Metagame Trends

[Ernesto]

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 221-261 (64.8 - 76.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Nice rolls imo :o . Also for BP or Iron Tail, if it was in fact defensive Kiss, you could just as easily set up a second SD and KO with BP:

+4 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Togekiss: 374-439 (100.2 - 117.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Lucario: 127-150 (45.1 - 53.3%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Togekiss Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Lucario: 248-292 (88.2 - 103.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO that's the only thing you should be scared of when running bp.

Or you could BP twice if you were scared it'd be offensive (hard to tell from his team imo, but leaning towards defensive or at least bulky)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 351-413 (112.8 - 132.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Togekiss: 250-296 (67 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (meaning there's no chance to get Roost stalled).

So basically Iron Tail only really works if you wanna kill the defensive fairies without taking damage back that could stop your sweep, but tbh that can be easily solved with HW support (same can be said for basically all set up sweepers obviously, but Luke has the advantage of being able to do really well against both defensive and offensive teams in one moveset).

 

[Crimson]

Has anyone been sleeping on SD Lucario?

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-161664182

Because you shouldn't sleep on SD Lucario.

That was me you were playing. To me, it was a 50/50, because I know Blissey is set up fodder for Lucario. My Blissey has T-wave and I was getting ready to click, but at the last second decided to switch. Had I followed my gut, I would crippled Luc for the rest of the game. And you'd have to reply on not getting Para and then dying.

It was either Click T-wave as you CC and I lose Blissey. Or I switch to Toge as you CC and eat it and then go from there. Wasn't sure how aggressive you were going to be at that time.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Even Max/Max+ Pert dies to +2 CC after any prior damage so it isn't a check unless it is Scarf Pert (lolwut). Lucario is a definite threat to look out for and part of the reason why Fire Punch Rachi is so good atm.

Shh we can't tell anyone about scafpert :o

 

[Schpoonman]

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 221-261 (64.8 - 76.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Nice rolls imo :o . Also for BP or Iron Tail, if it was in fact defensive Kiss, you could just as easily set up a second SD and KO with BP:

+4 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Togekiss: 374-439 (100.2 - 117.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Lucario: 127-150 (45.1 - 53.3%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Togekiss Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Lucario: 248-292 (88.2 - 103.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO that's the only thing you should be scared of when running bp.

Or you could BP twice if you were scared it'd be offensive (hard to tell from his team imo, but leaning towards defensive or at least bulky)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 351-413 (112.8 - 132.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Togekiss: 250-296 (67 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (meaning there's no chance to get Roost stalled).

So basically Iron Tail only really works if you wanna kill the defensive fairies without taking damage back that could stop your sweep, but tbh that can be easily solved with HW support (same can be said for basically all set up sweepers obviously, but Luke has the advantage of being able to do really well against both defensive and offensive teams in one moveset).

Oh, shit. Didn't know I got that THAT lucky with the roll. Also, what's "HW" support? My brain is off for some reason and I want to say it stands for "Hunting Wave," which sounds like an Arte from a Tales game but I've never played any that have one called that.

 

[Meru]

Healing Wish support from Shaymin, Jirachi, Celebi, or my favorite, Alomomola B)

 

[Sage]

Healing Wish is really freaking cool, it lets you play very aggressively with your win condition in the early game with almost no consequences. Cresselia, Shaymin, Sunfish, Jirachi, all good users, although Rachi struggles to fit it into the moveset. The healing coming before hazards is amazing.

 

[Qwilphish]

Offensive Dugtrio (i.e. not focus sash) got a lot better this shift. Due to the introduction of Togekiss and rise of the other shifts , and thus, the rise of Electric-types (Ampharos, Raikou) and Steel Types (Jirachi, Empoleon), Dugtrio targets are now much more common.

There are also other targets which Dugtrio can eliminate with ease such as, the Nidos, Florges, Blissey, and revenge killing Victini after it kills something with V-Create. Personally, I prefer CB on Dugtrio as not that much can set up for free on a CB EQ (only one that comes to mind is Togekiss) and that extra boost in power and the lack of recoil over LO is very necessary as Dugtrio is surprisingly able to take most priority from full health (Luke LO ES, Mienshao LO Fake Out, Toxicroak Sucker Punch).

Writing on my phone right now so kind of hard to put cohesive thoughts together lmao but here is the set that I've been using:

Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
Nature: Jolly
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Sucker Punch
-Aerial Ace

EQ and SE are obvious. Sucker Punch is fast priority that hits surprisingly hard on neutral targets. Aerial Ace can be replaced with something like Memento but I like it because you can hit Chesnaught (another pokemon that has gotten better) for an upwards of 50% iirc

 

[Meru]

Another thing that's been booming with creativity and popularity is Suicune

As one of the most recent Next Best Things, Suicune has recently earned quite a spotlight. Now that CMbro isn't countering every single one of its sets, water dog has been given a lot more freedom in surprise value. SubCM, CMrest 2 attack, all have been working on various teams that I've seen, and the increased versatility has made Suicune much more of a threat. Ice Beam in general has gotten a lot better on Suicune now that its most common checks are Grass-types, and even the most specially defensive Grass-types used as offensive checks to Suicune take a decent chunk from it.

 

[Mahmudkipz]

Another thing that's been booming with creativity and popularity is Suicune

As one of the most recent Next Best Things, Suicune has recently earned quite a spotlight. Now that CMbro isn't countering every single one of its sets, water dog has been given a lot more freedom in surprise value. SubCM, CMrest 2 attack, all have been working on various teams that I've seen, and the increased versatility has made Suicune much more of a threat. Ice Beam in general has gotten a lot better on Suicune now that its most common checks are Grass-types, and even the most specially defensive Grass-types used as offensive checks to Suicune take a decent chunk from it.

I'd like to add that with the addition of Ice Beam on Suicune, it pairs up with Dugtrio even better as Dugtrio can trap and kill almost all Suicune checks and counters except the rare Rotom-C (who can trick Suicune a scarf before dying to an Ice Beam) as Grass types are no longer a safe switch in to Suicune.

 

[Kink]

Wanted to offer another experimental trend that I've been using on my Dark Horse Team:

Alomomola @ Rocky Helmet/Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 232 HP / 156 Def / 120 SpD
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect

This is an alomomola that is designed to beat scarf hydreigon. Some calcs for you fine people will show that even strong attackers will have a hard time breaking through this wall. This, in conjunction with wish/protect + knock off/toxic makes this a really strong utility mon. This set helped me get B-rank in the Dark Horse Project, where I faced many, many hydreigon. Try it out for your team if you need that extra push for semi-stall.

252+ SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 232 HP / 120 SpD Alomomola: 211-249 (39.8 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 232 HP / 120 SpD Alomomola: 343-405 (64.8 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

This alomomola can still take physical hits pretty well too :o

252+ Atk Life Orb Machamp Dynamic Punch vs. 232 HP / 156+ Def Alomomola: 214-253 (40.4 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

I will add more centralizing replays soon.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-164827262

 

[Ernesto]

I like your use of Alomo on that first replay .–.

 

[Kink]

I like your use of Alomo on that first replay .–.

Thank-you, I wouldn't have even noticed.

 

[DiscoDucky]

I don't know if my statement's true to the high ladder (I haven't played on my main alt in weeks), but I find that VoltTurn Offense is really potent in this metagame, especially HydRachi. Analytically, Jirachi and Hydreigon make a really good base for a Volt-Turn team simply because of their typing synergy. Furthermore, the combination of Hydreigon's power and Jirachi's utility makes the core very hard to handle in my opinion.

 

[Kink]

Krookodile @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 120 Atk / 48 Def / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Taunt

Crobat @ Black Sludge
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 120 HP / 212 Atk / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Roost
- Taunt

AND

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252HP / 180 Def / 76 SpD OR 220HP / 192 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Baton Pass
- Wish
- Protect

 

[Shaymin :D]

Krookodile @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 120 Atk / 48 Def / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Taunt

Used this Krook during Research Week, turned it into a standard taunt set for my 3.0 team. Beats all other krooks (cause of bulk up). 2kos M-Blastoise after +1. Shuts down Forretress/wishstall (non-fairy), beats band Victini/Darmanitan 1vs1 after -1 Intimidate. Speed creeps 243, which creeps 242'ers creeping Honchkrow.

That's an interesting set you have there. I'm not very good at UU, as I've just started looking at it, so what do you think are some good teammates? Thanks!

 

[Kink]

That's an interesting set you have there. I'm not very good at UU, as I've just started looking at it, so what do you think are some good teammates? Thanks!

Crobat @ Black Sludge
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 120 HP / 212 Atk / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Roost
- Taunt

• Survives Scarfgon Draco-Meteor and Roosts. Beats it 1vs1 (scout first though :3)

AND

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252HP / 180 Def / 76 SpD OR 220HP / 192 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Baton Pass
- Wish
- Protect

• Difference between the EVs has to do with Raikou. Option two is better, is it better helps against Scarf Thunderbolt. Option 1 is better against the rest of the metagame, though the difference is minimal (~1% damage).

This results in a pass-turn pivot core that allows you to shutdown most set-up sweepers, namely crocune.

 

[Bouff]

not letting this thread die, nonono

Whimsicott @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Energy Ball
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- U-turn

This set has seen an obscene amount of play lately, both in the higher ladder and in tournaments, due to its ability to check a very large portion of the metagame by virtue of its typing; in particular, the likes of Mega Ampharos, Hydreigon, Suicune, Zygarde, Vaporeon, Krookodile, Chesnaught, Absol, and more are the main ones that come to mind. It mainly finds its place on bulky offensive and balanced teams, as it can switch into a lot of common offensive types (well except Fire-types), and force them out by its good defensive typing and high speed stat. While 77 might seem pretty bad with a Choice Specs, it actually hits pretty hard on the targets it needs to, and punishes Fighting-types like Machamp and Mienshao, while also keeping up offensive momentum with U-turn.

In all honesty, I think Life Orb is better than Specs on this thing, but I decided to post the Specs set since it's more common, and after all, this is a /trends/ thread. You can also use a variant with Leftovers to make Whims bulkier by a small margin, but if you do that then I would suggest running Stun Spore or Encore with Prankster over Infiltrator to take advantage of its defensiev capabilities.

 

[Meru]

Kink needs to stop posting his shit cores and actually post *trends* in ladder play/tournaments. Thank you Bouff.

I would prefer Life Orb too but the power difference does mean for some noticeable KOs, and Life Orb means Whimsicott can't stick around long enough to check what it needs to, so it's the best compromise. The amount of stuff it checks is insane. In addition to what you mentioned, there's Mega Blastoise, Swampert, Sableye, and even more that isn't coming to mind right this moment. I might give Pixie Plate Whimsicott a try, as that sounds like it could work too, as a strong and fast Moonblast is the main thing you want, due to Fairy-typing being really good at punishing all of the common attacking types at the moment.

252 SpA Pixie Plate Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 354-416 (106.9 - 125.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I'll post some more Metagame trends that I've been observing later this week.

 

[DiscoDucky]

To tag on, many bong cores (Vap + Maggron) I've seen lately also run Offensive Whimsicott.

Furthermore, this is what I've been observing, but the meta seems to be leaning toward a more Balanced playstyle, which cores such as Vaporeon + Aggron-Mega and Tentacruel + Hazard Setter + Sableye seeing great success in games.

 

[dodmen]

Toxic Spikes + set up sweeper (like Sub CM Suicune, Sub Coil Zygarde, Curselax) is pretty solid right now. These sweepers take advantage of balanced teams with more passive mons (Vaporeon, Gligar, Florges) as well as their useful resists to set up while the opponent tries to break your sub and deal with the poison damage at the same time. Tspike + SubCM Cune is probably my favorite thing to use right now, and I can't wait to use Tspike in conjunction with CM Mega Sableye which I think will be even more effective.

The Tspikes users I've had the most success with are Roserade (Offensive LO with Sleep Powder + dual STAB) and, surprisingly, Nidoking. Nidoking might seem like an unconventional one but offensive teams have a tendency to switch around weirdly when it's in front of them and of course it forces switches vs defensive teams as well, so it's got plenty of opportunities to set them up. Not to mention it threatens the fuck out of Crobat and other defoggers (Gligar, Empoleon) unlike Roserade, and also beats most other poison types that want to absorb your Tspikes (winning vs Roserade depends on its spread and prior damage).

 

[Ernesto]

Dodmen speaks truth. Tbf, T-spikes + bulky setup sweeper has been good for a long time (ever since Bliss dropped imo; simply for its tendency to be setup bait for Rose and Nidos), but particularly since Mew left, it's extremely good. I personally prefer Nidoqueen over Rose because she can fend off Defoggers with Ice Beam—or EP in penguin's case—, but Rose's Sleep threat definitely makes up for it; especially considering you don't really need to Synthesis against Bliss when Giga recovers like 40% of your health, lol.

Best thing about it, tho, is how even just one layer can be enough support, especially for SubCoil Ziggy / Roar CM Cune—altho Cune will generally prefer Ice Beam when not Cro, mostly because of Ziggy but also basically everything else. And yea, with Mega Sable it could be deadlier yet, considering opposing Sables are kept at bay by Rose/Nidos even if they've already Mevo'd.

 

[kokoloko]

idk what exact spread people have been using but, much to my dismay as i thingk gligar is fucking garbdix, SpD gligar has been a thing recently.

im assuming its something like:

Gligar (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Immunity / Hyper Cutter (no immunity + defog :[)
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 244 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Roost
- Stealth Rock / Defog

i still think it sucks dix but its a trend so,,,

checks hydreigon pretty well and its surprisingly good at keeping momentum via u-turn. switch moves in general are really good on superbulky walls like this one since they force a ton of switches. my main issue with gligar is that it had a big chance to lose to machamp since you're doing like 1/3 with EQ and lose fighting resist when roosting, not to mention the confusion, so yeah...

 

[DiscoDucky]

idk what exact spread people have been using but, much to my dismay as i thingk gligar is fucking garbdix, SpD gligar has been a thing recently.

im assuming its something like:

Gligar (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Immunity / Hyper Cutter (no immunity + defog :[)
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 244 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Roost
- Stealth Rock / Defog

i still think it sucks dix but its a trend so,,,

checks hydreigon pretty well and its surprisingly good at keeping momentum via u-turn. switch moves in general are really good on superbulky walls like this one since they force a ton of switches. my main issue with gligar is that it had a big chance to lose to machamp since you're doing like 1/3 with EQ and lose fighting resist when roosting, not to mention the confusion, so yeah...

Tentacles + Gligar + Sableye creates a pretty good Hazard Core for balance teams.

 

[Lucipurrr]

Krookodile @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 120 Atk / 48 Def / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Taunt

- Protect

I've been running Scarf Krook, and it's been working wonders for me.
I ran your Krook set from the Quote in the UUST and it didn't quite do the job for me.

Krookodile @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Dragon Claw
- Rock Slide

 

[Chronobreak]

Alright, bumping this thread, as I believe it deserves to stay alive.

With the introduction of the new drops, the meta has become a lot more offensive. Heracross has surged to become the most powerful heartbreaker in the entire tier, having next to no switchins with a flame Orb swords dance set, nailing potential counters that may wall it's STABS with a facade. In addition, salamence is also one of the most influential mons in the tier as well, not only being a reliable Dragon dancer, but having a niche as an alternative scarfer to the likes of mienshao and hydreigon, and having a very good fat mence set as well, countering a lot of threatening physical attackers in the meta