XY UU Viability Ranking Thread V2

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I think Cobalion could very well rise to A- now. Without Victini, which was everywhere before, only reason to run Stone Edge is to hit Chandelure (and the bulky Water-types that resist both STABs I guess, although they aren't as immediately threatening and you're not doing that much anyway), meaning you can very well run Taunt or Magnet Rise in the last moveslot—or hell, even SR if you can't fit it anywhere else, lol—of the SD set. It combines being a very good offensive check to SD Luke (NP Vacuum Wave Luke being more viable is ugly to it, tho), sweeping capabilities due to its high Speed stat, and even wallbreaking due to typing and Taunt.
The biggest reasons why it's not great are its weak Attack stat unboosted (especially if running Lum) and obvious competition with other Fighting-types, mainly with said Luke (also taking around 30% from Cune Scald is ugh). I can understand if you guys see those reasons as enough to prevent it from rising, though, but there's no loss in making the nom.

Also Entei rocks :o
 
Kinda unrelated, but I nominate Slurpuff for A-/A. Slurpuff is a monstrous sweeper that has 1-2 switchins in the tier, and outspeeds almost everything once Unburden is activated. However, it is really frail and can't take a hit at all, meaning it needs to get in safely.
It can be completely shut down just about any defensive steel type in the tier. Jirachi can take any of its hits and retaliate with Iron Head, or even shut it down with Thunder Wave. After any entry harzard Lucario can switch in and just Bullet Punch it to hell after a Belly Drum. Fortress and Aggron can also easily take a +6 hit from it and OHKO with their stab moves. Hell, any Empoleon set can come in and roar it out after belly drum, effectively destroying Slurpuff's sweeping potential. If it runs Heal Bell, it can be walked all over by fast attackers and if it doesn't it turns into completely dead weight if it's statused.

It can still sweep in specific situations, that's for sure, but overall it's not a good mon compared to the plethora of other more reliable sweepers. The fact you really only get one shot with it also kills any reason for it to be anywhere near A rank.
 
I think Cobalion could very well rise to A- now. Without Victini, which was everywhere before, only reason to run Stone Edge is to hit Chandelure (and the bulky Water-types that resist both STABs I guess, although they aren't as immediately threatening and you're not doing that much anyway), meaning you can very well run Taunt or Magnet Rise in the last moveslot—or hell, even SR if you can't fit it anywhere else, lol—of the SD set. It combines being a very good offensive check to SD Luke (NP Vacuum Wave Luke being more viable is ugly to it, tho), sweeping capabilities due to its high Speed stat, and even wallbreaking due to typing and Taunt.
The biggest reasons why it's not great are its weak Attack stat unboosted (especially if running Lum) and obvious competition with other Fighting-types, mainly with said Luke (also taking around 30% from Cune Scald is ugh). I can understand if you guys see those reasons as enough to prevent it from rising, though, but there's no loss in making the nom.

Also Entei rocks :o
Sub is also cool because Alomomola who would normally wall you can't break it and you get free swords dances without risking a burn.
 

Meru

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And unlike Virizion, Cobalion has the typing and stats to pull off not needing Lum Berry. Since Virizion's role is to set up on Water-types, temporary immunity to Scald burns is much more crucial, whereas Cobalion sets up on physical attackers, choice locked Dark attacks, and defensive pokemon, making Leftovers much more viable. Steel/Fighting also gets much better coverage than Grass/Fighting, and doesn't keel over immediately to Crobat.
 

Sage

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I know me, Dudeman, and Bob the Bro have all tried sub SD Cobalion and the results are really good. He might be pretty weak unboosted but you can sub on stuff like defensive Roserade, Amoonguss lacking HP Fire, Alomomola, even non fire Punch support Jirachi. Also it gets leftovers since it doesn't need a lum berry because Sunfish won't break its sub and it doesn't set up on other waters anyway. Also sets up on Forretress and easily tanks a volt switch loving the sub. Really cool mon.
 
Yea, the reason why Lum is a cool alternative on non-Sub variants is because bulky Water-types are still switching in on you even if you're not setting up on them. It also allows you to avoid WoW from Sable while you OHKO non physically defensive variants at +2 after SR. Obviously Sub does that too, but with Lum you can get away with running Magnet Rise to do better against offensive teams, or Taunt against defensive ones that can break your Sub—like I said, most bulky Water-types break your Sub anyway, meaning Lum makes its job easier there.
Sub is definitely a good intermediate option tho, dunno why I forgot to mention it lol.
 

The Leprechaun

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Something I'd like to see is Mega-Abomasnow to rise from B- to B/B+. The set I've been using to ladder has been SD, Wood Hammer, Ice Shard and EQ. Against stall it really shines, with most of the bulky waters often being the answers to strong physical attackers, Aboma can rip straight through defensive cores. Against offensive it can shine too thanks to its large bulk, ability to find easy set-up opportunities, high base power moves and high attacking stats. The fact that it can run several different moves including sub-seed, blizzard and giga drain adds to its versatility. Of course, the hail it brings can also be utilised in an effective way when paired with toxic spikes, flinches and other passive damage.

Here are some matchups with top tier pokes:
Offensive calcs:
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lucario: 324-382 (115.3 - 135.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aerodactyl: 307-363 (101.9 - 120.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aerodactyl: 206-246 (68.4 - 81.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 136-162 (53.9 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mega Ampharos: 170-200 (44.3 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 372-440 (103.9 - 122.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Crobat: 176-210 (47.1 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, hail damage, and Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Crobat: 350-414 (93.8 - 110.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Haxorus: 162-192 (54.5 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and hail damage
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 162-192 (49.8 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 244-288 (71.5 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 244-288 (60.3 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mienshao: 220-259 (81.1 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mienshao: 330-388 (121.7 - 143.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 676-796 (168.5 - 198.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 288-338 (71.2 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, hail damage, and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Absol: 220-259 (81.1 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Absol: 330-388 (121.7 - 143.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 396-466 (55.4 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Krookodile: 350-414 (105.7 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Krookodile: 260-308 (78.5 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Nidoqueen: 326-386 (92.3 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 104 HP / 248+ Def Alomomola: 728-858 (146.4 - 172.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 104 HP / 248+ Def Alomomola: 366-432 (73.6 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 290-344 (71.7 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery

Defensive calcs:
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Abomasnow: 257-304 (66.9 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Abomasnow: 260-306 (67.7 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Abomasnow: 282-334 (73.4 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

etc
 
Something I'd like to see is Mega-Abomasnow to rise from B- to B/B+. The set I've been using to ladder has been SD, Wood Hammer, Ice Shard and EQ. Against stall it really shines, with most of the bulky waters often being the answers to strong physical attackers, Aboma can rip straight through defensive cores. Against offensive it can shine too thanks to its large bulk, ability to find easy set-up opportunities, high base power moves and high attacking stats. The fact that it can run several different moves including sub-seed, blizzard and giga drain adds to its versatility. Of course, the hail it brings can also be utilised in an effective way when paired with toxic spikes, flinches and other passive damage.

Here are some matchups with top tier pokes:
Offensive calcs:
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lucario: 324-382 (115.3 - 135.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aerodactyl: 307-363 (101.9 - 120.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aerodactyl: 206-246 (68.4 - 81.7%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 136-162 (53.9 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mega Ampharos: 170-200 (44.3 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 372-440 (103.9 - 122.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Crobat: 176-210 (47.1 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, hail damage, and Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Crobat: 350-414 (93.8 - 110.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 16 HP / 0 Def Haxorus: 162-192 (54.5 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and hail damage
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 162-192 (49.8 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 244-288 (71.5 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 244-288 (60.3 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mienshao: 220-259 (81.1 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mienshao: 330-388 (121.7 - 143.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 676-796 (168.5 - 198.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 288-338 (71.2 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, hail damage, and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Absol: 220-259 (81.1 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Absol: 330-388 (121.7 - 143.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 396-466 (55.4 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Krookodile: 350-414 (105.7 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Krookodile: 260-308 (78.5 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Nidoqueen: 326-386 (92.3 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 104 HP / 248+ Def Alomomola: 728-858 (146.4 - 172.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Wood Hammer vs. 104 HP / 248+ Def Alomomola: 366-432 (73.6 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Mega Abomasnow Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 290-344 (71.7 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage and Leftovers recovery

Defensive calcs:
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Abomasnow: 257-304 (66.9 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Abomasnow: 260-306 (67.7 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Abomasnow: 282-334 (73.4 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

etc
These are all really cute calcs and all, but numbers don't mean anything if not put into context. Yes, I completely understand that Mega-Abomasnow can shatter every single one of these Pokemon with its amazing mixed offensive stats, but there are two very critical flaws of Mega Abomasnow. First, its Speed is GOD AWFUL. 30-something Speed does only a bit better than Snorlax. Factoring in this, almost every single offensively minded Pokemon on your list of calculations (Lucario, Mega Absol, Jirachi, Crobat) either destroys Abomasnow straight up or after Stealth Rock (which is omnipresent and should always be considered). Second, with the banning of Victini and Togekiss, Fighting types and bulky Fire-types (Arcanine and Entei) are seeing rises in usage. Every single Fighting-type currently relevant in UU bar Virizion is 100% able to fuck up Mega Abomasnow with little repercussions. Likewise, Entei and Arcanine can do pretty much the exact same thing.
 
Alright, so I think I'd like to make some more noms.

-> Up to S Rank

As a whole, Jirachi is easily one of the best mons in the current metagame; it provides a much needed resist to Dragon- and Flying-types on bulky offensive teams, is one of the best offensive Stealth Rock setters in the tier, and is just versatile as fuck. From its ability to dismantle defensive cores with SuperRachi and SubToxic variants, to serving as a reliable Scarfer with Serene Grace Iron Head and ability to help late-game sweeps with Healing Wish, to serving as a great pivot on more defensively oriented teams with its decent defensive typing and access to Wish, Jirachi is undeniably a huge impact on the metagame. To make it short, it fits on nearly all playstyles, does whatever job it's designed to do very well unless it has hard counters to that specific set (meaning that while Empoleon has a field day with SubToxic Rachi, it doesn't like getting smacked with a Thunderbolt), and really has only gotten better with the departure of Victini.

Hydreigon was really only A+ rank due to Togekiss being in the tier, and now that Victini is out of the tier it generally feels less inclined to run a Scarf set, meaning it can use LO sets with much less downsides now, which is really nice considering LO is its best set, and does better against both offense and balance, while Scarf sets have a bit more trouble with teams having Aroma, Blissey, and Florges.

-> Stays in A+

While there's no doubting that Mega Aero is a very good pokemon, I just don't see it in S right now. If anything, it got a little bit worse (although that's not really saying much) with Victini and Togekiss's leave instead of benefiting it. It had a really good niche in being offensive checks to both of them, being able to Pursuit-trap non Scarf variants of Victini (while I'm not saying Pursuit isn't good on Aero now, as it still traps the likes of Chandy and other mons that can't really touch it under certain circumstances, but getting rid of the opposing team's Victini, especially early to mid game, essentially gives you a much higher chance to win, as Tini was really dangerous to just about any team that didn't have Arcanine), and it also served as a great offensive check to Togekiss. With the growing popularity of Swampert, Mega Aggron, etc., who suck pretty much all momentum from Mega Aero's side as soon as they enter the field, Mega Aero just isn't fit for S at the moment or any moment for that matter

-> Down to B+

I really, really, like this thing, but I think now that Victini and Togekiss are gone, it should move down. Dugtrio + Togekiss were a pretty fucking mindless combo together, as pretty much everything not named ScarfRachi got mauled by it, and now that Victini is gone, it lost another cool niche in being able to trap it. There's also the fact that CB sets get set up on by anything with wings after it's trapping job is done, and LO misses out on some key OHKOs / 2HKOs.

-> Up to B+ / A-

Yeah, now that Victini is gone, Darmanitan finally gets to steal the spotlight. While the presence of ScarfHydrei is kind of annoying to it, it's arguably one of the best offensive mons in the tier at the moment, especially considering Sheer Force Flare Blitz hits like a fucking truck. It's also a huge pain in the ass to Hyper Offensive styles lacking Scarf mons that outspeed it.

Other mons that i'm considering / agreeing on moving up but am too lazy to write

Megasnow to B
Suicune to S
Meloetta to B / B+


also 600th post :]
 

The Leprechaun

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These are all really cute calcs and all, but numbers don't mean anything if not put into context. Yes, I completely understand that Mega-Abomasnow can shatter every single one of these Pokemon with its amazing mixed offensive stats, but there are two very critical flaws of Mega Abomasnow. First, its Speed is GOD AWFUL. 30-something Speed does only a bit better than Snorlax. Factoring in this, almost every single offensively minded Pokemon on your list of calculations (Lucario, Mega Absol, Jirachi, Crobat) either destroys Abomasnow straight up or after Stealth Rock (which is omnipresent and should always be considered). Second, with the banning of Victini and Togekiss, Fighting types and bulky Fire-types (Arcanine and Entei) are seeing rises in usage. Every single Fighting-type currently relevant in UU bar Virizion is 100% able to fuck up Mega Abomasnow with little repercussions. Likewise, Entei and Arcanine can do pretty much the exact same thing.
Yeah I understand all that which is why I was only nomming it for B. My point with the calcs was trying to show that there are very very few switchins to mega abomasnow in A rank. Sorry I didn't make that clear.
 

dingbat

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I agree that both Rachi and Hydreigon should go up to S rank. Losing Kiss and Tini really helped both of them.

Sableye might become A+ rank

Also, Kabutops need to be ranked

Will elaborate more after my classes today
 
These are all really cute calcs and all, but numbers don't mean anything if not put into context. Yes, I completely understand that Mega-Abomasnow can shatter every single one of these Pokemon with its amazing mixed offensive stats, but there are two very critical flaws of Mega Abomasnow. First, its Speed is GOD AWFUL. 30-something Speed does only a bit better than Snorlax. Factoring in this, almost every single offensively minded Pokemon on your list of calculations (Lucario, Mega Absol, Jirachi, Crobat) either destroys Abomasnow straight up or after Stealth Rock (which is omnipresent and should always be considered). Second, with the banning of Victini and Togekiss, Fighting types and bulky Fire-types (Arcanine and Entei) are seeing rises in usage. Every single Fighting-type currently relevant in UU bar Virizion is 100% able to fuck up Mega Abomasnow with little repercussions. Likewise, Entei and Arcanine can do pretty much the exact same thing.
Both Mega Absol and Crobat are killed after rocks by a +2 ice shard (plus aboma's great bulk means it easily stomachs a sucker punch, and potentially even a fire blast if you decide to set up on absol for some reason). The others are an issue, but the switch is really easy to predict, so you can nail them with earthquake.

The value I see in Maboma is that it doubles as both a fantastic stallbreaker and a good cleaner against offense. Ice and Grass singlehandedly dismantles a lot of stall cores, hitting the majority of physical walls super effectively, while easily demolishing special walls. The only things that can really stand up to it on stall are Umbreon, who can get the kill with a +2 foul play iirc, and Arcanine. Even sableye struggles, as aboma can hold off on the mega evolution and outspeed it, meaning its ice shard will hit before the WoW and kill it after 35% or so prior damage.

Meanwhile, late game against offense, aboma can easily find the time to set up with its great bulk and useful resistances, and proceed to sweep with ice shard. Looking at S-A rankings, only 6 or so of the offensive mons can feasibly survive a boosted ice shard, and Blastoise and Raikou can't even 1hko you (Aura sphere is rare, but it just misses the kill anyway). And notably, all the rest bar Chandelure are trapped and killed by Dugtrio...

It definitely appreciates tini leaving, but overall I don't think the current meta is any more or less friendly to it than before. That said, I think it probably should've been higher beforehand anyway, so I wouldn't be adverse to a rise- B certainly isn't asking for much.
 
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Kink

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Dugtrio should not be A- rank, and neither should be tornadus nor alomomola.

The very nature/definition of A-rank is that it can stand on its own legs in the meta. Both of these pokemon need the right support to work. Given the amount of priority and bulky users, dugtrio requires prediction to use, and even then it's usually a revenge killer on specific threats. This is a b rank quality. Tornadus, with its "suicide lead" tendancies", stealth rock weakness, and lackluster speed (there are a lot of 115s) when compared to other sweepers, also requires support to be considered "supremely" effective. Alomomola, while effective in what it does, requires the correct team formula to be considered a threat. Also qualities of b rank.

Both of these observations are made with my recent experience in the dark horse project. Although having these three mons got me to 1656 (b-rank), it still wasn't enough to secure the offensive core of the team. I don't think this has to do with teambuilding as much as it had to do with the sheer viability of these mons.

Recommending all three be moved to B+
 
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Blissey for A -> S rank (or A+ at least)
This thing. I don't even want to go into detail about it. It's just... ugh. I hate it so much. The infamous pink blob since its existence has terrorised every special sweeper available. Nothing can seem to dent its gargantuan HP stat and its above-average special defense. It can pass HUGE wishes that basically heals anything to full HP, whether you invest into HP or not. It's got access to a solid ability in Natural Cure, meaning it can't be Toxic stalled. It's also got Aromatherapy, Seismic Toss, Heal Bell, Toxic, Thunder Wave, and Wish in its support arsenal, meaning that it can fit on any team needing a special wall. Although its Defense is laughable (Caterpie has better Defense), it is somewhat mitigated by its HP stat and that it doesn't need to run HP Evs; meaning that it can invest fully in defense and special defense.

As a tribute to its stalling potential, here are some calcs from some the tier's top special sweepers.
252 SpA Choice Specs Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 130-154 (19.9 - 23.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Overheat vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 243-286 (37.2 - 43.8%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 243-286 (37.2 - 43.8%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 204-240 (31.2 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 190-224 (29.1 - 34.3%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 133-156 (20.3 - 23.9%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 220-260 (33.7 - 39.8%) -- 28.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Aura Sphere vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 190-224 (29.1 - 34.3%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

It can barely take a Physical hit though lol. But, it's usually run in a core with something like Hippowdon so it can take physical hits for it. It's not meant to wall EVERYTHING. It can be easily revenged considering how slow it is and the omnipresence of fighting types.

However; Blissey is arguably the best cleric in the tier. It's got special defense that can't be matched (when factoring in HP) and that it needs one physically defensive partner to be successful.

Let's take a look at the S-rank description:
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are almost flawless in the UU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and almost always brings a high reward. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are more than made up for by numerous positive traits.
  • Extremely successful cleric. The only thing letting it down is its physical defense.
  • Only needs one physically defensive partner and it fits on ANY team perfectly. Hippowdon or even Granbull are prime examples.
  • After physical sweepers are statused/weakened/fainted, it's got the match.
  • Constantly forces out special sweepers not carrying Psyshock, meaning that it can buy free turns for its team.
  • Very difficult to wallbreak specially. It's not like Florges, who is 2HKO'd by Sludge Wave from a Nidoking. Most Focus Blasts aimed at it are completely laughed at.
I feel as if it fits the S-rank criteria. I might as well have pros and cons as a tl;dr.
Pros:
  • the best cleric in UU at the moment
  • ability that fits its role perfectly
  • gargantuan HP stat and special defense stat -- meaning that it doesn't need HP investment = goes straight to patching its defense.
  • access to easily the best support moves in the game, especially Wish, Thunder Wave and Toxic
  • forces out every special sweeper by walling it, unless they carry Psyshock
  • one weakness and one immunity
Cons:
  • its defense stat.
  • its typing could use some resistances (?)
 
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Blissey for A -> S rank (or A+ at least)
This thing. I don't even want to go into detail about it. It's just... ugh. I hate it so much. The infamous pink blob since its existence has terrorised every special sweeper available. Nothing can seem to dent its gargantuan HP stat and its above-average special defense. It can pass HUGE wishes that basically heals anything to full HP, whether you invest into HP or not. It's got access to a solid ability in Natural Cure, meaning it can't be Toxic stalled. It's also got Aromatherapy, Seismic Toss, Heal Bell, Toxic, Thunder Wave, and Wish in its support arsenal, meaning that it can fit on any team needing a special wall. Although its Defense is laughable (Caterpie has better Defense), it is somewhat mitigated by its HP stat and that it doesn't need to run HP Evs; meaning that it can invest fully in defense and special defense.

As a tribute to its stalling potential, here are some calcs from some the tier's top special sweepers.
252 SpA Choice Specs Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 130-154 (19.9 - 23.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Overheat vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 243-286 (37.2 - 43.8%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 243-286 (37.2 - 43.8%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 204-240 (31.2 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Porygon-Z Tri Attack vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 190-224 (29.1 - 34.3%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 133-156 (20.3 - 23.9%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 220-260 (33.7 - 39.8%) -- 28.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Mega Launcher Mega Blastoise Aura Sphere vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 190-224 (29.1 - 34.3%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

It can barely take a Physical hit though lol. But, it's usually run in a core with something like Hippowdon so it can take physical hits for it. It's not meant to wall EVERYTHING. It can be easily revenged considering how slow it is and the omnipresence of fighting types.

However; Blissey is arguably the best cleric in the tier. It's got special defense that can't be matched (when factoring in HP) and that it needs one physically defensive partner to be successful.

Let's take a look at the S-rank description:

  • Extremely successful cleric. The only thing letting it down is its physical defense.
  • Only needs one physically defensive partner and it fits on ANY team perfectly. Hippowdon or even Granbull are prime examples.
  • After physical sweepers are statused/weakened/fainted, it's got the match.
  • Constantly forces out special sweepers not carrying Psyshock, meaning that it can buy free turns for its team.
  • Very difficult to wallbreak specially. It's not like Florges, who is 2HKO'd by Sludge Wave from a Nidoking. Most Focus Blasts aimed at it are completely laughed at.
I feel as if it fits the S-rank criteria. I might as well have pros and cons as a tl;dr.
Pros:
  • the best cleric in UU at the moment
  • ability that fits its role perfectly
  • gargantuan HP stat and special defense stat -- meaning that it doesn't need HP investment = goes straight to patching its defense.
  • access to easily the best support moves in the game, especially Wish, Thunder Wave and Toxic
  • forces out every special sweeper by walling it, unless they carry Psyshock
  • one weakness and one immunity
Cons:
  • its defense stat.
  • its typing could use some resistances (?)

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are almost flawless in the UU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and almost always brings a high reward. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are more than made up for by numerous positive traits.

Blissey's perfectly at home is A Rank because she absolutely has no business switching into this tier's top physical attacker, which are the most powerful mons around. So if you turn tail and run even at the sight of them in Team Preview, you have absolutely no business being S Rank.
 
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are almost flawless in the UU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and almost always brings a high reward. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are more than made up for by numerous positive traits.

Blissey's perfectly at home is A Rank because she absolutely has no business switching into this tier's top physical attacker, which are the most powerful mons around. So if you turn tail and run even at the sight of them in Team Preview, you have absolutely no business being S Rank.
Although most would go running from the sight of a Lucario, it's able to cripple it with Thunder Wave on the switch, which is amazingly helpful in taking it down. With Lucario paralyzed, it's able to then switch to something that can take it out. No pokemon is completely resistant to everything. Lucario fears the day a Dugtrio traps and OHKOs it with EQ, allowing Blissey to breathe. It just depends on the partners that it's paired with.

Did you not even read the whole post? I go through what its Pros and Cons are, and I acknowledge that it does have weaknesses. Lucario hates going against Infernape, Ghost Types such as Jellicent, etc. so, it's got threats too. You can't expect pokes to resist everything.

Although S-ranks should be able to fear nothing, Blissey has the bulk to sustain everyting but a physical attack. Also, it plays the role as a specially defensive cleric. Which, it does EXTREMELY well, foreshadowing pokemon such as Umbreon and Florges. They have their own unique niches, though.

Plus, the fact that Blissey can EASILY create free turns for itself, it's very viable for S rank. Considering that Lucario has many roles, Blissey has one that is does EXTREMELY well, which is in the S-rank description.
 
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Kink

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Although most would go running from the sight of a Lucario, it's able to cripple it with Thunder Wave on the switch, which is amazingly helpful in taking it down. With Lucario paralyzed, it's able to then switch to something that can take it out. No pokemon is completely resistant to everything. Lucario fears the day a Dugtrio traps and OHKOs it with EQ, allowing Blissey to breathe. It just depends on the partners that it's paired with.

Did you not even read the whole post? I go through what its Pros and Cons are, and I acknowledge that it does have weaknesses. Lucario hates going against Infernape, Ghost Types such as Jellicent, etc. so, it's got threats too. You can't expect pokes to resist everything.

Although S-ranks should be able to fear nothing, Blissey has the bulk to sustain everyting but a physical attack. Also, it plays the role as a specially defensive cleric. Which, it does EXTREMELY well, foreshadowing pokemon such as Umbreon and Florges. They have their own unique niches, though.

Plus, the fact that Blissey can EASILY create free turns for itself, it's very viable for S rank. Considering that Lucario has many roles, Blissey has one that is does EXTREMELY well, which is in the S-rank description.

The most I would personally grant Blissey is A+, simply because if its sheer viability to be slapped onto almost any team, but TrulyDevious is correct when he says that it can't sponge physical hits, at least not repeatedly. This feature prevents Blissey from fully standing on its own legs, which is essentially the criteria of S-rank mons.
 
Blissey really can't fit onto almost every team though - it honestly only fits on stall and like defensive balance - it gives away way too many free turns to scary physical wallbreakers for other team styles to deal with.
 
The most I would personally grant Blissey is A+, simply because if its sheer viability to be slapped onto almost any team, but TrulyDevious is correct when he says that it can't sponge physical hits, at least not repeatedly. This feature prevents Blissey from fully standing on its own legs, which is essentially the criteria of S-rank mons.
I agree. It can take a mastery of special attacks, but is drop-kicked into next week by any physical attack, especially Fighting-type ones. Generally, the S-rank criteria states the pokemon must destroy or wall significant portions of the meta. Considering that the meta is around 40% specially based, it's a HUGE amount to wall. That's not even including mixed sweepers that don't carry superpower.

It's not even exaggeration to say that you can win if you only have Blissey left on your team and the other team has 4 other pokemon that are specially based. That's a HUGE feat that can't be matched by any other special wall in the meta. Given the right team-mates (only needs one at most, if any are even NEEDED), it can take on the whole meta without fear; showing that it can fit in S. Especially considering that most walls are specially offensive.

Blissey really can't fit onto almost every team though - it honestly only fits on stall and like defensive balance - it gives away way too many free turns to scary physical wallbreakers for other team styles to deal with.
It can fit on any team in need of a specially defensive cleric. Which, is rather common in the meta, in the form of Blissey, Florges and Umbreon. Plus, the support that it adds can't be matched. It also gives turns to itself in return when a special sweeper is switched in, and then switching out. This can result in a physical sweeper being poisoned or paralysed, crippling it for the entire match.

It can also fit on teams in need of a sturdy tank that can support; kind of like a Dual Screener for other teams.
 

Kink

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I agree. It can take a mastery of special attacks, but is drop-kicked into next week by any physical attack, especially Fighting-type ones. Generally, the S-rank criteria states the pokemon must destroy or wall significant portions of the meta. Considering that the meta is around 40% specially based, it's a HUGE amount to wall. That's not even including mixed sweepers that don't carry superpower.

It's not even exaggeration to say that you can win if you only have Blissey left on your team and the other team has 4 other pokemon that are specially based. That's a HUGE feat that can't be matched by any other special wall in the meta. Given the right team-mates (only needs one at most, if any are even NEEDED), it can take on the whole meta without fear; showing that it can fit in S. Especially considering that most walls are specially offensive.

It can fit on any team in need of a specially defensive cleric. Which, is rather common in the meta, in the form of Blissey, Florges and Umbreon. Plus, the support that it adds can't be matched. It also gives turns to itself in return when a special sweeper is switched in, and then switching out. This can result in a physical sweeper being poisoned or paralysed, crippling it for the entire match.

It can also fit on teams in need of a sturdy tank that can support; kind of like a Dual Screener for other teams.

I think you overemphasize the versatility of Blissey. Any decent player will recognize Blissey for what it is, and people prepare for it. There's a reason why stall doesn't define the meta right now: because there are simply more viable options given the current state of the meta, and there are ways to get around stall even without Victini. Blissey should stay A+, at least for now.
 
it's not even a+ lol

Blissey in A+ seems a bit iffy to me, along with the points King stated, Blissey actually gives free turns to common special attackers; it lets Stoise spin, Queen set up rocks, Amphy Volt Switch, etc etc. It also kinda forces you to use a playstyle that's mediocre at best in the current metagame, and with fighting-types and Suicune being fucking everywhere I don't think Blissey deserves to be A+, let alone S.
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

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Alright, here is what I support atm (plus a few things of my own).

->S Jirachi is really, really good right now. It is a really versatile threat and does a lot for its team. ScarfRachi is incredibly annoying, as it can outspeed a lot of Pokemon and a decently powerful Iron Head with a 60% flinch chance is an incredible revenge killing tool and allows Jirachi to revenge a lot of Pokemon. It can also run a defensive set with Wish and Paraflinch so it can be rather annoying and it provides tons of nice support. It also has other annoying tricks up its sleeve, like SubToxic and Superrachi. With all these, Jirachi can be slotted onto any team and also be very unpredictable and annoying in every match, definitely an S Rank mon, it's very threatening and requires every team to carry at least two checks to it.

->S Hydreigon is a monster. It is a scary wallbreaker with a Life Orb, as LO boosted Draco Meteors sting and put massive holes into any Pokemon that doesn't resist or is immune to Draco Meteor. It also has incredible coverage with Dark Pulse, Fire Blast, and either Superpower or Iron Tail to smash Blissey or Florges/Aroma, Hydreigon is a scary wallbreaker. It can also run Scarf to be a decent revenge killer still against offense, as it has a powerful Draco Meteor to hurt a lot of faster Pokemon. Even better is its typing and ability, which give Hydreigon a good set of resistances to come in on and force switches with. It can come in on threats like Krookodile, Shaymin, and Raikou, which only sweetens the deal to using this thing. Definitely an S Rank Pokemon.

->S Suicune is pretty great right now, especially with Slowbro gone. Suicune is literally the greatest bulky sweeper. CroCune is incredible right now, as Suicine's impressive bulk means it has an easy time nabbing a lot of CM boosts, and it is a very durable Pokemon on both sides, while RestTalk and Pressure make it even more annoying. Suicune sets up on a lot, and after a number of CM boosts, Suicune's Scald will sting quite a bit, not to mention that lovely burn chance. A very good Pokemon that is a very high level threat, so much that it'll take something like a Grass or Electric type moves to take it down.

->A- Machamp is good. Guts Machamp is very scary, and its Close Combat hits super freaking hard, plus coverage in Knock Off and Stone Edge give it some real sting. Bullet Punch is okay priority too. It can easily take advantage of status and do a lot of damage. No Guard DynamicPunch is also still as fun as ever, and a strong DynamicPunch with a 100% confuse rate is annoying and not easy to switch into. It also has passable bulk, unlike Mienshao, Infernape, and Lucario, which is cool, and unlike Cobalion and Virizion this thing hits hard right off the bat. Only problem is it has a little competition and is quite slow, but it's a very threatening Pokemon nonetheless.

->A- No competition from Victini means these two can really shine. And honestly, Entei and Darmanitan are monsters. Entei has a powerful Sacred Fire with a high burn chance which makes it quite fearsome, and very few things can reliably switch into it, those can can endure a Sacred Fire risk getting burned, which makes Entei quite a fearsome Pokemon especially with a CB. ExtremeSpeed is also awesome priority which allows Entei to serve as a nice revenge killer against frailer Pokemon like Mienshao. Darmanitan has incredible power behind its Flare Blitz, and with a Life Orb that Flare Blitz steamrolls through everything that isn't named Alomomola, Suicune, or Swampert. Superpower, Rock Slide, and U-turn are all nice bonuses, the latter being useful to nab momentum. Scarf is also great and allows Darmanitan to perform fantastically against offense.

->B Goodra is a very good offensive support Pokemon, C is an embarrassment to it and its capabilities. Goodra can take on quite a few Pokemon in this meta like Chandelure, Blastoise, Ampharos (takes Dragon Pulse by virtue of that stupid bulk), Nidos, Shaymin, Roserade, and Raikou. Heck, it can even function as an emergency Hydreigon check if the dire need arises. It has a wide offensive movepool and solid offensive presence to use, so it can always give a punch back in return after sponging hits from several Pokemon. It has two awesome abilities, Sap Sipper is nice to switch into Seed Flare (something not many Pokemon can lay claim to), Sleep Powder, etc. Gooey is also awesome to drop Speed of physical attackers, which is clutch. Not being able to heal itself kind of sucks, and it's sort of weak, but it's a pretty good mon nonetheless.

->B+ Yeah agreeing with King UU. These three are good and have solid niches but are not that splashable, they do require being slotted into a specific team to work well, plus they have their own issues. He explained it quite well so I won't reiterate.

->At least C (maybe higher) Yeah this thing is definitely viable. SD is a pretty good set, and Kabutops can sweep pretty decently with a +2 Aqua Jet and a Stone Edge that hits hard. It has a nice typing to come in on Flare Blitzes from Darmanitan and Brave Bird from Crobat, among others, and Weak Armor is a clutch ability. It's a nice sweeper overall. It can also use Rapid Spin which is pretty cool, it kinda does meh against Sableye, but it owns Chandelure, and it's one of the few offensive spinners in UU other than Mega Blastoise. Idk where it should be but it definitely deserves a ranking.

Blissey is okay where it is btw, it's a nice special wall but it's really passive and doesn't really fit onto every team. The fact that it's just sitting there just kinda kills it and somewhat limits its use.

Long wall of text but whatever lol.
 
Why is milotic in C rank? I've used it in UU and with great HP and access to mirror coat, it can take out most specially based pokemon pretty easily. Shouldn't it be in a higher rank?
 
How does one use a special lucario? It's SD set alone is enough to make it S rank so how does the NP set rank up? I have very little experience with special lucario in UU but in OU the SD set is the far superior set. It's too slow and frail to really shine with NP and its special priority is weak even with STAB, so why do I see people mentioning NP? Surely in UU the SD set is better 99% of the time? Extreme speed almost makes lucario the beast that it is, patching up that underwhelming speed and having very respectable power allowing it so pull of the SD set so well. Vacuum wave is shit in comparison.

I'm just curious because I've seen several people bring up the NP set in their arguments to keep lucario at S rank and it confused me as to why. I always thought the NP set was pretty bad when compared to the SD set?
 

Meru

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I agree with every single nom made by ScraftyIsTheBest and I'm going to say even Mega Ampharos should go to S. It has become the premier bulky water breaker and unlike Grass-types, it doesn't give free turns to Blissey and it doesn't die to the Fast Flyers. Every Ground-type except Gastrodon and SpDef Hippo gets 2HKO'd by Dragon Pulse and thanks to Rest Talk, it's easily able to become a win condition in the end once everything that can 2HKO it is removed (which it helps assist in doing)
 
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