Heracross (QC 1/3)

Electrolyte

Wouldn't Wanna Know
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Taken from Memoric

Current Update:
Put in Lolk's stuff, should be QC ready

QC: [1/3][Lolk,---, ---]
GP: [0/2]


Overview
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  • Heracross' new Mega Evolution gave it an astronomical base 185 Attack and Skill Link which turns its multi-hit moves such as Pin Missile and Rock Blast into reliable, high Base Powered attacking options.
  • Its high Attack stat can easily put a dent on anything it hits, and most Pokemon require at least some amount of defensive investment to avoid being 2 or OHKOed.
  • It has a decent natural bulk of 80 / 115 / 105 which can let it shrug off a hit or two, and cool resistances to Ground, Grass, Dark, Fighting, and Bug.
  • Interesting pre-evolution ability in Moxie
  • Outside of its Mega Evolution, Heracross is outclassed by faster Fighting-types such as Terrakion and Keldeo.
  • As an attacker, its Speed is only average, and it lacks priority, so it requires much Speed control support.
  • The popularity of Intimidate hinders it, especially in the form of Landorus-T, who can brush off Heracross's STAB attacks (but only after repeatedly switching in, as -1 Mega Heracross can still 2HKO a majority of relevant Intimidate Pokemon)
  • It has weaknesses to common attacking types such as Fire, Fairy, and Flying, the latter of which it fears the most as it hits 4x as effectively.


Physical Attacker
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name: Physical Attacker
move 1: Pin Missile
move 2: Close Combat
move 3: Rock Blast
move 4: Protect
ability: Moxie
item: Heracronite
evs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
nature: Jolly / Adamant

Moves
========
  • Pin Missile is Mega Heracross's most powerful attacking, hitting at an effect 125 Base Power thanks to Skill Link. On top of that, it hits through Substitute and Focus Sash. Its accuracy is almost perfect, but must be made aware of.
  • Close Combat hits with STAB and is almost as powerful as Pin Missile. It has perfect accuracy and great coverage with Pin Missile.
  • Rock Blast lets it hit Flying-types such as Mega Charizard Y and Landorus-T that resist both of its STAB moves for good damage. Its accuracy can also be annoying at times but it is generally reliable, and patches up Mega Heracross's coverage well.
  • Protect lets it protect itself, stall out field conditions such as weather or Trick Room, and give its partner an opening to work.
  • Earthquake is useful if ever hitting Aegislash is a concern, and can be used over Protect, but only if absolutely necessary.

Set Details
========
  • The EVs are designed to beat both Jolly Bisharp and Breloom with a Jolly nature while having useful bulk and power.
  • If outspeeding them isn't a concern, it can use an Adamant nature for maximum damage output. The power boost is notable, especially for a Pokemon with an Attack stat as high as Mega Heracross, and will often allow it to achieve some important OHKOs, such as against Cresselia.
  • Heracronite is obvious for letting it transform into its Mega Evolution, which grants it notable power and bulk.
  • Mega Heracross can be used in Trick Room to decent effect with minimized Speed IVs and EVs, pouring all EVs into Attack and HP.

Usage Tips
========
  • Mega Heracross depends on team support, and often struggles to make a mark in suboptimal conditions. It can be used throughout the match, in the beginning to punch holes and wallbreak or in late game to clean up.
  • Mega Heracross can function decently well on its own, but truly shines when supported by things such as Tailwind, Trick Room, or paralysis, which make up for its lower Speed stat. Under these conditions, it becomes a much more powerful sweeper.
  • Try to refrain from switching it in to too many attacks before mega evolution; regular Heracross is not nearly as bulky as Mega Heracross
  • Once in safely, playing with Mega Heracross is quite easy. Simply select the right move and aim at the right target in order to deal as much damage as possible.
  • Use Pin Missile and Close Combat wisely. If both make the KO, use Pin Missile if you want to avoid the stat drops and use Close Combat if you absolutely must make the hit connect.
  • Moxie can be taken advantage of. In order to do this, simply switch Heracross in after a partner faints against a Pokemon that it can easily revenge kill and use it to finish off the opponent. This allows it to grab an attack boost and also maintain regular Heracross's higher Speed for one more turn to face the next in coming threat. However, be mindful of the fact that regular Heracross is much weaker, and can really only rely on Close Combat for damage, so make sure you can make the kill. It is also not very fast, even before Mega Evolution, so the list of Pokemon it can reliably revenge kill outside of Speed control support is quite short.
  • Use Protect to scout for dangerous attacks. However, be wary that Protect will stall your field effects (TR or Tailwind) so don't overuse it. MHera can sponge most non super effective hits anyway.
  • If optimal conditions are not up, try to aim Mega Heracross at slower opponents that it can take down. It is an effective wallbreaker and can deal heavy amounts of damage to most common defensive Pokemon in Doubles, including Amoonguss, Cresselia, and Togekiss.
  • Be wary that Mega Heracross's multi hit moves will often activate opposing berry consumption! It may seem like it can OHKO Cresselia, but in reality, many Cresselia carry a Sitrus Berry, which will be activated as its HP goes down, allowing it to survive all 5 hits. This has to be taken into account in damage calculations.

Team Options
========
  • Mega Heracross is a powerful standalone sweeper, but it is somewhat limited by its lack of Speed. Thus, its best partners are those that can either boost its Speed or slow down the opponents.
  • Tailwind is the most popular way to support Mega Heracross. Under it, Mega Heracross can outspeed everything notable in the metagame, and immediately becomes a huge threat.
  • Suicune is a great Tailwind supporter, as is Shaymin-S and Togekiss. Suicune beats Fire, Shaymin provides powerful type coverage, and Togekiss has Follow Me.
  • Trick Room is also an option with min speed Mega Heracross. Cresselia and Aromatisse can both set it up for Heracross.
  • Icy Wind / Electroweb - Keldeo, Jirachi, Rotom-W. Keldeo has Quick Guard, Jirachi has Follow Me, and Rotom-W can hit Flying-types and has Thunder Wave
  • Thunder Wave - Thundurus is a great partner, helping to get rid of Flying-types as well
  • Anti-Intimidate helps a lot too. Bisharp is a great partner, as it can get rid of Fairy-, Ghost-, and Psychic-types and keep Intimidate users out.
  • Sideline offense is really great as well, allowing for quick sweeps. Deoxys-A is a great partner, as it can tackle most threats easily with its powerful and fast attacks. Kyurem-B nails Flying-types while MHera keeps Rock-types out. Other powerful, fast sweepers like the Musketeers or Latios can help remove faster opponents for Mega Heracross.
  • Wide Guard can block Heat Wave and Pixilate Hyper Voice
  • Rock- / Electric- / Ice-types to counter Flying-types
  • Stealth Rock - puts a lot of things into KO range and limits Flying / Fire-type switchins

Other Options
########
  • Swords Dance can be used if any of the coverage is unneeded to boost its power even further. However, the general pace of the metagame as well as the difficulty of finding an opportunity to use it makes it inferior compared to the recommended moves, and Mega Heracross really relies on its coverage. Keep in mind that regular Heracross's ability, Moxie, gives it the opportunity to grab a pre-emptive attack boost when the conditions are right, and is generally a more accessible way to boost.
  • Earthquake
  • Bullet Seed hits Jellicent, Rotom-W, and other bulky Water-types much harder than all of Mega Heracross's other attacks, and OHKOs Rotom-W through Sitrus, something Pin Missile cannot do.
  • Bulk Up I guess
  • Guts as first ability- gives regular form a backup in case it gets statused before it can Mega Evolve.
  • Feint
  • Not really much else; the given set already gives Mega Hera everything it needs

Checks & Counters
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**Offensive Typing Advantage**:
  • P much any Flying-type with Flying-type STAB attack (Talonflame is the main one, Togekiss, Skymin. Most other Flying-types don't run Flying-type STAB tho. Just don't switch in on Rock Blast)
  • Fairy-types (Sylveon shrugs off Rock Blast for the OHKO, MGarde too, but has to watch out for Pin Missile)
  • Ghost-types (Mega Gengar can trap it and burn it or kill it, Aegislash resists all of its attacks and can 2HKO with Shadow Ball)
  • Fire-types (MZard easy OHKO, watch out for Rock Blast though)
**Intimidate and Burns**:
  • Landorus-T. Be careful though, -1 MHera is still pretty powerful, and can 2HKO. Also, landorus-t can't do anything to Heracross by itself; it needs a partner to actually take it down. Same with Hitmontop.
  • Salamence. Doesn't like Rock Blast but can OHKO with Fire Blast, though the chance is small
  • Be sure to pivot in and out of neutral hits to continuously lower Mega Heracross's power if you cannot immediately take it down as it is still quite powerful, even at -1.
  • Burns hurt. Jellicent easily shrugs off attacks, while Sableye has priority. Most WOW users are slower though so be careful as you might have to take a hit first.
 
Last edited:
Overview:
  • Mega Heracross is probs better than both Keldeo and Terrakion, make sure it's clear that the only reason not to use it is because it takes up the mega slot.
  • Add the bad Speed bullet that Speed Control is practically mandatory when using it.
  • Add to the many weaknesses bullet that it has good resists as well
  • Rephrase the Intimidate bullet because -1 Heracross can still 2HKO 44 Hp Landorus-T. If anything that should be mentioned as well to show the pawuh
  • I dont think the prevo abilities mention is worth keeping because you already have a looooot of info here. I always used Guts just incase a scald burn happened on a switchin or someone was annoying and using a sableye but both are nichy enough to not worry about.
Moves:
  • Keep EQ/SD in OO.
Usage Tips:
  • I wouldn't say it needs heavy support (the first bullet). It can just use its typing/bulk to switch in on many attackers and punch something really hard. If it wants to sweep it needs Tailwind/Thunder Wave support tho. It works fine early/mid game too.
  • "Moxie can be taken advantage of. In order to do this, simply switch Heracross in after a partner faints against a Pokemon that it can easily revenge kill. This allows it to grab an attack boost and also maintain regular Heracross's higher Speed for one more turn to face the next in coming threat."
    • This is false. Moxie only activates when Heracross gets the KO itself.
  • The second to last bullet is odd. Mega Heracross shouldn't target an opp just because it is slower, it should target whoever is threatening the team the most.
Team Options:
  • Rotom-W also beats Talonflame! Say it has Twave>Electroweb tho. Electroweb is way more underwhelming.
Other Options:
  • Bullet seed to KO Rotom-W and Jellicent through sitrus.
Checks & Counters:
  • Add Jellicent/Sableye to WoW users and take out Talonflame cause it would just Brave Bird.
  • Add Aegislash to things it cant touch
  • Add all the intimidate mons and just say they dont want to take neutral hits so they just pivot in and out to lessen Hera's damage output.
  • Take out scald as it is an unreliable check.
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
"Mega Heracross is probs better than both Keldeo and Terrakion, make sure it's clear that the only reason not to use it is because it takes up the mega slot."

i disagree completely, I wouldn't use megacross anyways because of its speed tier as compared to terrakion which loses to so many threats.

cross absolutely needs another set that isn't mega; imo choice is legit better than mega but since order gets fucked up by the dex anyways idc. if you haven't the experience to write it, i'm sure Matt will be willing to help

i'd say something in team options about just having a fast partner that can take out most of the things faster than mega cross.
 

Electrolyte

Wouldn't Wanna Know
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Implemented most except

Moves:
  • Keep EQ/SD in OO.
Kept EQ because Aegi is that annoying, it's somewhat as useful as RB, and it's spread. Will remove if other QC members agree though

Usage Tips:
  • "Moxie can be taken advantage of. In order to do this, simply switch Heracross in after a partner faints against a Pokemon that it can easily revenge kill. This allows it to grab an attack boost and also maintain regular Heracross's higher Speed for one more turn to face the next in coming threat."
    • This is false. Moxie only activates when Heracross gets the KO itself.
  • The second to last bullet is odd. Mega Heracross shouldn't target an opp just because it is slower, it should target whoever is threatening the team the most.
Both were probably just a misunderstanding as I meant what you suggested; I have rephrased to make things clearer.


Also I will inquire more regarding a choice set before deciding whether to take it on or leave it to matt (if he would be willing to do it)
 

Darkmalice

Level 3
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It has a decent natural bulk of 80 / 115 / 105 which can let it shrug off a hit or two, and cool resistances to Ground, Grass, Fighting, and Bug.
Bug resistance isn't really cool, as Bug isn't that common and Bug resistance is widespread. Replace with Dark-type

Though Pin Missile is stronger and has no consequence, Close Combat is more reliable, so if both will make the KO, use Close Combat.
I disagree with this. Mega Heracross has good bulk without the defence drops. I would always use Pin Missile if they would both get the KO, but I feared the def drop would expose Heracross to a KO it wouldn't otherwise have. I would make the call based on the situation. 95% accuracy is a minimal risk anyways.

Make it more something like if both get the KO, use Pin Missile if you want to avoid the drops and Close Combat if you really cannot afford the miss or if you think the Defence drops won't matter.


Wide Guard can block Heat Waves
And Pixillate Hyper Voice


When dsicussing Moxie in AC, mention the downsides of trying to net a KO in its base form in order to get a Moxie boost - multi-hit moves are likely to hit for much les damage. Close Combat is much weaker too, and less bulk. If you want to attempt to get a Moxie boost, you should be sure that you will get it.


Add Knock Off to OO for Ghost-types

Remove Bulk Up from OO. There's no reason to use it when you have SD

Swords Dance can be used if any of the coverage is unneeded to boost its power even further. However, the general pace of the metagame as well as the difficulty of finding an opportunity to use it makes it inferior compared to the recommended moves. Keep in mind that regular Heracross's ability, Moxie, gives it the opportunity to grab a pre-emptive attack boost when the conditions are right, and is generally a more reliable way to boost.
I disagree with half of this
-Heracross really needs a coverage, as many Pokemon resist its STABs - the many Flying-types, Fairy-types, and Ghost-types for example. Giving up a coverage move is one of the big cons of SD
-Moxie is not actually that big of a reason to drop SD, as it's pretty unreliable, definitely less so than SD

Salamence. Doesn't like Rock Blast but can OHKO with Fire Blast
252 SpA Life Orb Salamence Fire Blast vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Mega Heracross: 265-315 (85.2 - 101.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

It has a minimal chance of OHKO, and that's only with Life Orb. Salamence is still an appropriate check to list though

Also mention with burns that be careful about burning Heracross in its base form due to the possibility of Guts.
 
okay but at least specify that EQ should replace protect, which is risky af. Ain't no way in hell it can replace any other move.

it shouldnt be saved for lategame. It needs to punch holes early on. Saving it and a Tailwind user for a lategame sleep is more trouble than it's worth. oddly enough you dont have "set up tailwind and punch stuff" in usage tips at all lol

on the moxie revenge kill part mention that it is slower than most of the metagame so it will not find many chances to actually do this (anything slower than it is probs in TR also) (i personally would take the bullet out)

specify what bullet seed does >.>

Guts is not so it can purposely absorb status. It gives it a chance to hit hard even if it gets surprised by a wow or scald burn on a switchin.
 

Mizuhime

Did I mistake you for a sign from God?
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Electrolyte I think a second set should be added for Heracross, one that isn't a Mega Evolution. Regular Heracross, tho outclassed by the horses, is still a very powerful Pokemon in tailwind. It has access to some pretty amazing dual stabs and moxie after one boos it's actually really terrifying. A set would look something like this


Heracross @ Focus Sash / Life Orb
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Megahorn
- Close Combat
- Feint
- Protect

the set is pretty straight forward, but good at what it does. Megahorn and CC are obviously main attacking moves while feint offers a great support to and some priority that can help Heracross pick up a KO on a mon brought down to it's sash. Obvious teammates for this are Pokemon like Togekiss and other tailwind setters. I prefer using Focus Sash with it because regular Heracross is as you said, pretty frail. Life Orb or even a resist berry can be slashed after but i would ask the other qc members before acting on that.
 

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
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Stress that not mega evolving Heracross right away can somtimes be very important because of the speed decrease.

As a result, I would say that Adamant Mega Heracross (which I prefer over Jolly tbh since you should be using lots of speed control on Heracross teams anyway) should use 228 Speed, since that's what it takes for Heracross to still outrun the +spe 70s before mega evolving. I'm aware that the 70s are generally not max+ speed, but it's only 12 EVs to still outrun em and as I said above I think Adamant is better than Jolly.

It makes a good deal of difference imo
252 Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 24 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 280-330 (85.1 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 24 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 307-363 (93.3 - 110.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 243-286 (79.9 - 94%)
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 265-313 (87.1 - 102.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
also if you're doing Bullet Seed for Rotom-W (I mean you shouldn't tbh but if you wanted to)
252 Atk Mega Heracross Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 340-410 (111.8 - 134.8%) unlikely to KO through Sitrus
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 380-450 (125 - 148%) guaranteed KO through Sitrus

252 Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 192 Def Togekiss: 310-370 (83.1 - 99.1%)
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 192 Def Togekiss: 340-410 (91.1 - 109.9%) -- approx. 56.3% chance to OHKO non Sitrus

252 Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cresselia: 460-550 (103.6 - 123.8%) no KO if Sitrus
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cresselia: 510-610 (114.8 - 137.3%) ~50% shot if Sitrus

It also guarantees the 2HKO if you hit Amoonguss with CC followed by Pin Missile





Also
-1 252 Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 44 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 135-160 (40.9 - 48.4%)
-1 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 44 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 145-175 (43.9 - 53%) -- approx. 11.7% chance to 2HKO
(how does Mega Hera 2HKO Landorus-T again???)
 

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