Almost Any Ability ORAS

[Grim]

Try a Protean abuser with a strong Electric type move like Victini or maybe Arcanine. Dragonite also 2HKO's with protean Thunderpunch; that's what Lance uses, and it works well. Unaware Celebi is also an exceptional way to deal with it; I use it myself. There's probably more.

A strong Protean abuser doesn't really fit in a stall team. :I

4 SpA Suicune Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 220+ SpD Celebi: 90-106 (22.2 - 26.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

I suppose Celebi does wall it, but it can't really do much back (leech seed?), so it turns into PP stall anyway lmao.

 

[Pikachuun]

A strong Protean abuser doesn't really fit in a stall team. :I

4 SpA Suicune Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 220+ SpD Celebi: 90-106 (22.2 - 26.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

I suppose Celebi does wall it, but it can't really do much back (leech seed?), so it turns into PP stall anyway lmao.

Missed stall there, but Celebi does a sizable amount with Giga Drain, assuming it's Physically Defensive like most are.
0 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 144-170 (35.6 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO [Not counting PH]
Leech seed is just a bonus you can apply.

 

[Grim]

Missed stall there, but Celebi does a sizable amount with Giga Drain, assuming it's Physically Defensive like most are.
0 SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 144-170 (35.6 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO [Not counting PH]
Leech seed is just a bonus you can apply.

Oh yeah, forgot that it ignores the Calm Mind boosts.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

So is there any way for stall to deal with Poison Heal Suicune without PP stalling? xD

Only thing I can think of is Unaware Suicune setting up on the opponent's Suicune.

Burn it with fire, if you could Wow before toxic orb activates, that would screw PH abusers. Most Suicunes lack coverage so it shouldn't be very difficult to deal with. Just put water absorb/dry skin/storm drain on something unlikely and surprise value alone could throw the opponent off enough to gain a slight upper hand.

 

[Grim]

Burn it with fire, if you could Wow before toxic orb activates, that would screw PH abusers. Most Suicunes lack coverage so it shouldn't be very difficult to deal with. Just put water absorb/dry skin/storm drain on something unlikely and surprise value alone could throw the opponent off enough to gain a slight upper hand.

Yeah, I have two(!) Dry Skin pokemon, but Poison Heal Suicune often uses Ice Beam, making these counters set up fodder.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

Well two pokemon come to mind that have a 4x ice resist. Empoleon and Heatran.... If all your team has to worry about is PH Suicune then it would be worth it to run one of these defensively.

 

[Grim]

Well two pokemon come to mind that have a 4x ice resist. Empoleon and Heatran.... If all your team has to worry about is PH Suicune then it would be worth it to run one of these defensively.

I replaced my Slyveon with Heatran, but then I realized that Heatran can't actually touch Suicune, making it just another PP war lol. I guess I'll just have to accept that Suicune is a bitch to stall.

 

[EV]

I replaced my Slyveon with Heatran, but then I realized that Heatran can't actually touch Suicune, making it just another PP war lol. I guess I'll just have to accept that Suicune is a bitch to stall.

If you have room for it, Gastro Acid or Worry Seed can screw it over. As a bonus, the move has other applications for stall, since it removes things like Adaptability and Protean, two abilities that would give some stall teams trouble.

 

[w0rd]

When I ran stall, PH Suicune was never really a problem. The 3 counters I had for it were:

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Def / 172 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock /Giga Drain
- Skill Swap
- Recover
- Perish Song

Tanks literally any hit and recovers off the damage. Can Perish Song to force it out or can Skill Swap away its Poison Heal rendering it useless.

Suicune @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Roar
- Calm Mind
- Protect

Calm minds alongside it, then Roars it out leaving you with a boosted Suicune. Works well with Spikes up.

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Def / 168 SpD / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Skill Swap

Spam Seismic Toss for awhile to so they think that you're just set up fodder (to build up the Toxic damage) and then reveal the Skill Swap.

Obviously you don't have to run these exact sets but hopefully they can give you some ideas for handling it.

 

[Grim]

Thank you for the suggestions. :)

I replaced Ice Beam for Roar on my own Suicune. Hopefully this will help me against that annoying cat/dog monster.

 

[Parzival]

So... Aerilate is banned, but Pixilate and Refrigerate aren't?

 

[Pikachuun]

So... Aerilate is banned, but Pixilate and Refrigerate aren't?

Name a good abuser for Pixilate or Refrigerate that gets STAB on the boosted attacks.

 

[Uselesscrab]

Name a good abuser for Pixilate or Refrigerate that gets STAB on the boosted attacks.

I mean, Togekiss and Mamoswine are "good abusers." They're just not nearly as dominant as Aerilate Dragonite, particularly because Dragonite gets Extreme Speed.

 

[Pagoose]

Anyone know some good Competitive or Defiant pokemon? I'm thinking something that is either fast or has strong priority. Some ideas are:
-Greninja - Faster than the whole metagame, but not as strong without protean
-Tornadus-T - Same as Greninja
-Mega Alakazam - come in, get a competitive boost, mega and kill everything off a +2 175 base Special Attack. Also fast enough to run modest.
-Mega Aerodactyl - Physical Version of Alakazam, basically.
-Mega Mawile - I think you get it
-Genesect - Powerful priority in Espeed, resists most priority, can click explosion to kill something.
-Dragonite - Even more powerful priority (+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 321-378 (99.3 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO... DAMN)(+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Outrage vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 549-646 (103.7 - 122.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO... DAMN!)
-Bisharp - Bisharp is still a good user of defiant because of sucker punch. Kinda funny actually.

 

[Pikachuun]

I mean, Togekiss and Mamoswine are "good abusers." They're just not nearly as dominant as Aerilate Dragonite, particularly because Dragonite gets Extreme Speed.

Good point.

To address the original question, there were a few Flying types in OU that were also held back by lack of STAB as well (Thundy, Lando) which also got pushed up quite a bit because of it. That's probably why Aerilate was banned, and not just Dnite/Noivern.

 

[Uselesscrab]

Anyone know some good Competitive or Defiant pokemon? I'm thinking something that is either fast or has strong priority. Some ideas are:
-Greninja - Faster than the whole metagame, but not as strong without protean
-Tornadus-T - Same as Greninja
-Mega Alakazam - come in, get a competitive boost, mega and kill everything off a +2 175 base Special Attack. Also fast enough to run modest.
-Mega Aerodactyl - Physical Version of Alakazam, basically.
-Mega Mawile - I think you get it
-Genesect - Powerful priority in Espeed, resists most priority, can click explosion to kill something.
-Dragonite - Even more powerful priority (+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 321-378 (99.3 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO... DAMN)(+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Outrage vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 549-646 (103.7 - 122.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO... DAMN!)
-Bisharp - Bisharp is still a good user of defiant because of sucker punch. Kinda funny actually.

I think Electric-types are a good choice for this role as well because of how many Defoggers are Flying-type.

 

[xJownage]

I think Electric-types are a good choice for this role as well because of how many Defoggers are Flying-type.

Say hi to competitive mega manetric. That thing is actually an absolute BEAST.

 

[Darkglade]

I think Electric-types are a good choice for this role as well because of how many Defoggers are Flying-type.

Competitive Mega Ampharos has lots of potential too. With an Agility set, it can set up and sweep most offensive teams after getting the Competitive boost and Mega evolving. With its massive Special Attack, it can also wall-break pretty well. Its Mold Breaker ability is also really handy in a metagame where anything can randomly have Volt Absorb or Unaware.

 

[aesf]

I've noticed how Deoxys-S is nearly impossible to switch in to. It pretty much kills every pokemon without priority and revenge kills at will. It murders almost every wall with a simple set of Knock Off/Superpower/Psycho Boost/Thunderbolt or Ice beam. And unlike Keldeo, you can't handle it by simply slapping water absorb on a ghost type or a fairy type. That being said, I feel like the following set is worthy of mention simply for its ability of being able to "counter" Deoxys-S.

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Flash Fire/Sand Stream/Drizzle/whatever
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Atk / 4 Def / 208 SpD
Impish Nature
- Roost
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Bullet Punch

252/4+/252 SpD is actually more efficient than giving a 252/124/132+ spread. Anyways, the EVs let Mega Scizor avoid the 2HKO after rocks from superpower (factoring drops) and Thunderbolt (25% chance but owell). Roost is extremely important due to the fact that Scizor will probably need to switch in several times, and you won't get worn down. U-turn gives you initiative, Knock off is knock off, and bullet punch is for priority.

Calcs (i know deoxys-s can't run Naughty and Rash at the same time, but this is for the worst case scenario)

252+ Atk Life Orb Protean Deoxys-S Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 4+ Def Mega Scizor: 83-99 (24.1 - 28.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Life Orb Protean Deoxys-S Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mega Scizor: 134-160 (38.9 - 46.5%) -- 25.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Tbolt isn't too common anyways, though it should be)

252+ SpA Life Orb Deoxys-S Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mega Scizor: 104-122 (30.2 - 35.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Deoxys-S Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mega Scizor: 61-73 (17.7 - 21.2%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Stealth Rock

And finally:
252+ Atk Life Orb Protean Deoxys-S Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4+ Def Mega Scizor: 153-181 (44.4 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

The second hit will do 2/3s of what the first hit will do, so when you do the math, you need to take 3/5 (first hit)*88(health after rocks) or less from Superpower in order to live after the drops.

 

[MAMP]

I've noticed how Deoxys-S is nearly impossible to switch in to. It pretty much kills every pokemon without priority and revenge kills at will. It murders almost every wall with a simple set of Knock Off/Superpower/Psycho Boost/Thunderbolt or Ice beam. And unlike Keldeo, you can't handle it by simply slapping water absorb on a ghost type or a fairy type. That being said, I feel like the following set is worthy of mention simply for its ability of being able to "counter" Deoxys-S.

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Flash Fire/Sand Stream/Drizzle/whatever
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Atk / 4 Def / 208 SpD
Impish Nature
- Roost
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Bullet Punch

252/4+/252 SpD is actually more efficient than giving a 252/124/132+ spread. Anyways, the EVs let Mega Scizor avoid the 2HKO after rocks from superpower (factoring drops) and Thunderbolt (25% chance but owell). Roost is extremely important due to the fact that Scizor will probably need to switch in several times, and you won't get worn down. U-turn gives you initiative, Knock off is knock off, and bullet punch is for priority.

Calcs (i know deoxys-s can't run Naughty and Rash at the same time, but this is for the worst case scenario)

252+ Atk Life Orb Protean Deoxys-S Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 4+ Def Mega Scizor: 83-99 (24.1 - 28.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Life Orb Protean Deoxys-S Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mega Scizor: 134-160 (38.9 - 46.5%) -- 25.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Tbolt isn't too common anyways, though it should be)

252+ SpA Life Orb Deoxys-S Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mega Scizor: 104-122 (30.2 - 35.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Deoxys-S Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Mega Scizor: 61-73 (17.7 - 21.2%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Stealth Rock

And finally:
252+ Atk Life Orb Protean Deoxys-S Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4+ Def Mega Scizor: 153-181 (44.4 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

The second hit will do 2/3s of what the first hit will do, so when you do the math, you need to take 3/5 (first hit)*88(health after rocks) or less from Superpower in order to live after the drops.

Scizor gets donked by Fire Punch.

 

[CyclicCompound]

Scizor gets donked by Fire Punch.

That's why one of the slashed abilities is Flash Fire, isn't it?

 

[MAMP]

That's why one of the slashed abilities is Flash Fire, isn't it?

Oops, didn't notice that lol

 

[Clone]

So I have a few questions about this meta that I'd like to know before I delve into it.

1) what abilities make Keldeo and. Bisharp so good? More curious about Bisharp tbh.

2) this is mostly personal interest because Blaziken is my favorite Pokémon, but how is he mid a in the viability rankings without speed boost? What let's him be better than Infernape with only a base 80 speed?

3) I'm probably overlooking something, but are banned abilities available on mons that originally get them such as Aerialate Pinsir or speed boost Yanmega?

 

[w0rd]

1) what abilities make Keldeo and. Bisharp so good? More curious about Bisharp tbh.

Keldeo: Adaptability, Tinted Lens, Poison Heal, Magnet Pull, Drizzle, etc
Bisharp: Adaptability, Tough Claws

Both hit extremely hard and are difficult to switch into.

2) this is mostly personal interest because Blaziken is my favorite Pokémon, but how is he mid a in the viability rankings without speed boost? What let's him be better than Infernape with only a base 80 speed?

Pokemon that naturally learn banned abilities are still allowed to use them. The Speed Boost set is the main reason it is ranked so highly.

3) I'm probably overlooking something, but are banned abilities available on mons that originally get them such as Aerialate Pinsir or speed boost Yanmega?

See above

 

[Pagoose]

So I have a few questions about this meta that I'd like to know before I delve into it.

1) what abilities make Keldeo and. Bisharp so good? More curious about Bisharp tbh.

2) this is mostly personal interest because Blaziken is my favorite Pokémon, but how is he mid a in the viability rankings without speed boost? What let's him be better than Infernape with only a base 80 speed?

3) I'm probably overlooking something, but are banned abilities available on mons that originally get them such as Aerialate Pinsir or speed boost Yanmega?

To add to what word said, Keldeo in particular (And Bisharp too) are extremely powerful with Adaptability, to the point where people run water absorb fighting resists. Adaptability Keldeo can 2HKO Mega Venusaur, and if you run tinted lens, you can even 2HKO SpDef Celebi:
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 232 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 153-180 (42.6 - 50.1%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 206-244 (50.9 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Bisharp is similar, as with adapatability it does stuff like OHKO Skarmory at +2, and dealing 90% minimum to Hippo and Alo fish thing:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 335-395 (100.2 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 377-445 (89.7 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

It can also tear through offense if you dont keep your bisharp check healthy, as it does stuff like 82-96% to keldeo and 1-shotting Blaziken with sucker punch, 2 decently bulky dark resists:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 265-312 (82 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Blaziken: 291-343 (96.3 - 113.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

Basically, they're kinda broken.