ORAS General Discussion - Mark 2 - Spoilers Inside

[gabriel]

at least that's my "wild" speculation. Neither one strictly beats the other, it depends on switching. And for that reason I don't really know that either one is claiming a throne. Maybe they've just become the two mad kings? Or maybe Xerneas is just kind of laughing from his throne while his possible greatest enemies neutralize each other.

On second thought, Primal Groudon can take on Xerneas pretty well, at least on paper. It resists Moonblast, is immune to Thunder, takes pitful damage from Psychock, so it looks like Xerneas' best shots are the unreliable Focus Blast and Grass Knot.

And let's not forget Primal Kyogre can't switch into Primal Groudon unless it's sure a fire-type move is coming. Groudon can even misspredict and tank an ice beam on the switch. Freeze hax isn't even an option because of the sunlight.

Primal Groundon for king.

 

[Cresselia~~]

Kyogre weather blocks fire moves...
makes me really want to pop Jynx/ Toxicroak into Kyogre's team.

Toxicroak even has Earthquake for Prim-Groudon.

 

[Cainchin]

On second thought, Primal Groudon can take on Xerneas pretty well, at least on paper. It resists Moonblast, is immune to Thunder, takes pitful damage from Psychock, so it looks like Xerneas' best shots are the unreliable Focus Blast and Grass Knot.

And let's not forget Primal Kyogre can't switch into Primal Groudon unless it's sure a fire-type move is coming. Groudon can even misspredict and tank an ice beam on the switch. Freeze hax isn't even an option because of the sunlight.

Primal Groundon for king.

The King, Kyogre and Ubers doesn't want, but the one it deserves.

 

[Max Carvalho]

Btw, how do you guys know weather stays as long as Kyogre/Groudoun is at the field?

 

[stage7_4]

Nope. Mold Breaker just bypasses the enemy's ability when performing a move. It won't cancel out a field ability like Drought or Drizzle.

That's not what I said.

 

[9 Tales of Ninetales]

Before we hand over the crown there's one other Dark Horse who hasn't made his show yet.
A Pokemon that is both Water and Fire resist as well as Ground immune. What will his new powers be and how will it affect these new developments? To start the official website says nothing about Primordial Sea or Desolate Land blocking the affects of Air Lock.

I also noticed they showed him using 3 Dragon attacks and Hyper Beam.... maybe that Hyper beam will be getting some-ate thrown on the end? Extreme Speed Areilate anyone?

 

[QueenOfHax]

Before we hand over the crown there's one other Dark Horse who hasn't made his show yet.
A Pokemon that is both Water and Fire resist as well as Ground immune. What will his new powers be and how will it affect these new developments? To start the official website says nothing about Primordial Sea or Desolate Land blocking the affects of Air Lock.

I also noticed they showed him using 3 Dragon attacks and Hyper Beam.... maybe that Hyper beam will be getting some-ate thrown on the end? Extreme Speed Areilate anyone?

Said pokemon is 2x rock weak and 4x ice weak so Groudon and Kyogre will keep laughing at its face unless it gets a complete overhaul like Primal Groudon.

 

[Jibaku]

Btw, how do you guys know weather stays as long as Kyogre/Groudoun is at the field?

From the official site:
" Desolate Land’s weather effects, however, will last as long as Primal Groudon remains in battle. As soon as it is swapped out for another Pokémon, the weather immediately returns to normal. "

 

[gabriel]

From the official site:
" Desolate Land’s weather effects, however, will last as long as Primal Groudon remains in battle. As soon as it is swapped out for another Pokémon, the weather immediately returns to normal. "

Now, does normal mean "normal sunlight" or normal "no weather"? I'd say the latter is more likely, but you never know.

 

[Noel Lopunny]

I can see anything with Levitate being a good partner with Kyogre. There is going to be a whole lot of switching going on. It might be like the weather wars of the past but instead of keeping the weather up for your team, people will want the weather up for their primal.

Also, keep in mind, None of Groudon's STABs are SE against Kyogre. While immunity to water is important, if P-Groudon so much as gets cornered by P-Kyogre, it's not tanking Kyogre's STAB.

 

[gabriel]

Said pokemon is 2x rock weak and 4x ice weak so Groudon and Kyogre will keep laughing at its face unless it gets a complete overhaul like Primal Groudon.

And such overhaul would have to be insane like "Primal Rayquaza removes all sorts of weather and becomes immune to the types of said weather (fire, water, rock and ice)". While I can see its ability completely removing any kind of weather for good (not just as long as it's on the field), immunities would be just too much.

Aerilate Rayquaza sounds awesome (would still have to be careful when switching into primal Groudon/Kyogre though), but I think it has to get a weather-related ability, doesn't it? A buffed version of Air Lock just like Groudon/Kyogre got improved versions of their own abilities.

 

[Inspirited]

I would like to know if Desolate Land and Primordial Sea are able to override each other if one is active and the other primal forme switches in. If it doesn't, then primal Don will still have a lot of issues switching into Primal ogre.

 

[Kurona]

The MegaGengar voting has come to a close and, while we still have no idea of the result, I wouldn't personally count on Gengar for anything anymore.

And then the meta changes in two months to the point Mega Gengar is retested.
Isn't competitive fun


Also how did I not see Origin Pulse was a water-type super Dazzling Gleam before

 

[CTNC]

Also how did I not see Origin Pulse was a water-type super Dazzling Gleam before

Because it looks like a Water Type Psystrike. I wouldn't have guessed hitting multiple opponents ether.

 

[Jibaku]

I would like to know if Desolate Land and Primordial Sea are able to override each other if one is active and the other primal forme switches in. If it doesn't, then primal Don will still have a lot of issues switching into Primal ogre.

The official site says that only weather moves and Drizzle/Drought/Sandstream/Hail will fail, and that the super weather can be changed by a small number of Pokemon. It's safe to assume that Desolate Land will override Primordial Sea and vice versa.

I do wonder if Air Lock will also nullify these super weathers as it is not listed as an ability that will fail to affect it.

 

[Mario With Lasers]

I wonder what they meant with "selectively few" pokémon. I was only expecting Primal K/G and Rayquaza to override it, but it's like there's more to it. Maybe Cloud Nine? Random pokémon? Ditto???

 

[Sweetstack]

I wonder what can check Primal Groudon outside of a Primal Kyogre predicting a Fire move. Virtually nothing resists Ground/Sun-boosted Fire

The Latis? Although, we can't really know for sure since we don't know where the BP stat boosts will go to.

 

[9 Tales of Ninetales]

inb4 we find out that Origin Pulse's effect is that it can still work in Extremely Harsh Sunlight

 

[Karxrida]

I wonder what they meant with "selectively few" pokémon. I was only expecting Primal K/G and Rayquaza to override it, but it's like there's more to it. Maybe Cloud Nine? Random pokémon? Ditto???

Mega Castform confirmed.

 

[viperGTS]

I really don't see how Primal Groudon > Primal Kyogre. It's all dependent on who switches in after the other, and because they both will likely carry the same speed stat, I can see these weather wars coming down to 50/50s.

 

[Kurona]

Because it looks like a Water Type Psystrike. I wouldn't have guessed hitting multiple opponents ether.

True, but looking at it again it does resemble dazzling gleam quite a bit.

 

[Karxrida]

I really don't see how Primal Groudon > Primal Kyogre. It's all dependent on who switches in after the other, and because they both will likely carry the same speed stat, I can see these weather wars coming down to 50/50s.

Primal Groudon resists or is immune to Primal Kyogre's strongest attacks, while the same can't be said for the opposite situation. Kyogre will have to switch into Pointy-Rock Attack and take damage while Groudon just lols at Water Spout.

 

[9 Tales of Ninetales]

Kyogre learns EQ.... maybe it will start running it sometimes? lol

 

[viperGTS]

Primal Groudon resists or is immune to Primal Kyogre's strongest attacks, while the same can't be said for the opposite situation.

Like I implied, it's only immune if it switches in later. I realize that Groudon has Ground STAB but that's really it's only advantage. They're still basically on par with each other.

Kyogre learns EQ.... maybe it will start running it sometimes? lol

Could be a possibility, especially if Primal Kyogre gets an increased Attack stat and runs a -Speed nature :p

 

[9 Tales of Ninetales]

Like I implied, it's only immune if it switches in later. I realize that Groudon has Ground STAB but that's really it's only advantage. They're still basically on par with each other.

Well the idea is that "which one wins" is based on which one switched into the other. However Groudon has a WAY easier time switching into a (now neutral) Ice Beam than Kyogre will likely have switching into Groudon's new signature move. So in a battle where they have to keep switching into each other to beat each other Kyogre loses.