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Super Smash Bros 4 (Spoilers ITT)
- Thread starter LonelyNess
- Start date
I don't disagree with the choice to remove Wolf and Lucas and replace them with more deserving characters
I do however disagree with the choice to replace Wolf and Lucas with Dark Pit and Lucina
Lucina was included because she was originally going to be an alternate skin for Marth, but even a almost negligible battle difference warrants another character slot. She was included to not let development time on her go to waste.
Dark Pit was just a stupid choice. Even by clone standards. Even Pichu would have been a better choice than him.
so you're saying we can't have three new characters because of time and programming? i really don't see the reason of having those 3 clones in the game. you're basically saying that nintendo couldn't put them in because it was "too hard".
hahahahahaah
no no, no no no no
honey
Dr. Mario was one of the most popular arcade and early Nintendo games of all time. Ask anyone over the age of 25 and they'll tell you they LOVED the old Dr. Mario games.
No, Nintendo put them in as an extra. There was not time to put in 3 brand new characters; it would require programming whole new movesets, animations, voice clips etc. etc. and it takes time. Nintendo being lazy isn't the problem here, new characters just take time to program properly, whereas clones take significantly less time - you can just rip the attack properties and animations from the original character with ease.
Clones do not "take the place" of another character because they are just extras. This is extremely apparent by the fact that the clones are in their own little section on the character select screen... They are extras and nothing more. It's not like Nintendo said "we are going to have 49 characters in this game -- who should we choose?" It's not even like the time taken to create these clones took a slot from another character...
Also Champion Cynthia, in addition to what Oglemi said, Kid Icarus: Uprising and Fire Emblem: Awakening are two of the most high-profile, popular and best-selling games of this generation for Nintendo, and they certainly are on the Nintendo 3DS. As this game is taking more inspiration from handheld games than ever, it only makes sense that some of their most popular characters (Lucina and Dark Pit) get in.
Though don't get me wrong, I'm not too keen on the "clones" either, but I'd rather have them than not at all or nothing else.
I also think people are jumping to conclusions on this being the "only and most final of rosters." I think the recent MK8 DLC has made it clear that Nintendo is willing to, and most very likely will, add not just new skins or w/e but wholesale characters and tracks (which would translate to stages and characters for Sm4sh).
Let's just play the wait and see game for the Wii U and beyond on this one before starting hate debates on the character roster.
I also think people are jumping to conclusions on this being the "only and most final of rosters." I think the recent MK8 DLC has made it clear that Nintendo is willing to, and most very likely will, add not just new skins or w/e but wholesale characters and tracks (which would translate to stages and characters for Sm4sh).
Let's just play the wait and see game for the Wii U and beyond on this one before starting hate debates on the character roster.
What pisses me off is that Kid Icarus and Fire Emblem got to three and four reps respectively, not to mention new stages for each, and a buttload of new items and a couple of AT's for KI. Meanwhile Donkey Kong gets like, 1 Smash Run enemy and a new track, and lingers on only two characters. That's it.
This despite the fact that the 3DS version of DKC Returns alone sold better than both Uprising and Awakening.
And Dr Mario isn't even a character, he's just Mario in a lab coat ffs. I thought he was cut from brawl for a reason but evidently not.
Even by the standards of clones, I don't believe these characters are deserving. Two are flavour of the month additions from games that already had a rep and the other is literally already there with like 7 of his friends.
Sure, clones don't eat into development time the way that full characters do, but there are still better options.
This despite the fact that the 3DS version of DKC Returns alone sold better than both Uprising and Awakening.
And Dr Mario isn't even a character, he's just Mario in a lab coat ffs. I thought he was cut from brawl for a reason but evidently not.
Even by the standards of clones, I don't believe these characters are deserving. Two are flavour of the month additions from games that already had a rep and the other is literally already there with like 7 of his friends.
Sure, clones don't eat into development time the way that full characters do, but there are still better options.
So I'm looking at the total 3DS stage list, and while I'm not the biggest tournament player the lack of true neutral/cp stages is concerning for the 3DS version. Basically it looks like we have
-Final Destination
-Battlefield
-Arena Ferox
-Yoshi's Island
Unless there are some factors on these stages I don't know about.
I suppose some of the travelling stages could be CP for some, but I've never been the biggest fan. I suppose those four will have to do...
-Final Destination
-Battlefield
-Arena Ferox
-Yoshi's Island
Unless there are some factors on these stages I don't know about.
I suppose some of the travelling stages could be CP for some, but I've never been the biggest fan. I suppose those four will have to do...
Yeah. I'm fairly sure the development team just said "whatever we have FD versions of every stage that's good enough right?
I could see these as counter picks, too:
-Boxing Ring (3DS)
-Tomodachi Life
-Tortimer Island
-Prism Tower
Japes and Corneria are fine counterpicks, Corneria even moreso than in Melee or Brawl due to changes to the game itself. The wall is really no longer problematic, so the stage is officially good. FD stages also have slight variations in platform size. Unova Pokemon league has potential, and we have Halberd and likely a few other stages to look forward to on the Wii U.
Nothing will be better than P:M or hacked Brawl in competitive stage variation though. :9
Nothing will be better than P:M or hacked Brawl in competitive stage variation though. :9
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Likely we'll have these, as well as Brinstar (Likely a CP... The reason why its banned in Brawl is cuz MK rapes there, more than usual. That isn't a problem anymore), Reset Bomb Factory/Forest (Idr what exactly the name is... probably a CP), and Tortimer Island (Another CP likely, maybe a starter).
As for Arena Ferox, its no different than PS1 in Melee. Also Corneria and Prism Tower need some looking into. Prism Tower because of some of the transformations, and Corneria because of the walls. Jungle Japes as well, its klaptrap is a bit different this time and needs to looking into.
The FD stages are interesting as each one works differently. I can see some of the smaller ones going as CPs tbh, but the ones with full length walls need to go imo. Characters with wall jumps recover too easily, it seems. Edit: Also ones with strictly vertical recoveries. With the new edge mechs, this is a problem
Boxing Ring stands no chance. Too big, lights camping, walk-offs, yeah.
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Corneria is an awful stage and should never be legal. Tomodachi Life is also a no-no because it's very easy to circle-stall, plus it's visually confusing to look at.
Bouncing off of what Layell said, while I'm concerned for the lack of viable stages, this could be a good thing. We don't really need a large stage list in Smash. 3 Neutrals and then 2-3 counterpicks are all we really need. As for the Omega stages, we'll have to figure something out with them. Some of them have flat lips underneath, and some have angled lips. We could probably group all of those together if they're similar enough.
Bouncing off of what Layell said, while I'm concerned for the lack of viable stages, this could be a good thing. We don't really need a large stage list in Smash. 3 Neutrals and then 2-3 counterpicks are all we really need. As for the Omega stages, we'll have to figure something out with them. Some of them have flat lips underneath, and some have angled lips. We could probably group all of those together if they're similar enough.
Tortimer Island has a walk-off blastline from what I heard, so I doubt it will be tournament legal (for the love of God someone correct me if I'm wrong).
Also, I love how R.O.B. is still in the game. I never owned a NES, but he looks freaking awesome and I always found him fun to play.
I'm kind of doubting Boxing Ring and Tomodachi life since they're too easy to camp and are kinda awkard to play on (especially Tomodachi), but Tortimer Island and MAYBE Prism Tower will see counterpick status.
Considering the usual rulesets, we're probly gunna see stuff like FD/Battlefield/Yoshis as neutrals and Tortimer, Ferox, and Prism Tower as counterpicks.
Considering the usual rulesets, we're probly gunna see stuff like FD/Battlefield/Yoshis as neutrals and Tortimer, Ferox, and Prism Tower as counterpicks.
Yes, I too loved the games, but not Dr. Mario himself. Only Melee fans love Dr. Mario enough to want him back in Smash over Lucas/Wolf/Ice Climbers.
I can agree with you here. I forgot that Smash is based on the moment as as well as classic in terms of new characters, and having played both those games I can see what you mean. I don't think Dark Pit was as much as Lucina though, it seems that Dark Pit was mostly Sakurai acting on promoting his own game.
In the end, it still strikes me odd that Ice Climbers are classic Nintendo, Lucas is very popular with the Americas, and StarFox has a new game on the horizon yet Ice Climbers, Lucas, and Wolf wont be retuning.
Speaking of Corneria, do we know anything new about the StarFox stage for Wii U?
Luckily I managed to snag a demo from a user on ign so here are some first impressions of the game.
Graphics: The game looks very good for a 3ds game. The 5 current character models look great, stages are very detailed, and the consistent 60 frames per second only adds to the experience. Visual effects suck as explosions and the fighters attacking also look very good. The only noticeable problem is the pixillation, but most 3ds games suffer from this problem, so it isn't too big of an issue.
Music: Fantastic as usual. I really liked the remixes of classic themes like the super mario bros 3 athletic theme and Mega Man 2 title theme. Other themes such as the snes f-zero theme also sounds nice. My favorite new track would be this one.
Controls: The controls will take some time to get used to for anyone who plays smash with the GC Controller. I mainly played with the classic controller for previous smash bros games, so i didn't notice any real flaws with the controls apart from the L and R buttons occasionally not responding.
Gameplay: Need more experience before i can properly evaluate this, but so far, the game feels a lot faster than brawl.
Graphics: The game looks very good for a 3ds game. The 5 current character models look great, stages are very detailed, and the consistent 60 frames per second only adds to the experience. Visual effects suck as explosions and the fighters attacking also look very good. The only noticeable problem is the pixillation, but most 3ds games suffer from this problem, so it isn't too big of an issue.
Music: Fantastic as usual. I really liked the remixes of classic themes like the super mario bros 3 athletic theme and Mega Man 2 title theme. Other themes such as the snes f-zero theme also sounds nice. My favorite new track would be this one.
Controls: The controls will take some time to get used to for anyone who plays smash with the GC Controller. I mainly played with the classic controller for previous smash bros games, so i didn't notice any real flaws with the controls apart from the L and R buttons occasionally not responding.
Gameplay: Need more experience before i can properly evaluate this, but so far, the game feels a lot faster than brawl.
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If you don't think Dr.Mario landing a kobe is the sickest shit ever, then get outta my face.
Doesnt appear to be a picture today.
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No picture today as it's Respect for the Aged day (National holiday) in Japan. Updates should resume tomorrow, however.