XY UU Viability Ranking Thread V2

[Mahmudkipz]

Entei definitely isn't the best physical Fire type out there as long as Victini is in the tier. Sacred Fire while having a 50% burn chance and sporting decent power, has low PP which makes it hard to spam especially since its no.1 counter, Suicune has Pressure to lessen its PP and Rest to cure off burns. As you have mentioned, its subpar coverage means it is walled by bulky Water types incessantly, and it loses your momentum if you can't predict their switch in and double acordingly due to Entei's lack of a momentum move. Sacred Fire and Extreme Speed are nice perks which sounds perfect in theory due to the former weakening a check through burns early game and the latter can be used to clean up late game, but Entei's weakness to rocks plus its tendency to be forced out by Water types means usually it doesn't stay around for late game. Last but not least due to its lack of setup moves (Howl lol) and weakness to rocks to effectively hold LO, it is very reliant on Choice Band for damage and that can be capitalized by a few setup mons such as Chandelure and Lucario.

Just keep Entei at B+

 

[Fluze3]

Entei definitely isn't the best physical Fire type out there as long as Victini is in the tier. Sacred Fire while having a 50% burn chance and sporting decent power, has low PP which makes it hard to spam especially since its no.1 counter, Suicune has Pressure to lessen its PP and Rest to cure off burns. As you have mentioned, its subpar coverage means it is walled by bulky Water types incessantly, and it loses your momentum if you can't predict their switch in and double acordingly due to Entei's lack of a momentum move. Sacred Fire and Extreme Speed are nice perks which sounds perfect in theory due to the former weakening a check through burns early game and the latter can be used to clean up late game, but Entei's weakness to rocks plus its tendency to be forced out by Water types means usually it doesn't stay around for late game. Last but not least due to its lack of setup moves (Howl lol) and weakness to rocks to effectively hold LO, it is very reliant on Choice Band for damage and that can be capitalized by a few setup mons such as Chandelure and Lucario.

Just keep Entei at B+

Completely forgot about Victini (for some reason). Thanks for that.

 

[dingbat]

Victini is actually about to get banned lol

Anyways, I could see both Darmanitan and Entei going up once Tini leaves due to the eased competition in the Fire-type wallbreaking compartment, however it still hurts that both of them cannot break bulky waters like Tini could do to a solid extent (unless you run max spA Solarbeam Entei lol). Regarding Entei, A rank is going a little far, but A- seems like a fair placement.

Also, any opinions about re-ranking Xatu at C rank? I've been seeing the defensive Rocky Helmet set run effectively (especially by DMT), and it's definitely the one thing Espeon does not outclass Xatu with.

 

[Schpoonman]

Whoa whoa what? Since when has Victini been up for suspect?

 

[UU ALL DAY]

It could be the fact that Specially Defensive Mew can beat the Special Victini Set, Slowbro can handle the scarf set (regen can slightly mitigate the damage from Bolt Strike). Also, the fact that Quagsire and Vap dropped (two mons that are prone to Ebeltini, Thunderbolt/Energy Ball/Thunder/Grass Knot), so it makes bulky waters not as viable.

But people aren't using things like Houndoom which is a great offensive check to Tini, or Banded Lax, or Defensive Arcanine.

*shrugs*

I hope it stays!

 

[Sleepless]

It could be ...

I think it also might do with Togekiss dropping and Slowbro and Mew leaving, all making Hydreigon (aspecially Scarf), one of Tini's best offensive answers, much less viable. In turn, this makes Victini much more of a threat.

 

[Machi]

Whoa whoa what? Since when has Victini been up for suspect?

Not suspect just popularity, it is becoming popular in OU for checking fairy/fighting.

 

[DiscoDucky]

I really have no time so I'll make this nom quick. Smeargle to A-. Even with the cloud of controversy/confusion around the brokenness of Smeargle, Smeargle is still a very good support Pokemon, particularly in passing stats. Though some may argue that having access to every single move in the game bar Chatter is an irrelevant point, it's still noteworthy that Smeargle's support versatility is huge, albeit ephemeral. If you roll through DP and BW's analysis of Smeargle, you can see that his sets (minus some choice VGC ones) are endless, from FEARgle to Lv. 1 Trick RoomGle to SmashGle to something old school like Choice Scarf Smeargle. The possibilities are endless. Even though we generally accept PassGle as the most donminant form of Smeargle, the surprise factor it has behind pretty much every single one of its sets makes them even more effective.

(granted i'm bad and i've managed to make Lvl. 1 Trick RoomGle work exactly 9 out of 34 times combined in OU and UU, but when it did work, it took out at least 3 members per team).

 

[President Shinra]

Lead hazard Smeargle is also pretty cool, and can wreck easily sleep and set up Web and Rocks on many other things, which is a plus.

 

[UU ALL DAY]

Not suspect just popularity, it is becoming popular in OU for checking fairy/fighting.

Isn't that 3 months from now?

 

[DiscoDucky]

Isn't that 3 months from now?

Not to also mention the first month has statistically low significance in the overall outcome?

 

[Fluze3]

Sableye for A -> A+

Sableye is arguably the best phyiscal wall in the meta that isn't water typing. Boasting only ONE weakness, three immunities, and a whole lot of resistances, it's able to come in safely against the common fighting types such as Infernape and Lucario. With a +1 Wil-O-Wisp, it's able to cripple any physical sweeper or wall for the rest of the match. It's also the best stallbreaker, with a prankster taunt, and access to Recover. It also has decent support moves such as Foul Play, Knock Off and Sucker Punch, which can make it a stable win condition. It can also run a Specially Defensive or Physically defensive persona, and with WoW, it becomes an amazing mixed wall when running specially defensive. People need to run something like Alakazam with Dazzling Gleam in order to counter it; without anything to absorb Burns, something is going to be crippled.

However, it doesn't have a supreme amount of bulk; therefore, many of the tier's best wallbreakers (hydreigon, mega ampharos, etc.) are able to pummel it with their STAB moves. Other prankster taunt users such as Whimsicott and Tornadus are able to outspeed and Taunt it, forcing it to switch. But, it's flaws are beaten by their strengths; because you can't wall EVERYTHING.

tl;dr:
Pros:

• amazing typing
• walls almost any physical attacker with Heracross gone
• prankster taunts, recover and WoW = op
• great support moves such as Knock Off, Foul Play and Sucker Punch

Cons:

• not too much bulk; can be beaten by wallbreakers (special)
• other prankster taunters can outspeed
• alakazam with dazzling gleam wants its blood

Here's the set I recommend using:

Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD -or- 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Bold/Impish/Calm/Careful Nature
- Wil-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Taunt
- Foul Play / Knock Off / Sucker Punch

*recommended you use -spA nature when using Knock Off to boost it.

 

[Bouff]

I don't have too much of an opinion on Sableye moving up; while it can be played around fairly easily, the amount of Fairies used has decreased due to Heracross leaving and Suicune growing more popular, and offense doesn't really like to switch into it barring GutsChamp.

One thing I'd like to see moving up is Kyurem. While the SubRoost set is kinda....bad, the Specs set is actually very underrated in the current metagame. It has a pretty distinct niche in being one of the Dragon-types in the current metagame that doesn't get completely raped by Togekiss, has the potential to beat the likes of other Fairies such as Granbull and non spdef Aroma. Not only this, but it has near perfect coverage in the metagame with Ice + Ground covering everything, and Specs Draco coming off a base 130 SpA is pretty cool as well. It's not really a slouch defensively, either, as 125 / 90 / 90 is pretty good for an offensive mon; the only thing really holding back Kyu is its speed tier and its SR weakness, which can both be slightly mitigated. I really think at this stage it should be B+.

 

[Sage]

I'm game for Bouff's suggestion. Another set he forgot to mention is mixed LO with outrage, it dents stuff like Blissey that assume you are full special. Roost can be run too, but normally you don't get an open slot for it. Kyurem is cool, even if a little hard to build with thanks to its god awful defensive synergy. However he gets cool resists like Water and Electric, so there is definitely room for him in UU.

 

[UU ALL DAY]

I don't have too much of an opinion on Sableye moving up; while it can be played around fairly easily, the amount of Fairies used has decreased due to Heracross leaving and Suicune growing more popular, and offense doesn't really like to switch into it barring GutsChamp.

One thing I'd like to see moving up is Kyurem. While the SubRoost set is kinda....bad, the Specs set is actually very underrated in the current metagame. It has a pretty distinct niche in being one of the Dragon-types in the current metagame that doesn't get completely raped by Togekiss, has the potential to beat the likes of other Fairies such as Granbull and non spdef Aroma. Not only this, but it has near perfect coverage in the metagame with Ice + Ground covering everything, and Specs Draco coming off a base 130 SpA is pretty cool as well. It's not really a slouch defensively, either, as 125 / 90 / 90 is pretty good for an offensive mon; the only thing really holding back Kyu is its speed tier and its SR weakness, which can both be slightly mitigated. I really think at this stage it should be B+.

Wouldn't say SubRoost is bad...it stalls out a lot of things, such as Vaperon that doesn't carry roar, and other random stuff like Raikou and Jolteon.

But yeah, I think Kyurem is super underrated. I mean, it can carry Iron Head to take care of Florges, then run STAB Ice Beam to Shrek things like Hippo.

*shrugs*

 

[KM]

Normally I'd be hesitant to move things around when we're mid-rises, and while I absolutely believe that kyurem should be at least B+, I think that the lack of victini in the tier will actually positively affect it to the point where it might actually be higher. I am going to move it to B+ right now, though, and if you want to discuss more about that feel free to =)

Re: SABLEYE, eh. Fire types were all over the place, aromatisse still went strong, and it kind of got trashed by the new "drops" of Togekiss, Diancie, and moonblast jirachi. Also the relative popularity of acid spray tentacruel made it less good as a spinblocker. A is fine for now.

EDIT: Removed Victini, Smeargle, and Togekiss from the Viability rankings.

I don't think this shift is large enough to warrant us five re-doing all the ranks, so it's up to you guys to tweak stuff so it's more accurate. Here are some possible shifts to discuss, or come up with your own.

JIRACHI --> S. Without Victini as a prime offensive counter, Jirachi got a whole lot better. It is widely versatile and very threatening.

GRASS TYPES --> HIGHER THAN THEY ARE NOW. Again, the lack of Togekiss and Victini hugely effected the viability of stuff like Shaymin and Chesnaught.

ALOMOMOLA AND SWAMPERT --> DOWN. Now that Victini's out of the tier, the predict focus on strong fighting-types like Lucario, Machamp, and Mienshao may prove to be too much for these to handle.

MACHAMP --> A- or higher. Lost two huge checks in Togekiss and Victini and can now more easily barrel through the world. #gutsy

GOODRA--> B+ or higher. lack of togekiss and victini and popularity of grass types might be what goodra needs to become relevant again.

discuss away!

 

[dingbat]

Not suspect just popularity, it is becoming popular in OU for checking fairy/fighting.

No, I literally mean it has a strong chance of getting banned and retested.

Regarding, physically defensive Sableye is vastly inferior to specially defensive Sableye, since Will-o-Wisp suffices most of the time in weakening opponents' physical attacks anyways. By sacrificing the Special Defense EVs on Sableye, things like (non-LO/specs) Dreigon, Blastoise, and +1 Suicune can now 2hko Sableye, and not being able to survive a Draco Meteor from non-specs Dreigon is also not a pretty thing lol. Also, bear in mind that Sableye was never meant to be a wall, espe; it was meant to be a stallbreaker that annoys the living shit out of a great portion of this tier. Anyways, Sableye certainly has the potential to move up to A+ rank, but I'm not too certain about that right now.

And right when I type this, Tini + Kiss gets banned

 

[Fluze3]

Let's start more discussion, then.

Entei for B+ -> A-/A

Entei is arguably the best physical fire type in the tier right now. Its 115 / 95 / 100 offensive stats means that it is better than other fire types when comparing stats (such as Arcanine) and its got decent bulk to take a hit or two. It's main selling point is Sacred Fire -- a base 100 move with a 50% chance to burn is nothing to laugh about, considering that burns can completely make or break a game. It's also got access to ExtremeSpeed, which is always helpful in picking off threats.

The only thing REALLY letting it down is its coverage moves (only main ones are Iron Head and Stone Edge), but they still provide decent coverage. It still gets walled by Bulky Water types such as Jellicent and Blastoise because it can't hit them super effectively, unlike Arcanine, who gets Wild Charge. If you don't have a bulky water to take hits, it's very hard to wall Entei. It really began to shine after Slowbro left.

tldr: In summary, Entei is really underrated and it has the power and speed to be in the higher rank. The only thing that lets it down is its typing (horrid defensively, okay offensively) and its coverage, which is sub-par.

Entei @ Life Orb / Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Iron Head
- Stone Edge
- ExtremeSpeed

Tini's gone. Time to celebrate yet?

 

[Meru]

Now that Victini is banned, Meloetta should definitely go up, as it not only hated facing Victini, but also had competition with Victini for the role of a Psychic-type. I know Kitten already agrees with me, but now I think it's officially time to promote it. Fighting-types, other Psychic-types, and Nidos are going to be everywhere, and Melo loves to assrape those. I actually tried Offensive CM on Galv Webs to alleviate Melo's horrible weakness to faster U-turns and it completely shreked common Melo checks like Jirachi, Krook, and Darm. My opponent did have a Forry that was able to spin on that since it was CM/Psyshock/Shadow Ball/Hyper Voice but then Forry was completely wallbroken, and couldn't check my Cobalion. Offensive CM also helped webs deal with one of its biggest foes in Scarf Hydreigon, who Meloetta laughs at despite being a Psychic-type

252 SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Meloetta: 138-164 (40.3 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Dark Pulse vs. +1 4 HP / 0 SpD Meloetta: 160-190 (46.7 - 55.5%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Meloetta Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon: 309-367 (95 - 112.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Meloetta Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 380-448 (114.8 - 135.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Meloetta Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Jirachi: 338-398 (99.1 - 116.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Meloetta Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Forretress: 255-300 (72 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Meloetta Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 159-187 (52.3 - 61.5%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Meloetta Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 165-196 (40.8 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Meloetta Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 458-539 (64.1 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I guess the best counter to that set is Umbreon? All of these calcs are Timid too... definitely something to be watching out for. And it also helps my argument that right now Meloetta is literally the best Pokemon in RU.

 

[fdubwilli]

I nominate Darmanitan for B+ since tini is gone, it's not completely outclassed as a physical fire type, and still hits just as hard as tini did.

Hide

252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 156-185 (43 - 51.1%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 172-203 (47.5 - 56%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO

Although it's not nearly as versatile, I can see Darm filling the role of the being the physical nuke that Banded Tini once was

 

[Kyuzeth]

Hydreigon (A+) -> S | I definitely think Hydreigon can move back to its old rank again with the departure of Togekiss. That thing walled the fuck out of the poor hydra, but with the bastard gone, Hydreigon has vastly improved once again, being able to bomb the battlefield with its high-power moves coming off 125 Special Attack. Its fantastic coverage still allows it to hit a seriously wide array of targets for supereffective damage and in conjunction with 105 Attack, Hydreigon can perform a devastating mixed attacking set. Its 92/90/90 bulk isn't all that bad for an offensive Pokémon and its typing gives it the capability to switch in on resisted Water-, Fire-, Grass-, Electric-, Dark- and Ghost-type moves, while being immune to Psychic and Ground, the latter courtesy of Levitate.
It's still plagued by its average 98 Speed which, while good, isn't quite great. Hydreigon also has nasty weaknesses to Fighting, Bug, Dragon, Ice and a double one to Fairy, on top of being completely walled by most Fairy-types. That aside, Hydreigon does have a vast amount of pros that make up for its flaws and continues to once again be a highly dominant force in UU. Hydreigon should rise back to S.

 

[Sage]

OK gonna fire off some noms, both going up and going down :D

Going Down
Raikou A- to B/B+: Still a cool mon, but togekiss was a big reason it was A- in the first place. Sub CM is still very threatening, and specs hurts, but not a dominating force in the meta right now.

Swampert A+ to A-: He was an awesome tini switch in even with energy ball being a thing since he was immune to the coverage that usually shrekt bulky waters. He still walls Mega Aero to hell and back, and has rocks and roar along with just being a good general tank, so i think A- is fine.

Alomomola: A- to B+: It's still cool, just not as cool. it fits with Aromatisse because i think its similar how aromatisse was mainly used for heracross, who left ad aromatisse ended up in B+, this is very similar with victini getting the boot.

Going Up
Jirachi: A+ to S: it lost victini, who hurt it in teambuilding and on the battlefield, since stacking psychics is usually a no go. Scarf Rachi is better without tini, and sub toxic still fucks over walls, while CM is good for a surprise sweeper. S rank for sure, has like 6 sets and all areviable, the epitome of versatility.

I've wanted the next two for a longgg time Mahmudkipz
Mega Aerodactyl: A+ to S: Ok so I've fought for this before, and that was kinda just me being a kek, but now i see legitimate reason for this. He checks Lucario incredibly well, only losing to bullet punch SD. Luke is undoubtedly number one threat in the tier with the loss of tini imo. Point Number 2, bulky waters are falling and we will see a drop in alomomola and swampert usage which is good for our rocky fren. Point 3, grass types are on the up who mega aero does well vs most specsmin and coming in on sleep vs rose. He beats chesnaught, offensive rose, and sub seed min which is awesome. Finally he still has the bajillion coverage moves and support utility to be fit on every single playstyle except full stall which is still kinda dead, semi stall is king of defensive rn. It also has great matchup vs froslass, since icy wind cant 2hko and ice beam means dead lass with no spikes, and you live one iirc. King of versatility bar like rachi, (who is S rn)

Mega Ampharos A+ to S: Ik it lost tini and toge to check, but it just deserves it. It fits on any kinda team except full offense, has a godly slow volt switch, smacks every ground in the tier except SpD Hippo for over 50% with dragon pulse, and can run bulky resttalk sets to be the #1 answer to honchkrow among other things, and it just grabs so much momentum every time in enters the field. It's also hella hard to one shot it. But both the aforementioned too do so well vs the tiers top threats atm. Please kitten fren, see my appeal. Slow volt switches amazing, it just checks everything.

Darmanitan B to B+/A-: No it's not Victini, but it somewhat fills the void. It was never bad, just why use it over victini, so now it has relevance again.

Lucario S to God Tier: Imo broken rn, it lost one of its best checks, it has coverage for like everything on it SD set, with earthqwuake, bullet punch, iron tail, and ice punch. Also Nasty Ploy wrecks too, so yeah. God of UU atm.

 

[Giometry]

Alomomola A- ==> A- People keep saying that with tini gone it lost some utility but I would like to ask how this is true when bolt strike is a thing that exists, Big Luvdisc never countered Tini just as how Slowbro didn't.
Swampert A+ ==> A Although it lost some utility with Tini being gone it was kinda screwed by energy ball/grass knot even when Tini was there, if anything the inevitable rise of the fire types that were outclassed by Tini will help its utility as, unlike tini, the other fires have no way around Swampert or Big Luvdisc.

Jirachi A+ ==> S: With a huge check to it gone in Tini, Rachi is now one of the titans of the meta alongside the likes of Lucario and Hydreigon. It is immensely versatile and checks so many things in the meta. It is a major contributor in every match it is in and is never dead weight, IMO this is long overdue.
Entei B+ ==> A: With Tini gone it has lost its major competition as a physically powerful fire type, Its Band set is no longer outclassed and its other sets are still just as good as before.

Darmanitan and Arcanine ==> A- These two also really enjoy the little fire pixie gone and are great against the rising Grasses as well as Jirachi.

Other things I support
Hydreigon ==> S
Mega Aerodactyl ==> S
Raikou ==> B+
Machamp ==> A-

 

[Chronobreak]

Kinda unrelated, but I nominate Slurpuff for A-/A. Slurpuff is a monstrous sweeper that has 1-2 switchins in the tier, and outspeeds almost everything once Unburden is activated. However, it is really frail and can't take a hit at all, meaning it needs to get in safely.


Edit:100th post!!!!!!

 

[President Shinra]

OK gonna fire off some noms, both going up and going down :D

Going Down
Raikou A- to B/B+: Still a cool mon, but togekiss was a big reason it was A- in the first place. Sub CM is still very threatening, and specs hurts, but not a dominating force in the meta right now.

Swampert A+ to A-: He was an awesome tini switch in even with energy ball being a thing since he was immune to the coverage that usually shrekt bulky waters. He still walls Mega Aero to hell and back, and has rocks and roar along with just being a good general tank, so i think A- is fine.

Alomomola: A- to B+: It's still cool, just not as cool. it fits with Aromatisse because i think its similar how aromatisse was mainly used for heracross, who left ad aromatisse ended up in B+, this is very similar with victini getting the boot.

I'd honestly still say A Rank for pert, because with people wanting to replace Tini with stuff like Darmanitan and Entei it can still do its job, and can reliably set up Rocks in most situations. I'd still say A. Other ones I definitely agree with.

Going Up
Jirachi: A+ to S: it lost victini, who hurt it in teambuilding and on the battlefield, since stacking psychics is usually a no go. Scarf Rachi is better without tini, and sub toxic still fucks over walls, while CM is good for a surprise sweeper. S rank for sure, has like 6 sets and all areviable, the epitome of versatility.

I've wanted the next two for a longgg time Mahmudkipz
Mega Aerodactyl: A+ to S: Ok so I've fought for this before, and that was kinda just me being a kek, but now i see legitimate reason for this. He checks Lucario incredibly well, only losing to bullet punch SD. Luke is undoubtedly number one threat in the tier with the loss of tini imo. Point Number 2, bulky waters are falling and we will see a drop in alomomola and swampert usage which is good for our rocky fren. Point 3, grass types are on the up who mega aero does well vs most specsmin and coming in on sleep vs rose. He beats chesnaught, offensive rose, and sub seed min which is awesome. Finally he still has the bajillion coverage moves and support utility to be fit on every single playstyle except full stall which is still kinda dead, semi stall is king of defensive rn. It also has great matchup vs froslass, since icy wind cant 2hko and ice beam means dead lass with no spikes, and you live one iirc. King of versatility bar like rachi, (who is S rn)

I've fought for both of these two, and now I think it is their time to move up.

Mega Ampharos A+ to S: Ik it lost tini and toge to check, but it just deserves it. It fits on any kinda team except full offense, has a godly slow volt switch, smacks every ground in the tier except SpD Hippo for over 50% with dragon pulse, and can run bulky resttalk sets to be the #1 answer to honchkrow among other things, and it just grabs so much momentum every time in enters the field. It's also hella hard to one shot it. But both the aforementioned too do so well vs the tiers top threats atm. Please kitten fren, see my appeal. Slow volt switches amazing, it just checks everything.

This, I believe, is not correct. I do not think it improved with the new bannings, and if anything it got worse. With Lucario running EQ, Hydreigon having more leeway to spam Draco, Dugtrio being seen more and more, the Nidos becoming better, and more and more Fire-types with ways around its resistances, I can't really see how it got any better, or at least better to the point that it deserves S. And, as you said, it lost two of its main checks.