Resource XY RU Tier List (RU Viability Ranking itt)

[Pearl]

Forgot to add, I'll be nominating Spiritomb to A- again, with a quote from Spirit's post on Simple Question, Simple Answer and one of my posts from the other Viability Ranking thread. Pay attention that Spirit hasn't stated his opinion on Spiritomb's ranking, he only pointed out actual facts about the Pokemon that are perfectly usable for this situation, since they pretty much back up my reasoning on it, and I'm sort of lazy to write it myself:

One example of an anti-meta Pokemon is Spiritomb, considering it can defeat the entire S-rank and beats a lot of the boosting Psychic-types that have risen to popularity, and the rising prominence of Slowking on stall, which Spiritomb can Pursuit trap rather well further solidifies this point. Another example is Shiftry, which also deals with Doublade and boosting Psychic-types, but can also take on spike-stacking teams that have increased in usage as of late thanks to Defog.

It is pretty much the premier Pursuit trapper at the moment, puts 4/5 of the S rank in check (and the 5th one is arguably the most controversial S ranked Pokemon) and isn't the hardest Pokemon to fit on a team due to having only one weakness. It's had a lot of support for B+ and now that the metagame is more stable (and will stay stable for a couple months) I think that this could be pushed up. Infiltrator is a plus too.

I'd also like to mention something that a lot of people forget Spiritomb can do in case you need a Reuniclus counter: It doesn't need to run arguably inferior (I don't have experience on them so I don't know) sets such as Crotomb to check it, since it has access to Taunt, and can replace either Foul Play or Will-O-Wisp with it on the standard set. In general, I've used this Pokemon extensively and have already supported this nomination for quite some time now (right after the most recent bans I think)

 

[EonX]

Gastrodon: I'm a little on the fence on as I don't have a ton of experience using it. That said, I've never really had trouble facing it, so I guess B- is ok for it. I think Recover + 3 Attacks LO deserves at least a little bit of exploring though.

Spiritomb: I have a lot of experience using Spiritomb lately, and it's really solid. As Pearl pointed out, it beats all the S rank threats and fares well against quite a few top threats in general. However, its main issue is its stat distribution. It really wishes it was either a little bulkier or a little stronger. Base 50 HP really undermines its base 108 Defenses while base 92 attacking stats is good, but not amazing. It gets a boosting move in Calm Mind, but its best overall moves fall on the physical side. Not really sure if it should be B+ or A-, but I did want to bring up these points for discussion as well.

And now for two of my own propositions. The first would be moving Cofagrigus down to C+ rank. A lot of us thought that with Zoroark gone, Cofagrigus might have a chance to shine again. However, this just isn't the case. It still has severe issues with competition from Doublade (primarily) and Spiritomb as a bulky Ghost-type spinblocker. (there's another, but more on that later) Its defensive set just kinda sits there and does little-nothing while OTR really got nerfed with the HP nerf. There's also the fact that Meloetta, Moltres, and Exploud just completely shit on it. These are 3 of the strongest attackers in RU and they fear absolutely nothing from Cofagrigus. Knock Off is still a thing with Shiftry, Hitmonlee, and the rare Sneasel still using it at nearly every corner. Perhaps one of the biggest issues is that Cofagrigus is even slower than Doublade, meaning the Doublade user can turn Mummy against Cofagrigus to rid Doublade of No Guard to potentially dodge Will-O-Wisp. Most of the time, I just see Cofagrigus as a big, fat Ghost that just sits there not being able to do that much. It can't even spinblock reliably due to the most common spinners, Hitmonlee, Kabutops, and Sandslash, all carrying Knock Off. Kabutops and Sandslash even have STAB moves to follow-up with.

The other would be moving Gourgeist-XL up to B- rank. This is the other fat Ghost I elluded to in the Cofag paragraph. Simple point is this; if you want a big, fat Ghost-type to spinblock and cause the opponent issues, use this one. Thanks to its secondary Grass typing, Sandslash and Kabutops no longer are freely able to penetrate it after Knock Off. What's more is that XL Pumpkin has Leech Seed to mitigate the removal of Leftovers if a spinner predicts the switch-in and catches it with Knock Off. This, combined with the fact that XL Pumpkin has Protect as well, means that it can still be difficult to take down after the removal of Leftovers, something Cofagrigus doesn't have the luxury of. That Grass typing is also super helpful when it comes to dealing with stuff like Rhyperior, Virizion, and random Electric-types. (LO Jolteon has a small chance to miss the 3HKO with Signal Beam after Rocks) This post explains more in-depth about XL Pumpkin, but I feel it's really underrated right now and is probably the best dedicated spinblocker in RU right now.

 

[Molk]

I definitely agree on moving Cofagrigus down further. Even with Zoroark out of the tier, it still struggles quite a bit in this metagame and i really haven't feared the sight of a Cofagrigus at all in quite a long time. Many of RU's most threatening Pokemon, including Meloetta, Exploud, and Moltres don't care about it at all, and simply use it as a free opportunity to fire off powerful attacks while only fearing a burn at worst in return (at least Doublade can do like 55% to the first two with Iron Head and around 45 to the latter with Shadow Claw, Cofagrigus just offers what's basically a free switch in). On top of having a lot of trouble with some of the most common Pokemon in the tier, Cofagrigus *still* finds itself being outcompeted by RU's other bulky Ghost-types when it comes to finding a teamslot (Spiritomb and Doublade in particular), who are able to perform their spinblocking job much better than Cofagrigus can because of raw physical bulk (Sword) or a neutrality to Knock Off (Spiritomb), and are simply much more suited to the current metagame overall (both).

Defensive Cofagrigus kinda reminds me of Dusknoir in BW2 RU. It can soak up a bunch of hits, but it kinda just.......sits there and does nothing while it does so. Matters are made worse when Cofagrigus happens to be especially vulnerable to the ever common Knock Off, which does major damage to it and removes its precious Leftovers recovery all in one fell swoop, heavily crippling it: This is something it'll have to endure quite a bit too considering RU's most common Rapid Spin user, Hitmonlee, learns it.

As mentioned by EonX above, the OTR set *really* does not appreciate the Hidden Power nerf, and absolutely hates the presence of Meloetta in the meta, one of the best possible counters to the thing. Combine this w/ the fact that it takes two turns to set up fully in a meta where a lot of common threats can hit it hard and it's kinda a fallen star imo =/. I'd also much rather use Doublade, Spiritomb, or Mega Banette as my spinblocker on almost every offensive team i make tbh.

I guess it still has a niche as a Toxic Spikes setter, but i'd rather use Weezing, Roselia, or Drapion in this role most of the time, especially considering that Cofagrigus has some major 4mss, and that Toxic Spikes are illegal with Cofagrigus's only method of recovery as of now (Pain Split).

I'm not sure about Gourgeist-XL myself.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Yeah Gastrodon isn't a bad Pokemon necessarily, but it just kinda pales in comparison to Alomomola and Slowking as a defensive Water-type, and isn't as impressive offensively as other offensive Water-types like Kabutops and Clawitzer. It's not a terrible Pokemon, and has decent niches in countering Doublade, Jolteon, and the like, but otherwise its stats are too generalized for it to really stand out.

As for Spiritomb, I like it a lot. Its BlackGlasses set is very good, being able to function as an effective catch-all check to many of the top Pokemon in the metagame right now. Pursuit and Sucker Punch are both incredible moves that allow Spiritomb to put up some mindgames with its opponent and give it a lot of offensive utility. Foul Play is also awesome to nail Doublade and Bronzong. Will-O-Wisp is nice on an offensive utility Pokemon and allows Spiritomb to cripple stuff like Gligar and Virizion which is completely awesome. I also like its ability to spinblock Hitmonlee. My only problem with Spiritomb is that it's kind of easy to take advantage of because of Sucker Punch's mechanics, and Aromatisse is everywhere, but beyond that Spiritomb is really good. I wouldn't mind if it stays in B+, but A- is pretty reasonable for it imo. It's quite good and is very useful on teams that need an offensive check to mons like Meloetta, Hitmonlee, Doublade, Delphox, etc. that's also decently bulky (though not that bulky, luckily its defensive typing is neat), Spiritomb is an awesome choice.

I literally haven't seen Cofagrigus used in ages, and I haven't used it in a while tbh outside of a TR team and an RU minitour match. The poor thing just doesn't do that well in this meta, needing two turns of setup sucks in this meta and Cofagrigus is really easy to pressure with common threats like Meloetta, Drapion, and Skuntank in the tier. Defensive set is pretty meh imo because it's very passive and kills a lot of momentum. It also has no recovery beyond Leftovers and Pain Split, so it won't be taking hits for long. Knock Off really hurts it and it's so slow so it's very easy to wear down. Poor Cofagrigus, I remember when you were good. It's amazing to think something that was once UU's (and even RU's!) premier spinblocker and Ghost-type and once one of RU's most dominant Pokemon has fallen so far (aka the Knock Off effect). So much that things like Spiritomb, Mismagius, and Banette of all things are now better than this thing, who would've thought we've seen the day? Anyways I guess I'm not opposed to dropping Cofagrigus to C+, the poor thing just doesn't do that well atm. A shame because I love Cofagrigus and it's always been one of my favorite Pokemon.

I haven't used Gourgeist since the beginning of the generation so I can't say much on it, but I will say that if Gourgeist-XL does wind up moving up, I think the small form should go with it. The Small form is a whole lot faster and has a fast Will-O-Wisp, and functions as a nice fast SubSeeder and can also spinblock Hitmonlee just as well as the XL form does. The XL form has all the extra bulk, but the Small form has a lot more Speed which is just as useful. So if one Gourgeist moves up, so should the other, they are both equally viable imo and should be in the same rank.

I also think Bronzong in B- is an embarrassment to its capabilities, it has an awesome defensive typing that walls quite a few things like Mega Abomasnow and Rhyperior, and in general is a nice wall that is resilient to all hazards, sets up Rocks, and has an okay offensive presence. I could write more but this post is already really long as it stands but yeah I think B- is lower than what Bronzong really deserves. Its only issue is that it's weak to Knock Off but hey that's why you have teammates, and Bronzong has plenty of good points to mostly overshadow that.

 

[Pearl]

I haven't used Gourgeist since the beginning of the generation so I can't say much on it, but I will say that if Gourgeist-XL does wind up moving up, I think the small form should go with it. The Small form is a whole lot faster and has a fast Will-O-Wisp, and functions as a nice fast SubSeeder and can also spinblock Hitmonlee just as well as the XL form does. The XL form has all the extra bulk, but the Small form has a lot more Speed which is just as useful. So if one Gourgeist moves up, so should the other, they are both equally viable imo and should be in the same rank.

Yeah, I was about to touch on that point, although I was also a bit hesitant due to only having experience with Smallgeist, and thus being unable to compare those two. However, Smallgeist has some good points going on for it, including an arguably excellent Speed tier, bulk (not as beefy as Big Gourgeist, but shouldn't be underestimated nonetheless), and an usable Attack stat, which allow it to run stuff such as Rock Slide in order to lure Moltres and Fletchinder if really needed (although I'd still run Seed Bomb or Phantom Force during most serious situations), which it can do thanks to its higher Speed. Also, with the exception of Amoonguss and the uncommon Roselia, it fares well against most Grass-types attempting to block Leech Seed, since Rotom-C isn't usually doing much damage (Specs hurts guys) and is easy to wear down through Stealth Rock damage and a Will-O-Wisp burn. Also, dedicated Pokemon to block Rapid Spin aren't really a thing anymore, and even if they were, Spiritomb and Doublade are, under most circumstances, better Spinblockers for balanced / offensive teams that can't rely on Defog, and stall usually runs a Defog of its own too, possibly nullifying one of Biggeist's biggest (pun not intended) niches (not sure on it, since, as I said already, I'm lacking in experience with it, and I'm just writing this mostly in hope that people don't start thinking Smallgeist is outclassed). With that said, I'd push Small Gourgeist up to B-, along with its bigger cousin, although I'm not going to speak on that one due to lack of experience, so if you're seeking for reasoning on it check EonX's post.

 

[EonX]

To be fair, I wanted to nominate Small Gourgeist when I nominated XL Gourgeist, but much like Pearl. with XL Gourgeist, I have very little experience with Small Gourgiest and didn't feel comfortable nominating something I have very little experience with. That said, stall teams don't HAVE to use Defog. In fact, I think it's highly detrimental to a playstyle that heavily relies on passive damage to weaken opponents, so I don't think using XL Pumpkin on stall takes away its greatest trait. In fact, using it on a stall team should make its greatest trait all the more important and its access to Leech Seed lightens the burden on the team's Wish passer (I personally use Aroma with XL Geist, but Mola certainly works) since Leech Seed can give gradual healing to whatever your counter to a certain threat is and lessens the blow from Knock Off for anything.

 

[g]

I have ben using Spiritomb for a while now at first as a reliable spinblocker and switch in against Hitmonlee and other offensive Fighting- and Normal-typea and more recently for its Pursuit trapping capabilities. Spiritomb is a very versatile Pokémon indeed being able to run anything from its fantastic offensive support set that can trouble a lot of Pokemon in offensive and balanced teams with its access to strong priority and Pursuit trapping capabilities to it's mono attacking Calm Mind set that pretty much destroys any stall team after Aromatisse is weakened. The fact that its offensive set in particular can reliably do its job consistently checking some of the better Pokemon in the tier (just look at the S rank) both as a Pursuit trapper and with its access to priority I wouldn't really consider it "niche" in the current metagame and I'd really like to see it in the A ranks, A- in this case.

 

[The Bravest Bird]

wow i wanted to nominate tomb for a- ;_;

but yeah, with priority to mitigate low speed, the ability to pursuit trap almost every psychic in the tier, and being a great spinblocker to boot, as well as being able to fit on nearly every playstyle, i think it deserves a-

i would write up a more detailed post but fk tablets

 

[Omfuga]

I'm going to nominate Sawk back up to C+. Quoting my post from RU viability ranking 1 as it's still relevant:

"I think Sawk should be put on the list. Sawk, choice banded Sawk in particular, is a massive threat to a lot of RU teams. Sawk has the capability to OHKO almost every offensive threat in the tier, and boasts decent speed as well. Hitting a nice 383 attack, Sawk is a powerhouse. Another thing benefiting Sawk is its abilities-- sturdy and mold breaker. With sturdy, Sawk can live any hit, such as from Delphox, Braviary, or Sigilyph, and OHKO in return. With mold breaker, Sawk can bypass Weezing, which is its primary counter. Sawk's power rivals Hitmonlee, only doing about 5-10% less than lee's HJK. Although Hitmonlee seems superior, Sawk has its merit in comparison to hitmonlee. For one, the extra power on knock off is pretty noticable. As Sawk has a higher attack stat than Hitmonlee, and will be running a choice band rather than a life orb, it's able to gets 2hkos where Hitmonlee can't, primary examples being Doublade and Cofagrigus, both of which Sawk 2hko's most of the time, and Hitmonlee can't. Also, Sawk has ice punch to neuter Gligar, debatably the best Hitmonlee counter in the tier. Although Hitmonlee has a clear niche superior to Sawk's, namely rapid spin and mach punch, I think Sawk fits a unique role on teams. It's able to break walls effectively with perfect coverage (close combat, knock off, ice punch, eq/poison jab), its speed stat is pretty good for RU, and its ability lets it live any single hit. For these reasons, I think Sawk should be at least a B- rank pokemon."

Also, something I didn't mention, Sawk has merit over gallade as well. Although they have the same base attack and movepool (not sure if gallade gets pjab, it should be running zen anyway), Sawk has more speed, 2 better potential abilities, and better defensive typing. Pure fighting is a little more useful than psychic-fighting mainly because Gallade is such huge spiritomb-bate, and a blackglasses pursuit on the switch can easily do 70-ish percent. A shadow sneak also does near the same. Sawk, on the other hand, is neutral to ghost and resists dark. As for sturdy and mold breaker, both can be useful whereas justified is rarely helpful on a pokemon with piss defense in a knock-off infested tier.

Tl;dr: Sawk is a massive powerhouse, base 125 attack choice banded cc basically neuters everything. In comparison to hitmonlee who is mostly better, sawk has almost the same power, and added power to 2hko doublade and cofagrigus, which hitmonlee cant. It also has access to poison jab and ice punch to beat hitmonlee's two common counters: aromatisse and gligar. Sawk may suffer as being partially outclassed by hitmonlee, but I think that its niche as an offensive fighting type make it worthy of a higher rank (low B or higher C rank)

 

[Molk]

Hey everyone, i decided to Sticky this thread since it's usually around the top of the forum anyway, one of the most discussed in threads overall (V1 had over 1000 posts before we made the big update), and because the viability rankings are a pretty good resource for new players!

I'll probably be making updates later today/tommorow :).

 

[Dark G]

Nominating Pyroar to be promoted from (C-)---->B/B+ Rank

I feel Pyroar is criminally underrated in the current RU meta and is often viewed as a mon that is completely inferior to Moltres/Delphox, when this is simply not the case. Pyroar's secondary normal typing is nothing short of a godsend in this meta that allows it to check the omnipresent Doublade and discourage choice specs Meloetta from revenging your own Doublade with shadow ball.

Pyroar's base speed stat is another niche in itself that allows it to not get revenge killed by opposing Mismagius (a feat that non-scarfed delphox can't boast) and outspeed common Delphox's.

I've found Pyroar to outclass Delphox when using it on a hyper offence archetype in conjunction with lead Omastar since it also has a boosting move in the form of Work Up (Yes, I said Work Up), check Doublade (a mon that tends to give these teams trouble), as well as stopping bulky defoggers with Taunt.

Pyroar is a great mon in the RU meta and I strongly believe it should be promoted.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

That's kind of the problem with Pyroar though. It's not an inherently bad Pokemon, but it's still usually inferior to Delphox and Moltres. Not completely inferior, but still usually outclassed. The Normal typing is definitely really cool, since that makes it a cool Doublade check, but it doesn't have Grass Knot like Delphox does nor does it have the extra raw power of Moltres. It's not quite as terrifying as Delphox because it's not quite as powerful and doesn't have CM like Fox does (Work Up might be okay but eh), and being weak to Mach Punch is kind of bad with Hitmonlee and to an extent Gurdurr being relevant in RU. Maybe it could be C, but B Rank is far too high for it in my opinion. It's still pretty niche and its Ghost immunity is the real thing it has going for it over its competition.

 

[Dark G]

That's kind of the problem with Pyroar though. It's not an inherently bad Pokemon, but it's still usually inferior to Delphox and Moltres. Not completely inferior, but still usually outclassed. The Normal typing is definitely really cool, since that makes it a cool Doublade check, but it doesn't have Grass Knot like Delphox does nor does it have the extra raw power of Moltres. It's not quite as terrifying as Delphox because it's not quite as powerful and doesn't have CM like Fox does (Work Up might be okay but eh), and being weak to Mach Punch is kind of bad with Hitmonlee and to an extent Gurdurr being relevant in RU. Maybe it could be C, but B Rank is far too high for it in my opinion. It's still pretty niche and its Ghost immunity is the real thing it has going for it over its competition.

Its ghost type immunity alone does not justify putting it in the same rank as Delphox (mainly due to Delphox's added resistances and bulk) but it is still a good enough reason you would want to use it over her on various teams, which is why I placed Pyroar significantly below Delphox for the most part.

Not gaining access to Grass Knot isn't too detrimental to Pyroar as Hyper Voice hits AV Slowking for not too much less. Hp grass can also be used if you fear Rhyperior and Gastro but i've found it doesn't really need it with the proper team support.

Maybe B+ was too much of a jump but I believe B is just fine for it as of now.

 

[phantom]

I'd keep Pyroar in C-. Literally the only reason to use is because it checks Doublade (and I suppose other less relevant offensive Ghosts such as Mismagius and Cofagrigus) and that's it. Under every other aspect, it's strictly outclassed by Moltres, Delphox, and even Emboar as a wallbreaker. Putting it anywhere in the B ranks would imply that it isn't heavily outclassed by anything, which just isn't true. Basically, when you consider Pyroar for a team, it's usually if your team already has one of three Fire-types mentioned above, and they only include Pyroar over one of them if their team is especially weak to Doublade. Maybe it can move from C- to C rank, but it moving to the B ranks just isn't okay, it faces way too much competition and its niche is very minute.

edit @ below:

It's not "partially outperformed". It's severely outperformed. I guarantee you that if Doublade didn't exist or wasn't this highly ranked, Pyroar wouldn't even have a rank itself. Doublade is one of the best Pokemon in RU, not the best, as that title goes to Meloetta, but nonetheless, Pyroar isn't ranked based off its own merit, but rather, by the sheer dominance of another Pokemon justifying its use.

 

[Dark G]

Maybe i'm reading too much into things but Pyroar is literally the textbook definition of B rank:

B Rank
Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.

Pyroar has difficulty breaking through dedicated special walls (i.e AV Slowking) without entry hazard support/Prior damage.

It's offensive niche is in the form of checking the tier's most dangerous pokemon without any support and to a lesser extent finds a defensive niche (atleast when comparing Pyroar with Delphox/Moltres) is in revenge killing a very common RU poke (Choice specs Meloetta) that is locked into shadow ball, aswell as walling the most common Mismagius sets.

It is partially outperformed by pokemon in A+ rank (Delphox/Moltres) but is still extremely potent.

 

[Punchshroom]

Maybe i'm reading too much into things but Pyroar is literally the textbook definition of B rank:
B Rank
Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.

It's offensive niche is in the form of checking the tier's most dangerous pokemon without any support and to a lesser extent finds a defensive niche (atleast when comparing Pyroar with Delphox/Moltres) is in revenge killing a very common RU poke (Choice specs Meloetta) that is locked into shadow ball, aswell as walling the most common Mismagius sets.

It is partially outperformed by pokemon in A+ rank (Delphox/Moltres) but is still extremely potent.

See, Pyroar is not just partially outperformed; outside of its Ghost immunity, there is very little reason to consider Pyroar over other RU Fire-types, which better fits the C Rank description. Pyroar does have good speed but is mostly irrelevant since it is still outsped by musketeers and Durant, and base 105s consist of like, what, 2 Pokes (one of which is D Rank)? Delphox and Moltres, for the most part, are much better Fire-types due to their superior movepool and versatility, while Pyroar has next to nothing to distinguish itself from them in terms of either. Pyroar is pretty much used only for the Ghost immunity, which is a 'last resort/desperate mesaure' sort of case, because if your team already handles Ghosts or isn't troubled by them, you're holding yourself back by using Pyroar over Fox or Moltres. This is why the other NU Fire-types, Typhlosion and Magmortar, don't see the light of day in RU despite their supposed uses in the tier: they offer almost nothing over Fox and Moltres, making them seem tame in comparison.

Even then, Pyroar only really gains a solid upper hand against Doublade and Mismagius (and last I checked, Moltres handles Doublade vastly better than Pyroar without SR in play, while Pyroar still struggles with SR and bad bulk); other Ghost-types either are handled fine by the other Fires or can trouble Pyroar anyway. C+ at best.

 

[EonX]

Pyroar: Keep it in C- rank. I was the one who originally nominated it because of its ability to check Doublade better than virtually any other Pokemon in RU. Even then, Meloetta typically carries Shadow Ball now and has a secondary Normal typing to avoid damage from Shadow Claw / Sneak. Moltres does fine if SR isn't on the field, and it has Roost (bar Scarf sets) to keep itself healthy throughout the game. Heliolisk has the same Ghost immunity and Steel resistance as Pyroar does, but it also is able to outspeed Virizion and Cobalion, something Pyroar can't do (outspeeding these two would make Pyroar a lot more appealing imo) And of course, outside of checking Doublade and the odd Mismagius, Delphox and Moltres will almost always be a better choice.

 

[Alfalfa]

What is keeping Ambipom from E Rank? It is literal garbage, is bad at everything aside from Fake Out, is a waste of a teamslot, cannot do squat to defensive Pokemon aside from Knock Off, and is pitass frail. 99 out of 100 times Ambipom is usually a waste of a teamslot. Ambipom for E Rank.

 

[Pearl]

What is keeping Ambipom from E Rank? It is literal garbage, is bad at everything aside from Fake Out, is a waste of a teamslot, cannot do squat to defensive Pokemon aside from Knock Off, and is pitass frail. 99 out of 100 times Ambipom is usually a waste of a teamslot. Ambipom for E Rank.

cause ambipom can run those fun lure sets with hidden power ice, shadow ball and grass knot along with fake out, which allow it to net some surprise kills, even against more experienced players (especially those, as they'll overlook ambipom A LOT of times). that niche is enough to warrant it a D Rank at least. Claydol and Hitmonchan just straight up lose vs some of the most common pokemon

 

[Molk]

Alrighty, time to update this!

Updates

Both Gourgeists moved up to B- rank
Cofagrigus moved down to C+ rank
Spiritomb moved up to A- rank
Sawk up to C+ rank
Gastrodon down to B- rank

I'd like more discussion on Ambipom and Pyroar before moving them.

If you have any problems with the new updates to the ranks, feel free to post your problems here and i'll consider changing them further!

 

[Pearl]

Feels accomplishing to finally see Spiritomb up where it deserves to be, thanks everyone who supported it.

Going to throw another nomination for lower ranks in, although last time with Volbeat was sort of a failure:

Unranked -> D

I feel that Rotom-F is one incredibly underrated Pokemon in RU. Since there is a good amount of Sunny Day abusers down on D Rank, it's worth mentioning that Rotom-F is the best dedicated Hail Abuser, due to a couple of factors. First of all, it's self sufficient. Although it really likes to spam those 100% accuracy Blizzard, in the end, it's still a Volt Switch user that has a way of making Ground-types think twice before coming in, which is a pretty solid niche if I do say so myself. And even though it's not encouraged to speak of cores or partners while ranking a Pokemon, Frost Rotom is one of the best partners for Mega Abomasnow, and it's not only due to Blizzard spam, although it plays a huge role. Frost Rotom's access to Volt Switch allow it to support Abomasnow in more than one way, either through creating safe situations for it to come in or even to lure some of its defensive checks and weaken them, such as Registeel. In return, Abomasnow provides Hail and punches even more holes. And even though it fares well against a decent amount of defensive cores (its STAB combination destroys Alomomola, Amoonguss, Slowking, Rhyperior and Gligar), it also has access to Trick in order to cripple the occasional Pokemon it can't break through. Its drawbacks are the fact it requires arguably excessive amounts of support and that its typing, while excellent on the offensive side, gives it a considerable amount of undesired weaknesses, but that's why I'm only pushing it to D Rank. For additional information, the set I've been working with is the Choice Specs one. Choice Scarf and even Substitute + Pain Split could potentially be viable, but I have no experience with those.

And speaking of Rotom forms; I could see this one moving up to C rank, although I'm not going too far nominating this one. It has an extremely troll Speed tier (in the good sense of the word), three viable sets (Specs, Scarf and offensive SubSplit), STAB Shadow Ball, which is an easy-to-spam move and an excellent typing, and although it doesn't have the defensive prowess to make use of it defensively, it can use it to force switches and create opportunities to set up Substitute or regain momentum, depending on the set. In general, I think it's an incredibly underrated Pokemon right now, its drawbacks being a possible lack of damage if you're not used to its output and the fact it loves support (Toxic Spikes for Substitute set, hazard control for Choice, since it'll spam a lot of Volt Switches and so on)

If I recall properly, there are more credible people with Rotom(-F) experience, so I'd like those to express their opinion if/when possible.

 

[RufflesPro]

Aight

Sandslash (C-) --> (B) rank, maybe even (B+).

It's definitely a solid rapid spinner, as viable (if not more viable) as Kabutops (in B), and definitely more reliable than Hitmontop (C-) IMO. It does not only have the ability to Rapid Spin and threaten almost all Stealth Rock users (out of my mind only Omastar is a threat to Sandslash) such as Registeel and Rhyperior, but it also has the ability to threaten and beat almost all, it not completely all, Spinblockers with the combination of Knock Off and Swords Dance, especially if Lum berry is attached (It pretty much is the only spinner that can beat Doublade 1v1). Furthermore, it can set up rocks (if chosen over Swords Dance) effectively, and can threaten the #1 spinner in their tier = Hitmonlee, by being able to survive Adamant LO Reckless HJK and being able to OHKO w/ EQ after LO damage and some tiny residual damage (if not invested in Atk). It's also definitely a better stealth rock user than Bronzong (B-) since it can not only Rapid Spin but also tank hits from more common pokemons and actually do something offensively. Defensive Sandslash can't really take care of Spinblockers as much as the SD variant, but it can check and counter or at least severely weaken many threats in the tier, such as Doublade, Rhyperior, Hitmonlee, Psyshock Reuniclus, Cobalion, Registeel, Jolteon, Magneton, Dugtrio, Drapion, and there's a lot more.

Togetic (B) --> (B+) rank.

Togetic is a really good pokemon in the tier, being able to tank a lot of hits, and easily avoid 2hkos or even 3hkos from common threats such as Sharpedo and Hitmonlee just makes it amazing. NastyPass is what it does best, passing it to threats like Sharpedo will easily spell the doom of any HO team, while passing it to Delphox, Moltres, Exploud, or Meloetta can easily be the doom of Stall or even Balanced. Furthermore, Togetic has access to Defog, making it the 2nd best defog user in tier after Gligar, and is pretty much the only, or at least the most viable, choice if the user doesn't like Gligar or it simply doesn't fit the team. To top that all, Togetic has Roost, an extremely reliable recovery which helps it both Defog hazards and/or NastyPass.



I think Rotom-Mow should drop to B+ or B, and maybe Braviary move up to A-, but still haven't had enough experience with either of them lately.

 

[JMcFizz]

Ey. Rotom-F. Rank that shit. D is def enough.

It has the same stats as Rotom-C so the difference in ranks will obviously be due to typing and movepool.

Rotom-C has a definite advantage among the top parts of the tier, but Rotom-F has it's uses. It can scare the shit out of Druddigon
252 SpA Rotom-F Blizzard vs. 236 HP / 0 SpD Druddigon: 338-402 (95.4 - 113.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

and has an advantage over Rotom-c in terms of Amoongus and Tangrowth.

It can still scare rhyperior, which can pretty much only take a blizzard if at full health or specially defensive

252 SpA Rotom-F Blizzard vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 375-442 (88.4 - 104.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

It can volt switch out of all the same threats as Rotom-c, but it's ability to pressure Druddigon and punish many common regenerator cores (Big Fish, Slowking, Amoongus, Tangrowth)

FYI it can 2HKO Amoongus, even if someone runs a shitty AV version...

252 SpA Rotom-F Blizzard vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Assault Vest Amoonguss: 222-264 (51.3 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It sucks defensively compared to Rotom-c, since the Mower can take scalds like a champ, and the Fridge doesn't resist it. Ice also has a shit ton of weaknesses.... but hey. At least put it D for it's unique role in breaking down cores, as well as it's ability to abuse hail.

 

[Bouff]

Nah, I think Sandslash is fine where it is. It doesn't have reliable recovery, faces severe competition from Gligar, who does pretty much everything Sandslash does, but better, and has a lot more advantages than Sandslash at that (U-turn, Roost, isn't forced to have all Ghost-types off the field to clean hazards, Ground immunity which lets it check Rhyperior better). Not only that, it has pretty bad Special Defense, which is really bad xonsidering the amount of special wallbreakers in the tier (not saying Gligar handles them any better, but it can at least tank a hit or two and not just flat-out die), and its speed is mediocre at best, which sucks a lot if you're using SD. It's just not really on par with the likes of Lanturn and Kricketune.

 

[Molk]

Alrighty guys, i've been wanting to make this nom for a while but i never really got around to it. I'd really like to hear your thoughts on this.

Moltres for S rank, y/n?

Everyone who's faced a Moltres knows just how threatening it can be. It has a massive base 125 Special Attack stat to work with, a good but not great Speed stat that lets it outrun a solid portion of the metagame, and two very high Base Power STABs to work with (Fire Blast and Hurricane) that turn it into an absolute nuke, capable of punching massive holes into most teams with relative ease. If the Pokemon you're switching into Moltres isn't something like AV Slowking or Druddigon, chances are it's going to be in for a world of pain. Life Orb Moltres is an insanely good wallbreaker that gives many slower teams a run for their money, while Choice Scarf Moltres sacrifices some of that power to patch up its Speed stat a little bit, making it a solid revenge killer and quite good at gaining momentum thanks to a combination of its ability to force switches and U-turn. Of course, Moltres isn't an absolutely perfect Pokemon and it *does* have its share of flaws, most notably that nasty 4x weakness to Stealth Rock, but Pokemon such as Gligar and Hitmonlee are quite effective at keeping Stealth Rock off Moltres's side of the field and the payoff of having a full health Moltres is definitely worth it, mitigating this issue somewhat.

Moltres's sheer threat level isn't the only reason i believe that it should be seriously considered for S rank though, i believe that Moltres is a pretty metagame defining Pokemon at the moment, and that's what truely bumps it up into S rank range. Many of the best RU teams are built around this beast, and attempt to support it so it's even more threatening than it usually is when just slapped on. It's also the reason why AV Slowking is so damn common, as it's one of the few Pokemon that can stand up to the fire bird and take repeated hits from it throughout the game, and let's just say that if you don't at least consider Moltres while teambuilding (whether you choose to run a counter like AV Slowking or at least make sure you have ways to check/revenge kill it) you'll probably end up having a bad time.

Of course the inevitable question is why Moltres is S rank and not Delphox. Well aside from the fact that i don't believe that Delphox defines the metagame as much as Moltres does, its access to both Roost (damage on Delphox is permanent, damage on Moltres isn't) and U-turn (makes Scarf Moltres a great way to get momentum as long as rocks aren't up, makes Pursuit support much more exploitable) are both big factors here.

So, thoughts? Is Moltres S rank? If not, why not?

TL;DR Moltres is absurdly threatening and very metagame defining, and it has a few key advantages over Delphox that push it over the cusp of S rank while Delphox stays in A+ imo.

Also, before you use Moltres's 4x weakness to Stealth Rock as a reason why it can *never* be S rank, just think about Yanmega.