Don't Use That, Use This

[xzern]

approved by Arcticbutts
op stolen from the NU/RU version
art by anundeadboy

The doubles ladder is a strange, strange place. It is filled to the brim with players using bad, outclassed, or flat-out non-viable sets/gimmicks or Pokemon such as Mat Block Greninja, Beat Up + Justified combos, and Aron (gross). This thread aims to remedy this disturbing trend by showing newer players which Pokemon and sets are bad, why they are bad, and which Pokemon or sets can perform a similar role to a much better effect.​

Example post:

Don't use this:

spoontastic (Alakazam) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
Why it's bad: Alakazam is outclassed by many other psychic types in the tier, mostly because it is extremely frail and therefore vulnerable to getting killed instantly by priority moves. It also has an inferior supporting movepool compared to other psychic types and special attackers available.


Use this instead:

spoons are gay (Deoxys-Attack) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Protect
- Ice Beam
- ExtremeSpeed
Why it's better: A combination of better movepool, better stats, and priority moves, make Deoxys-A significantly less shitty than Alakazam. It can easily go mixed thanks to its great physical and special coverage options and incredible stats. Deoxys-A puts great offensive pressure on opponents and is really difficult to play around because it hits so hard.

Archive

I think one the things that draws noobs to Alakazam in Doubles is Magic Guard. However, it still sucks, as it's still too frail to take hits, and Magic Guard is only really useful for avoiding sandstorm damage - the other stuff that Magic Guard is useful for is either not common in Doubles e.g. entry hazards or an ineffective method for dealing with Alakazam e.g. burn. Definitely not enough to compensate for the many benefits that Deoxys has over Alakazam.
Another obvious example

Don't use this:

Ninetales
Ability: Drought

Why it's bad: Frail with common weaknesses, horrible SpA for a sun attacker means it's reliant on Fire-type attacks to deal damage which everyone is prepared for, outmuscled by much of the metagame. Fails miserably against every other auto-weather inducer except Abomasnow. You'd be better off using a manual settler with Sunny Day if you really don't want to use Mega Zard Y

Use this instead:

move 1: Heat Wave
move 2: Solar Beam
move 3: Focus Blast / Overheat
move 4: Protect
ability: Blaze
item: Charizardite Y
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Why it's better: Hits much, much harder than Ninetales. Actually has good special bulk. Not weak to Ground-type attacks. Can outmuscle many Pokemon that would majorly threaten Ninetales like Rotom-W thanks to Solarbeam and better special bulk, and even Heatran if running Focus Blast or Cresselia if running Overheat. Whilst it requires a Mega Stone, it's a great Mega, where as Ninetales is still not worth the moveslot

Don't use this:

Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Close Combat

Whimsicott @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tailwind
- Beat Up
- Encore
- Stun Spore

Why it's bad: Terracott, as it is more commonly known, is bad because it is predictable, and easy to prevent. Firstly, the opposition know what you are trying to do, protect + tailwind, then beat up + attack. Fake out can easily disrupt it or double attacking the whimsicott on the first turn can easily disrupt it. Terrakion is too reliant on the tailwind to be able to 'sweep', so if whimsicott didn't get tailwind up, a faster poke can easily ko terrakion. Even if the strategy works, bulky pokes, such as Landorus-T, can easily take a hit and ohko back.

Use This Instead:

Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Quick Guard

Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Protect

Why it's better: One of the main ways people deal with terrakion is intimidate. Pairing it with a defiant user, Bisharp, will make the opponent think twice about bringing in an intimidate user as it will give Bisharp a free attack boost. Bisharp is also helpful as it takes out psychic and fairy types, which have super effective STABs vs Terrakion, whilst Terrakion can take on fire types which give Bisharp problems.


e: For a lot of gimmicks (safe swag, frost breath + anger point), it is hard to do a 'use that'.

Don't Use This:

Ambipom @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Return
- Knock Off
- Low Kick

Why it's bad: Ambipom, while it hits moderately hard with Life Orb, doesn't put out enough damage to compensate for it's pathetic 75/66/66 defenses (and Focus Sash is much, much worse; your damage output is next to none without a boosting item). Ambipom doesn't do much damage after it's been intimidated and used up its Fake Out. It's also dead weight against Trick Room because of it's frailty and high 115 speed.

Use This:

Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Double-Edge / Return
- Power-Up Punch / Low Kick
- Sucker Punch

Why it's better: Mega Kangaskhan is arguably one of the best Pokemon in the Doubles Metagame right now. Well-rounded 105/85/85 defenses make it hard to OHKO without a Super-Effective attack, which is only found in one type. She hits as hard as a truck with either a STAB-boosted Double-Edge, which KOs 252/0 Wash Rotom after Fake Out through Sitrus Berry, or Return, which doesn't compromise her ridiculous bulk. Mega Kangaskhan either carries a way to beat Intimidate or nail bulky Steel Types in her Fighting Type move, and a powerful priority move in her last spot to snipe low-health threats or be useful inside of Trick Room. Like with most hard-hitting threats, it's difficult to play around her because no one wants to take a Parental-Bond boosted hit. All in all, a much better pick than Ambipom.

Archive

Don't use these

Why they're bad: walling and toxic stalling in doubles simply isn't an effective strategy. The damage toxic does each turn is small, and these Pokemon simply cannot recover/not take damage well enough to survive attacks from any 2 Pokemon on your opponents team. Even with 95 attack on Gliscor, these Pokemon just don't have the offensive presence to be considered competitiely viable on any team. While it's true that some Pokemon in doubles are used for bulky support, none of these Pokemon are usually seen with movesets that benefit the team or their partners.
Even Clefable's gimmicky Cosmic+Stored power set from OU is lackluster at best, and is easily stopped or shut down. Not to mention that it takes far too many turns to set up, and once it goes down, you've already wasted several turns, and you're a Pokemon down.

Instead, use these!

Why they're better: Bulky attacking/support is the way to go in doubles. Not only do these Pokemon have the substantial bulk you're no doubt looking for, they also offer either extreme offensive pressure or massive support towards your team (Kangaskhan & Scizor for Offence, Cresselia & Togekiss for support). You'll also notice in the movesets below that toxic is completely absent, and with good reason. If you want to wear down your opponents while avoiding taking damage, then bringing these bulky pokemon (with few weaknesses) onto your team is a must.

 

[Darkmalice]

I think one the things that draws noobs to Alakazam in Doubles is Magic Guard. However, it still sucks, as it's still too frail to take hits, and Magic Guard is only really useful for avoiding sandstorm damage - the other stuff that Magic Guard is useful for is either not common in Doubles e.g. entry hazards or an ineffective method for dealing with Alakazam e.g. burn. Definitely not enough to compensate for the many benefits that Deoxys has over Alakazam.
Another obvious example

Don't use this:

Ninetales
Ability: Drought

Why it's bad: Frail with common weaknesses, horrible SpA for a sun attacker means it's reliant on Fire-type attacks to deal damage which everyone is prepared for, outmuscled by much of the metagame. Fails miserably against every other auto-weather inducer except Abomasnow. You'd be better off using a manual settler with Sunny Day if you really don't want to use Mega Zard Y

Use this instead:

move 1: Heat Wave
move 2: Solar Beam
move 3: Focus Blast / Overheat
move 4: Protect
ability: Blaze
item: Charizardite Y
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Why it's better: Hits much, much harder than Ninetales. Actually has good special bulk. Not weak to Ground-type attacks. Can outmuscle many Pokemon that would majorly threaten Ninetales like Rotom-W thanks to Solarbeam and better special bulk, and even Heatran if running Focus Blast or Cresselia if running Overheat. Whilst it requires a Mega Stone, it's a great Mega, where as Ninetales is still not worth the moveslot

 

[Anty]

Don't use this:

Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Close Combat

Whimsicott @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tailwind
- Beat Up
- Encore
- Stun Spore

Why it's bad: Terracott, as it is more commonly known, is bad because it is predictable, and easy to prevent. Firstly, the opposition know what you are trying to do, protect + tailwind, then beat up + attack. Fake out can easily disrupt it or double attacking the whimsicott on the first turn can easily disrupt it. Terrakion is too reliant on the tailwind to be able to 'sweep', so if whimsicott didn't get tailwind up, a faster poke can easily ko terrakion. Even if the strategy works, bulky pokes, such as Landorus-T, can easily take a hit and ohko back.

Use This Instead:

Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Rock Slide
- Close Combat
- Quick Guard

Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Protect

Why it's better: One of the main ways people deal with terrakion is intimidate. Pairing it with a defiant user, Bisharp, will make the opponent think twice about bringing in an intimidate user as it will give Bisharp a free attack boost. Bisharp is also helpful as it takes out psychic and fairy types, which have super effective STABs vs Terrakion, whilst Terrakion can take on fire types which give Bisharp problems.


e: For a lot of gimmicks (safe swag, frost breath + anger point), it is hard to do a 'use that'.

 

[qsns]

Don't Use This:

Ambipom @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Return
- Knock Off
- Low Kick

Why it's bad: Ambipom, while it hits moderately hard with Life Orb, doesn't put out enough damage to compensate for it's pathetic 75/66/66 defenses (and Focus Sash is much, much worse; your damage output is next to none without a boosting item). Ambipom doesn't do much damage after it's been intimidated and used up its Fake Out. It's also dead weight against Trick Room because of it's frailty and high 115 speed.

Use This:

Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Double-Edge / Return
- Power-Up Punch / Low Kick
- Sucker Punch

Why it's better: Mega Kangaskhan is arguably one of the best Pokemon in the Doubles Metagame right now. Well-rounded 105/85/85 defenses make it hard to OHKO without a Super-Effective attack, which is only found in one type. She hits as hard as a truck with either a STAB-boosted Double-Edge, which KOs 252/0 Wash Rotom after Fake Out through Sitrus Berry, or Return, which doesn't compromise her ridiculous bulk. Mega Kangaskhan either carries a way to beat Intimidate or nail bulky Steel Types in her Fighting Type move, and a powerful priority move in her last spot to snipe low-health threats or be useful inside of Trick Room. Like with most hard-hitting threats, it's difficult to play around her because no one wants to take a Parental-Bond boosted hit. All in all, a much better pick than Ambipom.

 

[Dashspin]

Don't use this:

Malamar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Superpower
- Night Slash
- Psycho Cut
- Rock Slide

Why it's bad:
Malamar, boasting Contrary, can begin to set up while dealing some damage. More importantly, it reverses any stat changes, such as Intimidate. While this may seem to be really good, it needs tremendous support to do anything, and is weak to any kind of control from most Intimidate users anyway. Fake Out from Hitmontop will help take it down, and U-turn from Landorus-T will do a heck of a lot of damage, no matter how many boosts you have. With no resistances, one immunity, and two weaknesses, its defensive typing leaves much to be desired and hence this Pokémon falls short of fulfilling the role of a bulky set-up sweeper not weak to Intimidate. Even if you have Follow Me, you're still weak to powerful spread moves such as Charizard-Y's Heat Wave and Sylveon's Hyper Voice. Overall, this Pokémon looks good on paper, but doesn't perform at all.

Use this instead:

Bisharp @ Life Orb / Focus Sash
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Low Kick / Iron Head
- Protect

Why it's better:
This set is much more conventional because it stand on its own instead of needing significant support. It hits extremely hard right off the bat and can use a powerful Sucker Punch to OHKO Landorus-T 100% of the time after a +1 Defiant boost and 2HKO or OHKO most of the fast meta. This set isn't very bulky, but being able to hit with strong priority is its saving grace. It also outspeeds many of the slower, bulkier Pokémon that infest the <100 speed tier such as Rotom-Wash, Heatran, and Kyurem-Black. Bisharp can even gain Attack boosts from any Pokémon using Icy Wind and begin to Sucker Punch its way through a team alongside another offensive Pokémon such as the above mentioned Terrakion. Low Kick will OHKO Heatran, while Iron Head while OHKO Sylveon, both of which are very large threats to an unprepared team. Knock Off does more damage than Sucker Punch and can be used to hit Pokémon on the switch or using a status move. Overall, Bisharp is a hard-hitting physical attacker that's difficult to beat when used the right way.

 

[KyleCole]

Don't use these

Why they're bad: walling and toxic stalling in doubles simply isn't an effective strategy. The damage toxic does each turn is small, and these Pokemon simply cannot recover/not take damage well enough to survive attacks from any 2 Pokemon on your opponents team. Even with 95 attack on Gliscor, these Pokemon just don't have the offensive presence to be considered competitiely viable on any team. While it's true that some Pokemon in doubles are used for bulky support, none of these Pokemon are usually seen with movesets that benefit the team or their partners.
Even Clefable's gimmicky Cosmic+Stored power set from OU is lackluster at best, and is easily stopped or shut down. Not to mention that it takes far too many turns to set up, and once it goes down, you've already wasted several turns, and you're a Pokemon down.

Instead, use these!

Why they're better: Bulky attacking/support is the way to go in doubles. Not only do these Pokemon have the substantial bulk you're no doubt looking for, they also offer either extreme offensive pressure or massive support towards your team (Kangaskhan & Scizor for Offence, Cresselia & Togekiss for support). You'll also notice in the movesets below that toxic is completely absent, and with good reason. If you want to wear down your opponents while avoiding taking damage, then bringing these bulky pokemon (with few weaknesses) onto your team is a must.

sample movesets

Kangaskhan-Mega (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Parental Bond
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Frustration
- Sucker Punch
- Power-Up Punch

Cresselia (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 136 SpA / 60 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Helping Hand
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Ice Beam

Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 164 HP / 252 Atk / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Swords Dance
- Protect

Togekiss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 192 Def / 68 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Thunder Wave
- Follow Me
- Roost

 

[Pocket]

Clefable actually has Follow Me, which can be a bitch after defensive boosts from Cosmic Power. It also has other useful support moves, such as Encore, Helping Hand, Thunder Wave, and Safeguard. Magic Guard / Unaware are also nifty abilities.

What makes Clefable a poor-man's Togekiss is it's all-round inferiority in bulk, speed, and power.

 

[Fangame10]

Don't Use this:

Diancie @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Dazzling Gleam
- Diamond Storm
- Trick Room

Why it's bad: While Diancie may boast a high def and Sp def stat, its lack in bulk, HP, diminishes the usefulness of the high defense stats. It's overall Typing in general is bad. It has x2 weaknesses to Water, Grass and Ground, and it boasts a horrifying x4 weakness to steel, making it absolutely terrible to use as a switch in pokemon, let alone reset Trick room. These type weaknesses make Diancie worse at surviving than Rotom-W. This x4 steel weakness also hinders Trick room teams, as most teams using Trick room have a serious weakness to Bisharp, and Heatran. Bisharp can OHKO it, while Heatran can stall it to death. while it Diamond storm move may be good, it doesn't make up for it's bad defensive capabilities, and you're better off using a Glass cannon like Chandelure with a focus sash over it which can output more damage.

Instead, Use this:

Predator Drone (Cresselia) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Psychic
- Calm Mind
- Trick Room
- Moonlight

Why It's Better: Cresselia is the master of bulky Trick room set up. It has an amazing Bulk to Defense Ratio making it usually 3-2hko'd by super effective moves by tough hitters like Aegislash and Bisharp. It basically will always ensure Trick Room goes up. It Has a good recovery option of moonlight which can boost it's effectiveness on sun teams. It can also do super effective STAB damage towards major Trick room threats like Amoongus and Venusaur. It also gets access to Icy wind which can win the game by using faster pokemon. It also can use Helping hand to give strong sweepers like sylveon a huge boost in power. With more bulk, diverse support, and a better typing, Cressilia is definitely better than Diancie.

 

[finally]

Don't Use this:

Diancie @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Dazzling Gleam
- Diamond Storm
- Trick Room
Why it's bad: While Diancie may boast a high def and Sp def stat, its lack in bulk, HP, diminishes the usefulness of the high defense stats. It's overall Typing in general is bad. It has x2 weaknesses to Water, Grass and Ground, and it boasts a horrifying x4 weakness to steel, making it absolutely terrible to use as a switch in pokemon, let alone reset Trick room. These type weaknesses make Diancie worse at surviving than Rotom-W. This x4 steel weakness also hinders Trick room teams, as most teams using Trick room have a serious weakness to Bisharp, and Heatran. Bisharp can OHKO it, while Heatran can stall it to death. while it Diamond storm move may be good, it doesn't make up for it's bad defensive capabilities, and you're better off using a Glass cannon like Chandelure with a focus sash over it which can output more damage.
Instead, Use this:

Predator Drone (Cresselia) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Psychic
- Calm Mind
- Trick Room
- Moonlight

Why It's Better: Cresselia is the master of bulky Trick room set up. It has an amazing Bulk to Defense Ratio making it usually 3-2hko'd by super effective moves by tough hitters like Aegislash and Bisharp. It basically will always ensure Trick Room goes up. It Has a good recovery option of moonlight which can boost it's effectiveness on sun teams. It can also do super effective STAB damage towards major Trick room threats like Amoongus and Venusaur. It also gets access to Icy wind which can win the game by using faster pokemon. It also can use Helping hand to give strong sweepers like sylveon a huge boost in power. With more bulk, diverse support, and a better typing, Cressilia is definitely better than Diancie.

i think you overemphasize the downsides of rock typing's defensive weaknesses. you have to remember rock types have a lot of weaknesses in order to balance out how many things they hit super effectively.
i dont understand your mention of heatran being able to stall out diancie to death when it walls cresselia too. diancie at least gets to hit it for STAB neutral damage, while cress has to rely on hp ground which is hard to fit on a cm, tr, psychic, recovery of some sort set which you seem to emphasize. perhaps mention that heatran usually beats both of them.
your mention of icy wind and helping hand are confusing because this cresselia is a calm mind moonlight set instead of a set which sets up trick room and helping hand's offensive trick room abusers like rhyperior or abomasnow. if you wanted to emphasize cresselia's supporting capabilties, i think a better set would be psychic, trick room, helping hand, ice beam/icy wind
perhaps a better dont use that would be like beeheyem or hypno over diancie seeing as those two are almost always inferior to cress, while diancie does still in fact boast a valuable mix of offensive and defensive capabilities (600 bst with good offensive rock typing and good defending fairy typing.)
and you can always pack your own (lvl 99) -0 speed heatran to beat opposing heatran and bisharp to help patchup tr's weakness to those two :]]

 

[piikaa]

Don't Use this:

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Dragon Dance
- ExtremeSpeed
- Fire Punch
Why not to use it: Dragonite is one of the best dragons around no doubt, with its amazing Multiscale ability letting it survive almost every super-effective hit as long as it's not critted, but due to Doubles' nature of multi-targeting, it just can't fit in the Meta. Setting up DDance can be reliable, but scarfed Pokemon exist, and Dragonite's only viable multi-target moves can't hit flying/Levitate Pokemon, giving Pokemon like Rotom and Talonflame to Will-O-Wisp as they please.

Use this instead:

Salamence @ Choice Scarf/Choice Specs
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Hydro Pump
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Pulse
Why it's better: Salamence is a monster, destroying foes in its path, leaving nothing remaining. The reason it's better is the fact that it has more coverage than certain other dragons Dragonite. With its Intimidate ability, it can lower the attack of various threats like Garchomp and Landorus-T. With the Choice Scarf, it can kill Garchomp, Latios, and other Scarf Hydreigon with no problem at all using Draco Meteor. Using Fire Blast, it can take care of Ice and Steel types like Weavile and Ferrothorn. Hydro Pump ruins Landorus, which can't do much back considering -1 Stone Edge or Rock Slide can't knock it out. Dragon Pulse is for Pokemon that really don't need to be Draco'd because it'd be a waste of PP and SpAtk. So with more Speed, Coverage and overall Power, Salamence is clearly the better choice.

 

[piikaa]

Don't use this:
Pinsir-Mega @ Pinsirite
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Feint
- Quick Attack
- X-Scissor
Why not to use it: Mega Pinsir is a great Pokemon, but it's use in doubles are very limited, and it has many noticable flaws that prevent it from being what it is in OU. For starters, it's typing gets ruined by anything stronger that outspeeds it, like Scarf Landorus-T, that can easily come in, Intimidate it, and Rock Slide it into oblivion. Latios can come in, take a Quick Attack guaranteed at full health, and retaliate with a Draco or Psyshock. Also Mega-Zard X completely destroys it, entirely.

Use this instead:

or

Scizor @ Life Orb/Scizorite/Leftovers/Lum Berry
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Protect
- Feint
- Swords Dance
Why it's better: Mega Scizor has everything Mega Pinsir wishes it had. Excluding the 4x weakness of course. Scizor has much more it can do, but the Mega isn't as viable considering it's outclassed by Mega Mawile, so regular Scizor is more used. So Scizor, it can beat Mega Pinsir 1v1. It can also take more hits than it, including Latios, and can hold it's own against Landorus. It is also a better Feint user because of Technician. It also smashes Togekiss instead of getting smashed by it, and it only needs to worry about burn because it's Immune to Poison, and you won't be running speed unless you're speed creeping.

 

[Indie Flop]

I disagree with that last one. Not that Mega-Pin is the greatest or anything, but the two serve completely, utterly different roles, and one shouldn't really compare the two in terms of replacement in roles. I feel a better replacement suggestion for Mega-Pin would be Talonflame, whose similar typing and role allow it to perform much better than Mega-Pin in the same role, while also having a few semi-viable alternates. So, without further ado, here my DUTUT for Mega-Pinsir:

Don't use this:

Pinsir-Mega @ Pinsirite
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Feint
- Quick Attack
- X-Scissor

But, why?: Mega-Pinsir suffers from the same problems as Talonflame and Skymin in its lack of an effective spread move, its weakness to said spread moves, setting up not being as effective in Dubs, etc, but without as many redeeming qualities. While it is a great revenge killer with powerful priority, its priority isn't powerful enough in terms of BP. Additionally, it suffers from a sort of 4MSS in Doubles that isn't present in Singles due to running both Protect and Feint in its role. Overall, it is outclassed by other Flying-types, and in preparing for other threats teams are almost always prepared for it.

Use this instead:

Talonflame @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost/Tailwind/Will-O-Wisp
- Protect

But, why?: A combination of better coverage, better support options, and FREAKIN' STAB 120 BP FLYORITY make Talon a superior Mega-Pin in almost every way. BB and Flare Blitz are obligatory on offensive Talonflame (because Flyority Offense is the role we're replacing.) Protect is a general standard for Doubles as it both enhances and eases prediction. The last slot is up to what your team needs, be it more Talon, faster everything, or a Physical check (I'm looking at you, Mega-Kangaskhan,) respectively. Additionally, using Talonflame over Mega-Pinsir allows you to utilize another Mega at almost no expense at all. The main thing, though, is still the insanely more powerful Flyority (and some support priority, which is pretty rad!)

TL;DR: Better priority and coverage leave Mega-Pinsir completely outclassed by Talonflame, and you'll be able to run another Mega.

 

[piikaa]

Oh true, I never really thought about it like that, but both get bopped by Lando-T, so they need something to pair it up with.

I disagree with that last one. Not that Mega-Pin is the greatestor anything, but the two serve completely, utterly different roles, and one shouldn't really compare the two in terms of replacement in roles. I feel a better replacement suggestion for Mega-Pin would be Talonflame, whose similar typing and role allow it to perform much better thsn Mega-Pin in the same role, while also having a few semi-viable alternates. So, without further ado, here my DUTUT for Mega-Pinsir:

Don't use this:

Pinsir-Mega @ Pinsirite
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Feint
- Quick Attack
- X-Scissor

But, why?: Mega-Pinsir suffers from the same problems as Talonflame and Skymin in its lack of an effective spread move, its weakness to said spread moves, setting up not being as effective in Dubs, etc, but without as many redeeming qualities. While it is a great revenge killer with powerful priority, its priority isn't powerful enough in terms of BP. Additionally, it suffers from a sort of 4MSS in Doubles that isn't present in Singles due to running both Protect and Feint in its role. Overall, it is outclassed by other Flying-types, and in preparing for other threats teams are almost always prepared for it.

Use this instead:

Talonflame @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost/Tailwind/Will-O-Wisp
- Protect

But, why?: A combination of better coverage, better support options, and FREAKIN' STAB 120 BP FLYORITY make Talon a superior Mega-Pin in almost every way. BB and Flare Blitz are obligatory on offensive Talonflame (because Flyority Offense is the role we're replacing.) Protect is a general standard for Doubles as it both enhances and eases prediction. The last slot is up to what your team needs, be it more Talon, faster everything, or a Physical check (I'm looking at you, Mega-Kangaskhan,) respectively. Additionally, using Talonflame over Mega-Pinsir allows you to utilize another Mega at almost no expense at all. The main thing, though, is still the insanely more powerful Flyority (and some support priority, which is pretty rad!)

TL;DR: Better priority and coverage leave Mega-Pinsir completely outclassed by Talonflame, and you'll be a le to run another Mega.

 

[Stratos]

dont use that pinsir set listed above, use this one:

Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Feint
- Return
- Close Combat

this set is not 100% outclassed by talonflame because it has a flying-type move that is nearly twice as strong (Before items) and doesnt ko itself when it attacks, and because feint is a cool utility move, and because it beats heatran if it hits it on the switch, and because it has more bulk. this set is not outclassed by that scizor set because seriously, what the fuck is that scizor set? feint and bullet punch = you're walled by anything that resists steel, and furthermore, you do very little damage. that being said, make sure you do not overrate pinsir—flying is amazing offensive coverage but its defensive typing is poor, and it only has single-target moves, and many of the relevant calcs for this mon fall just short of an ohko. also it's really prediction-heavy due to the feint/return thing.

don't use that scizor set listed above, use this one:

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 164 HP / 252 Atk / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Swords Dance
- Bug Bite / Knock Off
- Bullet Punch

bug bite over feint means that you do actual damage to things every once in a while; speed EVs are to beat rotom and bug bite it for the KO at +2 before you are burnt. knock off can be used, it's about 2/3 as strong when it's hitting opponents with items but it hits fires for neutral (still doesnt help with zard), beats aegislash, and removes all items not just berries.

don't use that mence set listed above, use this one:

Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Tailwind / Hydro Pump
- Fire Blast
- Protect

you should use this over the vgcesque scarfmence for a couple reasons. one is that garchomp is not at 50% usage so you dont need a scarf like you do in vgc, so youre better off using life orb. another is that you want to be able to use tailwind, which mence gets unlike in vgc, though i guess hydro pump isnt a bad option because Heatran exists. still, make sure you dont overrate this mon because its only mediocre, as it has a worse defensive typing, special attack, and speed than latios (only used because of its better coverage and intimidate—make sure you need it—and if youre only using it for better coverage and the power is a bit low then try hydrei as well, only really misses a fighting resistance)

 

[piikaa]

You never explained why Scizor needs Light Metal, it doesn't need it, there is no Grass Knot, and very little Low Kick roaming around in Doubles. All the other sets I agree with perfectly, but I don't understand the need for Light Metal over Technician. Explain please.

dont use that pinsir set listed above, use this one:

Pinsir @ Pinsirite
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Feint
- Return
- Close Combat

this set is not 100% outclassed by talonflame because it has a flying-type move that is nearly twice as strong (Before items) and doesnt ko itself when it attacks, and because feint is a cool utility move, and because it beats heatran if it hits it on the switch, and because it has more bulk. this set is not outclassed by that scizor set because seriously, what the fuck is that scizor set? feint and bullet punch = you're walled by anything that resists steel, and furthermore, you do very little damage. that being said, make sure you do not overrate pinsir—flying is amazing offensive coverage but its defensive typing is poor, and it only has single-target moves, and many of the relevant calcs for this mon fall just short of an ohko. also it's really prediction-heavy due to the feint/return thing.

don't use that scizor set listed above, use this one:

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 164 HP / 252 Atk / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Swords Dance
- Bug Bite / Knock Off
- Bullet Punch

bug bite over feint means that you do actual damage to things every once in a while; speed EVs are to beat rotom and bug bite it for the KO at +2 before you are burnt. knock off can be used, it's about 2/3 as strong when it's hitting opponents with items but it hits fires for neutral (still doesnt help with zard), beats aegislash, and removes all items not just berries.

don't use that mence set listed above, use this one:

Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Tailwind / Hydro Pump
- Fire Blast
- Protect

you should use this over the vgcesque scarfmence for a couple reasons. one is that garchomp is not at 50% usage so you dont need a scarf like you do in vgc, so youre better off using life orb. another is that you want to be able to use tailwind, which mence gets unlike in vgc, though i guess hydro pump isnt a bad option because Heatran exists. still, make sure you dont overrate this mon because its only mediocre, as it has a worse defensive typing, special attack, and speed than latios (only used because of its better coverage and intimidate—make sure you need it—and if youre only using it for better coverage and the power is a bit low then try hydrei as well, only really misses a fighting resistance)

 

[qsns]

You never explained why Scizor needs Light Metal, it doesn't need it, there is no Grass Knot, and very little Low Kick roaming around in Doubles. All the other sets I agree with perfectly, but I don't understand the need for Light Metal over Technician. Explain please.

You literally have no reason to not mega evolve before attacking, so you might as well take half damage from switching into grass knot/low kick. it rarely, rarely ever matters but eh

 

[Indie Flop]

Oh true, I never really thought about it like that, but both get bopped by Lando-T, so they need something to pair it up with.

Also, I'd like to know which Physical threats (barring Bisharp) don't get bopped by Landog...

 

[Laga]

-1 252+ Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T in Sun: 324-382 (101.2 - 119.3%)

I am completely serious, scarf Darmanitan in sun does not fuck around

edit: and Pwnemon is right, Mega Pinsir has it's merits

edit 2: azumarill is also legit. Edit 3: laga is lame Mizuhime rules

edit 4: mizu pls =[

 

[Indie Flop]

Holy f-itty f.

That kinda makes me wanna build a Darmanitan team. Have any of y'all ever seen a team even with him on it?

EDIT: A viable team?

 

[realiti]

Holy f-itty f.

That kinda makes me wanna build a Darmanitan team. Have any of y'all ever seen a team even with him on it?

EDIT: A viable team?

nope nope

 

[Indie Flop]

I think I just built one, guys. Imma RMT it later today.