Battle Spot Community Create-A-Team: Triples [TEAM COMPLETE, IN TESTING STAGE]

[Age of Kings]

Yeah, I'm loving the looks of Suicune and I basically threw it out a few pages back because I remembered that in certain other metas that may not be entirely relevant, Suicune has been an effective utility mon with useful niches. Snarl is another option I didn't consider until now either - if we lose Hitmontop, it's a bit of insurance against Sylveon and the other spread move brigade (conveniently outspeeding the majority of that brigade). If we bank on using Suicune, our last mon should be physical and check Kanga.

I'm a baddie and totally forgot Gyarados doesn't get Rock Slide. With the high incidence of getting flinch off, that gives another point to Landorus-T and having spread flinch seems very helpful given MTI's calcs. I feel that Suicune + Landorus-T makes a better combination than Gyarados + ????. Snarl + Intimidate cripple the enemy team, Landorus makes better use of Rock Slide with Tailwind + Icy Wind support, both help us vs Kanga without going out of our way to sacrifice team synergy for it. I'm also excited about the prospect of double Intimidate + Snarl.

So my proposal would be running Landorus-T and Suicune together:

Landorus @ ???
Adamant
252 Atk / ???
Earthquake
Rock Slide
Superpower
U-Turn / Knock Off / Protect

WITH

Suicune @ ???
Bold
????
Scald
Icy Wind
Tailwind
Snarl

I like Snarl over Protect on Suicune because checking special spread moves > Protect. Since I'm not too keen on running Ice Beam because it doesn't make the best of Suicune's assets in addition to that Garchomp calc, I really think that Bold is preferable over Modest. Is there anything else that Modest is absolutely necessary for?

 

[EnGarde]

snip

I just used ethan06's shareable team builder tool to check type synergies.

http://www.teammagma.net/teambuilder/?237,485,3,642,245,645t

The only duplicated weaknesses are flying (venu and hitmontop), psychic (venu and hitmontop), and water (heatran and lando-t). (EDIT: one weakness of the link: it switches mega venu back to regular venu, which doesn't account for mega venu's thick fat ability. Switch it back to mega venu for a true view of the team).

I have a really good feeling about this. Count me on board for lando and suicune.

One tiny little point about logistics: I don't have the ability to collect a thundurus with prankster or suicune, and while I *could* collect a landorus-t, it's a very challenging RNG that I'm not equipped to do at this point. Does anyone have legit ones they could donate for cloning? These must adhere to the wifi forum's "no hacked or genned pokemon" policy, so they would need to be legit. We can also wait to discuss this further after the sets have been fully finalized.

 

[Age of Kings]

I have a Bold Suicune and a Timid Thundurus. Don't you worry.

EDIT: As for Landorus, I have a Jolly one but not Adamant which seems to be the optimal nature for Landorus-T.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Hmm before we finally decide on Land O'Lakes-T I just remembered a couple things that may give us some trouble...

Base 100 Speed members on a Sun team. More specifically Typhlosion's Eruption. Also, Heat Waves/Solar Beams (for Suicune).

Many Sun teams will lead with Typhy in the middle and Scarfed ones will kinda ruin this team's day. If they have something that can Quick Guard or Fake Out Top before it does anything... There goes half our team on the first turn.

The easiest solution for this is Garchomp, but it will not fill some niches that Landorus-T fills... Thoughts?

 

[ethan06]

Heatran covers most of those threats pretty well, especially Typhlosion which has to rely on Focus Blast to hit it (which is admittedly scary: Focus Blast's damage range is (61.3 - 73%) while Earth Power does (83.6 - 99.3%), meaning we'd need either priority on the field or a damage boosting item (or Sitrus Berry) on Heatran to win). It soaks up Solar Beams and Heat Waves, discouraging the former with Flash Fire and demolishing Charizard Y with Ancient Power. Scarfed Typhlosion is scary but facing it with Scarf Landorus (assuming that's the item we choose) and Heatran will force it to pick between nailing Lando with an Eruption (which fails to KO: 252 SpA Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-T: 135-160 (82.3 - 97.5%)) or specifically targeting Heatran with a Focus Blast. Of course teammates are a factor in making this decision but I feel that it's something that can be played around should we need to. I think Heatran is a good enough check that we can afford to play around it should it turn up; however, I'd like to hear other people's input on it as well.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Heatran covers most of those threats pretty well, especially Typhlosion which has to rely on Focus Blast to hit it (which is admittedly scary: Focus Blast's damage range is (61.3 - 73%) while Earth Power does (83.6 - 99.3%), meaning we'd need either priority on the field or a damage boosting item (or Sitrus Berry) on Heatran to win). It soaks up Solar Beams and Heat Waves, discouraging the former with Flash Fire and demolishing Charizard Y with Ancient Power. Scarfed Typhlosion is scary but facing it with Scarf Landorus (assuming that's the item we choose) and Heatran will force it to pick between nailing Lando with an Eruption (which fails to KO: 252 SpA Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-T: 135-160 (82.3 - 97.5%)) or specifically targeting Heatran with a Focus Blast. Of course teammates are a factor in making this decision but I feel that it's something that can be played around should we need to. I think Heatran is a good enough check that we can afford to play around it should it turn up; however, I'd like to hear other people's input on it as well.

Does this account for Sun? I haven't seen Typhlosion on any non-sun teams. Our checks are shaky at best. I am really starting to lean towards Garchomp.

Here's what I have been using...

Landmaster (Garchomp) @ Choice Scarf
Jolly Nature
Ability: Rough Skin
4 HP/252 Attack/252 Speed
- Outrage/Dragon Claw (I use Outrage, since I run an Air Balloon Meowstic with SafeSwag; DClaw may be better for this team)
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Iron Head (Which is good for doing a quick 60%+ to Gardevoir or stacking flinches, see my flinch calc post)

Some smart players also will Helping Hand their Weather-based middle nuke (or Hypa Voice Pixilate Fairy).

With looking at our synergy and team I would suggest Air Balloon on Heatran.

 

[ethan06]

After thinking on it a bit, I think ScarfChomp would most likely be better for the team as we don't really lose anything by running it other than the Intimidate (which could be a blessing in disguise, as running more than one could tie our hands a bit against Defiant users). We can still use it as a sort-of answer to Kangaskhan simply by way of Rough Skin; the one Intimidate we have gives us enough lee-way to get as much damage as we can with the number of offensive threats we're running, and sacking Garchomp to, say, a Return after he's fulfilled his purpose is a free 25% which can make a big difference if Kang is boosted at all.

----
Now that we pretty much have our six mons (the last slot is being discussed atm), I thought I'd go ahead and do an EnGarde-style team snapshot, to make it easier to visualise what we have and pick out any more problems. Here is what we have:

Hitmontop
Intimidate
Careful
252 HP / 180 SpD / 76 Speed
-Close Combat
-Fake Out
-Wide Guard
-Feint

Heatran
Flash Fire
Modest
180 HP / 252 SpA / 76 Spd
-Heat Wave
-Earth Power
-Ancient Power
-Protect

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Chlorophyll -> Thick Fat
Modest
252 HP / 68 Def / 180 Sp. Atk / 4 SpD / 4 Speed
-Giga Drain
-Sludge Bomb
-Sleep Powder
-Protect

Thundurus
Prankster
Timid
6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Speed
-Thunderbolt
-HP Ice
-Taunt
-Thunder Wave

Suicune
Pressure
Bold
252 HP/252 Def/4 Sp. Atk (???? not finalised)
-Tailwind
-Scald
-Icy Wind
-Snarl

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Rough Skin
Jolly
252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Iron Head

OR

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Intimidate
Jolly
252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-U-Turn
-Superpower/Knock Off

(Landorus synergy)
(Garchomp synergy)

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

After thinking on it a bit, I think ScarfChomp would most likely be better for the team as we don't really lose anything by running it other than the Intimidate (which could be a blessing in disguise, as running more than one could tie our hands a bit against Defiant users). We can still use it as a sort-of answer to Kangaskhan simply by way of Rough Skin; the one Intimidate we have gives us enough lee-way to get as much damage as we can with the number of offensive threats we're running, and sacking Garchomp to, say, a Return after he's fulfilled his purpose is a free 25% which can make a big difference if Kang is boosted at all.

----
Now that we pretty much have our six mons (the last slot is being discussed atm), I thought I'd go ahead and do an EnGarde-style team snapshot, to make it easier to visualise what we have and pick out any more problems. Here is what we have:

Hitmontop
Intimidate
Careful
252 HP / 180 SpD / 76 Speed
-Close Combat
-Fake Out
-Wide Guard
-Feint

Heatran
Flash Fire
Modest
180 HP / 252 SpA / 76 Spd
-Heat Wave
-Earth Power
-Ancient Power
-Protect

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Chlorophyll -> Thick Fat
Modest
252 HP / 68 Def / 180 Sp. Atk / 4 SpD / 4 Speed
-Giga Drain
-Sludge Bomb
-Sleep Powder
-Protect

Thundurus
Prankster
Timid
6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Speed
-Thunderbolt
-HP Ice
-Taunt
-Thunder Wave

Suicune
Pressure
Bold
252 HP/252 Def/4 Sp. Atk (???? not finalised)
-Tailwind
-Scald
-Icy Wind
-Snarl

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Rough Skin
Jolly
252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Iron Head

OR

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Intimidate
Jolly
252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-U-Turn
-Superpower/Knock Off

(Landorus synergy)
(Garchomp synergy)

Hmmm, I'm really starting to warm up to this team. My vote still goes towards Garchomp over Landorus for reasons already started.

As it stands it looks really easy to use and I really like the synergy.

The things to look out for...

Smeargle: Dark Void will ruin our day. All it needs is something like a partner Mega Kang using Fake Out or Mr. Meowstic to Quick Guard and well... There goes that match.
Mr. Meowstic: Meowstic's support options can be very very dangerous to this team. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE MR. MEOWSTIC. Prankster Quick Guard will block any type of 3 level priority (with the exception of the second & third Round following an Assist Round (which is blocked)). He can also use Dual Screens, Trick Room, SafeSwag, priority Charm... The list goes on. I use Meowstic religiously and +1 priority Quick Guard is soooo good. You may want to wait to play Hitmontop or Thundy until Mr. Meowstic has been dealt with. Don't be reckless against Meowstic with Hitmontop because some people (me) use Psychic Meowstic (in the event that he gets Taunted or something).
Trick Room: Should our opponents get the opportunity to use this it will be an uphill battle. As always be smart about what you target, what can Quick Guard and be weary of things like Mega Mawile in Trick Room (it is utterly terrifying).

Part of me still wants to recommend putting Mr. Meowstic somewhere, but another part of me really doesn't see him fitting in.

 

[Age of Kings]

I have a bit of time, will elaborate later.

Remember that Venusaur can also disrupt sun leads. Speed order is determined at the beginning of the turn, independent of what occurs during that turn (with the exception of Quash and similar moves), so even if we Mega Evolve right away, we will still outrun Charizard-Y and Typhlosion that first turn. With our EVs, Venusaur hits 202 Speed before Mega Evolving in the sun. We lose to Scarf Typhlosion but the point I would like to illustrate is that the chances of the opponent running enough things to get past our failsafes (Fake Out, Wide Guard, Chlorophyll Sleep Powder, Heatran benefitting from AoE fire spam, Suicune + Snarl actively crippling their team) is slim. We don't have a straight "THE CHECK" to sun, but I am convinced it's fairly well covered.

I'm against Garchomp because we need that second Intimidator to check Kanga. I would be all for Garchomp except that we need Landorus for Kanga. Second Intimidate is more useful than Rough Skin for me.

Btw, Scarf + Adamant is optimal on Landorus-T, is it not? Although I may not have one, I have plenty of things I could trade to get one.

EDIT: Agreed with Air Balloon on Heatran.

EDIT 2: Stellar has offered to give us an Adamant Landorus if we can find someone to clone it.

 

[EnGarde]

Does this account for Sun? I haven't seen Typhlosion on any non-sun teams. Our checks are shaky at best.

You know, in the time it took me to read the thread and type this message, 2 people also posted, lol.

I was going to point out that we also have chlorophyll venusaur, which is a huge check against sun teams. With venu standing next to heatran (heatran discouraging heat wave against venu), we can fire off super fast sleep powders or sludge bombs, and we get the speed boost on the turn we mega evolve.

I'm going to edit this post in a minute, because I haven't read the new comments yet, but I'm going to say that I really really like garchomp, since he's my favorite pseudo legendary (and he can fit easily on most teams), but I haven't given up on landorus yet either, since double intimidate is pretty appealling. So I guess that makes me still undecided.

Though, if we do run garchomp, I'd also like to consider other items with it, since garchomp can work effectively with other items (yay base 102 speed). For example, rocky helmet to further punish physical attackers, or lum berry to temporarily counter status (will-o-wisp, dark void, spore, swagger). Also, this might be a safer option for our team, since we have a lot of grounded and ground weak pokemon, and it's kinda dangerous to have a pokemon choice-locked into earthquake in that case.

Speaking of items, we should start picking them for our team. Life orb, for example, is a good option for both heatran and thundurus, since it turns a lot of their 2HKOs into OHKOs (there were calcs posted earlier in the thread, I haven't dug them out yet). The problem is picking who gets it.

Sitrus berry is also going to be a hotly contested item, since I think there are a few pokes that could really benefit from it as well.

Lastly, thinking further on suicune: do we really need both icy wind and tailwind? Having 2 speed control moves on 1 pokemon might be a bit overkill (I dunno, though, since I've never used suicune before). Does suicune have another coverage option we might want to run? Or we could double up on water moves, giving suicune a 2nd, stronger option (hydro pump)?

 

[ethan06]

Assuming Venusaur Protects first turn, activating Chlorophyll, and Mega Evolves the second turn to take advantage of both Chlorophyll and Thick Fat:

180+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Typhlosion: 87-103 (56.8 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Typhlosion Eruption (64 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur in Sun: 62-74 (33.1 - 39.5%) -- 99.3% chance to 3HKO (assuming min. Sludge Bomb roll)

Far more reliable than sleeping it. It would probably do even less if we used Fake Out first turn. I agree with AoK that sun is well covered; however I'm still open to the idea of Garchomp should we need it.

Another problem I thought of while watching some videos on the Global Link: what's our game plan for Perish Trap? Thundurus and Hitmontop?

 

[Age of Kings]

I believe so, I'm not sure what better option than priority Taunt exists for Perish Trap other than outright OHKOing Gengar/Politoed/Lapras? with something faster. Against Gengar, we also stop a potential WoW or Protect if it tries to do something other than attack.

I don't think Tailwind and Icy Wind are thoroughly redundant, especially since we have a slowish team. Icy Wind is not susceptible to Taunt and helps us destroy Garchomp and Landorus-T. I like having both of them because it allows us to choose between setting up and maintaining the momentum of the team. Do you have any other ideas? idk, I'm just in love with the "offensive utility" Suicune provides in addition to being probably the best Tailwind user to bring as far as team synergy is concerned.

If you prefer, we could drop Icy Wind for Ice Beam to check Landorus and Garchomp. Better than Hydro Pump imo, since Suicune is not designed to nab those KOs.

If sun and potentially rain are well covered, then I'm not sure what Garchomp offers over Landorus. We must consider that running Garchomp means we are that more susceptible to Kanga. The main reason for Landorus over Garchomp IS Intimidate from my understanding.

I was thinking about items and here's what I came up with:

Heatran > Air Balloon
Landorus > Scarf is the most popular item and does not require addition support from the team (though we have that). If not wanting to run Scarf because we have Tailwind/Icy Wind, idk. I did some Assault Vest calcs and it saves us from 2HKO from Aegi Shadow Ball and OHKO from +2 Shadow Ball, as well as turning Heatran's Heat Wave into a 3HKO from a 2HKO. Though it reduces special damage by ~30% on neutral hits, I haven't really seen many situations where it makes a difference, especially without Snarl/Wide Guard taken into account.
Thundurus > LO. We might not have any redirection but I feel its frailty is well accounted for and the benefits of OHKOing common threats is a fairly good perk. Sash doesn't help us against Kanga or Scarf + Rock Slide + potential flinch + not being able to OHKO the common users without LO.

The main contention for Sitrus Berry imo is between Hitmontop and Suicune, both of whom are designed to stay on the field for as long as possible. We should consider the main threats and make our decision that way because we can then discuss whichever doesn't get picked.

For Suicune - we need Calm to avoid a 2HKO Charizard-Y's Solarbeam (Thundurus can outrun and OHKO, if we run Scarf Landorus we can OHKO, if he focuses Suicune then that's on the enemy for not focusing on our offensive threats), other than that this is probably the biggest common nuke threat to Suicune besides enemy LO Thundurus. This means that with Snarl and Intimidate, the majority of the tier doesn't really hurt Suicune for much. Also idek if I'm doing these calcs right???? (+2 252+ Atk Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 102-120 (49.2 - 57.9%) -- 60.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery)

Hitmontop - Talonflame has a chance to OHKO with Sharp Beak, GBL is down but I think that most of its threats were covered in earlier posts.

Best use of Sitrus Berry imo is to use it when common things barely cross the 2HKO threshold and bring us up to ~70% to tank many more threats. I'm torn because it's difficult to get those big hits on Suicune and it generally forces the enemy to resort to single target and can stay on the field for a very long time. Meanwhile, Hitmontop can't take as many hits but has slightly less staying power than Suicune, so perhaps less opportunity to get value?

Btw - against Eject Button for Hitmontop since its main purpose is to check spread moves and pop Protect. It is designed to stay on the field for awhile and if we do end up running Landorus, we do have that backup Protect. idk, I feel like we have a lot of the archtypical leads covered so against what kind of matchups would Hitmontop be a hinderance on the field? Maybe Perish Trap. Hm.

 

[Pyritie]

This means that with Snarl and Intimidate, the majority of the tier doesn't really hurt Suicune for much. Also idek if I'm doing these calcs right???? (+2 252+ Atk Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 102-120 (49.2 - 57.9%) -- 60.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery)

You forgot the mega.

+2 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 348-411 (86.1 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

 

[Age of Kings]

ty I knew I was doing something wrong >.>

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

At a glance our biggest flaw would probably be Fake Outs from anything faster than Hitmontop. Which a lot of players use religiously.

I think I'll test this team out on Showdown when I get a chance this week and play around with the items too.

EDIT: Undefeated with it so far... I may try using it under my main nick to see if I can battle more higher-ranked players.

Here are all the matches I played tonight.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespottriples-162284632
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespottriples-162286493
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespottriples-162288130
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespottriples-162290115
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespottriples-162293448
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespottriples-162296274
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespottriples-162299462

Feel free to critique how I use this team and such. I think I am super protective of Hitmontop because of how amazing he is in Triples.

I slapped a Life Orb on Thundy because its the most used item on Triples Thundy in the Battle Spot.

In case anyone wants to c/p this team into Showdown...

Guile (Hitmontop) @ Eject Button
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 180 SpD / 76 Spe
Careful Nature
- Close Combat
- Fake Out
- Wide Guard
- Feint

Mrgrgr (Heatran) (F) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 180 HP / 252 SpA / 76 Spe
Modest Nature
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power
- Protect

Soar Moar (Venusaur) (F) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 180 SpA / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder
- Protect

Attila the Thun (Thundurus) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Taunt
- Dark Pulse / Protect

Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Tailwind
- Scald
- Icy Wind
- Snarl

Land O'Lakes (Landorus-Therian) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- U-turn
- Superpower

Edit2: The more I think about it... doesn't it seem like running Twave on Thundy kinda seems a bit redundant on a team that is running Tailwind? What do you guys think about Dark Pulse over Twave? I've mentally said to myself at least three times over the matches I had yesterday "Gee, it would be swell if I had something that could snipe." when fighting the last mon on an opponent's team.

Or if we wanna get creative... What about Sky Drop over Twave to remove a Trick Roomer off of the field for a turn? That would probably work better on a team that uses boosts, hmm.

So yeah, Dark Pulse looks enticing.

 

[Age of Kings]

Thanks for the input; your item choices also closely matched my hunches. I'm starting to see the value of Eject Button. I think the team is done with the planning stages!

I agree that Thunder Wave should be axed. I would like to suggest Protect over Dark Pulse; Thundurus' fragility may render it needed in certain situations. I dunno if we want to rely on RNG flinch vs coverage vs utility, whatever will work best.

idk if it's just me, but we ran into a strong FWG core. From a preliminary standpoint, I'm pleased we are running Venu over Charizard or Blastoise and its bulk has proven valuable so far.

I lost a couple of matches with a positive W/L ratio (like 15 games so far), but I owe this to being terrible at Triples. Not going to put up replays unless requested because noob play. I'm going to need to practice more on the ladder, but a couple of things I've noticed are (probably on the obvious side, but should document the learning process):

- pay close attention to "setters" on the field. Trick Room, Wide Guard, etc.

- this is probably the most challenging tier to pick leads for, but make no mistake, this is one of the most interesting aspects of the format. Not only are you sending out half your team and trying to "match up" against the opponent, your gameplay is much more dependent on what you sent on your leads (Tailwind or Guard or whatever).

- switching is not nearly as uncommon as I thought it would be. Definitely more than doubles, due to slightly lesser risk due to emphasis on positioning and more spread out targets.

Does anyone have a Modest Heatran? I pretty much have this entire team EV'd and battle ready in-game sans Heatran. I also gave EnGarde Suicune and Thundurus, and I have extra copies of the Suicune. Gonna keep doing some PS! tests but I'd like to run this in-game too.

 

[EnGarde]

Does anyone have a Modest Heatran? I pretty much have this entire team EV'd and battle ready in-game sans Heatran. I also gave EnGarde Suicune and Thundurus, and I have extra copies of the Suicune. Gonna keep doing some PS! tests but I'd like to run this in-game too.

Yup, I've got thundy and suicune. I was just getting ready to post it, lol. I've got the heatran already, apparently I forgot to post the other members of the CCAT team that I've collected. I'm finishing up the EV training on venusaur and heatran, and then I'll post them all.

EDIT: Now that I've got suicune and thundurus, I have all members of the team collected. I just need to finish EV training them (wasn't too clear at first, lol).

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Day 2
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespottriples-162555003
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespottriples-162558609
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespottriples-162561586
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespottriples-162563464 First loss. I should've won it, I used Scald a handful of times against a Ferro, but no burn (which would've won).
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/battlespottriples-162568758 Hate Perish Trap teams...

So yeah, I tried Dark Pulse Thundy and I like him. Protect is another viable option, but if you fight a Perish Trap team... You have to nuke Gengar as soon as possible.

I also used Dark Pulse one game on ally Hitmontop to get it out of there due to Perish Trap being dumb. It actually won me the game, lol.

It may be a pain in the Aegislash to get, but I would suggest using female Venu and Tran. Jjjjjust in case of the random infatuation gimmicks.

 

[Age of Kings]

Bump. I'm using Protect on Thundurus, though to be honest I'm not using it all that much but Protect helps with prediction and whatnot. Then again, I generally prefer a more low-risk playstyle.

I still need a Heatran, anyone have one in-game? I'm ready to tackle the ladder in-game and kick some ass now that I've picked up some Triples skills.

My most common lead tends to be Hitmontop / Suicune / Venu or Hitmontop / Suicune / Landorus. Hitmontop was always intended as a lead, but Suicune gets that solid speed control right off the bat and pretty much anything without SE special moves aren't going to hurt it much. I'm pleasantly surprised by its performance and I'm puzzled why people don't use it more honestly.

I've been doing fairly well on the PS! ladder although that's not saying much because people are using things like Beat Up + Justified and Aerial Ace Metagross...thus showing that it's good for a few pickup matches but not necessarily great to build skills longterm.

 

[EnGarde]

Bump. I'm using Protect on Thundurus, though to be honest I'm not using it all that much but Protect helps with prediction and whatnot. Then again, I generally prefer a more low-risk playstyle.

I still need a Heatran, anyone have one in-game? I'm ready to tackle the ladder in-game and kick some ass now that I've picked up some Triples skills.

My most common lead tends to be Hitmontop / Suicune / Venu or Hitmontop / Suicune / Landorus. Hitmontop was always intended as a lead, but Suicune gets that solid speed control right off the bat and pretty much anything without SE special moves aren't going to hurt it much. I'm pleasantly surprised by its performance and I'm puzzled why people don't use it more honestly.

I've been doing fairly well on the PS! ladder although that's not saying much because people are using things like Beat Up + Justified and Aerial Ace Metagross...thus showing that it's good for a few pickup matches but not necessarily great to build skills longterm.

Oh man, I just realized that I never posted the official "come 'n get 'em!!!!" message for you guys here. :S I have a copy of the full team available fully battle ready. If you need a copy of the whole team or just 1 or 2 pokemon, just post a message in the distribution thread, and we can coordinate a trade. If you need a full team of 6, it is MUCH easier to coordinate schedules and do a direct trade (where we exchange friend codes and trade directly). If you only need 1 or 2 pokemon and our timezones are wildly different, GTS trades work best.

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Role: lead, middle position

Hitmontop @ Eject Button
Intimidate
Careful
252 HP / 180 SpD / 76 Speed

Close Combat
Fake Out
Wide Guard
Feint

- Standard triples moveset.
- Fake Out disrupts enemy lead so we can get our stuff up.
- Wide Guard to protect against prevalent spread attacks.
- Feint pops Protects and enemy Wide/Quick Guard so we can use our own spread moves and leave the enemy vulnerable.
- Spread focused on special defense due to lack of justification for Adamant or Impish. 76 Speed to outrun 4 Speed Blastoise to Fake Out, outrun slowest Heatran, and avoid base 70 speed creep.

Role: bulky attacker

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Flash Fire
Modest
180 HP / 252 SpA / 76 Spd

Heat Wave
Earth Power
Ancient Power
Protect

- Heat Wave is primary STAB, a good spread move that hits many Pokemon in the metagame for SE.
- Earth Power provides coverage against other Heatran and Fire types.
- Ancientpower chosen over Flash Cannon because Flash Cannon's main target is Sylveon (and Fairies) and the team needs a Talonflame and Charizard-Y check more. Flash Cannon covers shakier targets vs Ancientpower shoring up positive ones.
- 76 Speed outruns min speed Rotom-W and Cress, as well as beating speed creep from other base ~70s and Heatran.

Role: THE MEGA

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Chlorophyll -> Thick Fat
Modest
252 HP / 68 Def / 180 Sp. Atk / 4 SpD / 4 Speed

Giga Drain
Sludge Bomb
Sleep Powder
Protect

- Set is standard Mega Venusaur with STAB covering everything it needs to check. Protect chosen to stay on the field longer.
- For Sylv, Blastoise, rain check, and general defense with Sleep Powder as disruption.
- 252 HP for bulk, as Venusaur is designed to check Sylv and Blastoise.
- 68 Def prevents 2HKO by Kanga and OHKO from Sharp Beak Talonflame.
- 4 Speed for speed creep, 4 SpD for spread efficiency sake (the 4 EVs don't really work elsewhere).

Role: Offensive utility

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Prankster
Timid
6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Speed

Thunderbolt
HP Ice
Taunt
Thunder Wave

- Spread is not lazy, Timid Thundurus outspeeds Adamant Talonflame by a point and therefore allows us to check every other support Pokemon in the tier.
- Priority Taunt is our main check against TR / Perish Song / Wide Guard etc.
- Thunder Wave to cripple things for speed control.
- Thunderbolt OHKOs Blastoise, HP Ice nearly OHKOs Landorus-T and Garchomp. Can be solid OHKOs with LO.

Suicune @ Sitrus Berry
Pressure
Bold
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpA

Tailwind
Scald
Icy Wind
Snarl

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Intimidate
Jolly
252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP

Earthquake
Rock Slide
U-Turn
Superpower

 

[Age of Kings]

Mini-report:

I saved battle videos of everything I could so far. Too lazy to upload and post them, but I'll get around to it...

Rating: 1609 (with some variance as PGL did not update with my most recent win/loss)
lol, already #34 US and #402 world. Not bad for being ~15 matches in with plenty of progress to be made and I'm aiming for at least top 100 world.

The wins:
Interestingly, this team does pretty well against Competitive/Defiant mons despite its focus on stat drops. They are all checked pretty well - Bisharp is outsped by Hitmontop (just need to maneuver around Sucker Punch), Suicune and Venusaur don't give a single fuck about Milotic, Malamar does pitiful damage (with one exception, see below). Trick Room might be an area of concern, but it can certainly be stalled out by a combination of smart switching, Protect, and having a fairly bulky team overall.

Kanga is fairly easy to play around as long as we have Intimidate spam, just to be careful I usually send Landorus to Superpower it for the OHKO. They never protect or use redirection because they think I will just use Rock Slide or EQ.

Intimidate + Suicune stat drop spam is a fucking awesome concept and I'm having fun with it.

The losses:
Loss #1: I lost to a goddamn Clefairy who Snatched Suicune's Tailwind on one of the last turns and then one of their spread mons killed me. In my defense, no one really sees that coming - I knew to expect only the redirection which our team largely doesn't care about. I'll have to rewatch the battle video but I think I was just playing sloppy.

Loss #2: Close match against some other bulky goodstuffs team that came down to low health stuff vs low health stuff and Heatran was just too slow. I think it could have gone either way but my inexperience made it such that I played sloppily.

Loss #3: Some weird rain-Malamar team. They led Mawile / Malamar / Murkrow to my Thundurus / Suicune / Hitmontop. I knew what to expect but I unfortunately made the wrong call to get an early kill on Mawile because I thought it was the biggest threat to the team, sacrificing Thundurus to this end. Besides, it was Scarf Malamar trying to Rock Slide into the eternal Wide Guard so I felt pretty safe. This made it possible for Malamar to switch out, return, and get a KO on Venusaur with Psycho Cut which allowed for the rain team to plow through me. I lost and he won because of different calls on who is the biggest threat to a team, and I felt this was a good lesson.

The losses so far weren't entirely on the fault of the team and more my inexperience, but here's stuff that works and possibly areas of improvement:

- Thundurus is easily the most expendable member of the team. I like what it brings to the table but its fragility limits its versatility, not to mention that I keep finding myself in situations where I send it in for nothing because the thing I want to Taunt is on the other side of the field or I can't Taunt without getting Thundurus killed. Its typing is nice, it gets in for free on Thunder Wave, provides a nice Flying resist and immunity to EQ, and is a last resort mon that kills dangerous foes for Landorus and Heatran if Venusaur is dead. Those good qualities make it difficult to replace, but the areas of concern are its worthlessness against TR and getting killed by a lot of things without redirection.

- Taunt itself is unreliable because of positional requirements, so people can set up screens, etc. on us all day. This might be more of a problem as I continue to climb the ladder, especially if I can't throw out the stat drops fast enough.

- Suicune is MVP and far exceeds my expectations. It's a beast tank - we made the right choice giving it Sitrus Berry. Despite leading middle in almost every single game I have played, it lasts very long time if it does faint. Usually it doesn't. The more time it spends on the field, the more I can throw out stat drops to the opponent. Snarl on Sylv or random threat A where I can't get the check in on right away, Icy Wind for people who like to use Scarf Garchomp/Landorus, Scald on any physical threat or that Hitmontop/Aegi using Wide Guard (I had one person D/C on me because I burned their Belly Drum Azu on turn 1), and of course Tailwind to support the team. Suicune always has something to do; this sounds dumb but it's really the soul of this team that makes it fun to play.

- Venusaur is the glue that holds this team together: it stops rain and Fairy types and helps stall Trick Room. Sleep Powder is RNG Powder, one game it can miss 3-4 times in a row, the next game it puts the Trick Room setup to sleep while I wreck the rest of their team. However, Venusaur's defenses cannot be overstated. Psychic from Mega Garde is an OHKO, SE STAB from Meowstic and Cress will still do a dangerous amount of damage. A CB Talonflame picks, as we EV'd only to survive Sharp Beak. CB is rare overall though. Venusaur is absolutely essential to the team, so use it wisely and don't get it killed on something stupid.

- Landorus: I'm bad and all this time I keep forgetting to replace Knock Off with U-turn. Knock Off was actually integral to a win, killing a particularly annoying Cofagrigus I managed to put to sleep and then a Meowstic who had only managed to get Safeguard up. I might actually just say fuck U-Turn and keep Knock Off because of the possible value as TR disruption.

so yeah, there's a mini progress report and obviously more to come!

 

[NOVED]

I'm not sure if this team is still up for any minor changes but I have a few things I think could help the team a bit more.

I really think ancient power on heatran should be changed to Substitute or Flash Cannon. I know you're using it for Talonflame/Zard Y. But the team has a suicune, thundurus, and a scarf lando-t with feint support. I just don't see a need for ancient power since you only need it for those two mons and you already have pretty good answers for them. Flash Cannon gives you an extra STAB that doesn't get blocked by wide guard. Substitute can be really useful for getting extra turns and if you so choose,when you're behind a sub you can even use EQ with lando next to it sometimes if your balloon is no longer in tact, that's a bit sketchy but sometimes you'll really need to get an EQ off.

Also, I've read all the arguments that have been posted for running ancient power and as far as I can tell it was decided early in the team building process, before you added Thund, Landog, and suicune. So I think it's definitely more beneficial to take it out at this point. There's no need for a weak coverage move that checks only 2 mons that 3 other team members already handle themselves.

Another change I think could be a little nice is running 52 or 60 speed EVs on Mega Venu to outspeed neutral 0 speed rotoms(or 1 point over that to outspeed things trying to creep that, if you run 60). You lose a little bit of SpA but it's not a very noticeable difference imo.

 

[EnGarde]

Heatran - Sub/Flash Cannon over Ancient Power
Mega Venu - 52/60 Speed to speed creep rotom, taken from sp.atk

Hi! Thanks for your contributions! I have a full copy of the team that I can send to you. Would you be willing to take a copy to test these changes on Battle Spot and report back? If you'd like, please make your request on the distribution thread (link in sig). I don't want to clutter up this thread. ^_^

 

[EnGarde]

Hey, apologies for the double post.

There is some confusion over what kind of landorus the team is supposed to be built with. The donated one I've got on-cart is adamant, but the one listed in the OP is jolly. If we're supposed to be using jolly landorus, I'd appreciate some help from the community on getting a jolly landorus for distribution. Please remember that the landorus donated must be fully legit (RNG'd in-game, and not edited/created with pokegen/powersaves or other outside software).

EDIT: Looked back over the thread's posts, and it looks like the jolly set was decided quietly between the 4th and 5th pages. Ah well.

 

[Age of Kings]

I haven't been able to ladder lately, between VGCs and breeding for the Halloween party but I'll pick laddering back up soon. Still hovering in the early 1600s.

I'm using Adamant on the actual ladder. Did we decide on Jolly? I can donate a Jolly one if needed, that I RNG'd myself.