Battle Spot Special Season 6: Doubles Underused

[Theorymon]

Recently, gamefreak seems to have taken a page from OUR book for the second time! That's because next season, Battle Spot Special is going to be Gamefreak's doubles Underused!

Below is the banlist. Note that while Gamefreak's banlist isn't as big as a smogon UU banlist, Gamefreak still bans the top 19 Pokémon PLUS all their formes, so this still dramatically changes the metagame!

Banlist

Aegislash
Amoonguss
Charizard
Cresselia
Garchomp
Gengar
Greninja
Gyarados
Kangaskhan
Landorus (both formes)
Mawile
Meowstic
Rotom (all formes)
Salamence
Sylveon
Talonflame
Thundurus (both formes)
Togekiss
Tyranitar
​

I'm not going to go into speculating QUITE yet (though we have talked about the potentials of this metagame quite a bit recently in #Pokemon , so I will post soon!), but one thing I will note right now. You might want to get Pinsirite from that Gamestop promotion if you can't get that in your version, because it sounds like Mega Pinsir might be a major part of this metagame!

 

[Audiosurfer]

well one quick observation is that rain will be much more potent than in the normal metagame I imagine. Both Charizard Y and Tyranitar are gone under this banlist, and Amoonguss is gone too, which is one of the biggest thorns in the side of Kingdra, who used to be a premier rain abuser in gen 5, as well as to rain in general. other boosts to kingdra/rain are that thundurus is banned (so it can't paralyze your Swift Swimmers) and that two prominent fairies are banned (one of which had follow me and tailwind to render kingdra much less effective). in short could see it being very threatening in this metagame, especially backed by Helping Hand boosts from Politoed. while ludicolo has fake out, its other main advantages over kingdra (ignoring amoonguss and gobbling rotom-w) are not present in this meta, so I think that its improved offensive typing and stats will make the kingdra + politoed combo very prevalent

 

[Near]

I expect there to be a lot more Fighting types since Talonflame, Cresselia, Togekiss, Aegislash, Mega-Mawile, and Sylveon are out of the way. Assault Vest Fighting types could be pretty popular in a meta that might be dominated by Rain. I could see Gardevoir and Staraptor as popular anti-Fighting picks.

With Thundurus out of the way I'd say Whismicott and Klefki are now the best Prankster users. While Whimsicott resists Water and Electric it lacks the 100% paralysis move which Klefki does have.

Intimidate Qwilfish is also a Pokemon I've been looking at since it resists Fairy, Fighting, and Water. 80 base speed is faster than all Fairy-types except for Timid Gardevoir. It can deal very good damage to Blaziken (who no longer needs to fear Talonflame) and Gardevoir with Waterfall and Poison Jab and then Aqua Jet for the KO against weakened enemies.

Mega-Manectric will probably by Mega with its ability to seriously injury a lot of Pokemon on Rain teams.

Since Aegislash and Gengar are gone, I've been thinking about Cofagrigus. Ally Switch combined with its ability "Mummy" could be disruptive against teams with Fighting type Pokemon or physical attackers like Azumarill.

 

[flarz]

Weavile may have a presence here, also Hitmontop with Fake Out and both guard moves.

 

[Near]

Yeah, Hitmontop could be huge. It has a lot of utility and options. Tyrogue gets Helping Hand so it's possible we may see some Hitmontops with that. Mach Punch would be a good move anti-Weavile move if it's common enough.

 

[Hulavuta]

Ferrothorn is my favorite Pokemon to use in Doubles so I'm glad it's legal here and I'm definitely going to use it. It could be pretty nice if the metagame does become mostly Rain.

 

[flarz]

Perish Trap teams anyone?

 

[Campaign]

With Thundurus out of the way I'd say Whismicott and Klefki are now the best Prankster users.

Time to shine wide lens sableye

 

[ck49]

I'm in the process of building my team, and will be competing.

Rain teams will definetely be a threat. Because of that, I feel like Mega-venuasaur and Manetric will be two of the best megas. Shutting down rain is big. Azumaril and your own Ludicolo are certainly plausible pokemon to use, as are Lapras and pokemon with hurricane.

Some of the best pokemon which aren't banned (non-rain) include Gardevoir, Hydreigon, Smeargle, and Zapdos. Also, Pachirisu.

I feel like a lot of the battle spot doubles meta is based off of VGC. Granted, Cresselia, Landorus, and Thundurus are all banned, but other stuff which is very good from previous gens isn't. Heatran comes to mind. Also, stuff which uses pokebank moves, like Hyper Voice, is allowed, so be ready for pixelate mega-gardevoir (and arguably more importantly, chatot).

A lot of pokemon which have specific niches and do their job very well aren't banned. Aerodactyl (sky drop), Staraptor (final gambit), Bisharp (anti-intimidate), Politoed (rain), Raichu (lightningrod), and Smeargle (whatever you need) are the big ones, so a team which needs one of these things still has a top-notch abuser.

Intimidate is well, nerfed. With Gyarados, Salamence, Landorus, and Mawile all gone, it wont be around as much. Staraptor, Manetric, Hitmontop, and Scrafty seem to be the best users of it now.

That's all I've got. I'm running Blaziken/Hydregion/Gardevoir/Venusaur/Azumarill/Bisharp, mostly because I wanted to use Blaziken in a double battle, although if Blaziken blows I migh switch it out. I'm not going to go into any more detail because, well, I might be playing you guys.

 

[Campaign]

I'm in the process of building my team, and will be competing.

Rain teams will definetely be a threat. Because of that, I feel like Mega-venuasaur and Manetric will be two of the best megas. Shutting down rain is big.

Yep, they are going to be everywhere without Rotom/Thundorus. Already on battlespot and PS people are testing them out and I'm noticing an enormous rise in the frequency of rain team encounters.

I'm in the process of building my team, and will be competing.
A lot of pokemon which have specific niches and do their job very well aren't banned.......and Smeargle (whatever you need) are the big ones, so a team which needs one of these things still has a top-notch abuser.

After spending the night playing 3 different types of smeargle - Namely the following:
Kings shield/Sticky Web/magic coat/Destiny bond
Dark void/fakeout/transform
Dark void/Baton pass/shell smash
I even tried to be cute and made a Dark void/Roar of time/Draco Meteor/V-Create.

I would say smeargle is going to be destroyed in this new meta. Even with KS.

Infact, I tried running Galv@sash to try to get the web down asap but, to no surprise, it doesn't work against 90% of doubles teams

 

[Deleted User 220884]

Gardevoir isn't ban which is good. Aswell with Zapdos, which is good as I use those 2 often. But Gengar, Amoongus, Garchomp, etc are gone. Kinda bull, but no genies soo happy. They should do one for battlespot singles next season aswell.

 

[ck49]

Gardevoir isn't ban which is good. Aswell with Zapdos, which is good as I use those 2 often. But Gengar, Amoongus, Garchomp, etc are gone. Kinda bull, but no genies soo happy. They should do one for battlespot singles next season aswell.

Well, I can still use TORNADUS. Watch out... (lol no. Although it might be decent on a rain team with Thundurus gone).

 

[EnGarde]

Well, I can still use TORNADUS. Watch out... (lol no. Although it might be decent on a rain team with Thundurus gone).

Without thundy, tornadus is probably the best offensive prankster in the metagame. It might've been out-classed by the other genies, but it's still a pretty good pokemon in its own right.

 

[sonicpunk1111]

So now that this season is live, what is everyones thoughts so far? I'm seeing alot of venasaur and lvl 1 endevaour mons.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I should actually try this. Tornadus + Smeargle. Nintales + Venusaur or Victreebel. Nothing too complicated, but it occurred to me that I can at least use some reasonable replacements for the bigger guns.

How strong has rain been so far? Real strong?

It also occurs to me that with the absence of Charizard, Talonflame and Rotom-Heat, this could finally be Scizor's time to shine again. Lucario too.

And Togekiss and Amoonguss both being banned might make this Clefable's game as far as redirection goes. Give that thing Minimize too and holy f*ck. Or maybe even Eviolite Togetic?

EDIT -- There is noooooo one playing this on Showdown right now. All right, I'm going to breed one Pokemon for this, and one Pokemon only. The rest will be things I already have that pair kind of not terribly together.

Someone help me with a nature and EV spread for Follow Me Clefable. Leaning toward Bold, but then what to do with the EVs?

 

[EnGarde]

Just took a peek at usage statistics for this format, and it's interesting to see who the early dominators are:

1. Gardevoir
2. Azumarill
3. Scizor
4. Zapdos
5. Politoed
   
6. Heatran
7. Abomasnow
8. Infernape
9. Chandelure
10. Hydreigon
11. Metagross
12. Venusaur

This list will obviously change with time, but it's interesting to see what people are using.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

First match here went swimmingly. I'm using the tried-and-true method of "ignore PGL statistics and build a team with things in your box + Clefable because it's the best redirector in this format."

Couldn't save the video as my Vs. Recorder was out of space, but I brought a little TopMoth and a little Mega Heracross + Minimize/Follow Me Clefable. The opponent had standard support Raichu (revealed Fake Out and Enocre; was probably Sashed but we'll never know because Heracross), Metagross, Mega Blaziken and Crobat. Heracross and Clefable cleared the field single-handedly.

I only just realized Hydreigon was legal here though. That's huge.

Clefable is so nasty, you guys. Things can't even land a Taunt on it if it starts setting up Evasion.

EDIT -- Just finished match #2 against a 1,600s player.

I'm leaving the video code here because this match has everything: UNPW-WWWW-WWW9-MN6H.

Mega Pinsir vs. Mega Heracross. Icy Wind Mr. Mime (wish I'd seen that coming so I could've set up Tail Wind). Clefable doing Clefably things. Would've lost if not for a lucky Heat Wave miss, but it also would've gone infinitely more smoothly if I'd had any clue what Mr. Mime was up to on turn one (I thought it was just going to Fake Out).

 

[Theorymon]

I played around 40 matches yesterday. I didnt even break 1600 at the end (was above it for a bit though) because I was expairmenting. Here's what I've seen a lot of so far:

Mega Gardevoir: This thing is EXTREMELY deadly. Hyper Voice is strong as hell, and it has some good speed too. I've mostly been using Heatran to deal with it, and amusingly enough, some of them have been losing to Wide Guard Hitmontop >_>. Still though, I'm not surprised its the most used mon currently!

Mega Blastoise and Raichu: This is really odd, but I saw this combo a lot. The idea seems to be "attract electric moves with lignthing rod, Water Spout with Mega Blastoise". Not too deadly, but I do want to experiment some more with Mega Blastoise.

Scizor: This seems to be a reaction to Mega Gardevoir. Hasn't been too deadly, but its no joke either.

Rain: YEP, as we expected, rain is fairly prominent in this metagame. I usually see it paired with Kingdra and Mega Blastoise, but I've seen a few Ludicolo as well.

Heatran: DESPITE the huge amount of rain, I still see a lot of Heatran. Seems to deal with Mega Gardevoir well enough, and Heat Wave is pretty neat.

Zapdos: I've been seeing a ton of these as the usage stats say. Not only does it have utility on rain teams, it also resists Mega Pinsir, and has good spread moves like Heat Wave. Also helps that Thundurus is banned!

Mega Aerodactyl: I've been seeing a lot more of these than expected. Seems to be the Sky Drop set, and its annoying because Sky Drop seems to ignore Follow Me for me (Unless I misclicked, I did play with little sleep!).

Just early impressions so far, theres a lot more to see as I get higher on the ladder! My current, early but more refined team is as follows:

Pachirisu / Mega Pinsir / Mega Venusaur / Hitmontop / Heatran / Azumarill

Ok I'm sure Pachirisu is sticking out like a sore thumb, but I'm NOT using it just because "SEJUN PARK IS THE BEST!!!!!". As it turns out, this metagame is well suited towards Pachirisu's Follow Me talents. While Clefable and Togetic (and Electabuzz + Magmar if you can get their XD moves) are bulkier, Pachirisu has got two aces in the hole that has made it really useful for me. The big thing is the Electric typing. Thanks to that typing, I've been able to protect some very important mons from harm, such as Mega Venusaur from Mega Pinsir and Tornadus, Azumarill from Zapdos, etc. The other, of course is Super Fang. Super Fang means Pachirisu can actually do some legit damage, softening up mons for KOs later! Also, I have to admit that Nuzzle's sash destroying power is pretty rad.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Ok I'm sure Pachirisu is sticking out like a sore thumb, but I'm NOT using it just because "SEJUN PARK IS THE BEST!!!!!". As it turns out, this metagame is well suited towards Pachirisu's Follow Me talents. While Clefable and Togetic (and Electabuzz + Magmar if you can get their XD moves) are bulkier, Pachirisu has got two aces in the hole that has made it really useful for me. The big thing is the Electric typing. Thanks to that typing, I've been able to protect some very important mons from harm, such as Mega Venusaur from Mega Pinsir and Tornadus, Azumarill from Zapdos, etc. The other, of course is Super Fang. Super Fang means Pachirisu can actually do some legit damage, softening up mons for KOs later! Also, I have to admit that Nuzzle's sash destroying power is pretty rad.

Saw you a bit above me on the ladder last night. I think I'm now in the top 10 for the U.S. by breaking about 1620 or so, but that shouldn't last long. I'm sure there are a lot of really strong doubles players who haven't even started this format yet.

I definitely hear you on Pachirisu. I've actually got it on one of the VGC teams I'm thinking about using for fall events. I really wanted to avoid it with all the post-Sejun Worlds copying over on the Showdown ladder, where it appeared for weeks on teams it had absolutely no place on. But I arrived at it pretty naturally. It shares no weaknesses with the thing it'll be primarily redirecting away from (whereas, say, Amoongus does), and the team greatly benefits from its optional speed control. What're you gonna do? Super Fang is also a stupidly good tool.

It's actually a candidate to replace Clefable on my Battle Spot Season 6 team if that starts going afoul. Like you, I've gone in with some pretty slap-dash combos and am planning on switching members in and out whenever I hit two losses in a row (which hasn't happened yet, but I'm sure it will once I start hitting the top of the 1600s, if not earlier). The Volcarona I'm using isn't even IV bred or EV trained. It just has max EVs randomly distributed from using it in horde training for other things. : /

 

[Hulavuta]

Breaking my 777 post count because I played in this ladder last night! Very fun! Currently at 3-1. After reading Whiskey Tango's post, I just decided "yeah, I'm just gonna throw together a bunch of Pokemon I have + Ferrothorn and try to work with it" so I ended up with Zapdos, Azumarill, Ferrothorn, Venusaur, Hitmontop, and Hydreigon. Surprisingly it worked pretty well.

As I said above, I played four matches so far, two were against Americans and were really easy (I won one match without ever switching...) but the two games against Japanese were really good. The one I lost to was really close, it came down to a 1-0. He used a really interesting lead of Bisharp + Mega Aerodactyl which really threw me off, especially since I unfortunately led with Hitmontop (derp me). The strategy was basically double Protect the first turn to stop Fake Outs, then Sky Drop one Pokemon and Sucker Punch the other to make sure I was constantly not able to do anything. It really confused me so I made some questionable plays but overall I think it was a really good match. I'm gonna drop the replay here: QF3G-WWWW-WWW9-N9FZ

Looking forward to playing more of this ladder! I might switch something out for Scizor since people are saying that's pretty good here. What sets are you all using?

 

[lucariomaster2]

This is a Special ladder that I will definitely be taking part in! Looks like Tailwind will be... much more difficult to achieve, so I may try something else. My Mega will definitely be Special Lucario; everyone expects physical, so they switch in their Intimidator, only for it to get smacked with Aura Sphere. 'tis a good feeling indeed.

Beyond that, it means I won't have to deal with Mega Mawile, Lando-T, Gyarados, or Salamence, which I have trouble with on the normal ladder. On the other hand, it means I can't use Talonflame, Garchomp, or Mega Kangaskhan. I'll try running Porygon-Z; it has the sheer power to OHKO a surprising number of things with Download + Expert Belt. A poor man's Genesect (that is allowed), if you will. I'll probably also bring back my Bisharp to deal with the Intimidate users that are still running around. I use a lot of underused mons such as Breloom and Nidoqueen anyway, so this should be pretty fun.

 

[EnGarde]

This is a Special ladder that I will definitely be taking part in! Looks like Tailwind will be... much more difficult to achieve, so I may try something else. My Mega will definitely be Special Lucario; everyone expects physical, so they switch in their Intimidator, only for it to get smacked with Aura Sphere. 'tis a good feeling indeed.

Beyond that, it means I won't have to deal with Mega Mawile, Lando-T, Gyarados, or Salamence, which I have trouble with on the normal ladder. On the other hand, it means I can't use Talonflame, Garchomp, or Mega Kangaskhan. I'll try running Porygon-Z; it has the sheer power to OHKO a surprising number of things with Download + Expert Belt. A poor man's Genesect (that is allowed), if you will. I'll probably also bring back my Bisharp to deal with the Intimidate users that are still running around. I use a lot of underused mons such as Breloom and Nidoqueen anyway, so this should be pretty fun.

Word of caution: mega lucario is frail, and requires good team support and prediction to work properly. Also, you might prefer bullet punch over flash cannon for destroying mega gardevoir. Next, the best intimidators are all banned in this format (landorus-t, gyarados, mega mawile, and salamence), and you wouldn't leave luke in against some of the remaining options (arcanine, krookodile), so you might want to consider using physical lucario.

Having said that, I really like lucario myself, and wish you the best of luck trying it out! :D

 

[DeadPants182]

I was really excited for this season, but so far my only takeaway has been that if I get paired up against someone with a Japanese name, I might as well turn off my 3DS. I've been getting destroyed by Japanese players left and right, including someone who PP stalled me out with a Chansey running Minimize, Substitute, and Rest. There was another match where I almost won, but my opponent got a crit with Pin Missile and I raged as hard as I ever have playing Pokemon.

 

[EnGarde]

I was really excited for this season, but so far my only takeaway has been that if I get paired up against someone with a Japanese name, I might as well turn off my 3DS. I've been getting destroyed by Japanese players left and right, including someone who PP stalled me out with a Chansey running Minimize, Substitute, and Rest. There was another match where I almost won, but my opponent got a crit with Pin Missile and I raged as hard as I ever have playing Pokemon.

Body slam always hits and deals double damage against pokemon that have set up minimize. Try adding a pokemon that knows this move to your team to combat them.

If you're coming from playing straight OU, there is a bit of a learning curve. Don't be afraid to experiment with unique sets and be prepared to deal with difficult and annoying strategies, such as minimize chansey and swagplay klefki. Your opponents are playing to win. You'll need to be prepared to do the same if you want to beat them.

 

[DeadPants182]

Body slam always hits and deals double damage against pokemon that have set up minimize. Try adding a pokemon that knows this move to your team to combat them.

If you're coming from playing straight OU, there is a bit of a learning curve. Don't be afraid to experiment with unique sets and be prepared to deal with difficult and annoying strategies, such as minimize chansey and swagplay klefki. Your opponents are playing to win. You'll need to be prepared to do the same if you want to beat them.

To be fair, I am new to the metagame, so I'm still learning what I need to have in my team. It's just hard to not lose hope when my win/loss record is something like 4-11.