The CAP Dark Horse Competition -- September Thread

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HeaLnDeaL

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Alright, here's my Regice replays. Coming into the room today, I think there was a lot of undeserved hate for Regice. Really, Regice does what you expect it to do, just don't expect too much more and you'll be fine. Regice CAN take 2 or so super effective special hits. Regice CAN do damage against foes weak to ice or pitifully weak to electric. Regice might nab some charge beam boosts, but this goes into the risky territory. Essentially with Regice you have to play with a target-to-kill mentality, almost in the way Gothitelle plays in the basic sense (of course, the specifics on what to come in on, etc, varies between the two mons). Cylclohm should be your biggest target, since you can freely switch in and risk KOing right away. Landorus is another, just be wary of Super Power. And though the number of things Regice can flat out counter might be limited, there is a great deal of switch wiggle room that Regice provides in situations where you just need to bide some time. And by no means is 100 def bad, it's just that it doesn't want to take any super effective physical hits on the switch, which does limit its potential. However, it's something that can be forgiven when you know how to take advantage of Regice's strengths.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-162659881 Here we see a few things; for starters, my Regice misses a charge beam, but since the opposing Politoed was a renegade and Belly Drummed, I would have had to switch out the next turn anyway. Later in the match, Regice comes in to take a Beartic aqua jet, and ends up eating a Low Kick during the next turn. However, the recoil from the Beartic's Life Orb was enough to KO him in the process, creating a 1-for-1 KO trade off. Overall, the opponents team was so far off from a typical CAP team that not a whole lot of information could be gathered, but it did show Regice's physical limitations.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-162662344This is where things start to get interesting. Regice is able to take multiple scalds from a Manaphy AFTER it had set up tail glow. After the first charge beam boost, the opponent got fed up and just rage quite since his odds were very bleak at that point. Regice being able to tank massively powerful special moves? Who knew. However, this match does show the importance of softening up the opposing team before going in to Regice. A full team usually has enough switches left to navigate around damage, but Regice can start to shine once the opponent loses some options (I personally think it's not entirely about just losing checks/counters, but also options in general, since Regice's attacks do add up if the opponent has to share the damage between only 3 or 4 team members as opposed to 6).

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-162665714Here we see a good example of Regice being able to completely focus in on a Cyclohm to the point of basically leaving it useless in the opponent's hands throughout the match. In the process, it also became necessary to deal some damage to Aurumoth. While charge beam did pitiful damage, frost breath was pretty passable, and Regice was within capacity to KO the moth but I chose to switch out in because I wanted Regice to have enough HP to finish off Cyclohm later. And I gotta say, Regice tanked those Auru focus blasts pretty well.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-162675593 (versus gday)This one is easily the closest match I had today with Regice. Here we see AV Regice taking just over 40% from a technician + life orb Ancient Power from Strategem. Overall, you'll see that Regice was played very conservatively, and towards the end I was not opposed to using Regice and a means to get some life orb recoil going on Strategem. There's no denying that Regice had a lot of support/help in the match, but the pieces of the team fit together and it worked out in a very narrow victory.

So, overall I think Regice has some undeniable merits. The premier special wall of the tier, Chansey, is bulkier and has access to recovery. However, Regice has some usable Sp. Atk and this mix of defense with nice offensive coverage I think helps give Regice a decent niche in the meta, even if it is small. It's typing is actually pretty decent in CAP, as it threatens some mons and keeps them at bay. A potential downside is that Regice is not a mon to just stay in and wrack up damage, and it will need to switch out. As a result, I think hazard removal is a must for the Ice Titan, otherwise you won't be getting the full utility of it's bulk. Regice may not be a Mega Heracross, but it's definitely not useless.

Tagging Kingriolu22 and Tadasuke to review the replays to see if they qualify for points, since it's unfair for me to review my own matches.

Edit: Here's a quick announcement, but thanks to Fluze3, this thread now has some cool art in the OP!
 
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OK, well, my basic summary of mew is that she gets beat by good things, and does well against fidgit and Tomo leads, which is ok. I mostly ran a Banded set for the lolz, but it actually worked ok. it's late for me currently, so forgive me for being brief here.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-162887235

This game was super brief, mostly because the guy ragequit after I got Caw running. This is the only battle that I recorded using my support mew, but LS makes mew an incredibly good sponger of some of the bigger special threats in CAP

Author: [url]http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-162962557[/URL]

So, this is a placeholder game. The one I won was lost to the bowels of the replay editor. Basically, not much happened, I just got a lucky dodge ona toxic, got a +2\+2 Xzard and he gave me the win. Mew got a bit of damage in, nothing special. The game we just had shows how hax can ruin a game. Seriously, the hax both for an against both of us was crazy.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-162946212

Game that showed the fact that banded Mew can be an OK lead against stuff in Cap, especially anyone who plays fidgit. Mew didn't do much else, it was over-all a fairly stompy game.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-162955974

A much less one-sided version of my third game, this kid actually made some smart plays. Of course, by the end we just had a stall war because all I had left where my walls and he had a stally Nect, but it was fun nonetheless. Mew really showed that it's quite strong defensively, while does very little offensively. Pretty much illustrated why the tankier Screens set was actually the better of the 2 I made.

Now, I'm ready for a weekend of fun stuff, and for some Noivern sillyness!
 

Amoonguss

Strengths: Decent bulk, Regenerator, does not use up mega slot and thus can use Black Sludge, 100% accurate Spore, can reset stats with Clear Smog, access to Foul Play

Weaknesses: More vulnerable to Knock Off and Trick, no Thick Fat means that Fire- and Ice-types like Mollux and Syclant can beat it

Amoonguss could be a potent alternative to Mega Venusaur if a team wants to use another mega like Charizard X or Scizor, and it could be of use in stall or balanced teams as a bulky pivot.
 

jas61292

used substitute
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Mew is amazing. That's all there is to it. Top stallbreaker in the game, in my opinion.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-162995370

In this first battle, Mew completely shuts down a Vaporeon, and then takes down a Gothitelle that was trying to trap or cripple it. Neither one could really do anything in return, and it paved the way for my other Pokemon to break through.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-162996646

This battle was exceptionally close, and was just a great battle overall. Here, Mew got to show exactly how to dismantle a common defensive set. Tomohawk can do nothing to it but Air Slash, which is fairly weak, while mew can whittle away at it with WoW and Knock Off. Being Taunted, Tomo cannot outstall Mew, and even if it had started with far more health, and could somehow survive, or even if it had a sub to block the burn, Taunt would let mew force it to struggle far earlier than it otherwise would.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-163000126

Once again, Mew shows how helpless it can make guys like Tomo feel, this time by Taunting it as it subs, and then switching to Rotom who takes out the sub with Volt Switch, allowing Mew to hit with its other status. It didn't last as long in this battle, but it was there long enough to get the job done.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-163003581

Finally, a battle vs HeaL, where Mew shows off its wall stopping powers against a Cyclohm. The hax in this game was kind of incredible, and if HeaL didn't forfeit at the end, he probably would have won (crit for me might have won it, but otherwise it would go his way), but otherwise it was well played.
 
I'm nominating Magnezone to be a Dark Horse competitor.
Magnezone is an amazing Pokemon to pair with Mega Pinsir as Magnezone can take out Skarmory who otherwise completely walls him. While gothitelle can do this as well, Magnezone has much higher spatk, can double as a flyspam counter, better phys bulk, has access to STAB Volt-Switch and great typing.

Overall Magnezone can be a great scout with the scarf set and can help both landorus I and Pinsir a lot.
 

HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
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Alright, today's DHC candidate is Noivern. He really has quite great speed, but as we all should know his mediocre Sp Attack stat holds him back. However, I think his main merits in CAP include advantages against Tomohawk, Cyclohm, and Aurumoth and high enough to speed to at least hit almost everything else bar Strategem. And while Volkraken may be a more powerful Infiltrator user, Noivern's different set of coverage does give him different options.

And for tomorrow, our last DHC candidate of the month will be Breloom. I looked at the last two nominations, Amoongus and Magnezone, and the more I thought about the flaws and advantages of each, the more I saw Breloom as a middle ground between the two. Amoongus's main utility is of a bulky spore user, and Magnezone can trap steels and hit back hard. Ultimately, for Magnezone I felt that Kitsunoh and Cawmodore both had tools to deal with him, even if they still wouldn't like being trapped. This was a really tough call to make for the last mon, but I think Breloom has earned his spot, as in the recent month he seems to have garnered some interest of his own in CAP matches. No hard feelings to Amoongus and Magnezone, and perhaps they can be tested in another month's DHC.

For now, feel free to Hurricane some Tomohawks with Noivern :)
 
Noivern, you say? I feel in a change in the winds, says I.

Overall, I can't say I was THRILLED with Noivern. It had some solid moments, but those (in my experience) seemed to be based less on its abilities and more on the fact that people were simply unprepared for it - didn't know its strengths or abilities. Nonetheless, here's my slate of battles. I know it's not enough to be considered for a point, but hoping it may spark conversation at least.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-163197751
The first match I actually won with Noivern was against Animus, of all people. It's hardly a great battle either - it hinges on a VERY dumb turn one read I made that 99% of the time should not pay off - this was simply the 1% moment where it did. Even with the miss, thanks to a timely crit and Noivern's MVP ability (more on that later), I was able to take down Mega-Garde, which really opened up the match for me. Also on display here is a surprising amount of bulk from Noivern - tanking both a Knock Off from Colo (who, AV'd, is a pretty hard counter), and a Mach Punch at low HP from Breloom. This match also features my only real use of Roost thus far. It's definitely not a requirement, but it allowed me to both keep Noivern alive, and avoid an otherwise KO from Colo's Sucker Punch.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-163235190
Second match is, in my opinion, the most interesting, as it showcases a couple partnerships Noivern NEEDS to function in CAP. Firstly, a partner that can handle Stratagem - in my case, Revenankh. Strata outspeeds and can OHKO Noivern with no trouble, and can switch in on Hurricanes with little concern (the damage adds up over time, but it can tank a couple). Colo can fill this role as well, though both it and Rev are walled by Tomo. This brings me to my second point - double switches. Every 'mon loves them, but Noivern NEEDS them to function. It's bulk is mediocre at best, and coupled with an SR weakness, it needs to get in clean. Pairing it with a couple of 'mons that lure Tomo is great way to facilitate that, and either KO the CAP-Used God, or hit something on the switch for heavy damage.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-163242004
The final matches show cases Infiltrator, as I end up against a sneaky Sub/Bulk Up Tomo (though, truth be told, I expected a Baton Pass, not Acrobatics). In any event (and again despite an untimely Hurricane miss), Infiltrator proves that in certain situations it can be absolutely life saving. With Tomo down, the match was blown wide open for my Colo/Kitsunoh pair to go to town on the rest of his team. WoW Kit is probably the MVP here, but it would not have succeeded without Noivern's valiant sacrifice to take down Tomohawk.

In summary, Noivern's certainly an interesting 'mon. Flying remains a great attacking type, and Draco Meteor is a great nuke to have in your back pocket for greater threats (and Cyclohm). However, it is INCREDIBLY frail, and checked hard by a few CAP-Used mons. I don't know if I'd make it a regular on any of my teams, but it was definitely fun to play.
 
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HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
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Tadasuke, I have a backlog of unreviewed replays and I'm not sure which ones you just approved. Malamar, Empoleon, and Regice are the ones in question.
 
Noivern was very fun to play with. Hurricane off of modest specs hits like a truck, and rain makes that an even more effective strat. He seems really good for breaking Tomo stall, since with modest specs it easily ohkos max spec.D Tomo with hurricane, and infiltrator means subs and screens be damned. Here are my matches, this time with less of the replay servers screwing me :D

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-163234496
This game was the first to show me that bisharp is actually kinda butts, and I feel bad for the kid using water moves on mollux twice. Speed tie kills MegaChomp, Mollux with thunder is good, ect. Noivern does a good job of cleaning up some of the offensive threats on his team, particularly Auromoth and Caw.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-163243098

Krillowatt takes no damage from draco apparently. He uses rest, i switch a bunch, Sack the crippled noivern to a malaconda, and his team fails to do anything to mollux, so that pretty much sealed the deal. Also, sludge Wave is the best STAB move more mollux, I swear.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-163248654

Rain VS Rain and noivern seems pretty good for this match-up, mostly because Hurricane is real gud, doing just over half of Cyclom's health. I forget about sucker punch and lose noivern, beat up Toxicroak with mollux, and he gave up from there.

Author: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-163284413

Me VS HeaL, and the early kill on scizor pretty much won me the game, since he no longer had one of his revengers and his SR clearer. Although, had I got like 1 more turn of sleep on him, I would have been in a much better spot, breloom still kills. It also helps that he sacked his Scarftran early because he though it would out-speed. I believe my cloyster is timid though, so that didn't happen. Vern brings breloom to his sash then kind of just sits there asleep for the rest of the game, And rock-tomb took me offguard. Iron barbs is a cool guy though, so that worked. I then put sylveon to sleep, and then mollux cleaned up his team. GG HeaL, it was fun :D
 

HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
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Alright, today is the last candidate's turn to be tested, so feel free to give Breloom a whirl! Breloom has gained momentum as a hard-hitting spore user, and sleep in general is a very good status to try to abuse in CAP (and is one of the few statuses to affect Krilowatt). I trust that your Breloom matches will be fun today!

Tomorrow, we will start our poll, in which users will vote for who they think will have the biggest impact on the CAP meta. I am unsure at this point if I will host an external strawpoll or if I will use Smogon's built-in poll feature, but it will all be decided tomorrow regardless. The 3 or 4 candidates with the most votes will move on to be featured in our Dark Horse Tournament, in which at least 1 of the voted Dark Horses will be required to be featured on your team in order to enter. No team switching allowed. Since I will be managing teams and reviewing tournament replays, I am NOT allowed to enter. Additionally, I would like 1 volunteer to help me out with hosting the tournament and reviewing battles, etc. Myself and this volunteer will not be allowed to enter the tournament since we will have access to team lists, etc. I do not necessarily want this volunteer to be a top tier player, since we need all the players we can get to enter the tournament itself.

With that said, discussion about all of the candidate's performance is now allowed. You can back up your reasoning with replays found in the second post of this thread (the battle log) or you can post new replays of your own to further your argument. In any event, try to make your arguments well-reasoned. All of the candidates have flaws, and all have some positive traits as well.
 
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So I actually have a ton to say about Breloom today. Breloom is an interesting Pokemon. It has Spore in its arsenal, and decent enough Speed to use it. The weak point in Breloom is that he's a Physical Pokemon in a format full of Physical walls that OHKO him. Immediately, this rules out the Technician set, since it doesn't actually beat anything in the format at all except Colossoil, and at that point, you're better off with Heracross-M.
Breloom does have an interesting boon in that it is one of two Pokemon that can abuse Toxic Heal Subs, along with Gliscor, and the only one to have Leech Seed in its arsenal. So basically, you just need to get your Spore off once, and you can set up Leech Seed and spam Substitute for the rest of the game. Add Focus Punch to make Chansey feel icky, and you have a recipe for a decent niche mon.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-163588731
So the trick here was to find opportunities to get Breloom in against a field of pokemon that are all incredibly efficient counters to Breloom. We have two Grass Pokemon, one of which was also Ghost. We have Cyclohm and Tomohawk, which make me glad I didn't go Technician. We have Krilowatt, which was probably of questionable utility with his team composition anyway, and we have a Auromoth, which is faster even before Quiver Dance.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-163593261
One of the more important things you give up going for a Defensive set is the ability to straight up slaughter Colossoils. This video shows you how you have to do it with a defensive set.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-163596025
One of the upsides of being stall Breloom is beating a plethora of Pokemon you really have no business facing, in this case Dragonite.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-163693937
So here's a match against HeaLnDeaL, and it was quite a match. It got cut short because of connection issues, but it was going to be pretty hard for HeaL to come back without some major luck-sacking.


As a bonus, here's this replay, and I honestly have no clue what happened here.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/cap-163591303
 

HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
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Alright, we are now in our voting stage! Please, use the strawpoll link provided in order to vote.

http://strawpoll.me/2573810

Remember, the 3 or 4 candidates with the greatest number of votes will be featured in our Dark Horse Tournament. Here, users who sign up must submit a team with at least one of the voted-in Dark Horses to HeaLnDeaL via PM, and use that same team throughout the entire tournament.

Also, feel free to use this space to discuss the performances of various Dark Horse candidates, and your arguments might influence other voters.
 

HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
is an Artistis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
Alright, thanks Tadasuke.

Also, I'm going to go ahead and close voting early in order to allow for more team building time. So, with that, here's our winning Dark Horse candidates:

4. Fidgit. With 6 votes, Fidgit tied for the fourth place spot. He's the only CAPmon to have been a candidate, and his strong showing as a supporter seems to have inspired some confidence in voters.
4. Breloom. As the last candidate to be tested, Breloom showed power both with a Poison Heal set and one with technician to utilize Mach Punch against Strategem and Bullet Punch against Krilowatt. Breloom received 6 votes.
2. Mew. After being pushed back to UU last gen, Mew seems to be gaining some momentum, and this has carried through even to CAP. Mew received 7 votes.
1. Heracross. There's no surprise in this one; Mega Heracross was the most utilized candidate and more people earned points with him than any other candidate. Though his speed is lackluster, this was somewhat remedied by a handful of players using stick web support via Necturna. Of course, the main selling point are Heracross's power moves via skill link and his blistering high attack stat. Heracross received 8 votes.

With that, tournament sign ups are now open. Remember, in order to sign up, you must submit a team via PM to HeaLnDeaL with at least one of the above 4 Pokemon on it. Once submitted, you will be required to use that same team in all of your tourney matches (you can do private battles so no one other than your opponent will see).

The tournament will be single elimination, and each round will last 2 days. This means you'll have to contact your opponent and set up a battle time relatively quickly. Fortunately, since we're mostly familiar with each other, this should be within reason. If both sides fail to battle in time and have equally been engaged in setting up a match, then there will be coin toss to see who wins the match (please, I don't want to have to do this though). The only exception to this rule will be for the tourney finals, in which case there will be an extension given if time is desperately needed. The winner of the tournament will earn 10 points to their leader board score, and points will also be awarded to other top finishers (read more in the OP).

Everyone is allowed to sign up and play. This means even if you have 0 points right now, you can still sign up right now. You also don't need to be a CAP project/CAP room regular to sign up. The main rule is you have to use a single team with one of the four above mons, PM it to HeaLnDeaL, and stick to the one team throughout the tournament.

The OP said:
To sign up, reply to the thread with the bolded phrase "I want to sign up for the Dark Horse Tournament" and then PM the team you will be using to HeaLnDeaL. Teams cannot be changed once submitted. If it is found that your team deviated during tournament play from the one you submitted, then you will be disqualified. Everyone entering must have at least one of this month’s voted Dark Horses on their team in order to participate.

Sign ups will end on the night of the 19th or the morning of the 20th. Afterwards, a bracket will promptly be posted. Each round will last only 48 hours, so if you're a participant be sure to contact your current opponent right away to schedule a time to have your battle. Whether you win or lose, both participants in each match are expected to reply to the thread to declare the result. Additionally, each user is to PM HeaLnDeaL a link to the replay of the match in the off chance of a dispute (and to verify that your team has not changed).

The winner of the Monthly Dark Horse Tournament will receive 10 points to be added to their point total, whereas the runner-up will receive 6 points and 3rd and 4th place both will receive 2 points.
Good luck to everyone, and sign ups shall last a few days!
 

HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
is an Artistis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
Tadasuke, I've went and clarified some things about my volunteer request:

Additionally, I would like 1 volunteer to help me out with hosting the tournament and reviewing battles, etc. Myself and this volunteer will not be allowed to enter the tournament since we will have access to team lists, etc.
So, if you want to sign up for the tournament, you can't volunteer to review replays, sorry :c
 

HeaLnDeaL

Let's Keep Fighting
is an Artistis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
Alright, tough decision, but thanks for the assistance Tadasuke.

gday, please PM me your team here on smogon when you're ready :)
 
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