Other Mega Doppelgangers

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Mega Doppelgangers
Approved by Haunter

Hi everyone!

I was going through some Rate My Teams the other day, and I saw something that I see just a little too often:

Manectric @ Manectite

Heracross @ Heracronite

Now, we all know that you can only use one Mega per battle, regardless of how many Mega stones you have on your team. “But they perform different roles!” They proclaim in the analysis. “I can use one in one battle and one the next!” This, however leads to the not-used Mega stone becoming deadweight. Regular Manectric sucks, and regular Heracross is useless without a Choice Scarf. The follow-up issue is they don’t know what to replace them with. That’s where this thread comes in. In this thread, the goal is to create Mega Doppelgangers! Ideally sets posted here (by you guys) will be able to function in a similar manner to the Mega they are replacing. Of course Mega Manectric is a better Volt Switch pivot than Raikou, but they both take on BirdSpam relatively well and sport above average speed tiers and Electric STAB. The downside is that you lose out on Intimidate and Flamethrower, and you also lose some speed. However, using Raikou frees your Mega slot for something that is potentially more useful to the team and gives you 70 to 80 percent of what Mega Manectric gives you.

The replacement Pokemon ideally will share some trait that the Mega they will be replacing has, whether that’s checking similar threats, having a ridiculous physical or special STAB of the same type, punching holes in the same stall members or overall just acting similar. Another way to think about it is to make a ‘mini-” or “lite” version of the Mega in question. Now, the Pokemon in this topic most likely won’t have the same level of absurd power that the Megas possess. What they hopefully do possess is the ability to fill a similar role or place on your team without the need to replace multiple members or rework your whole team. Your team may not function as well as before. The doppelganger could also fit into your team and allow your team to continue running smoothly. There is an opportunity cost to using Amoongus over Mega Venusaur. You lose the general bulk of Mega Venu, but you gain that precious Mega slot back and the ability to check some of the same things.

So as far as sets go, something like this would be preferred:

· Name of Pokemon

· What Mega it fills in for

· Moveset (preferably a direct importable)

· Short Paragraph explaining what it does

Name: Raikou

Replaces: Mega Manectric

Moveset:
Raikou @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Extrasensory

Explanation: Handles BirdSpam to a similar degree as Mega Manectric, Extrasensory allows it to get past Mega Venu, and it still has access to Volt Switch. It also outspeeds much of the unboosted and non-Scarfed Meta, although not to the same degree Mega Manectric does. Also, does not have access to Intimidate, making it a shakier check to BirdSpam. Lack of Fire attacks makes getting through some bulkier Steels more difficult, particularly Ferrothorn and Excadrill.

Some more info on the last part, mention what role it does similarly, but most importantly, things it doesn’t do as well as said Mega. Going back to the Mega Manectric-Raikou example, the paragraph would in theory state that Raikou is also a good check to BirdSpam, but cannot hit Ferrothorn easily due to a lack of Flamethrower. Obviously there’s more differences than that, but it was just a small example.

List of Analysis:

Name: Thundurus-T
Replaces: Mega Ampharos

Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 104 HP / 252 SpA / 152 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast
- Agility

This set specifically fills in for Amphy's Agility set. The main benefit to using that set on Ampharos is that it is a speed-boosting sweeper immune to paralysis and resists Flying-type, making it a Pokemon not covered by the panic button priority Thundurus-I and Talonflame have to deal with fast sweepers. Because Thundurus-T has higher base speed, it is even harder to be revenge killed after a boost - it outspeeds sand Excadrill (and can OHKO even 252 HP Excadrill with itemless Focus Blast), rain Kingdra, and scarf Keldeo/Terrakion. It also has a ground immunity which can prove to be a valuable asset for setting up. For its item, taking Life Orb damage after Stealth Rock can quickly bring it down into Talonflame range anyway, so Expert Belt and Leftovers are very good choices. Expert Belt guarantees the OHKO after rocks on Thundurus-I with HP Ice where itemless Thunderbolt is a range, and Leftovers can help tank a sequence of priority that hopes to finish you off, or take time to heal up after rocks to live a LO Bisharp Sucker Punch (89% max). As for moves, Thundurus-T can also take advantage of HP Flying and Grass Knot for opponents such as Mega Heracross and Quagsire on bulkier teams, but prefers the coverage above for cleaning offense-oriented teams.


Name: Starmie

Replaces: Mega Blastoise

Moveset:
Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 32 Def / 4 SAtk / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
- Reflect Type
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Recover

Explanation: Both bulky water-type rapid spinners, one with more firepower and bulk and one with much more speed, longevity and utility. Both decent options for spinners depending on the team.


Name: Victini
Replaces: Mega Charizard Y
Moveset: Victini @ Life Orb
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest / Rash / Mild Nature
- Blue Flare / V-Create
- Focus Blast
- Thunder
- Glaciate / Psychic

Explanation: Weaker Mega Charizard Y with the same speed tier and without reliable recovery. However, Victini does have better coverage, a good secondary effect on its main STAB (20% chance to burn), better accuracy overall, and the ability to go mixed, which means that it's actually harder to wall, though it needs more prediction because of a weaker main STAB. Also, Victini is not 4x weak to SR, which kinda makes up for its lack of reliable recovery and the recoil from Life Orb. Victini also checks many of the Pokemon that Mega Charizard Y does, such as non-CM Clefable, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Scizor, and Mew.


Name: Sylveon
Replaces: Mega Gardevoir
Moveset: Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 244 HP / 252 SpA / 12 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ground
- Baton Pass

Explanation: A slower and choice locked Mega Gardevoir with worse coverage. However, Sylveon has way better bulk, especially considering how it can afford to invest in it, and around 20% more power than Timid Mega Gardevoir, meaning it can check more Pokemon, such as Greninja and LO Thunurus, while also needing less prediction thanks to the extra power, and is able to act as a slow pivot with Baton Pass.


Name: Gyarados
Replaces: M-Gyarados
Moveset: M-Gyarados @ leftovers/life orb/lum berry
Ability: Moxie
Evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Hp
Jolly nature
-Waterfall
-Dragon Dance
-Bounce
-Earthquake
Explanation: Gyarados makes just as good a sweeper as its' mega form, having the same speed stat, and an attack stat high enough to not notice a difference due to one of its advantages over its mega: Moxie. With Moxie, as long as Gyarados secures one kill, it can break apart teams without needing extra set-up, as one Dragon Dance is usually all it takes. Gyarados secures just about the same kills as M-Gyarados, with the only exception I can think of being Rotom-W. Another advantage is its freedom of item, being able to have soft recovery through Leftovers, extra power through lo, or 1 time immunity to status via lum, making it much more versatile. And its last advantage is its ability to viably use both its stabs, something M-Gyarados doesn't quite pull off, losing important coverage. Bounce also allows Gyarados to deal with M-Venusaur, a large pain in the back for its mega.
As for the disadvantages, the loss of initial power can prevent Gyarados from securing some important KO's if it doesn't get the chance to set up, and the devasting 4x weakness to electric puts it back a fair few notches. Additionally, M-Gyarados has more bulk, giving it more survivability, and an easier time setting up.
Normal Gyarados may not be quite as effective as its Mega, but if one is looking for a physical sweeper or breaker, and is hard-pressed for a mega slot, Gyarados can still be used over its mega, and thus making a very convincing doppelganger for M-Gyarados.


Diggersby@Life Orb/Focus Sash
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 Def
Adamant Nature/Jolly Nature
-Return
-Earthquake
-Quick Attack
-Swords Dance

Explaination:
Despite their very different typing (Normal-Ground compared to Bug-Fighting and Bug-Flying) I find Diggersby being very similar to Heracross and Pinsir; actually the middle guy beetween the two, being not super fast and able to get in and out multiple times because of lack of severe hazards weakness like Heracross, but with more similar coverage to that of Pinsir, as well as access to priority. What does Diggersby miss on is the nice bulk of both, expecially Heracross, and the good speed of Pinsir, forcing it to rely on Quick Attack more than it would like. However, it does have the advantage of wrecking Thundurus and Electrics in general, as well as the niche Doublade and Rhyperior, making it not only a very good substitute to Pinsir for teams that are plagued by these mons, but also a very good partner to the flying beetle.


Diggersby@Life Orb/Focus Sash
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 Def
Adamant Nature/Jolly Nature
-Return
-Earthquake
-Quick Attack
-Swords Dance

Explaination:
Despite their very different typing (Normal-Ground compared to Bug-Fighting and Bug-Flying) I find Diggersby being very similar to Heracross and Pinsir; actually the middle guy beetween the two, being not super fast and able to get in and out multiple times because of lack of severe hazards weakness like Heracross, but with more similar coverage to that of Pinsir, as well as access to priority. What does Diggersby miss on is the nice bulk of both, expecially Heracross, and the good speed of Pinsir, forcing it to rely on Quick Attack more than it would like. However, it does have the advantage of wrecking Thundurus and Electrics in general, as well as the niche Doublade and Rhyperior, making it not only a very good substitute to Pinsir for teams that are plagued by these mons, but also a very good partner to the flying beetle.


Name: Raikou
Replaces: Mega Manectric
Moveset: Raikou @ Expert Belt
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Rash Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Aura Sphere
- Hidden Power Ice
- Extrasensory/Thunderbolt

Explanation:

Just like Mega-Mane, Raikou comes in and gains momentum with volt switch, revenge kills birdspam, and dosen't care about Thundurus. Expert belt powers up your HP Ice and turns the Landos, Garchomp, Gliscor and other grounds not named Hippowdon into OHKO's. It also lets you OHKO non-av Mamoswine after SR with Aura Sphere. The EV's speed creep adamant Tflame by 1 with the rest in HP for bulk.

Onto the moveset. Volt switch is your go-to momentum gainer. Aura sphere 2HKO's Tyranitar and also hurts Mamoswine and Excadrill who are the only grounds that don't care about HP Ice. HP Ice is important since it lets you safely spam volt switch, considering that you can cleanly OHKO heaps of common grounds that try to nab a free switch. Extrasensory or thunderbolt is preference, the former 2HKO's Venusaur after rocks and the latter is a stronger STAB that dosen't switch you out.

TLDR

The same:
- Checks birdspam
- Gains momentum, racks up chip damage
- Dosen't care about many grounds, Thundy
- Roughly the same SpA with expert belt
- Beats many defoggers/rapid spinners

Worse:
- Has lower speed
- Dosen't outspeed Greninja or Jolly Tflame
- Dosen't beat Scizor
- No OHKO on Excadrill
- No Intimidate

Better:
- Can 2HKO Venusaur + Ttar
- OHKO's Mamo after SR

Raikou @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 32 SpD / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Extrasensory
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Advantages over Mega Manectric:
- can actually switch into Thundurus as LO focus blast does 33.6 - 39.5% and thunderbolt does roughly 20%, while Mega Manectric is 2HKO'd by thunderbolt after SR and almost OHKO'd by focus blast;
- can check Greninja and other special attackers thanks to its respectable SpD and assault vest (LO hydro pump from Greninja does 47% at most). Ironically, it hard counters Mega Manectric;
- can do up to 45% to non SpD Venusaur with extrasensory, which means it can easily wear down a weakened Venusaur;
- you can save your mega slot for something else.

Disadvantages over Mega Manectric:
- pressure is a pretty useless ability and doesn't really help AV Raikou, while intimidate is great for switching into stuff like M-Scizor;
- lack of fire moves means that Raikou loses against Ferrothorn and Excadrill while M-Man has flamthrower/overheat;
- Manectric is faster and has better SpA, although Raikou is fast enough to outspeed most OU special attackers anyway (with the exception of Greninja and Alakazam).

*TC’s note: Raikou must be Rash and Shiny to use Aura Sphere due to event distribution


Name: Scizor

Replaces: Mega Scizor

Moveset:
Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Superpower / Bug Bite
- Roost

Explanation: Both have high ATK and abuse a powerful bullet punch. Scizor and Mega Scizor both have good defensive typing, and can abuse bulk and the combination of Swords Dance and recovery to pressure or sweep. Scizor lacks bulk, but can lessen the effect of passive damage with Leftovers. Scizor does an even better job imitating Mega Scizor's non-setup sets thanks to the boosts it an grab from CB or AV.


Name: Tyranitar

Replaces: Mega Tyranitar

Moveset:
Tyranitar @Resitance Berry
Ability: Sandstream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Explanation: Tyranitar is bulky, powerful, has Dragon Dance, and Sandstream, all of which makes it very similar to mega TTar. They also have very similar typing and movepools. Tyranitar lacks Speed, physical bulk, and and power, but a one time resistance berry could be clutch, and this is the closest you'll get anyway. TTar pulls off imitations of mega ttar's SR and full attacking sets even better.


Name: Amoonguss

Replaces: Mega Venusaur

Moveset:
Amoonguss Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4SpD
Bold nature
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Foul Play / Hidden Power Fire / Sludge Bomb
- Stun Spore / Clear Smog

Explanation: Amoonguss have a lot of things in common with Mega Venusaur, they share typing, both are physically bulky, and Amoonguss does almost have acces to the same moves as Venusaur.
Spore is there to put a pokemon to sleep, and is one of the reasons Amoonguss is a good option, Giga Drain is there as a STAB attck that can heal you a bit. The last two moves are up to you and what your team need.

Amoongus has a 100% accurate sleep move, Regenerator, Clear Smog, and passive healing without wasting a moveslot, but Venusaur has better overall stats, can actually do much damage, and of course 2 less weaknesses because of Thick Fat.


That’s about it, I hope that all makes sense. Eventually the OP will be updated as sets accumulate, and if things need to be cleared up. I’ll let you guys take it from here and we will see what you guys can come up with!
 
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Deleted User 241617

Banned deucer.
I guess I'll start with a fairly obvious one

Name: Amoonguss

Replaces: Mega Venusaur

Moveset:
Amoonguss Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4SpD
Bold nature
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Foul Play / Hidden Power Fire / Sludge Bomb
- Stun Spore / Clear Smog

Explanation: Amoonguss have a lot of things in common with Mega Venusaur, they share typing, both are physically bulky, and Amoonguss does almost have acces to the same moves as Venusaur.
Spore is there to put a pokemon to sleep, and is one of the reasons Amoonguss is a good option, Giga Drain is there as a STAB attck that can heal you a bit. The last two moves are up to you and what your team need.

Amoongus has a 100% accurate sleep move, Regenerator, Clear Smog, and passive healing without wasting a moveslot, but Venusaur has better overall stats, can actually do much damage, and of course 2 less weaknesses because of Thick Fat.
 


Name:
Victini

Replaces: Mega Medicham

Moveset:
Victini @ Choice Band
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Brick Break / Zen Headbutt
- U-turn

Explanation: Due to its insane power, Mega Medicham is a very difficult pokemon to replace on a team, however one pokemon that can match it in power is Victini. Victini's Choice Banded V-create actually outdamages Mega Medicham's High Jump Kick, and as long as the opponent lacks Heatran, then the move can be fairly freely spammed without worrying about the 50% damage from missing. Mega Medicham and Choice Banded Victini are both pure wallbreakers, who are very difficult to switch into, but easy to revenge kill, as Mega Medicham is very frail and V-create's speed and defense drops allow Victini to be revenged killed by pokemon at a lower speed tier. Victini lacks Mega Medicham's ability to pick off weakened faster pokemon with priority moves (Fake Out and/or Bullet Punch), is weak to, instead of resistant to Stealth Rock, has trouble with Dragon- type pokemon, and thanks to V-create's speed drop, is more easily forced out than Mega Medicham. Mega Medicham does however have some positives over Victini, including a better defensive typing with far greater bulk, a much wider and more unpredictable movepool, including the possibility of running mixed sets, a better matchup against Psychic- and Fairy- types, more accurate, and hence reliable attacks, and the ability to pivot with U-Turn.
 
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I don't think Victini is a fair comparison with Medicham. A more direct comparison would be Mienshao, who actually got a thread on this subforum for his HJK.
Hmm, that would be a better direct comparison, but I'd argue that Victini is a better + more diverse pokemon overall in OU. It'd come down to the needs of the individual team, but I think Victini would generally be (one) of the stronger choices to substitute for Mega Medicham as a pure wallbreaker, while Reckless Mienshao would be a more specific substitution, if the team would benefit more from High Jump Kick.
 
Name: Landorus-Incarnate

Replaces: Mega Charizard-Y

Moveset:


Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- Focus Blast

Explanation: Despite these two actually synergizing decently well, if you find yourself needing a Special Wallbreaker, look no further than CM Lando. This thing is such a good wall breaker, that it has the power to shut down entire stall teams (granted--Lando-I has centralized the defensive metagame to a similar degree that Aegislash did to offense). I would actually argue that Lando-I is better at this than Charizard-Y (just look at the Viability Rankings…). After a CM boost, this thing can take down Chansey. Additionally, the only accuracy problems you'll ever have with CM Lando is Focus Miss on the few things that absolutely need to be covered (SkarmChans immediately pops to mind).
 

alexwolf

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Victini and Mega Medicham aren't really comparable other than both being physical wallbreakers. They have many different checks and counters (Mega Medicham is countered by Cresselia and Mew, Victini is checked by Quagsire, Tyranitar, Heatran, and Mega Charizard X), different teammates, and even different in how they are played. Victini is a Pursuit and SR weak Pokemon locked into a single move, which usually has severe drawbacks, while Mega Medicham resists SR, is neutral to Pursuit, and even has priority, so it needs way less support.

As someone above me already said, Reckless Mienshao is a better comparison to Mega Medicham, as Mienshao is basically a mini Mega Medicham. It hits a bit less harder but it can outspeed base 100s, Garchomp, and Landorus, and in general has the same checks and counters as Mega Medicham and is played in the same way, being frail as shit and needing VoltTurn support to safely get in.

Landorus and Mega Char Y are not good comparisons too, just because they are special wallbreakers doesn't mean they do the same job.
 
Name: Starmie

Replaces: Mega Blastoise

Moveset:
Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 32 Def / 4 SAtk / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
- Reflect Type
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Recover

Explanation: Both bulky water-type rapid spinners, one with more firepower and bulk and one with much more speed, longevity and utility. Both decent options for spinners depending on the team.
 

Heracross@Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
Adamant Nature
-Pin Missile
-Close Combat
-Rock Blast
-Swords Dance​

Pinsir@Pinsirite
Ability: Moxie/Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 Def
Jolly Nature
-Return
-Close Combat/Earthquake
-Quick Attack
-Swords Dance
Replace with:


Diggersby@Life Orb/Focus Sash
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 Def
Adamant Nature/Jolly Nature
-Return
-Earthquake
-Quick Attack
-Swords Dance

Explaination:
Despite their very different typing (Normal-Ground compared to Bug-Fighting and Bug-Flying) I find Diggersby being very similar to Heracross and Pinsir; actually the middle guy beetween the two, being not super fast and able to get in and out multiple times because of lack of severe hazards weakness like Heracross, but with more similar coverage to that of Pinsir, as well as access to priority. What does Diggersby miss on is the nice bulk of both, expecially Heracross, and the good speed of Pinsir, forcing it to rely on Quick Attack more than it would like. However, it does have the advantage of wrecking Thundurus and Electrics in general, as well as the niche Doublade and Rhyperior, making it not only a very good substitute to Pinsir for teams that are plagued by these mons, but also a very good partner to the flying beetle.
 
Landorus and Mega Char Y are not good comparisons too, just because they are special wallbreakers doesn't mean they do the same job.
Alright, I'll defend my post. Saying two things share roles, yet don't do the same job sounds kinda oxymoronic to me, but whatever. Just because they don't share typing and Lando requires an extra turn of setup to reach maximum potential doesn't mean they're not comparable. For the most part, Lando actually outclasses Zard-Y as a wallbreaker. He's got better power (at the cost of one turn of setup), better coverage, and better speed. I'm actually struggling to think of anything Zard-Y takes better that constitutes a separate job accomplished. You primarily see Special Walls on Stall or Balance teams; Lando carries more weight against them. Sure--it has less immediate power, but any offensive switch-in is still crushed or severely hurt by anything Lando can dish out (save lati@s, and--spoiler alert--Zard Y ain't doin much to those either).
Regardless, they absolutely share a job--breaking down defensive shit and being ridiculously hard to switch into.
 

alexwolf

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Specially based wallbreaker is a pretty big category, you need to break it down even further if you want to find a true replacement for Char Y. Landorus is put on teams because it hits hard, needs almost zero support, provides an Electric immunity, and because it can threaten with a OHKO a wide array of slower Pokemon, such as Mega Charizard X, Heatran, Clefable, Ferrothorn, etc. Mega Charizard Y is very different outside of being a hard hitter than nukes slower Pokemon. It has great bulk and Roost, meaning it provides a great check to Pokemon such as Landorus, Mew, SR Clefable, Slowbro, Mega Gardevoir, and Mega Scizor, all Pokemon that Landorus can't really switch into. It needs dedicated anti-SR support and teammates that don't give a lot of room to set up SR, otherwise it struggles to shine. Also, Char Y attracts a much more specific array of threats because it's harder to check but easier to counter, so it's easier to guess what is coming in.

In general, even though those two are both special wallbreakers, they fulfill different roles on a team. It's not rare for a team to have both Knock Off Landorus and Mega Charizard Y, so that Chansey is lured and crippled by Landorus. Sometimes one can be used in the place of the other, but not often enough to call Landorus a replacement for Mega Char Y, at least imo.

A closer sub to Mega Chary Y would be special Victini, which has similar coverage with Blue Flare / Focus Blast / Energy Ball, can check more or less the same Pokemon (Mega Scizor, Clefable, Mega Gardevoir, Mew to an extend) due to similar resistances (Fairy, Fighting, Steel) but is weaker and lacks recovery, though it has some other advantages, such as being only 2x weak to SR, having better accuracy on its moves, can get past Mega Char X with LO Psychic, and can go mixed with V-Create to get past Pokemon such as Latios, Latias (U-turn for those two), Chansey, and Goodra on itself.
 
Name: Starmie

Replaces: Mega Blastoise

Moveset:
Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 32 Def / 4 SAtk / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
- Reflect Type
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Recover

Explanation: Both bulky water-type rapid spinners, one with more firepower and bulk and one with much more speed, longevity and utility. Both decent options for spinners depending on the team.
I had to look up Reflect Type to see what it does... I can see how it could work situationally, but it just seems too gimmicky for me. Just my opinion, but a support move, like a screen or Thunder Wave, may be a better option for that slot.
 
I had to look up Reflect Type to see what it does... I can see how it could work situationally, but it just seems too gimmicky for me. Just my opinion, but a support move, like a screen or Thunder Wave, may be a better option for that slot.
I respect your opinion but your opinion is wrong. It's the exact opposite of a gimmick and is the most viable set Starmie can hope for. Unless you want to auto-lose to Mega Venusaur, Amoonguss, Ferrothorn, Zard-Y, Bisharp, Tyranitar, then Reflect Type is a necessity.
 

Always!

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I had to look up Reflect Type to see what it does... I can see how it could work situationally, but it just seems too gimmicky for me. Just my opinion, but a support move, like a screen or Thunder Wave, may be a better option for that slot.
Reflect type is fantastic, it helps escape the pursuit trap for Bisharp and TTar, and allows you to become much harder to stop it from spinning as it will have a much larger pool of targets to spin safely against.
 
Name: Starmie

Replaces: Mega Blastoise

Moveset:
Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 32 Def / 4 SAtk / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
- Reflect Type
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Recover

Explanation: Both bulky water-type rapid spinners, one with more firepower and bulk and one with much more speed, longevity and utility. Both decent options for spinners depending on the team.
I'd argue this as a bad comparison because their similarities end at water type with access to rapid spin... one that doesn't even keep the water typing long. Blastoise is a tank that gets most of its upside from attacking with fantastic coverage moves (Aura Sphere/DP)+Scald whereas starmie benefits by taking on pursuit trappers by using their typing against them.


Attempting to replace SD Mega Scizor:


Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Crunch
- Extreme Speed

While the elephant in the room is easy to see (The obvious lack of bulk from Lucario), Lucario actually does handle itself very well in the current meta if it can get off the swords dance. Using this, taking on Talonflame, Thundurus and other speedy attackers becomes possible. The cleaning power of extreme speed coupled with a fighting stab that can clear out any switch ins or resists to extreme speed (bar gengar) makes Lucario a fantastic cleaner if you can afford the weakened bulk.
 

alexwolf

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Lucario is nothing like Mega Scizor, their only common trait is both being SD priority sweepers. However, Mega Scizor has actual bulk and Roost, so it provides defensive synergy and can fit on teams not called hyper offense, which Lucario can't. Honestly, they don't even compete for the same teamslot, as even in HO teams you would want to use them together, as they lure and weaken each other's counters.

As for my own contributions:

Name: Victini
Replaces: Mega Charizard Y
Moveset: Victini @ Life Orb
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest / Rash / Mild Nature
- Blue Flare / V-Create
- Focus Blast
- Thunder
- Glaciate / Psychic

Explanation: Weaker Mega Charizard Y with the same speed tier and without reliable recovery. However, Victini does have better coverage, a good secondary effect on its main STAB (20% chance to burn), better accuracy overall, and the ability to go mixed, which means that it's actually harder to wall, though it needs more prediction because of a weaker main STAB. Also, Victini is not 4x weak to SR, which kinda makes up for its lack of reliable recovery and the recoil from Life Orb. Victini also checks many of the Pokemon that Mega Charizard Y does, such as non-CM Clefable, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Scizor, and Mew.

Name: Sylveon
Replaces: Mega Gardevoir
Moveset: Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 244 HP / 252 SpA / 12 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ground
- Baton Pass

Explanation: A slower and choice locked Mega Gardevoir with worse coverage. However, Sylveon has way better bulk, especially considering how it can afford to invest in it, and around 20% more power than Timid Mega Gardevoir, meaning it can check more Pokemon, such as Greninja and LO Thunurus, while also needing less prediction thanks to the extra power, and is able to act as a slow pivot with Baton Pass.
 
Specially based wallbreaker is a pretty big category, you need to break it down even further if you want to find a true replacement for Char Y. Landorus is put on teams because it hits hard, needs almost zero support, provides an Electric immunity, and because it can threaten with a OHKO a wide array of slower Pokemon, such as Mega Charizard X, Heatran, Clefable, Ferrothorn, etc. Mega Charizard Y is very different outside of being a hard hitter than nukes slower Pokemon. It has great bulk and Roost, meaning it provides a great check to Pokemon such as Landorus, Mew, SR Clefable, Slowbro, Mega Gardevoir, and Mega Scizor, all Pokemon that Landorus can't really switch into. It needs dedicated anti-SR support and teammates that don't give a lot of room to set up SR, otherwise it struggles to shine. Also, Char Y attracts a much more specific array of threats because it's harder to check but easier to counter, so it's easier to guess what is coming in.

In general, even though those two are both special wallbreakers, they fulfill different roles on a team. It's not rare for a team to have both Knock Off Landorus and Mega Charizard Y, so that Chansey is lured and crippled by Landorus. Sometimes one can be used in the place of the other, but not often enough to call Landorus a replacement for Mega Char Y, at least imo.

A closer sub to Mega Chary Y would be special Victini, which has similar coverage with Blue Flare / Focus Blast / Energy Ball, can check more or less the same Pokemon (Mega Scizor, Clefable, Mega Gardevoir, Mew to an extend) due to similar resistances (Fairy, Fighting, Steel) but is weaker and lacks recovery, though it has some other advantages, such as being only 2x weak to SR, having better accuracy on its moves, can get past Mega Char X with LO Psychic, and can go mixed with V-Create to get past Pokemon such as Latios, Latias (U-turn for those two), Chansey, and Goodra on itself.
Maybe I'm more confusing the goal of this thread with the Role-Comparison thread, so I'll concede this to you (as you do bring up some good points). I guess really the only thing that's overly important is the typing, tbh; what sets the two apart is Charizard's ability to better switch into certain threats. I was mainly operating under the assumption that both were being used against a Stall or Balance team--given that those teams are mostly the ones using special walls, and the role of the mon in question was to effectively break down a defensive core--in which case I would argue more for their comparability (especially against stall). against offensive teams, however, I can see that Charizard fulfills a separate wall breaking niche.
 

Chou Toshio

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To be honest, I do not like where this thread is going... This threads concept relies on the priciple that the specific role/concept of a mega Evo is important in what makes a Mega Evo but this is not at all the case-- in fact for many the exact opposite is true, and that the specific role/concept of the Pokemon is pretty crappy, and the mega Evo is only viable because it itself is ridiculous.

The OP provides a terrific example, as "fast special sweeper mono electric" proves itself to be a terrible role/concept, with Jolteon and Raikou (while having minor niche uses) are decidedly underwhelming in the last 2-3 generations.

In which case, there's no real value in trying to emulate the role of the specific mega. All this thread has managed to do is throw completely irrelevant highlights on Pokemon that don't at all deserve it and are decisively unviable (Haxorus and Mienshao) and incite pointless argument about the competitively irrelevant topic of how subjectively similar/dissimilar pokes A and B are when a real player will consider them individually.

Despite these faults, we'll see how it goes with this thread-- so long as it works on improving. I'll even pitch in my offering some brilliant contributions.

Name: Scizor

Replaces: Mega Scizor

Moveset:
Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Superpower / Bug Bite
- Roost

Explanation: Both have high ATK and abuse a powerful bullet punch. Scizor and Mega Scizor both have good defensive typing, and can abuse bulk and the combination of Swords Dance and recovery to pressure or sweep. Scizor lacks bulk, but can lessen the effect of passive damage with Leftovers. Scizor does an even better job imitating Mega Scizor's non-setup sets thanks to the boosts it an grab from CB or AV.


Name: Tyranitar

Replaces: Mega Tyranitar

Moveset:
Tyranitar @Resitance Berry
Ability: Sandstream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Explanation: Tyranitar is bulky, powerful, has Dragon Dance, and Sandstream, all of which makes it very similar to mega TTar. They also have very similar typing and movepools. Tyranitar lacks Speed, physical bulk, and and power, but a one time resistance berry could be clutch, and this is the closest you'll get anyway. TTar pulls off imitations of mega ttar's SR and full attacking sets even better.
 
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If enough people think this thread leads to pointless or unproductive discussion, we can consider closing this thread or letting it die. I thought it was worth a shot to see if enough could accumulate to make it worthwhile. If it can't, oh well it was worth a shot.
 
The problem is that there's only a finite number of Megas in OU, and a lot of them do things that nothing else can comparably do. We'll probably end up with like 4 good answers.
 
Yeah, good point. Probably better to drop this for a while until there are more OU viable Megas. Maybe give it another try after ORAS. Can someone lock this?
 

alexwolf

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To be honest, I do not like where this thread is going... This threads concept relies on the priciple that the specific role/concept of a mega Evo is important in what makes a Mega Evo but this is not at all the case-- in fact for many the exact opposite is true, and that the specific role/concept of the Pokemon is pretty crappy, and the mega Evo is only viable because it itself is ridiculous.

The OP provides a terrific example, as "fast special sweeper mono electric" proves itself to be a terrible role/concept, with Jolteon and Raikou (while having minor niche uses) are decidedly underwhelming in the last 2-3 generations.

In which case, there's no real value in trying to emulate the role of the specific mega. All this thread has managed to do is throw completely irrelevant highlights on Pokemon that don't at all deserve it and are decisively unviable (Haxorus and Mienshao) and incite pointless argument about the competitively irrelevant topic of how subjectively similar/dissimilar pokes A and B are when a real player will consider them individually.
Fast Electric-type is a terrible role? It's almost a must for offensive teams to check birdspam and Thundurus, as there are no good self reliant offensive Rock and Steel-types, other than Mega Aerodactyl and Scarf Tyranitar, both of which have serious limitations, the first because it occupies your Mega slot and the second because it is choice locked. So on offensive teams that already have a Mega Evolution, Raikou is a really good replacement for Mega Manectric.

And even if some of those replacements are niche, like Mienshao for Mega Medicham, why is this is problem. In many cases, for example Mega Manectric / Raikou, Mega Venusaur / Amoonguss, and Mega Charizard Y / Victini, there is a point in trying to emulate the role of the MEvo, because this role is great in the metagame(fast electric type, bulky Grass / Poison type, specially based Fire-type wallbreaker) and you can only use one MEvo on your team. Whether or not all the popular MEvo's roles need or have replacenemnts is up for us to find out.

I don't think you should lock this Celticpride034, but it's up to you.
 

Chou Toshio

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Fast Electric-type is a terrible role? It's almost a must for offensive teams to check birdspam and Thundurus, as there are no good self reliant offensive Rock and Steel-types, other than Mega Aerodactyl and Scarf Tyranitar, both of which have serious limitations, the first because it occupies your Mega slot and the second because it is choice locked. So on offensive teams that already have a Mega Evolution, Raikou is a really good replacement for Mega Manectric.
I'm aware of Raikou's usefulness on an offensive team, and its effective use on some teams made by top players-- but by no means is it "great", or a top dog of the meta. Also I didn't say "fast electric", but "fast mono electric", because Electric/Flying and Electric/Water obviously come with fantastic defensive merits, and there's reason why THUNDURUS is the top dog of the electric meta, and Raikou/Jolteon are overall good/barely-good mons suffering from poor coverage.

Raikou's physical bulk makes it a pretty flimsy switch-in to Brave Bird spam...

And even if some of those replacements are niche, like Mienshao for Mega Medicham, why is this is problem. In many cases, for example Mega Manectric / Raikou, Mega Venusaur / Amoonguss, and Mega Charizard Y / Victini, there is a point in trying to emulate the role of the MEvo, because this role is great in the metagame(fast electric type, bulky Grass / Poison type, specially based Fire-type wallbreaker) and you can only use one MEvo on your team. Whether or not all the popular MEvo's roles need or have replacenemnts is up for us to find out.

I don't think you should lock this Celticpride034, but it's up to you.
I didn't say there wasn't merit-- if I thought there was absolutely NO merit, I would have locked the thread. However, it's true that as mods we should be concerned if a thread fosters a mistaken or sub-optimal approach to competitive Pokemon; ie. seeing Pokemon for loosely defined roles instead of considering the specific Pokemon, because no matter how "similar" each is distinctly different, and needs to be considered for what it actually is.

I'm not saying there's no merit in volunteering up alternatives, but I think what I said needs consideration-- the thread needs to be careful NOT to mistaken a Mega-mons merit for its role, but for everything it offers, and it needs to not lead to trivial discussions about how similar/dissimilar Landorus-I is to Char-Y, when as you said in your own argument, the two are distinctly different Pokemon that need to be considered differently.

Haxorus and Mega Gyarados are definitely very different mons, and only one of these really needs to be considered at all.

Also Alex, weren't you the one who locked the mienshao thread? Or did it re-open without my awareness?


In any case, I do think this can be an insightful topic-- but needs to keep all of this in perspective. It's just for reference. At the end of the day, a Mega Venusaur is a Mega Venusaur, and an Amoongus isn't.
 
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I am going to retool the OP later today. I understand that at the end of the day Mega Venusaur is what it is and that Amoongus is never going to be Mega Venusaur. However, when I initially thought up the idea for this thread, the idea was that while Mega Venu is by far superior, Amoongus can check some of the bigger threats it covers in similar fashion. If your team is using Mega Venusaur specifically for those two threats (Keldeo and Azu), you can use Amoongus to free up the Mega slot for something else. But, as I said earlier, I'm going to rewrite the OP later today and try and clear some things up.
 
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