New Megas in OR/AS

[Electrolyte]

Gallade is actually supposed to get faster and more powerful*, which is sad because its useless ability takes away any chance of greater viability stat boosts can give it and it can't even be used in Trick Room. I guess Inner Focus would be good against Fake Out, but Fake Out users can just target the other Pokemon / being immune to Fake Out doesn't necessarily make you good unless you can accomplish something very significant in that one turn, which Gallade's movepool doesn't really enable at this point. If it's fast / bulky enough, it might be able to check Mega Kangaskhan / Musketeers, but not necessarily in such an efficient manner that it warrants the Mega slot. Its ability is just so bad ~.~

(And wow I know now that Sharpedo doesn't get Swords Dance but I also thought it did until someone showed me otherwise 9.9 Didn't know this was a problem other people also had heh)
Sharpedo is also... kind of leaning both sides. It's supposed to get a boost in all of its stats (bar HP, of course) which is kind of annoying since its low defenses aren't going to be significantly more useful unless you boost both by 20+, which uses up 40+ of the alotted 100 BST boost. That said, it could be a very powerful standalone sweeper (I wouldn't use in Rain, though, because Rain needs its Mega for other things) IF it gets a significant Attack stat boost, as, unlike in Singles, it can actually carry Protect and use it effectively in ways besides stalling for boosts. Tough Jaw Crunch is powerful, but don't get ahead of yourselves, kids, as it's only 180 BP, which is quite low for Mega standards (Most common Mega Pokemon in Doubles have STAB moves that top 200 BP in power) Unfortunately, because other stats are going to get a chunk of the BST boost, there isn't much left for Attack.


Mega Camerupt is certainly an interesting candidate for a powerful Trick Room sweeper. However, it does have some limitations. Keep in mind that, while Sheer Force is a great ability, it truly shines in conjuction with Life Orb, which Camerupt cannot carry, thus losing out on a large chunk of power. It will definitely also face a lot of competition from Heatran, which has a much better typing / ability combination, something Camerupt really needs (but doesn't have) if it wants to be an effective Trick Room sweeper. It's also still raped by Rotom-W and pretty much every other bulky Water-type, and can't afford to utilize diversionary tactics such as Substitute because of lack of recovery / Leftovers. Let's see how it turns out, though, as a very high Special Attack stat could make it very threatening with STAB Sheer Force Heat Wave / Earth Power. Pair it with Amoonguss and you have a frightening Trick Room core.


My highest hopes lie in Mega Salamence. It's supposed to get a significant Defense boost, which would pair really well with its pre-evolution Intimidate. It will be hard to counter because it can run so many viable sets, too. Special Mega Salamence + Offensive Heatran seems like a great core: reliable spread spam, great type synergy, many combined resistances immunities, and high amount of bulk; just be sure to weaken Rotom-W


*(All of this information is presented on Serebii.)

 

[lexgamer]

I've having a tough time deciding what to do with mega camerupt. I've been thinking about it, and I feel like it has, HAS to have eruption, I mean, it's a literal volcano on legs now... That said, it loses solid rock and the use of a defensive item, in exchange it has sheer force and is slower, so if your using mega camerupt at all you're probably not using a defensive build. On top of that, thanks to sheer force, a fire blast is stronger than eruption and doesn't weaken with inevitable HP loss... making the fact that it's a volcano less relevant, in my way of thinking.
I guess I'll have to run a special trick room set, and just use eruption over/and fire blast "just cuz" (It does have better accuracy I guess, and isn't that much weaker at full health). Then probably have earth power in their to make use of sheer force more, and, I dunno, protect?

 

[Mizuhime]

I've having a tough time deciding what to do with mega camerupt. I've been thinking about it, and I feel like it has, HAS to have eruption, I mean, it's a literal volcano on legs now... That said, it loses solid rock and the use of a defensive item, in exchange it has sheer force and is slower, so if your using mega camerupt at all you're probably not using a defensive build. On top of that, thanks to sheer force, a fire blast is stronger than eruption and doesn't weaken with inevitable HP loss... making the fact that it's a volcano less relevant, in my way of thinking.
I guess I'll have to run a special trick room set, and just use eruption over/and fire blast "just cuz" (It does have better accuracy I guess, and isn't that much weaker at full health). Then probably have earth power in their to make use of sheer force more, and, I dunno, protect?

It already has eruption

 

[lexgamer]

It already has eruption

Oops, not what I meant, to be clear, I meant "I'll have to have it know Eruption, in my set, on my camerupt, because it's a literal volcano with legs." etc

 

[qsns]

Oops, not what I meant, to be clear, I meant "I'll have to have it know Eruption, in my set, on my camerupt, because it's a literal volcano with legs." etc

i don't run crunch on my garchomp because it's a land shark.

that being said, although eruption strikes fear into the hearts of many, i'd prefer the flexibility of just having the reliable sheer force boosted heat wave. it's gonna hit like a truck anyways and taking advantage of sheer force is nice too. also, i just realized that earth power also gets boosted by SF, so dual STABs + protect + sub or something is going to be a really fearsome attacker that could work like heatran, except it can function much better in trick room. not sure if I'd give up my mega slot for it, but it's sure as hell worth a shot.

 

[Lolk]

Just sayin Mega Camerupt + Amoonguss in TR seems like scary shit

 

[Roxer]

Mega Camerupt looks like the new heatran imo, just without the 4x EQ weakness and a 4x water weakness.

a set with Heat Wave + Earth Power + HP Ice + Protect in TR will be the total shitl

 

[Level 51]

ninetales makes a return just so that mega camerupt can use solar beam to get rid of rotom-w!!!!

 

[Roxer]

ninetales makes a return just so that mega camerupt can use solar beam to get rid of rotom-w!!!!

eeeeh, probably lol Ninetales is still shit. Since it's TR I can Sunny Day cress doing that lol

 

[SomeKidFromJohto]

I'm actually gonna go ahead and say that mega sharpedo probably isn't going to be all that good in the OU metagame. Regardless of what kinds of stat boosts it gets, azumarill is likely going to hard counter it, easily tanking any kind of crunch/ice fang/waterfall sharpedo can muster, and easily OHKOing with play rough. Unless sharpedo gets some new coverage, such as thunder fang/toxic fang, which could both handle azumarill, or SD to boost up to 2HKO range, it's not going to be the crazy threat people are hoping for, or at the very least, it's going to be an extremely well-contained threat as far as the current meta would be concerned. Actually, mega venusaur would be another perfect answer to mega sharpedo, even though it probably couldn't tank 2 crunches so it can't be a counter, it could easily check it with it's great bulk and OHKO with giga drain, restoring any damage sharp could have done. So yeah, to wrap up my point: mega sharpedo is probably going to struggle to excel in the current meta unless it gets some new moves to play with.

EDIT: also, I am super bummed that mega gallade is getting such a worthless ability... it could have been really cool if it got something like adaptability or mold breaker, or heck, even guts! But seriously, inner focus? thanks, trollfreak.

 

[13ulbasaur]

I'm actually gonna go ahead and say that mega sharpedo probably isn't going to be all that good in the OU metagame. Regardless of what kinds of stat boosts it gets, azumarill is likely going to hard counter it, easily tanking any kind of crunch/ice fang/waterfall sharpedo can muster, and easily OHKOing with play rough. Unless sharpedo gets some new coverage, such as thunder fang/toxic fang, which could both handle azumarill, or SD to boost up to 2HKO range, it's not going to be the crazy threat people are hoping for, or at the very least, it's going to be an extremely well-contained threat as far as the current meta would be concerned. Actually, mega venusaur would be another perfect answer to mega sharpedo, even though it probably couldn't tank 2 crunches so it can't be a counter, it could easily check it with it's great bulk and OHKO with giga drain, restoring any damage sharp could have done. So yeah, to wrap up my point: mega sharpedo is probably going to struggle to excel in the current meta unless it gets some new moves to play with.

EDIT: also, I am super bummed that mega gallade is getting such a worthless ability... it could have been really cool if it got something like adaptability or mold breaker, or heck, even guts! But seriously, inner focus? thanks, trollfreak.

i hate arguments that oh x pokemon is hard countered by x pokemon so it's not good.

That's what 5 other Pokemon are for?


Not saying Sharpedo is gonna be god, I think it may be underwhelming personally, just saying that that argument is eh.

Also this is a Doubles thread, not OU.

 

[realiti]

I'm actually gonna go ahead and say that mega sharpedo probably isn't going to be all that good in the OU metagame. Regardless of what kinds of stat boosts it gets, azumarill is likely going to hard counter it, easily tanking any kind of crunch/ice fang/waterfall sharpedo can muster, and easily OHKOing with play rough. Unless sharpedo gets some new coverage, such as thunder fang/toxic fang, which could both handle azumarill, or SD to boost up to 2HKO range, it's not going to be the crazy threat people are hoping for, or at the very least, it's going to be an extremely well-contained threat as far as the current meta would be concerned. Actually, mega venusaur would be another perfect answer to mega sharpedo, even though it probably couldn't tank 2 crunches so it can't be a counter, it could easily check it with it's great bulk and OHKO with giga drain, restoring any damage sharp could have done. So yeah, to wrap up my point: mega sharpedo is probably going to struggle to excel in the current meta unless it gets some new moves to play with.

EDIT: also, I am super bummed that mega gallade is getting such a worthless ability... it could have been really cool if it got something like adaptability or mold breaker, or heck, even guts! But seriously, inner focus? thanks, trollfreak.

Sharpedo isn't as worthless as you may think. It checks a lot of mons with the Speed Boost + Protect combo and after a speedboost massive attack stat and strong jaw sharpedo wrecks souls. If it gets a really high attack stat it can possibly 2HKO its counters. Plus it can destiny bond, it's not as bad as you think

 

[SomeKidFromJohto]

i hate arguments that oh x pokemon is hard countered by x pokemon so it's not good.

That's what 5 other Pokemon are for?


Not saying Sharpedo is gonna be good, I think it may be underwhelming, just saying that that argument is eh.

Also this is a Doubles thread, not OU.

Sharpedo isn't as worthless as you may think. It checks a lot of mons with the Speed Boost + Protect combo and after a speedboost massive attack stat and strong jaw sharpedo wrecks souls. If it gets a really high attack stat it can possibly 2HKO its counters. Plus it can destiny bond, it's not as bad as you think

Hey, I'm just saying that I think it's gonna be a bit lackluster. It certainly has interesting options and could wreck some unprepared teams with the tricks it has at it's disposal, but I think that enough existing pokemon are prepared for it, and will shut it down pretty hard. Azumarill is one of the most widely used pokemon in any metagame it's a part of, and it completely makes sharpedo worthless, tanking everything it currently has and OHKOing it from here to the moon with play rough. And the fact that such a popular pokemon is a surefire counter DOES in fact affect a pokemon's viability. And really, I'm not holding out hope that sharpedo is gonna get enough of a stat increase to 2HKO enough of it's counters to be successful. For example, how i brought up azumarill as a counter: if we assume sharpedo gets a decent boost to it's attack, say, 30 points, here's how that would break down:

252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 144-170 (35.7 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Ice Fang vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 78-92 (19.3 - 22.8%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Sharpedo Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 96-114 (23.8 - 28.2%) -- 93.5% chance to 4HKO

and meanwhile...

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sharpedo: 728-858 (259 - 305.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

that's against the current sharpedo, but even with a generous 30 point defense boost (which will NOT happen) and full defense investment, it'd still look like this:

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Sharpedo: 354-416 (125.9 - 148%) -- guaranteed OHKO

That's why i'm bringing up azumarill as a hard counter for sharpedo... because it is. And even if we gave sharp 50 more attack, which is insane and not happening, all azumarill would have to do to remain a counter is spend some EVs in defense. All of this is going against what we know about mega sharpedo so far... but if it gets some new attacks to play with, such as thunder fang or poison fang like i mentioned, that takes azumarill completely off the table as a counter, as:

252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Poison Fang vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 240-284 (59.5 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Thunder Fang vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 312-368 (77.4 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

again, that's assuming sharp gets 30 more attack for these calcs. the other thing that would give sharp an edge would be swords dance, which would bring crunch into 2HKO range on azumarill.

And even forgetting azumarill, sharp has some other weaknesses that will likely curb it's usability. Being as frail as it is, even with some stat boosts, priority is going to hurt a lot, and considering it's even weak to some priority attacks in mach punch and vacuum wave, that is something all sharpedos are gonna have to watch out for. Additionally, as sharp's coverage currently stands, there are a lot of pokemon that don't have a lot to fear from it and could KO it back. Venusuar I mentioned earlier, mega lucario is another pokemon that could steamroll sharpedo, and mega medicham would also be something it wouldn't want to see. It wouldn't like having to fight ferrothorn either, for that matter. Because between iron barbs/rocky helmet chipping away against any contact moves, gyro ball would be super strong against a speed boosted sharpedo, and power whip could KO as well.

So with all that going against sharpedo, i am of the opinion that it isn't going to be that viable, at least not until someone comes up with a unique set that somehow fills a surprising role or covers these threats somehow. Maybe a special attacking set? If it gets enough of a boost, that might work in some situations, but I've been basing most of this on the notion that people are gonna want to take advantage of strong jaw. Either way, it just looks to me like the metagame isn't going to be very sharpedo-friendly. I'd love to be proven wrong, because it looks cool as hell, but it just seems like sharpedo is going to be a disappointment.

 

[Level 51]

snip

I think you're missing the point of 13ulba's and U-Turn's arguments. What we're saying is that Doubles is a far more dynamic metagame than OU, and therefore Sharpedo likely won't even have to face any of these threats specifically 1-on-1. Azumarill isn't as common as you're making it out to be, unless you're fighting Haruno all the time. Therefore, Sharpedo stands to benefit greatly from intervention by its partners (eg. Follow Me support, Latios's Psyshocks for Venusaur, Rotom-A's Thunderbolts for Azumarill, etc.), meaning that the vast majority of the calculations you've put forth will likely never come to bear at all if you're a good player using Mega Sharpedo.

Mega Sharpedo could actually be way better than you're making it out to be. Surely Strong Jaw Crunch will put a lot of holes in things which don't resist it, right? And if they do resist it, then that's why you have a partner. In fact, after a Speed Boost, Mega Sharpedo can put large holes in a lot of common threats, such as but not limited to Terrakion, Cresselia, Landorus-Therian, Gengar, Excadrill, Heatran, Latios, Latias, Talonflame (if the Brave Bird is redirected or fails to KO!), Tyranitar, and so forth.

Will it need a fair amount of support? Yes. Will it be something to prepare for? Likely. Will it be the best Mega? Probably not. But—and this is arguably the major consideration—will it be worth the Mega slot? We can't say for sure! Although Mega Sharpedo isn't the Swiss Army Knife that Mega Kangaskhan is, I wouldn't jump so quickly to the conclusion that it will be a disappointment. Who knows? Maybe your team will have an odd combination of weaknesses neatly patched up by Mega Sharpedo! Stranger things have happened.

 

[SomeKidFromJohto]

I think you're missing the point of 13ulba's and U-Turn's arguments. What we're saying is that Doubles is a far more dynamic metagame than OU, and therefore Sharpedo likely won't even have to face any of these threats specifically 1-on-1. Azumarill isn't as common as you're making it out to be, unless you're fighting Haruno all the time. Therefore, Sharpedo stands to benefit greatly from intervention by its partners (eg. Follow Me support, Latios's Psyshocks for Venusaur, Rotom-A's Thunderbolts for Azumarill, etc.), meaning that the vast majority of the calculations you've put forth will likely never come to bear at all if you're a good player using Mega Sharpedo.

Mega Sharpedo could actually be way better than you're making it out to be. Surely Strong Jaw Crunch will put a lot of holes in things which don't resist it, right? And if they do resist it, then that's why you have a partner. In fact, after a Speed Boost, Mega Sharpedo can put large holes in a lot of common threats, such as but not limited to Terrakion, Cresselia, Landorus-Therian, Gengar, Excadrill, Heatran, Latios, Latias, Talonflame (if the Brave Bird is redirected or fails to KO!), Tyranitar, and so forth.

Will it need a fair amount of support? Yes. Will it be something to prepare for? Likely. Will it be the best Mega? Probably not. But—and this is arguably the major consideration—will it be worth the Mega slot? We can't say for sure! Although Mega Sharpedo isn't the Swiss Army Knife that Mega Kangaskhan is, I wouldn't jump so quickly to the conclusion that it will be a disappointment. Who knows? Maybe your team will have an odd combination of weaknesses neatly patched up by Mega Sharpedo! Stranger things have happened.

I'll admit that I did actually forget that this was a doubles forum at first, but I don't think the difference between singles and doubles is going to be that significant to the argument, either. I'm just concerned that sharp is going to be a letdown, and the fact that we're talking specifically into one metagame or the other doesn't change that. I didn't really want to start a debate, all I was saying is that I think sharp is going to be a hard pokemon to use. Sure, it'll have things it can cover and things that cover it just like every other pokemon, but I just feel like a mega evolution's stat boosts and strong jaw aren't gonna be enough to make sharpedo good enough to be a top-tier threat, in any metagame. I mean, if we're gonna go ahead and bring team support into things, then any feint user paired with a strong fighting type move user will cream sharpedo who try to protect up and speed boost every single time. I just feel that sharpedo will be an easy pokemon to outplay, personally. Maybe that's just me; after all, I was just stating my opinion. The beauty of pokemon is that any pokemon CAN be effective if used properly, so it's not like any of them are really BAD... I just feel that mega sharpedo's cons are probably going to outweigh it's pros, which will leave it a disappointment to people who were hoping it would be really good. Heck, I actually think it'd be great if sharp became a good, usable poke, since I've always liked it's design, but I just don't see it right now.

 

[qsns]

any pokemon CAN be effective if used properly

that's what all the people using spinda and arcanine say :/

nah, but I'm agreeing with Johto on the sharpedo issue, water/dark is only an okay offensive typing (eZ walled by bunnies) and it's way too frail to be usable. crunch is only an ok stab even with strong jaw compared to a lot of the other megas. you can hype about speed boost all you want, but any pokemon with priority is going to eat you alive and since you can only get one speed boost safely with protect, you're either losing out on a lot of power by going jolly or you're getting ohko'd by lando-t. it seems okay and if it gets major defensive buffs, it might be pretty good, but i don't really see it being anything close to a top tier threat.

 

[13ulbasaur]

I'll admit that I did actually forget that this was a doubles forum at first, but I don't think the difference between singles and doubles is going to be that significant to the argument, either. I'm just concerned that sharp is going to be a letdown, and the fact that we're talking specifically into one metagame or the other doesn't change that.

wanna try playing doubles sometime tho? It's real good and you'd find it is actually quite different. ;)

btw I feel like you missed my comment when I said I didn't think Sharpedo would be that great either lol

 

[Indie Flop]

Okay guys, another leak is out now! Mega Beedrill with Adaptabilty, Mega Pidgeot with No Guard and a more convincing SpAtk stat. Both of these sound sort of meh to me in doubles and like more of Singles threats.

 

[Level 51]

Okay guys, another leak is out now! Mega Beedrill with Adaptabilty, Mega Pidgeot with No Guard and a more convincing SpAtk stat. Both of these sound sort of meh to me in doubles and like more of Singles threats.

They don't sound like threats at all from what I've heard. No Guard Hurricane is okay I guess but pretty meh unless Pidgeot gets some amazing SAtk and Speed boosts; Adaptability isn't really the best on Bug / Poison STAB especially when all you have to work with in terms of moves are X-Scissor and Poison Jab. Maybe Beedrill will get Megahorn and a +200 BST boost or something.

 

[Mizuhime]

Gen 1 hype \o/ #freebutter #birdjesus #beedrillhype

 

[Mizuhime]

so, 2 new megas have been announced today

Glalie a pure ice type with the ability refrigerate with stats that look like this 80/120/80/120/80/100. It's pure ice type so it's still got a shit type, but it's stats look very nice and it can probably end up being a pretty decent, above average mon in the right hands.

Steelix was also announced. Ground/Steel type with the ability sand force with stats that look like 75/125/230/55/95/30. Obviously Steelix won't be amazing, but it could very well see some usage. Sand Force is an interesting ability for it to get and it could be pretty threatening on the right team.

We also found out what Sceptile and Swamperts stats will look like; 70/110/75/145/85/145. Dragon Grass etc etc, likely won't have Draco Meteor so nothing really to worry about here. Leaf storm will still be a little strong

and finally your new God Swampert. 100/150/110/95/110/70...... Swampert, for those who weren't around was really good in ADV, and really good in DPP. He has since gone to the mountains, done some training, boosted his attack a bit a lot and even got a little bulkier. I also forgot to mention SWIFT SWIM . I think that swampert will be kinda really really good in doubles and even possibly be in competition for the best new mega.

you may now discuss your future God.

(all projected stats were calced based on game footage from the demo by nerds that aren't me)

 

[Lolk]

r u kidding me mizu swampert is nothing compared to glalie's ice-splosion

 

[qsns]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-mega-speculation-thread.3519695/page-7#post-5796540

so you know how everyone was saying mega gallade couldn't actually beat mega kang because of probably not enough speed + shit defense

Index: 803 - Gallade-M Stats: 68/165/95/65/115/110 Type: Psychic/Fighting Catchrate: 45 Stage: 3

have fun, jackasses

edit: also, pidgeot looks like a ton of fun. i personally thought it was going to be absolute garbage because none of the stats would really get enough of a boost to do it any good. however, 135 spa and 121 speed aren't anything to laugh at with a really powerful hurricane STAB to back it up and heat wave for coverage. completely walled by tranners, but that's what hp ground is for. i'm gonna try out a sub set first, as the amazing speed and okay coverage will definitely be able to force some defensive plays.

 

[Qazoo306]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-mega-speculation-thread.3519695/page-7#post-5796540

Jerks! Stealing my ideas!

edit: also, pidgeot looks like a ton of fun. i personally thought it was going to be absolute garbage because none of the stats would really get enough of a boost to do it any good. however, 135 spa and 121 speed aren't anything to laugh at with a really powerful hurricane STAB to back it up and heat wave for coverage. completely walled by tranners, but that's what hp ground is for. i'm gonna try out a sub set first, as the amazing speed and okay coverage will definitely be able to force some defensive plays.

Hurricane is all it has going for it IMO. It's special move pool consists of hurricane and heat wave... And you can't run Zard-Y to boost heat wave's power. If it gets Hyper Voice or something, it will be good because it has usably powerful STABs and some coverage, but if it doesn't, then I don't expect much usage at all.

 

[qsns]

Jerks! Stealing my ideas!


Hurricane is all it has going for it IMO. It's special move pool consists of hurricane and heat wave... And you can't run Zard-Y to boost heat wave's power. If it gets Hyper Voice or something, it will be good because it has usably powerful STABs and some coverage, but if it doesn't, then I don't expect much usage at all.

i don't expect it to get much usage at all lmao but it looks a whole lot better than i originally thought it would.

also lol @ beedrill's stat distribution. tbh even though it's frail as hell, i think it'll be worth a shot as long as you can block priority. u-turn/poison jab/drill run/tect looks pretty okay to me.