ORAS General Discussion - Mark 2 - Spoilers Inside

[Salemance]

View attachment 26054
I feel so late to posting, but Mega Sharpedo looks like some type of missile. That's 99.9% the concept design though, I will admit that. M-Sharpedo is definitely built to resemble some sort of aerodynamic beast, possibly like that of a Saw fish? It reminds me of both a Saw Fish and also a Great white, but more so the Saw Fish.

I'm honestly more than a little worried about the future tiering and how this will affect the metagame, just from concept designs alone this thing looks like a beast. (I can only hope that it still gets Speed Boost, that was a killer ability!)

As for Mega Camerupt, I'm actually kind of disappointed with what GF did. I was expecting something completely badass, like a Torkoal/Camerupt hybrid. Smoke billowing, maybe some dripping lava.. that would've made the entire thing better. But, I'll give GF props and admit that they didn't do too terrible! It still looks kind of cool, even if I am feeling like it has a constipated expression from the Serebii Scans.

Forgive me tho, but even if Sharpedo has horrendous defenses, it can still potentially grab a speed boost on one turn, then mega the next right? Sure that might mean keeping protect on the move set, but if it were to get pseudo-STAB BoltBeam + Crunch the coverage wouldn't be that bad to miss. I think.

Also the recent names of some of the moves are making em sound a lot more, epic/powerful I guess. Idk, but the idea of a move being called Cliff's Blade sounds both intimidating and odd to me.

 

[Siggu]

Something I just glanced is that Camerupt's movepool does not glue with Sheer Force at all. Apart from its primary STAB moves, Iron Head and Rock Slide... hardly anything else. It's gonna need an upgrade if its mega wants to be useful

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

This and the last thread have proven that relying entirely on precedent leads to being incorrect. Plus... I don't think we ever had a Mega whose typing is entirely different from the base stage's first form, hm? //Altaria
Not having fairy moves is no problem. Heracross got Pin Missile, Rock Blast etc., Blastoise got Aura Sphere and the Pulse Moves, Ampharos got Dragon Pulse...

I'm not saying that that typing change is impossible, just look at Gyarados, but there's literally no reason to expect it, so I was trying to shoot it down.

And what do we do other than to predict based on precedent. We may have been wrong a lot, but we did so in a logical way and I'd rather be wrong in a logical way than right by complete chance. Give me a few good reasons to not follow precedent in this case, and I'm ok, but I didn't see any reason besides some coincidence about every 3rd mega getting fairy.

Also,

Noo-ooo, Are you serious? Wally's Pokemon is Gallade over Gardevoir in the remake? There is something that I got to say. FUCK, FUCK, FUCK, FUCK, FUCK. Gardevoir is so much more superior, at least she gets to use her movepool while the other one doesn't.

Archie's & Maxie's mega Pokemon is not Crobat? It is Mega Sharpedo and Mega Camerupt instead? Aww SHIT, SHIT, SHIT, SHIT, SHIT!

Well, on the other hand. Like the news about Primal Kyogre & Groudon. Sea of Beginnings and Land of Endings. If I had to take a guess what it does... There are permanent weather. And Land of Endings may boost ground attacks as well.

What was the point of this extremely biased wish/bitch list?

 

[Salemance]

Something I just glanced is that Camerupt's movepool does not glue with Sheer Force at all. Apart from its primary STAB moves, Iron Head and Rock Slide... hardly anything else. It's gonna need an upgrade if its mega wants to be useful

I mean, it has the bare minimum of a special movepool to use against things. Focus Blast, Fire move, Earth Power......... It doesn't quite have the options of say Nidoking yah but it has some usable moves.

 

[sickweare]

Something I just glanced is that Camerupt's movepool does not glue with Sheer Force at all. Apart from its primary STAB moves, Iron Head and Rock Slide... hardly anything else. It's gonna need an upgrade if its mega wants to be useful

Considering it has wonderful dual STAB moves to work with it, I think it'll do alright.

 

[KingHeracrossTheBug]

I didn't call as a species, I just described as what I see, is a cammel covered in whool, so is a whooly cammel, I'm so sorry for no calling the animals for their specific specie.

The first time a kid saw a tarantula, he will call it "a spider covered with whool" or "Whooly spider" for give a description. And still is not a slug.


Edit:

Errata: Camel*

Edit2:

"Megapedo" on spanish "Pedo" means "fart" xD

You mean wooly, right?

PS: I don't care if I get ninja'd on this ok?

 

[noknuckles]

At any rate, if Fairy, then Pixilate, Play Rough, and or another Fairy move new in ORAS are all possibilities.

It gets Dazzling Gleam. Fairy STAB! Kinda like how Dedenne has Fairy STAB in Play Rough

It wouldn't surprise me if Gamefreak gave Gallade a nice new fairy typing and only gave it Dazzling Gleam to play with

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Gallade's the interesting one. I desperately hope it gets a fighting version of pixilate, because it has the bulk to be a very good attacker even without especially good speed, and returns over CCs would be amazing. It's got SD to sweep defensive teams, shadow sneak for revenge killing, maybe bulk up sets, and great coverage. I don't see it not being just as good as Gardevoir.

DON'T FORGET WISP AND KNOCK OFF.

Oh dear. I guess I mucked up what I was trying to get across. I was saying that there are probably defensive megas coming in the remakes. The reason why that most mega are being used offensively is that A) they can't hold normal items that a wall would have B) Some people find "wasting" you mega slot on a defensive pokemon silly and prefer to use them as offensive pokemon and C) Many megas are frail pokemon anyway.

The post I was originally replying to said they were sick of offensive megas. I was offering an example of how slowbro and audino can fit that bill but regardless of whatever GF does to them, a mega as a wall could theoretically be difficult but I would like to see it pulled off.

No one said that there hasn't been defensive megas revealed. It's just that:
-Metagross' ability just lets it hit harder
-Sharpedo's ability just lets it hit harder
-Camerupt's ability just lets it hit harder
-Salamence's ability just lets it hit harder (with Flying STAB)
-Altaria's ability just lets it hit harder (with Fairy STAB)

We're left with six revealed megas without an ability that's not a literal %boost to damage, and two of them (Scrappy and Swift Swim) are offensive in nature anyway.

They're all getting just straight up damage boosts. I know a lot of it has to do with the fact that they can't hold an item, but still, it just seems really uncreative, and this was the case with the last batch of megas (Tough Claws/Parental Bond/Aerialate/Pixilate/Huge|Pure Power/Solar Power/Drought/etc.) Of course this doesn't prevent people from using them defensively (ALTARIA IS GOD,) but Gamefreak's intent was obvious.

 

[SenshiSam]

Mega Machamp leak [jk]

You mean wooly, right?

PS: I don't care if I get ninja'd on this ok?

Thanks for the correction! Yeah, that was I mean. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[awiec]

DON'T FORGET WISP AND KNOCK OFF.



No one said that there hasn't been defensive megas revealed. It's just that:
-Metagross' ability just lets it hit harder
-Sharpedo's ability just lets it hit harder
-Camerupt's ability just lets it hit harder
-Salamence's ability just lets it hit harder (with Flying STAB)
-Altaria's ability just lets it hit harder (with Fairy STAB)

We're left with six revealed megas without an ability that's not a literal %boost to damage, and two of them (Scrappy and Swift Swim) are offensive in nature anyway.

They're all getting just straight up damage boosts. I know a lot of it has to do with the fact that they can't hold an item, but still, it just seems really uncreative, and this was the case with the last batch of megas (Tough Claws/Parental Bond/Aerialate/Pixilate/Huge|Pure Power/Solar Power/Drought/etc.) Of course this doesn't prevent people from using them defensively (ALTARIA IS GOD,) but Gamefreak's intent was obvious.

Yeah which I really hope they get more creative in the future. Yeah sure Mega Slowbro gets Shell Armor...which is kinda "defensive" but its regular form still has the better ability and can hold an item. I hope there are some hidden megas that will be pleasant surprises.

 

[9 Tales of Ninetales]

Forgive me tho, but even if Sharpedo has horrendous defenses, it can still potentially grab a speed boost on one turn, then mega the next right? Sure that might mean keeping protect on the move set, but if it were to get pseudo-STAB BoltBeam + Crunch the coverage wouldn't be that bad to miss. I think.

Also the recent names of some of the moves are making em sound a lot more, epic/powerful I guess. Idk, but the idea of a move being called Cliff's Blade sounds both intimidating and odd to me.

Might be getting too heavy into competitive talk here but I'm taking the bait... (and am planning not to argue back if someone disagrees, lol)
Regular Sharpedo's defenses are 70/40/40. Some Pokemon with better defense include Porygon, Marill, Flaaffy, Gulpin, Spheal, Darumaka, and Castform.
+100 and a significant damage and coverage increases means it'll be good...
But that +100 is gonna be spread to all 5 stats. As in Mega Sharpedo's defenses will probably be as good as Darukaka's instead of worse than it. So while Mega Sharpedo will be a great late game cleaner it'll only work if you've eliminated all the enemy's priority users and put some chip damage on their bulkier mons. Because you seriously can't afford to take hits, you have to be OHKOing everything with that defense spread. So as someone playing against a team with a Sharpedo on it, it becomes an obvious goal to keep a priority user/ bulky mon ready.
In addition to that it doesn't revert to its regular form when it switches out. Meaning you only get to try for a speed boosted sweep one time. I imagine it's mega's natural speed will be above base 100, still it makes it painful to have to be forced out while at + Speed. Which things like Intimidate can make it do as well. So it's not purely priority and "bulk" that ruin its one sweep attempt.

Basically, opting for Mega Sharpedo is opting to play the majority of the battle with 5 (non-mega) Pokemon so that at the end of the battle, IF you eliminated priority, you can attempt to make a sweep one time with a Pokemon that is probably gonna be around equivalent to a lot of other megas in terms of damage anyways.

It's a big improvement on Sharpedo but I struggle to see it being a mega you pick over other megas.

Weirdly it's extreme inability to take hits and one chance to use speed boost kind of make me expect that Aqua Jet might be a move to put on a Mega Sharpedo set...

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

On a similar line to 9 Tales, we should probably acknowledge that Sharpedo shares a typing with the defining win condition of the meta game (is this too competitive?), Mega Gyarados. In game, speed boost probably won't be available, and even when it is, dragon dance is arguably more useful alongside usable bulk. Not saying Gyarados outclasses it, but that OP Crunch and Aqua Jet aren't enough to make me choose it over the other mega. There's little to suggest that it would be available during the story (Gyaradosite, Gardevoirite, and Absolite weren't, and I'm assuming Sharpedo will be the villain's mega), and post game Gyaradosite might as well be available too. Despite my initial excitement, I'm almost ready to call this one a dud.

 

[Silly Dragons]

Might be getting too heavy into competitive talk here but I'm taking the bait... (and am planning not to argue back if someone disagrees, lol)
Regular Sharpedo's defenses are 70/40/40. Some Pokemon with better defense include Porygon, Marill, Flaaffy, Gulpin, Spheal, Darumaka, and Castform.
+100 and a significant damage and coverage increases means it'll be good...
But that +100 is gonna be spread to all 5 stats. As in Mega Sharpedo's defenses will probably be as good as Darukaka's instead of worse than it. So while Mega Sharpedo will be a great late game cleaner it'll only work if you've eliminated all the enemy's priority users and put some chip damage on their bulkier mons. Because you seriously can't afford to take hits, you have to be OHKOing everything with that defense spread. So as someone playing against a team with a Sharpedo on it, it becomes an obvious goal to keep a priority user/ bulky mon ready.
In addition to that it doesn't revert to its regular form when it switches out. Meaning you only get to try for a speed boosted sweep one time. I imagine it's mega's natural speed will be above base 100, still it makes it painful to have to be forced out while at + Speed. Which things like Intimidate can make it do as well. So it's not purely priority and "bulk" that ruin its one sweep attempt.

Basically, opting for Mega Sharpedo is opting to play the majority of the battle with 5 (non-mega) Pokemon so that at the end of the battle, IF you eliminated priority, you can attempt to make a sweep one time with a Pokemon that is probably gonna be around equivalent to a lot of other megas in terms of damage anyways.

It's a big improvement on Sharpedo but I struggle to see it being a mega you pick over other megas.

Weirdly it's extreme inability to take hits and one chance to use speed boost kind of make me expect that Aqua Jet might be a move to put on a Mega Sharpedo set...

I don't think priority will be too much of an issue for Mega-Sharpedo. Sure, Mega-Sharpedo is frail and takes some decent damage from priority, but he resists Ice Shard, Aqua Jet, Sucker Punch, and Bullet Punch, meaning he can probably sponge a single priority hit from most common users and kill the priority user back. Talonflame also isn't too big of a problem, because you've probably picked up a Speed Boost somewhere before mega evolving, and assuming Mega-Sharpedo gets an attack boost equivalent to life orb or stronger you can kill Talonflame first with Aqua Jet.

You do have to watch out for Mach Punch users though. Breloom and Conk can both easily sponge an Aqua Jet and then one shot you with Mach Punch. Mega-Pinsir is also a little bit of a problem, but you can beat him if you're at full health (Quick Attack does ~70-80% and you can usually OHKO back). And Azumarill you can't deal with unless Sharpedo gains access to Thunder Fang in ORAS (in which case you wreck him).

Mega-Sharpedo does look kind of stupid though.

 

[Salemance]

Might be getting too heavy into competitive talk here but I'm taking the bait... (and am planning not to argue back if someone disagrees, lol)
Regular Sharpedo's defenses are 70/40/40. Some Pokemon with better defense include Porygon, Marill, Flaaffy, Gulpin, Spheal, Darumaka, and Castform.
+100 and a significant damage and coverage increases means it'll be good...
But that +100 is gonna be spread to all 5 stats. As in Mega Sharpedo's defenses will probably be as good as Darukaka's instead of worse than it. So while Mega Sharpedo will be a great late game cleaner it'll only work if you've eliminated all the enemy's priority users and put some chip damage on their bulkier mons. Because you seriously can't afford to take hits, you have to be OHKOing everything with that defense spread. So as someone playing against a team with a Sharpedo on it, it becomes an obvious goal to keep a priority user/ bulky mon ready.
In addition to that it doesn't revert to its regular form when it switches out. Meaning you only get to try for a speed boosted sweep one time. I imagine it's mega's natural speed will be above base 100, still it makes it painful to have to be forced out while at + Speed. Which things like Intimidate can make it do as well. So it's not purely priority and "bulk" that ruin its one sweep attempt.

Basically, opting for Mega Sharpedo is opting to play the majority of the battle with 5 (non-mega) Pokemon so that at the end of the battle, IF you eliminated priority, you can attempt to make a sweep one time with a Pokemon that is probably gonna be around equivalent to a lot of other megas in terms of damage anyways.

It's a big improvement on Sharpedo but I struggle to see it being a mega you pick over other megas.

Weirdly it's extreme inability to take hits and one chance to use speed boost kind of make me expect that Aqua Jet might be a move to put on a Mega Sharpedo set...

Its just one of the things I thought of as looking at it (the idea of giving the mega some form of speed seemed helpful at the leas).

I do agree that its just all debate since we have no clue how far his stats will be increased to show if that would be even needed, but its just more getting excited in the moment of it all. Camerupt is the one im more perplexed at, as with a speed stat already as low as 40, I wonder what they would be doing to everything else. While Sharpedo Mega would be like Mega Manectric in my eyes (not exactly stronger than other electric types but a hell of a lot faster) I don't quite know how to think of Mega Camerupt. Its taking the route of the usual slow Ground type, but making it hit harder with excellent dual stabs (and just slap Rock Slide on there and you got great coverage).

The speed drop disappointed me though. I was really hoping to try using him like Mega Ampharos but it looks like it may not be like that at all now.

 

[awiec]

Its just one of the things I thought of as looking at it (the idea of giving the mega some form of speed seemed helpful at the leas).

I do agree that its just all debate since we have no clue how far his stats will be increased to show if that would be even needed, but its just more getting excited in the moment of it all. Camerupt is the one im more perplexed at, as with a speed stat already as low as 40, I wonder what they would be doing to everything else. While Sharpedo Mega would be like Mega Manectric in my eyes (not exactly stronger than other electric types but a hell of a lot faster) I don't quite know how to think of Mega Camerupt. Its taking the route of the usual slow Ground type, but making it hit harder with excellent dual stabs (and just slap Rock Slide on there and you got great coverage).

The speed drop disappointed me though. I was really hoping to try using him like Mega Ampharos but it looks like it may not be like that at all now.

Well they are giving TR users a bone, sheer force earth power and flamethrower is going to be a beast. Depending on how much they boost the attack it could run a nice mixed set with rock slide as you suggested as TR does value hitting hard and "fast" as they are limited to 4-5 turns.

 

[Lady Vader]

I love Mega Camerupt (I've always loved Camerupt and it looks so cool). Sharpedo, eh. Gallade solves my OCD about Mega Gardevoir existing.
More evidence towards perma weather return. As long as it stays in Ubers, I don't care.

 

[Salemance]

Well they are giving TR users a bone, sheer force earth power and flamethrower is going to be a beast. Depending on how much they boost the attack it could run a nice mixed set with rock slide as you suggested as TR does value hitting hard and "fast" as they are limited to 4-5 turns.

Course you could always forgo the Flamethrower for Fire Blast as hell, got maybe 3 turns to abuse it, might as well hit harder than anything else! :D

But yah, Camerupt seems like it be a perfect doubles mega in this context. too bad its not a double game we play (hell, even just slot protect on that fourth slot since it really only needs three attacks for neutral coverage).

 

[Kurona]

... am I the only one who thinks Mega Sharpedo would be a decent fast wallbreaker instead of a booster?

 

[Karxrida]

I don't think priority will be too much of an issue for Mega-Sharpedo. Sure, Mega-Sharpedo is frail and takes some decent damage from priority, but he resists Ice Shard, Aqua Jet, Sucker Punch, and Bullet Punch, meaning he can probably sponge a single priority hit from most common users and kill the priority user back. Talonflame also isn't too big of a problem, because you've probably picked up a Speed Boost somewhere before mega evolving, and assuming Mega-Sharpedo gets an attack boost equivalent to life orb or stronger you can kill Talonflame first with Aqua Jet.

You do have to watch out for Mach Punch users though. Breloom and Conk can both easily sponge an Aqua Jet and then one shot you with Mach Punch. Mega-Pinsir is also a little bit of a problem, but you can beat him if you're at full health (Quick Attack does ~70-80% and you can usually OHKO back). And Azumarill you can't deal with unless Sharpedo gains access to Thunder Fang in ORAS (in which case you wreck him).

Mega-Sharpedo does look kind of stupid though.

The only notable Aqua Jet user is Azumarill, who's a hard counter if Sharpedo doesn't get Thunder Fang.
Bisharp's Sucker Punch does 50% minimum to normal Sharpedo without any boosts or a boosting item, and will always OHKO it at +2. Even if it got a boost of 20 to Defense, a +2 Dread Plate Sucker Punch will always OHKO after Stealth Rock.
Bullet Punch is pretty much just Scizor, who's bulky enough to take a neutral hit (a Strong Jaw boosted Crunch barely does more than 50% max to Mega Bulky Swords Dance off of a hypothetical 150 Base Attack, while Banded Scizor takes 75% max) and OHKO back.

 

[Wishy]

EDIT: Please stop theorymon and competitive discussion. Last time this thread got closed because of people doing [theoretical] damage calculations.

Mega Gallade looks really awesome. I don't see where people are getting Fairy/Fighting from? Like... Why would that even happen? Wouldn't it had made more sense to just re-type Gallade earlier to Fighting/ when they gave the rest of his line Fairy, to correspond with Gardevoir's Psychic/Fairy? It just seems a bit bizarre to be gaining and losing the same type as it evolves. I think Mega Gallade will be the same type. Hopefully with some boosts to his bulk and speed and a good ability. Anyway... Ya Wally! His updated design is nice, nothing too flashy like some others.

Mega Sharpedo and Camerupt were predictable, but cool nonetheless. They basically gave Sharpedo a bunch more scars and a bigger snout, and some retractable teeth?? Camerupt's single giant active volcano is pretty sweet.

 

[Kurona]

See I don't get the whole "well Gallade would have been fairy earlier" argument. Wouldn't that same argument apply to Altaria...?

 

[Magcargo]

Can't wait for Primal Kyogre. Judging by the flavor text of its ability (This ability will create strong rain) it can be assumed that "Strong Rain" is either permanent Rain or Rain with a greater amount of turns in which its active. This will be pretty interesting for the Ubers metagame since strong Rain will make swift swimmers like Kabutops and Omastar viable again.

 

[Wishy]

See I don't get the whole "well Gallade would have been fairy earlier" argument. Wouldn't that same argument apply to Altaria...?

Um no. I'm just saying it seems odd and silly to retcon Fairy on everybody else in his family except him (unless in Mega form). Psychic/Fairy to Psychic/Fighting to Fairy/Fighting. It's not very intuitive to me.

 

[Phione]

The question is - which is better in game, Psychic/Fighting or Fairy/Fighting?

I personally think Mega Gallade's design says Fairy due to the cape(s), which makes it look almost angelic. Then again, Mega Absol looks spectacular and like a fallen angel, and even gets Play Rough, and yet does it get Dark/Fairy? No.

 

[Machi]

This and the last thread have proven that relying entirely on precedent leads to being incorrect. Plus... I don't think we ever had a Mega whose typing is entirely different from the base stage's first form, hm? //Altaria
Not having fairy moves is no problem. Heracross got Pin Missile, Rock Blast etc., Blastoise got Aura Sphere and the Pulse Moves, Ampharos got Dragon Pulse...

Yes but this is Gallade :O GF hates Gallade and they have to troll after all so what better victim :D