are much more inaccurately represented, and so need more discussion.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Thing is, this isn't UU. Down in UU, the decision to cluster C Rank into one rank and remove D Rank was justified because down there the niche mons are all equally usable, and there isn't anything down in UU that could be considered D Rank worthy down there. But here in OU, it's different. It's reasonable here to split the C Rank because there are different levels of viability for many of the "Niche Pokemon" in OU. The mons in C+ Rank all have definable, solid niches in the tier and although not many people use the C Rank mons, I would definitely occasionally consider the C+ mons for a team if the need arises. The C Rank mons are not that usable and are very niche, and I wouldn't as much consider them for a team as with the C+ mons, but they have a workable niche or two. The C- mons, I personally would rarely use, but they have a definite niche in OU so they are in fact viable. D Rank being here is justified, since there are a few mons that truly deserve to be there and although most of the D mons suck, the odd serious team might want to consider them because they do have a niche, albeit a very small one.

All in all, the lower ranks deserve to be maintained the way they are. The Niche Pokemon in OU all have different levels of viability to dividing C Rank is justified, and D Rank can stay because the mons in there are definitely viable enough to be on the list, even if their niche is small.

 

[Aragorn the King]

So, i after checking out Sharpteeth's toxicroak on the victory road thread, and then playtesting it, I really, really think it should be ranked. Its incredibly anti-meta at the moment. It works as a great azumarill/non hp flying keldeo check, and stops crocune dead in it's tracks. It also has ice punch, which makes limits the amount of times landot can switch in to about 2, maybe even not at all, depending on the lando t set. as an example of how good it is, especially with STAB gunk shot at it's disposal.
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur: 152-179 (41.7 - 49.1%) -- Does almost half to the most physically defensive Mega Venu available, any sort of S.Def or Spe investment will get it killed.
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 253-300 (78 - 92.5%) -- KO's after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 265-313 (82 - 96.9%) -- Easily forced out if locked into a water move
252+ Atk Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 450-530 (111.3 - 131.1%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 429-507 (108.8 - 128.6%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 283-338 (71.8 - 85.7%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. +2 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 218-257 (55.3 - 65.2%) -- You can still win against Clefable even after a Cosmic Power
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 160-188 (39.6 - 46.5%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 169-200 (39.8 - 47.1%) -- Finish it with ice punch
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 253-300 (61.1 - 72.4%) -- Gunk Shot + Drain Punch to KO.
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 292-344 (96.6 - 113.9%) -- Can't come in.
(Thanks for the calcs sharpteeth!)

It forces quite a few switches on a lot of commonly used weak to ice or fighting pokemon like heatran, sand rush excadrill outside of sand, the blobs, and azumarill and keldeo especially, and combining that with the raw power of gunk shot, not much gets to switch in, especially with sucker punch coming right at them afterwords. Sucker punch also works well for getting revenge kills, and with gunk shot's 30% chance to poison, even stuff like hippowdon can risk being crippled. Its one of the only pokemon that checks: Mega Venu, Azumarill, conkeldurr (ehh, not used so much), Keldeo, ferrothorn and ttar in a single team slot. Great antimeta mon, def should be considered for ranking.

It's already C-, and thanks to its attributes (checking water types + clefable + loving the rain) i think it fits there perfectly.

 

[magic123]

First,

Tentacruel D-->C-/C

I have been using Tentacruel lately and I have been very impressed by it.I think the most underrated thing about this pokemon is the number of things it can check.Rapid spin is not the only reason to use the thing.From experience,I say it can reliably check Mega Scizor,Mega Zard Y,Keldeo,SpDef Heatrans,Conkeldurr and,through the use of Liquid Ooze(a VERY underrated ability) flat-out counter Mega Venusaur(with sleep clause activated or it is without sleep powder,it can burn with scald,leech seed damages itself,giga drain damages itself),Ferrothorn (it can spin hazards away,burn with scald,leech seed damages itself),Azumarill,Clefable(CM or not),and Sylveon.It can also take on Tyraitar,Bisharp or Gengar given the correct circumstances,not to mention make Skarmory's life miserable by burning it and taking away it's hazards,make a decent check to rain,and check obscure things like Omastar,Cloyster,Entei,and Amoongus(once sleep clause is activated).It,with 16 Speed Evs,can outspeed standard Landorus-T,standard Rotom,adamant Breloom,adamant Bisharp,modest Heatran,and Jolly Tyranitar.All this while providing rapid spin support.A set of Scald/Sludge Bomb/Rapid Spin/Protect with 252 Hp/ 240 Def+/16 Spe does all of this.

Garstrodon C- --> C/C+

I'm sorry I am too lazy to write why I agree with this,but check post #754 for the reason why.In a nutshell,a physically defensive set checks top threats like Bisharp,Tyranitar,Keldeo,Scizor,and completely tortures Rotom-W,makes a pretty good check to rain and also handles electric types like Thundurus,Mega-Manectric and Thundurus-T(not that anyone uses it) efficiently.

 

[alexwolf]

alexwolf can we please remove D-Rank and make C-Rank one huge rank (no + or -) like UU did? Barely anyone uses anything below B- Rank, so it can be fairly difficult to find a reasonable ranking for the mons in C-rank and below since no one has proper experience with them. Besides that, most of the mons in D-Rank and C-Rank clutter the thread and steer discussion away from more important Pokemon, when a majority of them are irrelevant mons with an extremely tiny niche. I believe that removing D-Rank and making C-Rank one huge rank will increase the quality and focus of the discussions in this thread.

No.

 

[Andrew]

Slowbro definitely needs to rise to A. He's a mon that just doesn't die and imo is better than skarmory, hippo, and amoongus atm. He walls Medicham and almost every other phsyical attacker and can paralyze or toxic them and also damage them with Scald including that burn chance as well as psyshock/ice beam/fire blast...not much else to say but this guy is really good. I would consider slowbro on almost any semi stall/balance team.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

God damn it, why do you guys keep saying Hydreigon should drop because of Fairy-types??? Should Talonflame drop because of Rock-types? Should Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor drop because of Fire-types?

Hydreigon should stay C+ where it belongs. Hydreigon's main problem is NOT Fairy-types. It can lure them and OHKO/2HKO with Specs Flash Cannon if it really wants to. However, while I can even see Hydreigon in B-, I don't think it should be higher because there are simply better options in this metagame.

1) Special Hydreigon is usually outclassed by Lati@s, who are faster, have access to Defog and Memento/Healing Wish and the ability to go "mixed" with Psyshock. However, Hydreigon does have a few advantages: Fire Blast, allowing it to get past Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor much easier, Focus Blast to OHKO Tyranitar and Bisharp, and a resistance to Pursuit, Sucker Punch and Knock Off.

2) Choice Scarf Hydreigon is outclassed by other, more powerful revenge killers such as Choice Scarf Terrakion, Garchomp and Keldeo.

3) Mixed Hydreigon is kinda outdone by Kyurem-B and Mega Garchomp, but do note that Hydreigon is faster, is not weak to Stealth Rock and has access to Fire Blast and Superpower.

Hydreigon's 98 speed also lets it down because too many things outspeed it, including Lati@s, Gengar, Keldeo, Terrakion, Weavile, Tornadus-T and Greninja.

That said, Hydreigon is really good against stall, especially if Chansey is gone/eliminated, as nothing else really likes stomaching a Draco Meteor and those who do have to face its coverage moves. Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Chesnaught and Amoonguss are OHKOed by Fire Blast, Heatran can only wall Hydreigon if it lacks Earthquake, Quagsire and Slowbro are flat out OHKOed, Rhyperior is 2HKOed by Dark Pulse and Mandibuzz takes about 70%. Also, Hydreigon will usually get one kill per game even against offense, due to its coverage and great attacking stats for a non-mega, or it can scout with U-turn if it suspects a Fairy-type switching in.

But you guys keep mentioning its fairy weakness without addressing the big part. -_- Hydreigon is extremely hard to stop in the hands of a good player and is really underrated.

Keep Hydreigon C+.

 

[craing ;_;]

going to nominate hawlucha for B rank.This mon is literally the definition of a late-game sweeper. while it does need its fair share of team support, all it needs is 1 sd and activating its unburden in order to sweep your entire team. with sub sd, it can set up on the likes of alomomola and mew while at the same time safely activating its speed boost by just subbing down. sub also protects it from stray priority mons that would be trying to hinder your sweep. having unresisted stabs(sides thund and zap) is just icing on the cake since there's literally nothing on offense that can take a hit from it at +2, let alone outspeed it(yeah fk dos weather aboosers >:(!). memento latios makes for an excellent offensive partner as it offers leverage in order to utterly demolish the opposition. other than that, hawlucha appreciates a team that can hold its own while simultaneously weakening its checks and counters so that it can do its job more effectively. its pros without a doubt outweigh its cons and B rank should suit it just fine.

on an unrelated note, does anyone else find it odd that regular scizor is still B rank? mega scizor outclasses it by far and it doesn't really have a place in ou. i'm basing this off my own experience since i never really see it in standard play and for good reason. i would consider dropping it a few ranks but maybe that's just me.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

B rank is too high for Hawlucha, especially if it needs dual screen support or Memento Latios as a partner. It doesn't hit hard enough, priority users are freaking everywhere and stall can handle it just fine with Pokemon such as Skarmory.

 

[Synchronation]

on an unrelated note, does anyone else find it odd that regular scizor is still B rank? mega scizor outclasses it by far and it doesn't really have a place in ou. i'm basing this off my own experience since i never really see it in standard play and for good reason. i would consider dropping it a few ranks but maybe that's just me.

Scizor's LO-set is actually stronger than Mega-Scizor which is the main reason I think it should stay at B (or maybe B-?). While Mega-Scizor doesn't have recoil, it uses the Mega-slot. LO-Scizor does more damage and you are able to use another Mega-Pokemon without sacrificing too much.

Of course there are CB-Scizors too which are excellent revenge-killers thanks to its incredible strong Bullet-Punch, strong Pursuit-trapper and nice U-Turn.

 

[craing ;_;]

B rank is too high for Hawlucha, especially if it needs dual screen support or Memento Latios as a partner. It doesn't hit hard enough, priority users are freaking everywhere and stall can handle it just fine with Pokemon such as Skarmory.

its high base power moves make up for its lack of pwr, same case with talon and it has unparalleled sweeping potential. if you read my post more carefully then you would notice that its designed as a late game sweeper where its the part of the game in which most priority users would be dead by now(team support) and it has sub to avoid at least 1 deadly priority atk. just because a mon can't beat stall doesn't mean that others can't lol. its like you are saying mega hera can't beat offense because its too slow. you can try pairing it up with a pwrful stallbreaker in say mega gard or something. if you didn't know, stall itself isn't that effective as a playstyle in this current meta so lucha doesn't really have to concern itself with that. its more effective because of these changes in the meta and as such, its viability will follow suit. if you want to make a better point using the stall argument, quagsire would make a better switch-in than skarm since its not 2hkod and can't be set up on unlike skarm without taking huge dmg.

+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 210-247 (63 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 148-175 (37.5 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Scizor's LO-set is actually stronger than Mega-Scizor which is the main reason I think it should stay at B (or maybe B-?). While Mega-Scizor doesn't have recoil, it uses the Mega-slot. LO-Scizor does more damage and you are able to use another Mega-Pokemon without sacrificing too much.

Of course there are CB-Scizors too which are excellent revenge-killers thanks to its incredible strong Bullet-Punch, strong Pursuit-trapper and nice U-Turn.

fair point, i was just inquiring other people's opinion on scizor's status, but i do agree dropping it to at least B- or so, unless someone convinces me otherwise. do keep in mind that its just not pwr but its also an effective pivot that can fill the role as the "steel" type of the team which is sought after since mawile and aegislash are banned. sorry i'm new so i'm trying to make the distinction between viability and actual usage x_x.

 

[Numera]

Time to give my say on some of this. I'll only mention what I haven't already.

Slowbro: A- ---> A: Slowbro is a godsend for stall and all, being a bulky water that walls most Mega Medicham, but there IS a problem I have with it. At times, due to the existence of TPunch Mega Medicham, it might not even be able to wall ONE of the Mega Wallbreakers. That being said, Slowbro is bulky, has Regenerator (that ability is literal god on a defensive Pokemon) and does indeed get access to moves like Scald that prevent it from being passive. Yeah, this is quite easy for me, Slowbro for A.

Hydreigon: C+ ---> C: Hydreigon is indeed losing viability. It's a jack off most trades and a master of none. It can pull of Specs, Mixed, Scarfed, ect. However, this isn't going to keep it in C+. Yes, it damages stall fairly well. But regardless, Hydreigon faces competition from other dragons in all of it's roles. And the worst part is, Hydreigon is weaker to fairy then any of the other dragons. There are better ways to remove stall without taking up a Mega slot especially seeing how good Clefable is on that playstyle and how hard it is to even fit Flash Cannon/Iron Tail on it. Hydreigon for C.

Cresselia: C+ ---> B-: Speaking of good mons for stall, Cresselia is able to do a number to a fair few of the new threats to stall (as long as MGarde lacks taunt). Walling Landorus on a stall team is nice enough, but also being able to ruin Mega Medicham with it's reflect set and hard walling any Mega Gardevoir without taunt is just awesome for a stall team. There's also quite a few other Pokemon in the metagame Cresselia can wall, which is good, as Stall aims to beat the entire OU metagame (at least most of it) with 6 Pokemon. No brainer, Cresselia for B-.


Garstrodon C- --> C: Gastrodon is outclassed as a bulky water, but what sets it apart is it's ability to easily deal with all rain teams with that lovely resistance to rock and complete immunity to water. That and it only has 1 weakness in grass and you've got yourself something that does indeed have a nice niche if you lack a bulky water and need to counter rain. Also, if fits well with Pokemon like Rotom-H in C rank as a Pokemon that is outclassed, but combines roles from other Pokemon to give itself a niche over what outclasses it. Gastrodon for C.

 

[Jukain]

want a few mons unranked like right now.

rotom-h: rotom-h's niche is long gone. it handled genesect and mawile, those are banned. the main issue is just that it's outclassed by rotom-w. it does boast a neat pool of resistances (to electric and grass which rotom-w lacks), allowing it to check a few different threats, but it becomes weak to rock and water. this means it's weak to rocks, which destroys its abilities as a pivot and means it can't deal with cb talonflame consistently enough, it can't beat azumarill, it can't beat landorus-t, it can't beat sand excadrill... it's pretty much impossible to justify rotom-h on a team because despite having a different pool of resistances/weaknesses, rotom-w or a better defensive fire-type such as heatran is pretty much always infinitely better. completely outclassed, practically no reason to use on an ou team, unranked.

hydreigon: this pokemon is just shit which aegislash gone. the whole point was an aegislash check as well as a nice way of checking mega mawile with lo fire blast and not being koed by +2 sucker punch, but that niche is gone. pretty much the reason that it's unviable is just how good the latis are. hydreigon is slow, too slow. hydreigon doesn't have the defensive typing to beat land or keld or zard y, or really much of anything. it's screwed by clefable even more, and screwed by av azumarill much more. sure it can 'wall/stallbreak' except for the fact that clefable exists (the steel moves are shitty options). it doesn't defog, it doesn't healing wish, it doesn't do any of that. it's just a pretty good wallbreaker, and one fucked up by clefable at that, in a metagame where the latis are ridiculously dominant. completely eclipsed, unranked.

diancie: i really hope i don't have to explain why this terrible, the only reason to use it is as a dumb tr lead which isn't enough to rank it, lol.

umbreon: garbage. it gives free switch-ins to terrakion and keldeo, nice. it's passive as shit, it's fucked up by fairies, it doesn't really wall that much...need i really say more? no one uses this on a serious ou team, unranked.

zygarde: this pokemon is terrible. it's supposed to sweep but when is it sweeping any competent team? never. almost dead weight against offense because although it can tank some hits, it's too weak to do much back, dead weight against pretty much every team with a clefable too and fucked by fairies in general. zygarde is outclassed and has a complete inability to sweep competently in the ou metagame. unranked.

 

[The Manifold Curiosity]

I would like to nominate Umbreon for C with the possibility of C+ in the future. I have been using him in all my OU teams for a good number of months now and it has always pulled its weight. I have been using the wish, protect, foul play and toxic set. However I have split the EV's to make him a mixed wall ( 252 hp, 128 def, 128 sdef bold nature) and it works wonders. Umbreon can take down the Tyranitar (normal and Mega)/Hippowdon + Excadrill set easily by poisoning the sand inducer and then using foul play on drill which takes 80% off his health (earthquake 2KO's Umbreon). This EV spread does not lack in tanking sdef either. It can just about survive a Mega-Gardevoir hyper voice at max health, which i have used to toxic her before he dies.

Honestly I see Umbreon as good as Sylveon (hence the thought of C+) and I use both of them on my team as a defensive core that can pass wishes and deal out solid damage each. They both had a good resistance to most of the main meta treats (except Mega-Maw who is now gone). Umbreon is so good at taking down fragile physical and special treats like Tallonflame (check), Landorus T (solid check), Gengar (check) Lati@s (check), Greninja (counter), mamoswine (check), Mega-Manetric, (check, often counter) and so on. It can also beat 1 on 1 Garchomp and Dragonite.

Honestly Umbreon is very viable and underrated in OU (it also does fine in Ubers tanking hits but that's another story). The reason Umbreon is so lowly ranked is cause everyone is using him wrong, make him a mixed wall and he can take on many offensive and defensive OU staples.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-161102204

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-161377823

Go to the end of the match where Umbreon beats Latios and Mega Garchomp at +2 using earthquake. The second replay shows Umbreon wining the match for me. Note that using my EV spread a critical hit earthquake from Exadrill only does 56%. Dropping this guy from the viability rankings as people are suggesting is just plain wrong.

 

[alexwolf]

Update time

Whimsicott: Unranked ---> D
Mienshao: Unranked ---> C
Jellicent: Unranked ---> D
Cresselia: C+ ---> B-
Slowbro: A- ---> A
Gastrodon: C- ---> C
Hydreigon: C+ ---> C
Thundurus-T: C+ ---> C
Manaphy: B+ ---> A-
Mega Aerodactyl: B+ ---> A-
Mega Alakazam: B+ ---> A-
Umbreon: C- ---> D
Hawlucha: B- ---> B
Chansey: Stays in A-
Skarmory: Stays in A-
Crawdaunt: Stays in C+

I will explain only the changes that not everyone agreed about or didn't get much discussion.

Jellicent was added to D rank because it has a niche as a spinblocker on Spikes stacking defensive teams and a reliable counter to Keldeo. However, it has a ton of flaws, such as huge Pursuit weakness, mediocre bulk, weakness to many common threats, and competition with other bulky Water-types, which is why it didn't go any higher.

Manaphy was moved to A- because its TG + RD set is very effective atm, being able to shred stall teams to pieces and annoy the fuck out of sand teams, removing their sand and threatening everything they commonly carry outside of Ferrothorn, which is easily trapped and KOed by Magnezone. In general because Manaphy's usage dropped over the last months, people have stopped preparing for it, which made it more effective. Even a simple TG + Wacan Berry can often get 2 KOes against bulky offensive teams.

Chansey stayed in A- because it's superior to the rest of the defensive Pokemon found in B+, such as Alomomola, Mandibuzz, and Quagsire, because it handles a much bigger array of threats. Yes it's passive, but so are Quagsire and Alomomola to a degree. Of course one could argue that Quagsire and Alomomola should be dropped to B rank, which is definitely a possibility, but before this happens i can't see those Pokemon in the same rank as Chansey.

Skarmory also stayed in A- because people seem to think that it is useless with Magnezone getting so popular, instead of just equipping it with Shed Shell. Skarmory still handles many threatening offensive Pokemon, such as Excadrill, Dragonite, Landorus-T, Mega Gyarados, Mega Pinsir, Mamoswine, Diggersby, Mega Tyranitar, and Mega Scizor, and unlike Chansey it's a much better team player and is less passive, thanks to access to Defog, Spikes, and Whirlwind, all of which Chansey lacks. Spikes are often overlooked but they have started becoming a very useful option on defensive teams, allowing them to better combat opposing stall teams and put more pressure on offensive teams, instead of just playing passive all the time. Even though Skarmory doesn't wall that much atm and is easy to trap and KO with Magnezone, it makes up for it with its ability to support its team, and Magnezone can be dealt with by Shed Shell, as long as you are careful and don't bring it mindlessly into Knock Off users.

Umbreon dropped because with Aegislash gone it lost the biggest reason to use it. I may remove it completely from the list in the future but i first want to see what you guys think.

And that's it... I don't really have anything specific in mind for you guys to talk about and the list seems pretty solid in general, so just talk about whatever you want.

EDIT: Didn't see Jukain's post, seems like a good few nominations for discussion.

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

ok, since we can talk about whatever we want

-> C-

Salamence is quite honestly not bad itself. Just ferociously outclassed, and even then can find its way on to some dragmag teams because of its great cleaning capabilities. The only set it should be running in this meta is Choice Scarf, since it faces the least competition and actually has some advantages over its competition. Garchomp is almost always the superior choice for a Dragon- type scarfer, but Salamence can fill in that spot if you need Garchomp for something else on your team(there is actually quite a lot Garchomp can do) and they even form a good double dragon core. And when we look at C- rank, we have Haxorus, a similarly niche Dragon- type. I think they are on par, and Salamence quite honestly isn't as horrendous as the rest of D rank.

also i should post a replay showcasing what it can do
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-160525110
(ik its not azu offense but i mean mence was da real mvp, not even against a shit player)

 

[alexwolf]

want a few mons unranked like right now.

rotom-h: rotom-h's niche is long gone. it handled genesect and mawile, those are banned. the main issue is just that it's outclassed by rotom-w. it does boast a neat pool of resistances (to electric and grass which rotom-w lacks), allowing it to check a few different threats, but it becomes weak to rock and water. this means it's weak to rocks, which destroys its abilities as a pivot and means it can't deal with cb talonflame consistently enough, it can't beat azumarill, it can't beat landorus-t, it can't beat sand excadrill... it's pretty much impossible to justify rotom-h on a team because despite having a different pool of resistances/weaknesses, rotom-w or a better defensive fire-type such as heatran is pretty much always infinitely better. completely outclassed, practically no reason to use on an ou team, unranked.

hydreigon: this pokemon is just shit which aegislash gone. the whole point was an aegislash check as well as a nice way of checking mega mawile with lo fire blast and not being koed by +2 sucker punch, but that niche is gone. pretty much the reason that it's unviable is just how good the latis are. hydreigon is slow, too slow. hydreigon doesn't have the defensive typing to beat land or keld or zard y, or really much of anything. it's screwed by clefable even more, and screwed by av azumarill much more. sure it can 'wall/stallbreak' except for the fact that clefable exists (the steel moves are shitty options). it doesn't defog, it doesn't healing wish, it doesn't do any of that. it's just a pretty good wallbreaker, and one fucked up by clefable at that, in a metagame where the latis are ridiculously dominant. completely eclipsed, unranked.

diancie: i really hope i don't have to explain why this terrible, the only reason to use it is as a dumb tr lead which isn't enough to rank it, lol.

umbreon: garbage. it gives free switch-ins to terrakion and keldeo, nice. it's passive as shit, it's fucked up by fairies, it doesn't really wall that much...need i really say more? no one uses this on a serious ou team, unranked.

zygarde: this pokemon is terrible. it's supposed to sweep but when is it sweeping any competent team? never. almost dead weight against offense because although it can tank some hits, it's too weak to do much back, dead weight against pretty much every team with a clefable too and fucked by fairies in general. zygarde is outclassed and has a complete inability to sweep competently in the ou metagame. unranked.

Rotom-H is able to check a few key threats that Rotom-W can't, namely Thundurus, Mega Charizard Y, Mega Venusaur, Mega Manectric, Amoonguss, and Magnezone. Mega Charizard Y and Thundurus are the most important of those, because a lot of teams lack safe switch-ins to them, so i believe Rotom-H deserves to be ranked despite being mostly outclassed by Rotom-W. However, i agree that it should drop lower, C- or D are better ranks for it.

I agree with Hydreigon being pretty shitty, as it lost its main defensive uses, namely checking Aegislash and being able to revenge kill +2 Mega Mawile. That said, i am hesitant about removing it completely because it does have some notable advantages over Latios and Latias, namely the ability to destroy and not give a fuck about Bisharp and Tyranitar, the ability to get past Chansey much easier, and in general it's wider coverage make it a bit harder to wall than Lati@s. Dark Pulse / DM / Superpower / Flash Cannon handle most relevant targets pretty well, outside of Azumarill, so it's not like it's easy to wall. It should definitely drop to C- / D though.

Diancie is great on TR teams, and as niche as Exploud all in all. Unlike Bronzong, it's not weak to Talonflame, which is huge for TR teams, and is much harder to OHKO thanks to its better bulk, making it a more consistent lead than Bronzong. It's fine in C-.

I agree about Umbreon, which is why i moved it down.

You are being unfair to Zygarde. It can be EVed to 2HKO physically defensive Clefable at +2 while Clefable can't even 2HKO back, which means that Zygarde wins. It has amazing bulk and status protection with Sub, which means that only special attackers with Ice / Fairy / Dragon moves can break past it, and Dragon-types can't switch in at all, while the only common specially based Fairy attacker that can beat Zygarde is Mega Gardevoir. It has a unique combination of traits as a bulky sweeper and it gets many set up chances against common Pokemon such as Mega Venusaur, Rotom-W, Ferrothorn, and Landorus-T, so it's not like it's hard to set up with. It's nothing special yeah, but it's niche is good enough to keep it ranked imo.