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350 Cup
- Thread starter Halliday
- Start date
Pikachuun
the entire waruda machine
So I've decided to make a terrible attempt at a Hyper-Offense team, someone pointed out my ghost weak, so I decided to put something that can at least switch in on specs ghost attacks on my team. I also needed a Shroomish counter, so I came up with this.
bitd (Rufflet) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Hone Claws
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- Return / Shadow Claw
Not only can this switch in on any Shroomish and start setting up on it, it also can recover off leech seed stalling or various attacks. EVs could probably be optimized better, but I digress. Brave Bird is obvious. Return is for your secondary STAB, which should be used if you don't like the recoil caused by BB. Shadow Claw is less powerful but hits Ghost and Psychic types super-effectively, which is nice.
Also I beat TheBurgerKing99 with it so that makes this set good right?
bitd (Rufflet) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Hone Claws
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- Return / Shadow Claw
Not only can this switch in on any Shroomish and start setting up on it, it also can recover off leech seed stalling or various attacks. EVs could probably be optimized better, but I digress. Brave Bird is obvious. Return is for your secondary STAB, which should be used if you don't like the recoil caused by BB. Shadow Claw is less powerful but hits Ghost and Psychic types super-effectively, which is nice.
Also I beat TheBurgerKing99 with it so that makes this set good right?
Krokorok has better stat distribution, better abilities, a better movepool, and access to eviolite. All of which make it a decent/niched low tier pokemon. Farfetch'd has...a leek that says "eat me". Don't make comments on making unintelligent posts in the form of unintelligent posts. On a more serious note, this guy-
Diglett Life Orb / Expert Belt / Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap / Sand Force
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide / Stone Edge
- Hone Claws / Reversal / Aerial Ace
Oh look, dugtrio on steroids. Great for taking out pesky abras and voltorbs.
S-Rank
Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the 350 Cup metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this tier have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.
Cranidos
A-Rank
Reserved for Pokemon that are outstanding in the 350 Cup metagame and can sweep, wall, or support the majority of the tier. These Pokemon require less support than other Pokemon to be used effectively and have few flaws that can be overlooked when compared to their outstanding traits.
High
Gastly
Shroomish
Staravia
Slowpoke
Smeargle
Mid
Abra
Foongus
Hippopotas
Slowpoke
Timburr
Low
Arceus - Normal
Arceus - Water
Drilbur
Ferroseed
Groudon
Kyogre
Elgyem
Caravanha
Timburr
B-Rank
Reserved for Pokemon who are great in the 350 Cup metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than of those above it that affects how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.
High
Azuril
Corphish
Houndor
Oddish
Stunky
Vibrava
Mid
Clamperl
Froakie
Gengar Mega
Krabby
Meditite
Rufflet
Scraggy
Tentacool
Yveltal
Zorua
Low
Bronzor
Growlithe
Koffing
Magnemite
Trapinch
C-Rank
Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the 350 Cup metagame, but have just as notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective in 350 Cup. C rank Pokemon tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.
High
Bunnelby
Cubone
Honedge
Phanpy
Rhyhorn
Sandshrew
Solosis
Mid
Axew
Deino
Duduo
Low
Diglet
Ditto
Mankey
D-Rank
Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the 350 Cup metagame, but are decent enough to justify their use on some teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that.
Smoochum
Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the 350 Cup metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this tier have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.
Cranidos
A-Rank
Reserved for Pokemon that are outstanding in the 350 Cup metagame and can sweep, wall, or support the majority of the tier. These Pokemon require less support than other Pokemon to be used effectively and have few flaws that can be overlooked when compared to their outstanding traits.
High
Gastly
Shroomish
Staravia
Slowpoke
Smeargle
Mid
Abra
Foongus
Hippopotas
Slowpoke
Timburr
Low
Arceus - Normal
Arceus - Water
Drilbur
Ferroseed
Groudon
Kyogre
Elgyem
Caravanha
Timburr
B-Rank
Reserved for Pokemon who are great in the 350 Cup metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than of those above it that affects how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.
High
Azuril
Corphish
Houndor
Oddish
Stunky
Vibrava
Mid
Clamperl
Froakie
Gengar Mega
Krabby
Meditite
Rufflet
Scraggy
Tentacool
Yveltal
Zorua
Low
Bronzor
Growlithe
Koffing
Magnemite
Trapinch
C-Rank
Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the 350 Cup metagame, but have just as notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective in 350 Cup. C rank Pokemon tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.
High
Bunnelby
Cubone
Honedge
Phanpy
Rhyhorn
Sandshrew
Solosis
Mid
Axew
Deino
Duduo
Low
Diglet
Ditto
Mankey
D-Rank
Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the 350 Cup metagame, but are decent enough to justify their use on some teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that.
Smoochum
Last edited:
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
so this is missing tons of things. Thats ok though, we get a blank canvas. are you going to put it in the OP?
Hippopotas at A imo
bronzor at B- (its kinda overrated)
Froakie at B (why does nobody use this?)
Drilbur at A- or A
Rufflet at B+ (mostly because of its ability to defog, this thing needs further testing on my part though)
Meditite at B
Growlithe at C+ or B-
Clamperl for B (this thing is nothing to scoff at, even with a LO this thing after a smash hits like an absolute truck)
Rhyhorn at C+
Vibrava at A-
Koffing at B-
Tentacool at C-
Voltorb at E (just to get people to not mention it)
Zoura at B
Houndour at B+
Magnemite at B-
Honedge at C+ (most overrated pkmn in the tier srsly)
Axew at C
Slowpoke should be A or A+, the thing walls anything that doesnt boost and isin't named banded cranidos
Doduo at C (outclassed by staravia and rufflet)
Mankey at C-
Carvanha at A-
Smoochum at D
Timburr at B+ (faces competition from meinfoo except that it is a decent bulk up user)
Sandshrew at C- (stfu genwunners)
Deino at B- (it has its niche, but its not the best mon in the world)
Electrike at C (almost the same stat spread as mega manectric except more bulk and less intimidate, and no mega stone)
Solosis at B (kinda outclassed by other regens and magic guarders, but its still decent in the meta tbh)
Trapinch at C+ (sure it sucks for stall, but it doesn't outspeed anything and isin't all that bulky)
Ditto at D (setup sweeping is kind of rare in this meta, and with almost everything having decent bulk its irrelevant anyways)
Diglett at D (outclassed by trapinch due to the fact that it doesn't hit very hard and dies if it gets poked)
Bunnelby at B- (its actually pretty hard hitting atm, base 72 huge power hits pretty hard and it gets the boosting moves and coverage to wallbreak)
Elgyem at A- (very good at sweeping through stall teams due to its massive power and good bulk)
yayyyy for super long post for no reason
Hippopotas at A imo
bronzor at B- (its kinda overrated)
Froakie at B (why does nobody use this?)
Drilbur at A- or A
Rufflet at B+ (mostly because of its ability to defog, this thing needs further testing on my part though)
Meditite at B
Growlithe at C+ or B-
Clamperl for B (this thing is nothing to scoff at, even with a LO this thing after a smash hits like an absolute truck)
Rhyhorn at C+
Vibrava at A-
Koffing at B-
Tentacool at C-
Voltorb at E (just to get people to not mention it)
Zoura at B
Houndour at B+
Magnemite at B-
Honedge at C+ (most overrated pkmn in the tier srsly)
Axew at C
Slowpoke should be A or A+, the thing walls anything that doesnt boost and isin't named banded cranidos
Doduo at C (outclassed by staravia and rufflet)
Mankey at C-
Carvanha at A-
Smoochum at D
Timburr at B+ (faces competition from meinfoo except that it is a decent bulk up user)
Sandshrew at C- (stfu genwunners)
Deino at B- (it has its niche, but its not the best mon in the world)
Electrike at C (almost the same stat spread as mega manectric except more bulk and less intimidate, and no mega stone)
Solosis at B (kinda outclassed by other regens and magic guarders, but its still decent in the meta tbh)
Trapinch at C+ (sure it sucks for stall, but it doesn't outspeed anything and isin't all that bulky)
Ditto at D (setup sweeping is kind of rare in this meta, and with almost everything having decent bulk its irrelevant anyways)
Diglett at D (outclassed by trapinch due to the fact that it doesn't hit very hard and dies if it gets poked)
Bunnelby at B- (its actually pretty hard hitting atm, base 72 huge power hits pretty hard and it gets the boosting moves and coverage to wallbreak)
Elgyem at A- (very good at sweeping through stall teams due to its massive power and good bulk)
yayyyy for super long post for no reason
LMAO at A- rank Gordon
Also Abra deserves a spot at A+ and Cranidos doesn't really deserve S rank being outclassed by Axew in everything other than having bad offensive stab at a BP of only 80 or 120 rather than 100 or 150.
Also Abra deserves a spot at A+ and Cranidos doesn't really deserve S rank being outclassed by Axew in everything other than having bad offensive stab at a BP of only 80 or 120 rather than 100 or 150.
canno
formerly The Reptile
Rufflet for A or A- imo. This thing is just fantastic - has really good bulk for a bird, good speed and good power. It also has 2 great abilities in Sheer Force and Hustle. Sadly you can't use Superpower and Hustle together, but its still very good. Hustle can set-up with Hone Claws for a pseudo-SD, something Staravia can't boast, and it has the bulk to do it. Meanwhile Sheer Force can boost moves like Rock Slide for powerful rock coverage. Sheer Force also has access to Superpower to break Steel- and Rock-types. Choiced is good. Hone Claws is good. Even Bulk Up is good. Obviously it has some short comings, but overall its fantastic.
Also Phanpy for B- and Cubone for C. Sandshrew should also go B- imo if only for its access to Rapid Spin. I already talked about the mono Ground mons, so I won't say more.
Also Phanpy for B- and Cubone for C. Sandshrew should also go B- imo if only for its access to Rapid Spin. I already talked about the mono Ground mons, so I won't say more.
Clefairy deserves to be on there somewhere. It can do its best Spritzee imitation.
Hello. I have just joined Smogon, but people such as Mamp, Adrian, Arhops, etc. Know me from Showdown. I'm just gonna list some potential winners that haven't been looked at:
1. Binacle/Shellder: Shell Smashers that have the strength, and coverage, to muscle through most walls. Also, Neither are ultra-frail-can-be-killed-by-a-level-1-zubat-in-one-hit.
2. Scraggy: Give this thing an Assault Vest and he's ready! Moxie helps him gain momentum, while Poison Jab keeps Fairies checking themselves.
Quote this, add (potential) comments, and add whatever others you have used (preferably the changed ones) that aren't really shown any love here.
1. Binacle/Shellder: Shell Smashers that have the strength, and coverage, to muscle through most walls. Also, Neither are ultra-frail-can-be-killed-by-a-level-1-zubat-in-one-hit.
2. Scraggy: Give this thing an Assault Vest and he's ready! Moxie helps him gain momentum, while Poison Jab keeps Fairies checking themselves.
Quote this, add (potential) comments, and add whatever others you have used (preferably the changed ones) that aren't really shown any love here.
Rufflet is good, but really only as a choice band user. Otherwise, staravia is almost always the better choice, even in defogging, due to staravia having access to intimidate
xJownage
Even pendulums swing both ways
Somebody hasnt used hone claws rufflet...And even without intimidate, it ends up sponging hits from switchins much better. In a defogging role with hustle LO hone claws brave bird and return, it misses out on only a few threats despite the seemingly awful coverage. Bronzor can wall it and i guess shieldon too, but really what else is steel?
*cough* 252+ Atk Cranidos Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferroseed: 132-156 (34.7 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock *cough*
Staravia for S rank!
Reasons: Staravia is incredibly powerful AND speedy. Along with Reckless, it's easily the 2nd (only Rufflet which is slow) most powerful bird in town when using Brave Bird / Double-Edge and it can also dent the rest High ranked Pokemon with a Band set (makes sense because of great speed tier) and also notably OHKOes Rufflets. It also has wallbreaking capabilities like no other as it can 2HKO a 252/252+ Ferroseed, 252/252+ Hippopotas, 252/252+ Slowpoke, 252/252+ Groudon and OHKO roughly 60% of the lower 'mons. Not only that, but it can Defog (as previously mentioned by TBK himself), has priority (Quick Attack) and has the ability to U-turn out of every (bad) situation e.g MeGar. Note that Timburr can't even KO Staravia unless Guts-boosted Ice Punch/Drain Punch which means Staravia can switch into one and KO it if the Timburr tries to set-up.
Whereas reason to why it should not be S rank is not found, as you simply can't do anything about Staravia if you don't have a bulky pivot or a Voltorb... (it also dents it if you have one!)
"252 SpA Abra Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Staravia: 400-472 (110.8 - 130.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO"
Abra is guaranteed to outspeed if it has a timid nature, and will OHKO.
and BTW, this Abra doesn't even have an item:
"252 SpA Life Orb Abra Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Staravia: 520-614 (144 - 170%) -- guaranteed OHKO"
If you are afraid of the scarf, give Abra a Scarf. Scarves are good medicine for other scarves.
I don't count this as a valid argument. Sure, many things can outspeed and KO things, that's how Pokemon works. One can argue Landorus is shit because it's weak to Ice-typing, that's not an argument, we all know that. Plus, Abra has like no room for Thunderbolt anyways, the standard is Psychic / Shadow Ball / Dazzling Gleam / Substitute ( / Protect / Fighting), so that's another factor. And there's the fact that Quick Attack OHKOes Abra with a Choice Band, and even with a Jolly nature it does this still. Then there's also that Abra cannot switch into it ever, like ever. What even made you bring up Abra? It usually loses to Staravia and can't switch in, I fail to see the need to bring it up. Anyways, I don't have much of an opinion on Staravia, but S Rank is a perfectly acceptable rank for it, but I do see why A+ could be fine as well.
I think Drifloon needs to be considered for b+,A-, or A rank.
It's most potent set is it's rain team flare boost wall destroyer
It also works well(assumedly as I haven't tested it yet[rainfloon 3 fun]) as a specially defensive wisp unburden made to dismantle HO(maybe use a red card or WP)
It's most potent set is it's rain team flare boost wall destroyer
252+ SpA Flare Boost Drifloon Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Giratina: 344-408 (68.3 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Flare Boost Drifloon Weather Ball (100 BP Water) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Giratina in Rain: 216-255 (42.9 - 50.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery(this is assuming a neutral hit)
252+ SpA Flare Boost Drifloon Thunder vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Kyogre: 212-250 (52.6 - 62%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Flare Boost Drifloon Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Shedinja: 998-1176 (99800 - 117600%) -- guaranteed OHKO(that power)
252+ SpA Flare Boost Drifloon Weather Ball (100 BP Water) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Giratina in Rain: 216-255 (42.9 - 50.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery(this is assuming a neutral hit)
252+ SpA Flare Boost Drifloon Thunder vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Kyogre: 212-250 (52.6 - 62%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Flare Boost Drifloon Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Shedinja: 998-1176 (99800 - 117600%) -- guaranteed OHKO(that power)
It also works well(assumedly as I haven't tested it yet[rainfloon 3 fun]) as a specially defensive wisp unburden made to dismantle HO(maybe use a red card or WP)
+2 252 SpA Drifloon Hex (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Stunky: 157-186 (34.4 - 40.7%) -- 53.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage
4 Atk burned Stunky Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Drifloon: 144-171 (25.5 - 30.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO(keep in mind it would hit the first turn because floon would WoW)
+2 252 SpA Drifloon Hex (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cranidos: 606-714 (128.3 - 151.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 Atk burned Stunky Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Drifloon: 144-171 (25.5 - 30.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO(keep in mind it would hit the first turn because floon would WoW)
+2 252 SpA Drifloon Hex (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cranidos: 606-714 (128.3 - 151.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/350cup-165260255
the end of this battle shows a viable Staravia counter in Shellder, tanking a reckless BB and KOing
I gave mine Assault vest (to patch up the Sp. Def), Rock Blast (obvious), and Explosion (for those things that resist your every move)
not to mention the Sweeper Scraggy! just give him 2x Attack and loads of speed (torchic is useful for this purpose), and he'll start gaining momentum, even tanking an Abra's Dazzling Gleam! (AV)
the end of this battle shows a viable Staravia counter in Shellder, tanking a reckless BB and KOing
I gave mine Assault vest (to patch up the Sp. Def), Rock Blast (obvious), and Explosion (for those things that resist your every move)
not to mention the Sweeper Scraggy! just give him 2x Attack and loads of speed (torchic is useful for this purpose), and he'll start gaining momentum, even tanking an Abra's Dazzling Gleam! (AV)
No offense but there are several problems with that replay.
Air Slash on Zard-Y is usually useless, as Fire Blast outdamages it in the sun even against super effective targets.
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hitmonchan in Sun: 289-342 (119.9 - 141.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hitmonchan: 264-312 (109.5 - 129.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Baton Passing a bunch of stat boosts to something does not prove that a pokemon is good. I haven't yet used Scraggy so I'm not sure how good it is but the arguments you have presented are unconvincing.
Also, don't put AV on everything. Scraggy might be good with it because of its access to drain punch but it also means you can't use DD with leftovers. Shellder seems to be a particularly bad choice for AV because its base SPD is still so terribly low along with its base HP that you're essentially stripping it of status moves and shell smash to boost its SPD from 'absolutely terrible' to 'below average'. Sheller also didn't really 'counter' Staravia as it would have had to switch in on BB and then kill it or force it out to be considered a counter. Staravia already got a kill on Meditite so it had effectively done what it was 'supposed' to do, so at best we can say Shellder can be a check to Staravia, of which there are many.
There were also some questionable sets and weird plays. Zard-Y staying in on Cranidos for what reason? Sandstorm Drillbur, with Hippopotas around? Aqua Jet on Meditite after getting +2 from speed boost? Replays are generally terrible evidence unless you analyse them in more detail.
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Staravia Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Shellder: 234-276 (72.2 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
1.) That just showed how incredible Staravia is (yet again) in wallbreaking as that is certainly one. (and it even 2HKOes the 252/252+ spread so don't worry)
2.) How is (your) Shellder viable when:
VS THE GREAT WALL
0 Atk Shellder Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 150-180 (29.7 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
VS THE NEW GREAT WALL
0 Atk Shellder Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippopotas: 120-150 (25.2 - 31.5%) -- approx. 1.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
VS THE BLADE
0 Atk Shellder Razor Shell vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 72-85 (22.2 - 26.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery (yes this is not even in the rankings)
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Shellder: 154-183 (47.5 - 56.4%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO (Shellder outspeeds so blade activates afterwards)
VS THE SLOW ONE
0 Atk Shellder Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowpoke: 70-85 (12.4 - 15%) -- possibly the worst move ever
[cough]0 SpA Slowpoke Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Shellder: 46-55 (14.1 - 16.9%) -- possible 6HKO[/cough]
VS THE TIMBA!
0 Atk Shellder Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Timburr: 110-130 (21.8 - 25.7%) -- approx. 0.5% chance to 3HKO after burn damage (recovery from Drain Punch makes this a 4HKO)
252+ Atk Guts Timburr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Shellder: 127-151 (39.1 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
VS GOD
0 Atk Shellder Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Water: 100-120 (22.5 - 27%) -- approx. 15.6% chance to 4HKO
8+ SpA Splash Plate Arceus-Water Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Shellder: 81-96 (25 - 29.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
VS THE SEED
0 Atk Shellder Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferroseed: 55-70 (14.4 - 18.4%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Ferroseed Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Shellder: 54-66 (16.6 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO
VS THE CORPH
0 Atk Shellder Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 76 Def Corphish: 85-105 (22.6 - 27.9%) -- approx. 64.8% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Corphish Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Shellder: 99-117 (30.5 - 36.1%) -- 47.8% chance to 3HKO
VS THE OGRE
0 Atk Shellder Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyogre: 125-150 (36.5 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Kyogre Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Shellder: 282-334 (87 - 103%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
VS THE ALIEN
0 Atk Shellder Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Elgyem: 175-210 (41.2 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
228+ SpA Analytic Elgyem Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Shellder: 150-177 (46.2 - 54.6%) -- 56.6% chance to 2HKO
VS THE DOS
0 Atk Shellder Razor Shell + Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cranidos: 290-342 (70.8 - 83.6%)
252+ Atk Sheer Force Cranidos Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Shellder: 160-189 (49.3 - 58.3%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO (assuming Sash or all-out Adamant Scarf)
0 Atk Shellder Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 150-180 (29.7 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
VS THE NEW GREAT WALL
0 Atk Shellder Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippopotas: 120-150 (25.2 - 31.5%) -- approx. 1.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
VS THE BLADE
0 Atk Shellder Razor Shell vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 72-85 (22.2 - 26.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery (yes this is not even in the rankings)
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Shellder: 154-183 (47.5 - 56.4%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO (Shellder outspeeds so blade activates afterwards)
VS THE SLOW ONE
0 Atk Shellder Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowpoke: 70-85 (12.4 - 15%) -- possibly the worst move ever
[cough]0 SpA Slowpoke Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Shellder: 46-55 (14.1 - 16.9%) -- possible 6HKO[/cough]
VS THE TIMBA!
0 Atk Shellder Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Timburr: 110-130 (21.8 - 25.7%) -- approx. 0.5% chance to 3HKO after burn damage (recovery from Drain Punch makes this a 4HKO)
252+ Atk Guts Timburr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Shellder: 127-151 (39.1 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
VS GOD
0 Atk Shellder Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Water: 100-120 (22.5 - 27%) -- approx. 15.6% chance to 4HKO
8+ SpA Splash Plate Arceus-Water Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Shellder: 81-96 (25 - 29.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
VS THE SEED
0 Atk Shellder Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferroseed: 55-70 (14.4 - 18.4%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Ferroseed Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Shellder: 54-66 (16.6 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO
VS THE CORPH
0 Atk Shellder Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 76 Def Corphish: 85-105 (22.6 - 27.9%) -- approx. 64.8% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Corphish Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Shellder: 99-117 (30.5 - 36.1%) -- 47.8% chance to 3HKO
VS THE OGRE
0 Atk Shellder Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyogre: 125-150 (36.5 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Kyogre Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Shellder: 282-334 (87 - 103%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
VS THE ALIEN
0 Atk Shellder Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Elgyem: 175-210 (41.2 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
228+ SpA Analytic Elgyem Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Shellder: 150-177 (46.2 - 54.6%) -- 56.6% chance to 2HKO
VS THE DOS
0 Atk Shellder Razor Shell + Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cranidos: 290-342 (70.8 - 83.6%)
252+ Atk Sheer Force Cranidos Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Shellder: 160-189 (49.3 - 58.3%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO (assuming Sash or all-out Adamant Scarf)
Yeah that's a lot of the high viability ranked 'mons and a few niches that stop Shellder as much as needed and prove how it isn't viable. The only set that anyone would run happily would be a Shell Smash one as that ways you can at least do something to the higher ranked 'mons!
Also, if you want to prove its viability, might as well just present a set that's actually good vs. the other higher ranked ones (I calc'd Staravia to them and the tanks to prove my point) and not rant vs. others in how Shellder stops x 'mon with y set (especially when the y set isn't even that good).
I stayed in on crani because I had Solarbeam.
also, I'm using Blast Burn, as Zardy is just supposed to get rid of a lead or two.
anyone get the joke I made about drilbur?
The turn wasted recharging can allow your opponent to set up on you and sweep. Hyper Beam and variants are only any good in Gen 1.
Pikachuun
the entire waruda machine
And 1v1, since it's hard for your opponent to live it and they only have 1 Pokemon.
Pikachuun
the entire waruda machine
I've personally run Rufflet due to its amount of power with Hustle [You OHKO PDef Clefable, this is without band or LO
+ Has a LOT of power behind it with Hustle. Just slap on a Choice Band and pray you don't miss.
+ Can be a decent pivot with access to U-turn, and pretty alright 140/100/100 bulk.
+ It has 2 options for boosting, both of which boost its attack. Bulk Up gives you more Physical bulk and makes Staravia cry in a corner, while Hone Claws nullifies Hustle's accuracy drop [Except when fighting Unaware because I hate unaware]
= An okay speed tier of 120. Not that great, but it allows it to outspeed quite a few defensive walls. Gets Tailwind to bypass this for a few turns.
- No way to hit Steels if running Hustle, unless you take Shadow Claw or Rock Smash as one of your moves. If you do this I'll facepalm.
+ Intimidate. This alone along with decent 110/100/80 bulk makes it a good pivot. The special side's a bit shaky, so don't be switching this into something specially-oriented unless you know you can take an attack from it.
+ Reckless Double Edges and Brave Birds hurt, especially when boosted by Choice Band or Life Orb. However, Staravia will be hurting as well unless you run Roost as your 4th move [On a choice band set this is what Talonflame does on occasion]
+ It's fast. 160 Speed tier is quite fast, allowing it to outspeed Scarf Yogurts. Still needs a scarf for certain threats like Abra, tho.
= Has a niche in Scarf Endeavor.
- No Boosting moves of any sort limits its sweeping potential a slight amount.
---- Not Murica Burd's son
+ Reckless Double Edges and Brave Birds hurt, especially when boosted by Choice Band or Life Orb. However, Staravia will be hurting as well unless you run Roost as your 4th move [On a choice band set this is what Talonflame does on occasion]
+ It's fast. 160 Speed tier is quite fast, allowing it to outspeed Scarf Yogurts. Still needs a scarf for certain threats like Abra, tho.
= Has a niche in Scarf Endeavor.
- No Boosting moves of any sort limits its sweeping potential a slight amount.
Get access to Defog, which can be crucial to your team.
Are weak to Stealth Rocks.
Get access to reliable Recovery with Roost.
Have essentially no way to get past Honedge outside of Shadow Claw, which is kinda bad.
Are weak to Stealth Rocks.
Get access to reliable Recovery with Roost.
Have essentially no way to get past Honedge outside of Shadow Claw, which is kinda bad.
To be quite honest, I have no preference, and would actually love to test out Staravia on my team to see if it's a better replacement. These are just my opinions, and yes I have seen both of them work in the past.
My personal preferences are:
Defensive: Staravia
The access to intimidate is too good, especially on a Pokemon with a little bit of natural bulk anyways. Throw in access to defog and you get a great defensive pokemon.
Scarf: Staravia
Brave Bird and Double Edge are incredibly powerful with a scarf, and while it's not as strong as Rufflet, it's faster and doesn't miss (if you miss a revenge kill, it could lose you a match.)
Band: Rufflet
Basically, hustle is incredibly powerful and with a band it's more-so.
Setup: Rufflet
Hone claws is really good, and Staravia doesn't get any setup anyways.
Defensive: Staravia
The access to intimidate is too good, especially on a Pokemon with a little bit of natural bulk anyways. Throw in access to defog and you get a great defensive pokemon.
Scarf: Staravia
Brave Bird and Double Edge are incredibly powerful with a scarf, and while it's not as strong as Rufflet, it's faster and doesn't miss (if you miss a revenge kill, it could lose you a match.)
Band: Rufflet
Basically, hustle is incredibly powerful and with a band it's more-so.
Setup: Rufflet
Hone claws is really good, and Staravia doesn't get any setup anyways.
I feel like they have different roles.
Rufflet is better as a wall killer and has much better chances at breaking The Great Wall(s)
Staravia is definitely better against offense having a better speed tier and particularly better against bulky offense capable of outspeeding rufflet(basically a lot of viable offensive mons)
Rufflet is better as a wall killer and has much better chances at breaking The Great Wall(s)
Staravia is definitely better against offense having a better speed tier and particularly better against bulky offense capable of outspeeding rufflet(basically a lot of viable offensive mons)
Lets hope I do this correctly (Im new to forums & stuff)
So, anyway I want to show a few calcs I made.
+6 252+ Atk Choice Band Inkay Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spritzee: 420-495 (116.6 - 137.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO If you can BP +6 ATK onto Inkay it destroys Spritzee.
+6 252+ Atk Choice Band Inkay Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spritzee through Reflect: 210-247 (58.3 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
You can 2HKO through Reflect, if you manage to not take a Moonblast to the face x.x
252+ Atk Life Orb Pawniard Iron Head vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Inkay: 133-157 (53.2 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Pawniard Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Inkay: 161-191 (64.4 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Pawniard Brick Break vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Inkay: 83-99 (33.2 - 39.6%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Pawniard Pursuit vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Inkay: 66-79 (26.4 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Inkay can take a few hits from Pawniard. I dont know what Pawniard runs, so I used an LC moveset :P
196+ Atk Hustle Darumaka Rock Slide vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Inkay: 159-188 (63.6 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Inkay is OHKO'd by everything else in Darumaka's LC moveset
Yes, I messed around with the calc and changed the base stats so these would be pretty accurate. So I guess what I'm trying to say is BAN INKAY
EDIT: I used banned Pokemon to show how OP Inkay is.
So, anyway I want to show a few calcs I made.
+6 252+ Atk Choice Band Inkay Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spritzee: 420-495 (116.6 - 137.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO If you can BP +6 ATK onto Inkay it destroys Spritzee.
+6 252+ Atk Choice Band Inkay Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spritzee through Reflect: 210-247 (58.3 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
You can 2HKO through Reflect, if you manage to not take a Moonblast to the face x.x
252+ Atk Life Orb Pawniard Iron Head vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Inkay: 133-157 (53.2 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Pawniard Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Inkay: 161-191 (64.4 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Pawniard Brick Break vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Inkay: 83-99 (33.2 - 39.6%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Pawniard Pursuit vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Inkay: 66-79 (26.4 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Inkay can take a few hits from Pawniard. I dont know what Pawniard runs, so I used an LC moveset :P
196+ Atk Hustle Darumaka Rock Slide vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Inkay: 159-188 (63.6 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Inkay is OHKO'd by everything else in Darumaka's LC moveset
Yes, I messed around with the calc and changed the base stats so these would be pretty accurate. So I guess what I'm trying to say is BAN INKAY
EDIT: I used banned Pokemon to show how OP Inkay is.