Gothita [QC: 0/3]

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Thanks to Naykart/The Master of LC for early editing help, and the sub+CM set.

Overview
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+One of two Pokemon in Little Cup with access to the ability Shadow Tag
+One of five Pokemon in Little Cup with access to trapping abilities
+Access to great coverage in the movepool, although does not get Dazzling Gleam, and thus is weak to Scraggy, a common threat.
+ Decent bulk
-Although it has good coverage, it has low Special Attack
-Average maximum speed
-Weak to Dark, thus Knock off, the most common move in the tier.

Defensive Gothita
==========
name: Defensive Gothita
move 1: Psychic
move 2: Energy Ball
move 3: Hidden Power Fighting/Thunderbolt
move 4: Taunt/Thunder Wave
ability: Shadow Tag
item: Eviolite
evs: 200 Def / 240 SpD
nature: Modest

Moves
========

In the first moveslot, you should use psychic as a good stab move. Another tough choice is choosing between Hidden Power Fighting and Thunderbolt. Hidden Power Fighting allows you to OHKO Pawniard and Ferroseed hard. Thunderbolt allows you to hit important birds for significant damage, but Energy Ball allows you to do more significant damage to a larger number of important threats, specifically Tirtouga, Chinchou, and Omanyte. Taunt is there to prevent sweepers from setting up on you, and to prevent entry hazards from getting laid (cockblock imo). Thunder Wave cripples fast pokemon that you would otherwise not be able to beat.

Set Details
========

The maxed out Defense and Special Defense allows for a few important things. First, with 200 Def, you only have a 6.3% to be OHKO’d by a Jolly Pawniard’s Knock Off, and a 75% chance to be OHKO’d by an Adamant Pawniard’s Knock Off. This is significant because very few people run Adamant Pawniard, and Pawniard would be considered a check to Gothita, but the full defense allows you to OHKO right back with HP Fighting.

Usage Tips
========
Defensive Gothita is a decently bulky pokemon, but the goal of Gothita is to trap and eliminate at least one major threat on the enemy team. Only switch in Gothita when you know you can do some serious damage. Try not to take a knock-off, because bar a knock off, you can take almost any other non-boosted attack in the tier.

Team Options
========

-This set is designed to take out Pokemon like Croagunk, which allows Pokemon like Scraggy or Riolu to set up and sweep better.


Choice Scarf
=======
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Psychic
move 2: Energy Ball
move 3: Hidden Power Fighting
move 4:Thunderbolt/Dazzling Gleam
ability: Shadow Tag
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 240 SpA / 240 Spd
nature: Timid

Moves
========

Psychic is for strong STAB. Shadow Ball is a fantastic coverage move, despite Ghost type Pokemon being able to switch out of Shadow Tag. Hidden Power Fighting is a good option for the reasons listed in the previous move set. Energy Ball and Thunderbolt argument is in the previous move set.

Set Details
========

Max Special Attack and Speed allows Gothita to hit the hardest and fastest it can. It hits 22 Speed with a Choice Scarf, max Speed EVs and a neutral nature, which is just enough to out speed every unboosted pokemon in the metagame and the common 14 speed choice scarf users.

Usage Tips
========
Choice Scarf Gothita is best used as a revenge killer. Be careful, this set doesn't check Pawniard at all. However, it does a good job of checking both bulky and offensive Mienfoo.

Team Options
========

-Entry hazards weaken enemy pokemon, allowing Gothita to obtain KOs that would normally be out of reach.
-Knock off users such as Pawniard or Mienfoo remove Eviolite and Berry Juice making enemy Pokemon weaker and thus easier to KO.
-This set is more of a revenge killer or cleaner in comparison to the defensive set, so keep that in mind. It can't take a Knock off, so have a Pokemon that can eat Knock Offs

Sub + Calm Mind
========
name: Sub + Calm Mind
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Calm Mind
move 3: Psychic
move 4: Hidden Power Fighting
ability: Shadow Tag
item: Eviolite / Berry Juice
evs: 36 Def / 156 SpA / 76 SpD / 236 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

Substitute and Calm Mind are used to set up on weak pokemon like Foongus and evade Sucker Punches from things like Croagunk. Psychic as a strong stab move doing great damage after a Calm Mind or two, and Hidden Power Fighting for coverage on mons such as Scraggy Houndour and Pawniard.

Set Details
========

Max Speed and a Timid nature ensures you outspeed many threats such as Croagunk and all 14 Speed pokemon. 156 Special Attack is better than max Special Attack in this situation because it allows us to get more bulk, as well as the fact that after a calm mind you would only have 1 more special attack point because it rounds down. Eviolite vs Berry Juice is a tough decision. Eviolite makes it easy for your subs to survive things like weak Scalds/Giga Drains after a Calm Mind, but Berry Juice allows you to make more Substitutes. The decision is a personal choice.

Usage Tips
========

Gothita is not a particularly bulky pokemon, but the goal of Gothita is to trap and eliminate at least one major threat on the enemy team. Only switch in Gothita when you know you can do some serious damage.

Team Options
========

-Entry hazards weaken enemy pokemon, allowing Gothita to obtain KOs that would normally be out of reach.
-Knock off users such as Pawniard or Mienfoo remove Eviolite and Berry Juice making enemy Pokemon weaker and thus easier to KO.
-Pokemon you can switch into that can take a Knock Off well are extremely valuable to have on your team

Other Options
########
-Sub Life Orb can deal some good damage while giving you an extra coverage move.

Checks and Counters
########

-Stunky Walls and traps Gothita hard.
-Houndour with good Special Defense investment does the same.
-Scarf Pawniard kills all Gothita sets except for defensive. It lives Knock Off from a Jolly Pawniard with maximum Attack investment 93% of the time with full Defense no HP. However some Eviolite Pawniards fail to be ohko’d by Hidden Power Fighting from the bulky set.
 
Last edited:

aVocado

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please fix the spacings in your analysis, there shouldn't be any lines between two bulletpoints, and the sets should look like this:

Sub + Calm Mind
========
name: Sub + Calm Mind
Move 1: Substitute
Move 2: Calm Mind
Move 3: Psychic
Move 4: Hidden Power Fighting
Item: Eviolite / Berry Juice
EVs: 36 Def / 156 SpA / 76 SpD / 236 Spe
Nature: Timid

without any unneeded spaces/lines.
 

antemortem

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Berry Juice should be the primary item on the Sub set given that Gothita is taking time and HP to use Sub and boost. Eviolite's still a fair option but Berry Juice is the more prevalent failsafe in that situation. You also fail to mention that HP Fighting attempts to clean up Scraggy in the first two sets (but you did mention it in the third) despite describing Scraggy as one of its primary counters given that it lacks Dazzling Gleam.
 

Rowan

The professor?
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okay i'll have a go at this


does SubCM even work? like seriously, can it actually work?

SET 1
don't think shadow ball deserves its own slash. imo it should be:
Psychic
Energy Ball
Hidden Power Fighting / Thunderbolt
Taunt / Thunder Wave

Energy Ball is very important for me, as Gothita's main role should be trapping walls - taking out tirtouga and chinchou is much more important. HP Fighting is okay since you can trap Pawniard but only at full health - with hazards its a bit useless though. Tbolt is mainly useful for vullaby and a couple of other random things. Shadow Ball is pretty much useless as Ghosts can't even be trapped, and other psychic types are rare - Slowpoke gets hit by EBall, and abra gets hit hard by anything.

Anyway you need to sort out your formatting - usage tips&team options for every set. Can't QC this until you complete it
 
Thanks everyone. I added everything yall asked. Rowan, Sub Calmmind was the classic set last gen. Its highly inferior to the best set, which is defensive gothita, but it works just as well as scarf Gothita.
 
Rowan, Implemented your changes. Sub+CM isn't very good, but its a viable set for Gothita. Honestly, the defensive set is the only one worth running in the current meta, but the other sets are "viable." Especially when you switch in on something that can't do anything to Gothita.
 

Aerow

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240+ SpA Gothita Thunderbolt vs. 156 HP / 52 SpD Fletchling: 20-24 (86.9 - 104.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
196+ Atk Fletchling Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Gothita: 12-15 (57.1 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You should give Gothita 236 Speed EVs so it hits 14, and therefore outspeeds Fletchling using U-turn. Fletchling therefore can't switch out thanks to Shadow Tag. Probably one of Gothita's biggest niches, and deserves its own set.
 
Last edited:

macle

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I think adding a option for 14 speed is a decent idea. I'm not sold on sub+cm. What does it set up on, what does it beat that defensive doesn't?
 
236 Atk Pawniard Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Gothita: 18-24 (85.7 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Damage with SR will OHKO Goth almost all of the time before you can even try hitting Pawn. HP Fighting without any investment fails to even OHKO Evio Pawniard:

0+ SpA Gothita Hidden Power Fighting vs. 0 HP / 36 SpD Eviolite Pawniard: 16-20 (76.1 - 95.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Basically, that first set is incredibly ineffective. Even if it wasn't, it wouldn't make sense to sacrifice a trapper for one Pokemon when you can kill multiple Pokemon with a revenge killing set. I suggest you fix the EVs, move scarf Goth up to standard slot (it's infinitely better and much more common), and remove those mentions of Pawniard.
 

Rowan

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Evio is much better than scarf, boo since most things it wants to take out are slow walls. Scarf is mainly just good for fast mienfoo

Also hp fire deserves mention for ferro
 
Evio is good for wallbreaking, sure, but if you want to go that way then you'd run Restalk CM and not pretend that Goth should be in on Pawniard.
 

doomsday doink

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Evio is good for wallbreaking, sure, but if you want to go that way then you'd run Restalk CM and not pretend that Goth should be in on Pawniard.
Of course you arent going to leave a weakened Gothita in on Pawniard's Knock Off, that's like leaving Croagunk in on Drilbur's Earthquake. Imo, the Eviolite set is the better one because it can successfully run Taunt to shut down the slow bulky walls the set aims to KO, such as Foongus. Regardless, you can't make your entire argument around staying in on a Pokemon you shouldn't stay in on. Also, Resttalk CM Gothita is garbage because you'll still KO the, let's say, Foongus but then get RKed by a Dark-type Pokemon, unless of course you think the attacking move should be a non-Psychic move. It's really just a way to delay the inevitable KO on Foongus and waste 3 moveslots.
 
Scarf set should 100% be first slot. The extra speed allows gothita to revenge kill a good amount of the offensive metagame which is amazing. It can also reasonably expect to get more than a single kill a game.

Eviolite set:
evs: 200 Def / 240 SpD - No HP?
Hidden Power Fighting? Goth isn't a good way to beat Pawniard. You won't get a chance to use this much. HP fire lets you beat Ferroseed better while still hitting Magnemite

Team Options
========

-This set is designed to take out Pokemon like Croagunk and Pawniard, which allows Pokemon like Scraggy or Riolu to set up and sweep better.
Remove Pawniard here. If all it takes is one hazard or a roll then Gothita is weak to Pawniard and not a way to take it out.

Scarf set:

HP fire > Fight for reasons above
Dazzling Gleam remove it as it doesn't learn this
Modest is a decent option as it is already fast
Shadow ball to beat psychic pokes as a slash somewhere

Sub CM:

I'd rather this be removed honestly as it seems mighty bad if the opponent don't have something that you can't come out of with a sub intact reliably. Also this thing isn't great against Foongus as you have to predict with Sub/CM vs Attack/Spore/Stun Spore.
Again no HP EV's?

Finally you need to express how Gothita is a great with strong setup sweepers to remove specific counters to them.

Also 6 pokemon in LC have trapping abilities (Diglett,Gothita,Wynaut,Magnemite,Trapinch,Nosepass) so fix the overview.
 
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Rowan

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Eviolite
==========
name: Eviolite
move 1: Psychic
move 2: Energy Ball
move 3: Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Taunt
ability: Shadow Tag
item: Eviolite
evs: 240 SpA / 240 Spe
nature: Modest

Choice Scarf
=======
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Psychic
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Energy Ball
ability: Shadow Tag
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 240 SpA / 240 Spd
nature: Modest

agreeing with fitzy,
i think these should be the only 2 sets. Reason thunderbolt isn't on Eviolite set is cos it can't actually outspeed stuff like Archen, which the scarf set can so it's more important there. Eviolite set can run more bulk instead of speed but should always be Max Modest. I'd be willing to accept a bulkier spread if you gave calcs of something. Dunno why you want Timid on Scarf tbh any reason in particular?
 
The only reason I ran that sort of bulk was because of Slowpoke and Pawniard iirc. I want to suggest changing the EVs to 200 Def and 240 SpA Modest. In doing calculations against all the top threats' standard sets, with Psychic/HP Fighting/TBolt/EBall the only mons it failed to beat 1v1 (with stealth rock on both sides) were Carvanha, Abra, Porygon, Leech Seed Ferroseed, Support Drilbur (if SR is up on Gothita's side, otherwise Gothita wins), and Spore Foongus (and although not standard, Adamant Pawniard). I feel like these are definately the best EVs for the eviolite set. Dose anyone have a different view?
 
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