Other Mega Doppelgangers

[alexwolf]

I reopened the Mienshao thread. Also, why are you comparing Raikou with Thundurus and Rotom-W when you should be comparing it with Mega Manectric, as the other two can't really check Thunurus, a big reason to pick an Electric-type on offensive teams.

And again, why does it matter if some of the replacements are not the best Pokemon in OU? I really don't get your problem with this thread. We all know that Amoonguss and Mega Venusaur are not the same Pokemon, but there is no point in denying how similar their roles are and how they compete for a teamslot, and those are the kind of comparisons we want to see in this thread.

 

[Yamborski]

I'm aware of Raikou's usefulness on an offensive team, and its effective use on some teams made by top players-- but by no means is it "great", or a top dog of the meta. Also I didn't say "fast electric", but "fast mono electric", because Electric/Flying and Electric/Water obviously come with fantastic defensive merits, and there's reason why THUNDURUS is the top dog of the electric meta, and Raikou/Jolteon are overall good/barely-good mons suffering from poor coverage.

Raikou's physical bulk makes it a pretty flimsy switch-in to Brave Bird spam...



I didn't say there wasn't merit-- if I thought there was absolutely NO merit, I would have locked the thread. However, it's true that as mods we should be concerned if a thread fosters a mistaken or sub-optimal approach to competitive Pokemon; ie. seeing Pokemon for loosely defined roles instead of considering the specific Pokemon, because no matter how "similar" each is distinctly different, and needs to be considered for what it actually is.

I'm not saying there's no merit in volunteering up alternatives, but I think what I said needs consideration-- the thread needs to be careful NOT to mistaken a Mega-mons merit for its role, but for everything it offers, and it needs to not lead to trivial discussions about how similar/dissimilar Landorus-I is to Char-Y, when as you said in your own argument, the two are distinctly different Pokemon that need to be considered differently.

Haxorus and Mega Gyarados are definitely very different mons, and only one of these really needs to be considered at all.

Also Alex, weren't you the one who locked the mienshao thread? Or did it re-open without my awareness?


In any case, I do think this can be an insightful topic-- but needs to keep all of this in perspective. It's just for reference. At the end of the day, a Mega Venusaur is a Mega Venusaur, and an Amoongus isn't.

Stop. Just stop. You aren't even arguing anything.

This is a simple, fun thread. Just let it be. No one is claiming anything is as good as a Mega but this thread is to find mons that can cover for what a mega does as closely as possible. Of course Amoongus isn't a Mega Venusaur. No shit. But they're similar enough that if a player needs a mega slot for something else Amoongus can somewhat cover at least most of the same threats.

 

[Chou Toshio]

I reopened the Mienshao thread. Also, why are you comparing Raikou with Thundurus and Rotom-W when you should be comparing it with Mega Manectric, as the other two can't really check Thunurus, a big reason to pick an Electric-type on offensive teams.

Chou: "Fast Mono-electric is not a great concept/role."

Alex: "What are you talking about, Fast electric is a great role."

Chou: "Well yeah, if you take out the word 'mono' and consider Thundurus is a top-class mon, then you're right but that's not what I said."

And again, why does it matter if some of the replacements are not the best Pokemon in OU? I really don't get your problem with this thread. We all know that Amoonguss and Mega Venusaur are not the same Pokemon, but there is no point in denying how similar their roles are and how they compete for a teamslot, and those are the kind of comparisons we want to see in this thread.

The point is that this thread (or its results) seem mostly oriented towards new players, since experienced players are not going to take this thought-route in team planning. But, if you're making results for newer players, there should be a strong emphasis that its a mega's qualities, and not its role that make it good-- that slapping Haxorus on the team to 'replace' a Mega Gyarados does not guarantee a team is good, or necessarily promote good team building.

Also, KNOWING, as you said, that these Pokemon are inevitably NOT the same as the mon they're supposed to replace-- and will inevitably have play-style defining differences (which Amoongus and Venu certainly have)-- we should acknowledge that comparison is inevitably subjective. We shouldn't be having needlessly critical arguments about what is or isn't more or less close, but instead allow posters to offer up several potential candidates with varying degrees of similarity to the proposed replacee.

 

[alexwolf]

I really don't get what you say or the need for all this overcomplication. Some MEvos fulfill very important roles on some teams, roles that can be replaced by some regular Pokemon to an extend. Where does the subjective thing come from? There is no subjectivity involved when saying that both Mega Venusaur are bulky Grass-types that can both check similar threats. There is no subjectivity in saying that both Raikou and Mega Manectric fulfill the role of birdspam and Thundurus check on offensive teams.

This is just one more role comparisons thread, with a more specific subject. Seems as a very clear concept to me.

 

[Sevifar]

Remember this thread?
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-next-best-thing-v2-latios.3482679/

I've always thought it was a good idea, and with Mega evo's being an important limit on teambuilding, it's actually a great thing to discuss. None of the really viable mega evos can truly be replaced, because if they could then they wouldn't be viable anyway lol.

The replacements don't have to be top OU-viable mons, but rather the BEST possible replacements. Raikou is B in the viability thread but its still the best possible replacement to M-Mane, to do the job that M-Mane would've done. And on that note here's a post about that exact replacement.

Name: Raikou
Replaces: Mega Manectric
Moveset: Raikou @ Expert Belt
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Aura Sphere
- Hidden Power Ice
- Extrasensory/Thunderbolt

Explanation:

Just like Mega-Mane, Raikou comes in and gains momentum with volt switch, revenge kills birdspam, and dosen't care about Thundurus. Expert belt powers up your HP Ice and turns the Landos, Garchomp, Gliscor and other grounds not named Hippowdon into OHKO's. It also lets you OHKO non-av Mamoswine after SR with Aura Sphere. The EV's speed creep adamant Tflame by 1 with the rest in HP for bulk.

Onto the moveset. Volt switch is your go-to momentum gainer. Aura sphere 2HKO's Tyranitar and also hurts Mamoswine and Excadrill who are the only grounds that don't care about HP Ice. HP Ice is important since it lets you safely spam volt switch, considering that you can cleanly OHKO heaps of common grounds that try to nab a free switch. Extrasensory or thunderbolt is preference, the former 2HKO's Venusaur after rocks and the latter is a stronger STAB that dosen't switch you out.

TLDR

The same:
- Checks birdspam
- Gains momentum, racks up chip damage
- Dosen't care about many grounds, Thundy
- Roughly the same SpA with expert belt
- Beats many defoggers/rapid spinners

Worse:
- Has lower speed
- Dosen't outspeed Greninja or Jolly Tflame
- Dosen't beat Scizor
- No OHKO on Excadrill
- No Intimidate

Better:
- Can 2HKO Venusaur + Ttar
- OHKO's Mamo after SR

 

[Mahmudkipz]

Remember this thread?
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/the-next-best-thing-v2-latios.3482679/

I've always thought it was a good idea, and with Mega evo's being an important limit on teambuilding, it's actually a great thing to discuss. None of the really viable mega evos can truly be replaced, because if they could then they wouldn't be viable anyway lol.

The replacements don't have to be top OU-viable mons, but rather the BEST possible replacements. Raikou is B in the viability thread but its still the best possible replacement to M-Mane, to do the job that M-Mane would've done. And on that note here's a post about that exact replacement.

Name: Raikou
Replaces: Mega Manectric
Moveset: Raikou @ Expert Belt
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Aura Sphere
- Hidden Power Ice
- Extrasensory/Thunderbolt

Explanation:

Just like Mega-Mane, Raikou comes in and gains momentum with volt switch, revenge kills birdspam, and dosen't care about Thundurus. Expert belt powers up your HP Ice and turns the Landos, Garchomp, Gliscor and other grounds not named Hippowdon into OHKO's. It also lets you OHKO non-av Mamoswine after SR with Aura Sphere. The EV's speed creep adamant Tflame by 1 with the rest in HP for bulk.

Onto the moveset. Volt switch is your go-to momentum gainer. Aura sphere 2HKO's Tyranitar and also hurts Mamoswine and Excadrill who are the only grounds that don't care about HP Ice. HP Ice is important since it lets you safely spam volt switch, considering that you can cleanly OHKO heaps of common grounds that try to nab a free switch. Extrasensory or thunderbolt is preference, the former 2HKO's Venusaur after rocks and the latter is a stronger STAB that dosen't switch you out.

TLDR

The same:
- Checks birdspam
- Gains momentum, racks up chip damage
- Dosen't care about many grounds, Thundy
- Roughly the same SpA with expert belt
- Beats many defoggers/rapid spinners

Worse:
- Has lower speed
- Dosen't outspeed Greninja or Jolly Tflame
- Dosen't beat Scizor
- No OHKO on Excadrill
- No Intimidate

Better:
- Can 2HKO Venusaur + Ttar
- OHKO's Mamo after SR

You need to be Rash if you run Aura Sphere

 

[haunter]

Raikou @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 32 SpD / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Extrasensory
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Advantages over Mega Manectric:
- can actually switch into Thundurus as LO focus blast does 33.6 - 39.5% and thunderbolt does roughly 20%, while Mega Manectric is 2HKO'd by thunderbolt after SR and almost OHKO'd by focus blast;
- can check Greninja and other special attackers thanks to its respectable SpD and assault vest (LO hydro pump from Greninja does 47% at most). Ironically, it hard counters Mega Manectric;
- can do up to 45% to non SpD Venusaur with extrasensory, which means it can easily wear down a weakened Venusaur;
- you can save your mega slot for something else.

Disadvantages over Mega Manectric:
- pressure is a pretty useless ability and doesn't really help AV Raikou, while intimidate is great for switching into stuff like M-Scizor;
- lack of fire moves means that Raikou loses against Ferrothorn and Excadrill while M-Man has flamthrower/overheat;
- Manectric is faster and has better SpA, although Raikou is fast enough to outspeed most OU special attackers anyway (with the exception of Greninja and Alakazam).

Also, this thread is ok. Listing Pokémon that can replace certain mega evolutions can be useful for team building purposes.

 

[WebBowser]

Hmmm, I'll take a stab at this.

Name: Crawdaunt
Replaces: Mega Hera / Mega Cham
Moveset: Crawdaunt @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Speed
Adamant Nature
- aqua jet
- crabhammer
- knock off
- superpower

Mega Hera and Mega Cham are very similar mons in that nothing is really capable of swapping into them, and they both can break through some of the tiers best walls, but are "easy" to check (which means little when you never have to setup). Meet UU's nightmare, Crawdaunt. Boasting the strongest aqua jets in the game (stronger then banded azu), as well as the most powerful knock off in the game, even bulky neutrals are not going to want to swap into this. Unlike medi or hera, banded crawdaunt can also double up as an effective late game cleaner with those same absurd aqua jets. A few comparison calcs...

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 188-222 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 126-150 (37.7 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 160-189 (47.9 - 56.5%) -- 33.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 201-237 (60.1 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

So in terms of raw power, craw sits somewhere between an unboosted mega hera and mega cham, not bad at all considering that anything eating that knock off loses it's item for the rest of the game. Obviously, skarm outspeeds and can roost stall craw if he's locked into knock off, but that still leaves it open as a free swap in for whatever. Life orb also merits consideration if you want him to be a bit harder to check (prevents weak mons from revenging him with AJ). Like M-Hera, it can also run a respectable SD set, having the advantage of having teh strongest aqua jets in deh entire gaim (prolly outclassed by BD azu in the setup department tho).

It's not a perfect comparison, but I say crawdaunt has enough going for it that it should be considered over cross and cham if a mega slot is needed for something else (those aqua jets are worth their weight in gold imo).

 

[Shayhok]

Name: Thundurus-T
Replaces: Mega Ampharos

Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 104 HP / 252 SpA / 152 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast
- Agility

This set specifically fills in for Amphy's Agility set. The main benefit to using that set on Ampharos is that it is a speed-boosting sweeper immune to paralysis and resists Flying-type, making it a Pokemon not covered by the panic button priority Thundurus-I and Talonflame have to deal with fast sweepers. Because Thundurus-T has higher base speed, it is even harder to be revenge killed after a boost - it outspeeds sand Excadrill (and can OHKO even 252 HP Excadrill with itemless Focus Blast), rain Kingdra, and scarf Keldeo/Terrakion. It also has a ground immunity which can prove to be a valuable asset for setting up. For its item, taking Life Orb damage after Stealth Rock can quickly bring it down into Talonflame range anyway, so Expert Belt and Leftovers are very good choices. Expert Belt guarantees the OHKO after rocks on Thundurus-I with HP Ice where itemless Thunderbolt is a range, and Leftovers can help tank a sequence of priority that hopes to finish you off, or take time to heal up after rocks to live a LO Bisharp Sucker Punch (89% max). As for moves, Thundurus-T can also take advantage of HP Flying and Grass Knot for opponents such as Mega Heracross and Quagsire on bulkier teams, but prefers the coverage above for cleaning offense-oriented teams.

 

[ssjjynx]

Name: Gyarados
Replaces: M-Gyarados
Moveset: M-Gyarados @ leftovers/life orb/lum berry
Ability: Moxie
Evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Hp
Jolly nature
-Waterfall
-Dragon Dance
-Bounce
-Earthquake
Explanation: Gyarados makes just as good a sweeper as its' mega form, having the same speed stat, and an attack stat high enough to not notice a difference due to one of its advantages over its mega: Moxie. With Moxie, as long as Gyarados secures one kill, it can break apart teams without needing extra set-up, as one Dragon Dance is usually all it takes. Gyarados secures just about the same kills as M-Gyarados, with the only exception I can think of being Rotom-W. Another advantage is its freedom of item, being able to have soft recovery through Leftovers, extra power through lo, or 1 time immunity to status via lum, making it much more versatile. And its last advantage is its ability to viably use both its stabs, something M-Gyarados doesn't quite pull off, losing important coverage. Bounce also allows Gyarados to deal with M-Venusaur, a large pain in the back for its mega.
As for the disadvantages, the loss of initial power can prevent Gyarados from securing some important KO's if it doesn't get the chance to set up, and the devasting 4x weakness to electric puts it back a fair few notches. Additionally, M-Gyarados has more bulk, giving it more survivability, and an easier time setting up.
Normal Gyarados may not be quite as effective as its Mega, but if one is looking for a physical sweeper or breaker, and is hard-pressed for a mega slot, Gyarados can still be used over its mega, and thus making a very convincing doppelganger for M-Gyarados.

 

[Celticpride]

Alright, I just made the first major update to the OP. Hopefully I got everything in and everything formatted correctly. Let me know if I forgot anything. Also, small footnote on Raikou, in order to have Aura Sphere it must have a Rash nature (as mentioned before) and be shiny due to an event.

 

[Prosecutor Godot]

Aura Sphere on Raikou really isn't worth it. Specially Defensive Ferrothorn isn't even 2HKOed, Tyranitar a 4x weak isn't OHKOed either and you lose out on Raikou's great speed which is the #1 reason it's good and you're outsped by the Lati twins, Keldeo, Terrakion, Mega-Pinsir, Gengar and Garchomp. Leave it out of the OP IMO

 

[Zebstrika]

I'm too tired to do any super nice looking write ups now, but I have a couple:

Alakazam

Alakazam @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature

----->

Alakazam @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature


Timid Life Orb Alakazam is very close in speed and power to Modest Mega Alakazam (it misses out on outspeeding Greninja, Tornadus-T, and Weavile, and it has about 3% less power). Main difference is it trades Trace for permanent Magic Guard, and has a little less base defense which hurts vs priority attacks.

Mega Garchomp

Mega Garchomp
Mixed
########
name: Mixed
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Draco Meteor
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Stone Edge
ability: Rough Skin
item: Garchompite
nature: Naughty
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

---->

Kyurem-B
Specially Based Mixed Attacker
########
name: Specially Based Mixed Attacker
move 1: Ice Beam
move 2: Fusion Bolt
move 3: Earth Power
move 4: Roost / Outrage
item: Life Orb
nature: Mild / Rash
evs: 56 Atk / 252 SpA / 200 Spe

Sets ripped straight out of their analyses (KyuB, Garchomp).

Kyurem-B is similar to Mega Garchomp. They both are good wall breakers with equal mixed attacking stats, nice neutral coverage, strong Outrages/Draco Meteors, decent base 90s speed and great natural bulk. Mega Garchomp gets a power boost from sand and can Swords Dance, while Kyurem-B can hold an item like Life Orb to compensate. Mega Garchomp has the better defensive typing, while Kyurem-B gets access to Roost.

 

[NotACoolName]

Name: Skarmory
Replaces: Aggron-Mega
Moveset:
Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Stealth Rock
- Defog
Explanation: Despite being much less bulky (Skarm's 65 HP/140 Def compared to Agg's 70 HP/230 Def), Skarmory can still wall (or tank 2-3 hits) from most OU physical attackers (see calc). Skarmory and Aggron has a lot in common, however Skarmory has Flying type which nullifies Steel's Fighting and Ground weakness. Skarmory also has Roost to heal itself and Defog to clear out hazards.

Calcs

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 118-141 (34.3 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 158-186 (47.3 - 55.6%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Mega Aggron: 56-66 (16.2 - 19.1%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 135-160 (40.4 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Mega Aggron: 60-72 (17.4 - 20.9%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 97-115 (29 - 34.4%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 271-321 (78.7 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 123-144 (36.8 - 43.1%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[HNA]

Name: Skarmory
Replaces: Aggron-Mega
Moveset:
Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Stealth Rock
- Defog
Explanation: Despite having less bulky (Skarm's 65 HP/140 Def compared to Agg's 70 HP/230 Def), Skarmory can still wall most OU physical attackers (see calc). Skarmory and Aggron has a lot in common, however Skarmory has Flying type which nullifies Steel's Fighting and Ground weakness. Skarmory also has Roost to heal itself and Defog to clear out hazards.

Calcs

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Aggron: 396-468 (115.1 - 136%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 158-186 (47.3 - 55.6%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Aggron: 127-151 (36.9 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 135-160 (40.4 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Aggron: 76-90 (22 - 26.1%) -- 5.3% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 97-115 (29 - 34.4%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

On your calc you used Aggron and not Mega Aggron.

 

[Sun King]

Name: Skarmory
Replaces: Aggron-Mega
Moveset:
Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Stealth Rock
- Defog
Explanation: Despite being much less bulky (Skarm's 65 HP/140 Def compared to Agg's 70 HP/230 Def), Skarmory can still wall (or tank 2-3 hits) from most OU physical attackers (see calc). Skarmory and Aggron has a lot in common, however Skarmory has Flying type which nullifies Steel's Fighting and Ground weakness. Skarmory also has Roost to heal itself and Defog to clear out hazards.

Calcs

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 118-141 (34.3 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 158-186 (47.3 - 55.6%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Mega Aggron: 56-66 (16.2 - 19.1%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 135-160 (40.4 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Mega Aggron: 60-72 (17.4 - 20.9%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 97-115 (29 - 34.4%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 271-321 (78.7 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 123-144 (36.8 - 43.1%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

I really don't like this one. Mega-Aggron is a physical tank that can set up rocks, phase, or spread paralysis; Skarmory is a physical wall that can set up rocks, defog, and/or taunt other slow walls. Really the only thing they share is immense physical bulk that sets up SR. Because Skarmory has Roost, it's entirely self sufficient; Mega Aggron requires a full cleric core to keep it alive throughout the match. This is a case of your mega being entirely inferior to your replacement.

Additionally, that Skarmory set is pretty outdated. Most are running either Brave Bird or Counter over Whirlwind, because Skarmory NEEDS to be able to counter certain threats like Mega Pinsir. Some don't even run SR because they'd rather run Taunt to prevent other Defoggers or set up sweepers.

 

[M BLADE]

A better replacement for Mega Aggron is Rhyperior:

Name: Rhyperior
Replaces: Aggron-Mega
Moveset:
Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
Evs:212 HP / 44 Atk / 252 Def
Adamant nature
-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Megahorn/Ice Punch

Explanation: Huge physical defense, able to hit hard, sets SR up, both can't heal themselves outside of rest, and even it's abilities are pratically the same (Filter and Solid Rock are the same shit). Definitions of a physical tank (Skarmory is more like a wall).

It's advantages are: better STAB combination (running only STABs is totally fine since it gets great coverage anyway), able to check physical fire types like nobody's business, can get a Sandstorm boost and actually be kinda bulky on the special side too.
Disvantages are numerous: MUCH worse typing defensively, can't spread paralysis, can't check as much pokes as Mega Aggron can, takes more damage on neutral physical attacks it's supposed to take, etc

 

[G-Von]

Name: Garchomp

Replaces: Mega Garchomp

Moveset:
Garchomp @ Expert Belt/Life Orb
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Attk / 252 Spe / 4 SpA
Naive Nature
- Outrage/Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge/Rock Slide
- Fire Blast

Explanation: Mega Garchomp is supposed to break down defensive cores thanks in part of its mixed attacking power. Garchomp can do this as well thanks to Expert Belt that boosts SE moves by 20%. Not only that, but Garchomp's speed tier is far superior than that of M-Garchomp. I noticed a lot of things that like to switch into Garchomp are Togekiss, Skarmory, Hippowdon, Cloyster, and to lesser extents Breloom and Chestnaught as revenge killers. Togekiss gets mauled by Stone Edge, while Skarmory, Cloyster, Breloom, and Chestnaught all get hit hard by Fire Blast. Also, Garchomp does not have to rely on Draco Meteor to weaken these physical walls and cut its Special Attack in half unlike M-Garchomp. Hippowdon and Gliscor are probably the two best switch-ins for this Garchomp, but if it runs LO over EB, than both SpD Hippo and Gliscor get 2HKO'd by Outrage and Defensive Gliscor has a quarter of a chance to get 2HKO's after SR. I haven't been too active battling recently but EB Garchomp is one of my favorite mons to use since a lot of people rage quit after Togekiss gets OHKO'd by Stone Edge, and after not losing any HP thanks to EB, people think it's choiced locked and send out Breloom just for it to die to Fire Blast.

 

[Lolme]

Name: Garchomp

Replaces: Mega Garchomp

Moveset:
Garchomp @ Expert Belt/Life Orb
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Attk / 252 Spe / 4 SpA
Naive Nature
- Outrage/Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge/Rock Slide
- Fire Blast

Explanation: Mega Garchomp is supposed to break down defensive cores thanks in part of its mixed attacking power. Garchomp can do this as well thanks to Expert Belt that boosts SE moves by 20%. Not only that, but Garchomp's speed tier is far superior than that of M-Garchomp. I noticed a lot of things that like to switch into Garchomp are Togekiss, Skarmory, Hippowdon, Cloyster, and to lesser extents Breloom and Chestnaught as revenge killers. Togekiss gets mauled by Stone Edge, while Skarmory, Cloyster, Breloom, and Chestnaught all get hit hard by Fire Blast. Also, Garchomp does not have to rely on Draco Meteor to weaken these physical walls and cut its Special Attack in half unlike M-Garchomp. Hippowdon and Gliscor are probably the two best switch-ins for this Garchomp, but if it runs LO over EB, than both SpD Hippo and Gliscor get 2HKO'd by Outrage and Defensive Gliscor has a quarter of a chance to get 2HKO's after SR. I haven't been too active battling recently but EB Garchomp is one of my favorite mons to use since a lot of people rage quit after Togekiss gets OHKO'd by Stone Edge, and after not losing any HP thanks to EB, people think it's choiced locked and send out Breloom just for it to die to Fire Blast.

I was wondering if some more "customized" sets could be used to mirror the mega that the pokemon is trying to imitate. In Chomps case, using a slower EV spread with investment in SAtk to make for the lower base of Chomp.

Side note: while checking calcs to make sure that the speed EVs put them on the same speed tier I noticed that LO Chomp tends to hit as hard as MChomp in almost any scenario under equal grounds (ie. Max SAtk Fire Blast vs SDef Skarmory or Max Atk Outrage vs SDef Gliscor), is there any point in trying to replace MChomp with Non-MChomp when its non-mega is superior in most scenarios? perhaps something like Kyurem B or Salamance could make for a closer Doppelganger.

 

[nmitchell890]

I think that Kyurem-B is a better comparison to Mega Garchomp. Garchomp loves its speed tier and its ability to use items like Choice Scarf, often it plays very differently to Mega Garchomp who is seen as a wallbreaker. Kyurem-B and Mega Garchomp play more similar roles in teams IMO, both being wallbreakers with high bulk and extreme attacking power. Yes their typing is different and yes they lure different checks (you wouldn't switch Gliscor into Kyurem-B I hope) but their role is the same.

 

[Karxrida]

A better replacement for Mega Aggron is Rhyperior:

Name: Rhyperior
Replaces: Aggron-Mega
Moveset:
Rhyperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
Evs:252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant nature
-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Megahorn

Explanation: Huge physical defense, able to hit hard, sets SR up, both can't heal themselves outside of rest, and even it's abilities are pratically the same (Filter and Solid Rock are the same shit). Definitions of a physical tank (Skarmory is more like a wall).

It's advantages are: better STAB combination (only running STABs is totally fine since it gets great coverage anyway), able to check physical fire types like nobody's business, can get a Sandstorm boost and actually be kinda bulky on the special side too.
Disvantages are numerous: MUCH worse typing defensively, can't spread paralysis, can't check as much pokes as Mega Aggron can, takes more damage on neutral physical attacks it's supposed to take, etc

You should probably be using the set on the calculator, which runs 212 HP, 44 Attack, and 252 Defense with Adamant. You still KO everything you need to, but you now counter any Mega Zard X set without Will-O-Wisp.

44+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 300-354 (90 - 106.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Rhyperior: 187-222 (44.1 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 178-210 (41.9 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[MANNAT]

Name: Seismitoad
Replaces: Swampert-Mega
Moveset:
Seismitoad @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast

Explanation: It actually hits harder than mega swampert under rain and is 4 stat points faster than mega swampert under rain. Mega swampert often takes up a mega slot you could use for a better mega like mega metagross, whose fire weakness is removed by rain, so seismitoad is an excellent replacement. However, seismitoad's bulk is a lot worse than mega swampert.

Pros:
- Faster Speed
- Hits Harder
- Higher HP

Cons:
- 105/75/75 defense
- Inaccurate sweeping moves

calcs

252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew in Rain: 289-341 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Mega Swampert Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew in Rain: 240-283 (70.3 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[The Big Aristotle]

Seismitoad fills a different than M-Swampert (special sweeper vs. physical sweeper) and is heavily outclassed by Kingdra in that role anyways.

A better comparison to M-Swampert would be Kabutops, which I'll do a writeup for in a sec.

Edit:
Name: Kabutops
Replaces: M-Swampert
Moveset:
Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance / Low Kick
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Aqua Jet

Advantages over M-Swampert
- STAB priority in Aqua Jet
- Access to Swords Dance lets it break through walls Swampert can't
- Better STAB coverage
- Hits slightly harder than M-Swampert with LO equipped

Disadvantages over M-Swampert
- Much less bulk/weak to priority (especially Mach Punch)
- No Electric immunity
- Weaknesses to common attacking types in Ground and Fighting

Calcs:
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory in Rain: 148-175 (44.3 - 52.3%) -- 79.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Swampert Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory in Rain: 136-162 (40.7 - 48.5%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 179-212 (49.8 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Swampert Earthquake vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 168-198 (46.7 - 55.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[boltsandbombers]

Seismitoad fills a different than M-Swampert (special sweeper vs. physical sweeper) and is heavily outclassed by Kingdra in that role anyways.

A better comparison to M-Swampert would be Kabutops, which I'll do a writeup for in a sec.

Edit:
Name: Kabutops
Replaces: M-Swampert
Moveset:
Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Aqua Jet

Advantages over M-Swampert
- STAB priority in Aqua Jet
- Access to Swords Dance lets it break through walls Swampert can't
- Better STAB coverage
- Hits slightly harder than M-Swampert with LO equipped

Disadvantages over M-Swampert
- Much less bulk/weak to priority (especially Mach Punch)
- No Electric immunity
- Weaknesses to common attacking types in Ground and Fighting

Calcs:
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory in Rain: 148-175 (44.3 - 52.3%) -- 79.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Swampert Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory in Rain: 136-162 (40.7 - 48.5%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 179-212 (49.8 - 59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Swampert Earthquake vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 168-198 (46.7 - 55.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

I don't honestly see why you would run a Kabutops without Low Kick, as it prevents you from being walled by Ferrothorn and to some extent Empoleon, which is really important. Both Kabutops and Mega Swampert have access to Low Kick, which may be something to note.

 

[The Big Aristotle]

I don't honestly see why you would run a Kabutops without Low Kick, as it prevents you from being walled by Ferrothorn and to some extent Empoleon, which is really important. Both Kabutops and Mega Swampert have access to Low Kick, which may be something to note.

I'll slash it with Swords Dance. IMO SD is the better set (boosting gives it a niche over Swampert/Kingdra) but, since we're trying to make it as close to Swampert as possible, Low Kick should probably be in mentioned.