Celebi QC (2/3) Writing

Taken over from ForgottenOnes



QC Checks: Valentine / alexwolf /

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Overview
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-Solid 100 all around stats
-Large movepool, including Baton Pass and Nasty Plot
-Nice ability in Natural Cure
-Lots of common weaknesses
-Versatile

Specially Defensive
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name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Psychic
move 3: Recover
move 4: Stealth Rock / Heal Bell
ability: Natural Cure
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 220 SpD / 36 Spe
nature: Calm

Moves
========

- Baton Pass is mainly for escaping Pursuit trappers, but can also be used to swap out during the turn and maintain momentum.
- Psychic is the only attacking move and STAB used on this set and allows the user to hit a wide variety of Pokemon.
- Recover is for longevity, to make sure you can stay alive to continue to set up hazards or induce status.
- Celebi makes good use of Stealth Rocks as it is one of the only Grass type Pokemon with this move.
- Heal Bell can be used to keep the team healthy and Celebi is one of the only clerics that fits into Hyper Offensive teams.
- Perish Song can be used if you are in need of an answer to set up sweepers such as Calm Mind Clefable.
- Nasty Plot can also be used on this set as it pairs exceptionally well with Baton Pass and can pass +2 Special Attack to a teammate.
- Healing Wish is absolutely great when paired with offensive sweepers as it fully heals them at the expense of Celebi's life.
- Perish Song can be used to stop setup sweepers, Baton pass, etc

Set Details
========

- Leftovers is for passive recovery every turn.
- Maximize HP in order to increase survivability.
- 36 EVs go into Speed to out pace most Bisharp and Tyranitar variants and Baton Pass out before they can Pursuit trap.
- The rest go into Special Defense to rank hits from OU powerhouses like Keldeo or Landorus.
- Calm increases Special Defense at the expense of Attack.
- Natural Cure is the only ability Celebi gets, but it makes great use of it absorbing status over and over.
- SpD spread can be used

Usage Tips
========

- Use Stealth Rock or Thunder Wave after swapping in on something you force out, such as Keldeo. You get what are commonly referred to as free turns and can make use of this by setting up hazards or crippling an incoming threat.
- Use Baton Pass if you feel the opponent is going to swap out or if you think they will try and trap you. Baton Pass bypasses Pursuit as it occurs during the turn and not before.
- You don't find too many free turns to work with, but use them all quite well by having moves like Heal Bell, Recover or Nasty Plot.
- This set can swap in numerous times on Pokemon like Rotom-Wash, Keldeo, and Landorus but make sure to scout for moves like Knock Off or Icy Wind beforehand.

Team Options
========

- Set up sweepers such as Azumarill or Mega Charizard X can repeatedly set up and don't have to worry about getting statused if Celebi is packing Heal Bell.
- Offensive sand teams really appreciate a water resist and an offensive Grass type as well as the fact that it compliments Keldeo, Landorus, and Tyranitar extremely well.
- Dark or Fighting types pair well with Celebi; specifically Bisharp and Keldeo as they resist all of Celebi's weaknesses and threaten a lot of Celebi's checks and counters.
- Specially offensive threats like Keldeo or Landorus also appreciate a necessary a nice +2 in Special Attack if Celebi is using a Nasty Pass set and make great use of a boost as they are already quite fast.
- Bulky Electric types really help against bird spam teams and most can also be solid Nasty Plot receivers.


Physically Defensive
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name: Physically Defensive
move 1: Giga Drain
move 2: Substitute / Stealth Rock / Thunder Wave
move 3: Recover
move 4: Baton Pass
ability: Natural Cure
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spe
nature: Bold

Moves
========

- Giga Drain is a reliable STAB move, and allows it to stall out foes such as Excadrill and Rotom-W
- Substitute is used to avoid status, and Celebi is bulky enough to pass it on to a teammate without it breaking.
- Steath Rock for hazards, helping team wear down opponents
- Thunder Wave can be used to cripple faster threats to allow your own to have a greater shot at sweeping. Thanks to its typing, Celebi resists both Ground and Electric, the two types that are immune to parlysis, making it an exceptionally good paralysis spreader.
- recover for reliable recovery
- baton pass to switch out, momentum, avoid pursuit

Set Details
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- Maximized Physical bulk to beat Azumarill and Excadrill better
- Speed to outrun Bisharp
- Bold for defense increase
- Natural cure status absorb
- A specially defensive spread can be used to better del with things like Thundurus, Latios, Latias, Starmie, Kingdra, and Omastar.

Usage Tips
========

- Predict switches, sr/sub/bp for momentum
- Always recover when low on health
- Is able to switch in multiple times against Rotom-W, Keldeo, Azumarill, Excadrill
- Try to keep Scizor, Talonflame, Bisharp, and other threats off the field

Team Options
========

- Fire-types such as Charizard, Talonflame, and Heatran appreciate Celebi removing Ground-, Rock-, and Water-types, while they beat Pokemon such as Scizor, and Bisharp in return.
- Water-types beat Fire-types; Keldeo especially beats Scizor, Fire-types, Dark-types.
- Bulky Special Walls like Chansey form good defensive cores.

Life Orb
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name: Life Orb
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Earth Power / Hidden Power Fire
move 3: Thunder Wave / Psychic
move 4: Recover
ability: Natural Care
item: Life Orb
evs: 232 HP / 240 SpA / 36 Spe
nature: Modest

Moves
========

-Leaf Storm is easily the best move of the set, allowing it to OHKO a lot of Pokemon that give Celebi's defensive sets trouble, such as Landorus-T, Assault Vest Azumarill, Garchomp, Calm Mind Clefable, and Pursuit Tyranitar
-Earth Power is for Heatran, cleanly OHKOing even specially defensive Heatran after Stealth Rock and for OHKOing Bisharp that tries to come in to Pursuit-trap.
-HP Fire on the other hand destroys Scizor and its Mega (the latter after Stealth Rocks), and allows Celebi to beat Ferrothorn.
-Thunder Wave prevents you from being set up bait after Leaf Storm SpA drop, while Psychic allows you to OHKO Venusaur, Thundurus after Stealth Rock damage, and 2HKO specially defensive Gliscor, who cannot do much in return.
-Recover is a reliable source of recovery, and allows Celebi multiple switch-in opportunities and improves its longevity.
-Healing Wish is absolutely great when paired with offensive sweepers as it fully heals them at the expense of Celebi's life, and is best used when Celebi is disposable.

Set Details
========

-36 Spe for Ttar factoring the imperfect Spe IVs, 232 HP to round down LO recoil, and rest in SpA.
-Natural cure to repeatedly absorb status, heals from it upon switch
-Life Orb to hit opponents really hard
-Modest to boost Special Attack

Usage Tips
========

-Celebi is mainly used to eliminate bulky Water- and Ground-types, such as Slowbro, Suicune, and Hippowdon, as well as more offensively based ones such as Excadrill and Azumarill.
-If running low on health, recover
-Try not to let it die, as typically it will be an important Pokemon on the team.

Team Options
========

- Offensive sand teams really appreciate a water resist and an offensive Grass type as well as the fact that it compliments Keldeo, Landorus, Excadrill, and Tyranitar extremely well.
- Dark or Fighting types pair well with Celebi; specifically Bisharp and Keldeo as they resist all of Celebi's weaknesses and threaten a lot of Celebi's checks and counters.
- Bulky Electric types really help against bird spam teams.
- Fire-types such as Heatran and Mega Charizard X make good teammates, as they can beat Pokemon such as Scizor and Bisharp for Celebi, while Celebi beats Water-types such as Kelde and Azumarill in return.

Nasty Plot
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name: Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Giga Drain
move 3: Psychic
move 4: Earth Power / Baton Pass
ability: Natural Cure
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
evs: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========

- Psychic is Celebi's main STAB move providing coverage on a wide variety of Pokemon, including a Mega Venusaur and Fighting-types.
- Giga Drain is a great secondary STAB and reliable form of recovery, hitting Water-, Rock-, and Ground-types such as Rotom-W, Azumarill, Terrakion, Slowbro, and Hippowdon.
- Nasty Plot enables you to boost your Special Attack by two stages and proceed to blow holes in your opponents team.
- Earth Power offers you a way to hit Pokemon that normally wall or threaten you such as Heatran and Bisharp.
- Baton Pass is used to pass stat boosts to pokemon such as Keldeo and Landorus
- Hidden Power Fire can be used over Earth Power if you lack a decent Scizor swap in or want to lure him out and kill him for a teammate.

Set Details
========

- Life Orb allows you to hit the hardest you possibly can while still being able to choose which move you want to use each turn.
- Natural Cure is its only ability, but allows Celebi to not be stopped by status', but also absorb status for teammates.
- The EVs are typical and aim to try and out speed anything you can while still hitting like a truck.
- Timid Nature is used to gain plenty of Speed.
- A bulkier spread can be used as a bulky passer

Usage Tips
========

- Use Nasty Plot on a turn where you force your opponent out to get up easy boosts.
- This set requires little prediction and is easy to use as it is based on a simple concept, boost and kill.
- Celebi can switch in on most Water-types, including Azumaril, Rotom-W, and Keldeo.
- Remove major threats such as Scizor and Bisharp before attempting a sweep, as they can stop Celebi in its tracks.

Team Options
========

- Keldeo makes a good teammate as it takes on Fire- and Dark-types that pose a threat to Celebi, such as Bisharp and Mega Charizard.
- Talonflame makes an exceptional partner to this set because it lures in Rotom-Wash and Heatran that Celebi can take down, while Celebi lures in Mega Scizor which Talonflame can easily dispose of.
- Heatran makes for an excellent teammate, as it can dispose of Mega Scizor with relative ease, while Celebi can handle Water-types like Keldeo and Azumarill for Heatran.

Other Options
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- Magic Coat can be used on the Specially Defensive set to bounce back moves like Taunt, which severely hurts that set.
- U-turn is a cool, hipster move to run because it allows you to gain momentum and do damage at the same time, but is generally outclassed by Baton Pass because you don't have to worry about your Attack EVs as much.
- Leech Seed can be used if you want more recovery than just Leftovers and can be great for whittling down opponents in preparation for a late game sweep, along with Substitute.
- Swords Dance set can be used, with Seed Bomb, Zen Headbutt, and Sucker Punch.
- Rest can be used to take advantage of Celebi's awesome ability, Natural Cure, as a great source of recovery.

Checks & Counters
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**Bug-types**: If you don't use Hidden Power Fire or if you don't have multiple boosts up, you will have a tough time defeating Mega Scizor. It has high bulk, reliable recovery, and multiple moves that are super effective to Celebi, including U-turn which will always OHKO. (Add megacross)

**Flying-types**: Talonflame has priority on all of its Flying type moves and usually carries three attacks that all hit Celebi for super effective damage. If you can predict a Roost and Earth Power it or predict it to swap in and Psychic, then you have a chance of beating it. Other than that it's just a miserable match up. Skarmory can set up hazards, phaze out Celebi, Taunt it, or simply attack it if it packs Brave Bird without the slightest concern if Celebi isn't carrying Hidden Power Fire. Skarmory takes next to no damage from any of its other moves and can simply Roost off any hazard or passive damage that racked up earlier on in the match. (Add torn, mpinsir)

**Taunt**: Things like Sableye or Thundurus can cause massive trouble for the Specially Defensive version of Celebi. Three quarters of its moves are non attacking moves and both of these Pokemon can Taunt Celebi well before it's able to use any of them. Fortunately in Thundurus' case it is still somewhat damaged by Psychic, but Sableye has Psychic immunity meaning it completely counters that set and forces it out.

**Fire-types**: If Celebi doesn't run Earth Power, it is brutally beaten by Heatran as Lava Plume hits Celebi hard. Heatran completely counters Celebi if it is running Air Balloon, and can even Roar away any stat boosts. (Add victini, zard)

**Dark-types** Bisharp, Greninja, Tyranitar

**Poison-types**: Gengar, Mega Venusaur
 
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I am not QC, but the order should really go:

*Physically Defensive
*Bulky Nasty Plot
*Life Orb (with Leaf Storm)
*Maybe Specially Defensive

*Offensive Nasty Plot in OO

Offensive Nasty Plot is usually just wasting your time because Celebi is supposed to be used to handle things like Keldeo, Thundurus, and Landorus, which it cannot do without some investment in bulk. Offensive Nasty Plot was usable was Aegislash was around because it could actually lure it in and OHKO it with a +2 Earth Power, but now Aegis is gone, so it really is not worth the slot.

I would heavily mention Nasty Plot / Swords Dance in the defensive sets because Celebi can pull it off really well while still checking things like Keldeo. Always boosting move + Psychic STAB instead of Grass STAB to hit Breloom and Thundurus reliably.

Also remove all mentions of Aegislash, since it is banned now.
 
Thought I got all aegi mentions, whereabouts do you see it? Also in regards to set order id like qc to give input before changing those. Thanks though Alfalfa.
 

aim

pokeaimMD
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Slash leftovers next to the nasty plot set as the recovery is definitely something worth having

I'd say add a physically defensive sub celebi set as well as it basically counters excadrill with sub bp gigadrain recover. passing subs from pokemon like scizor into charizards/heatrans for example is extremely solid
Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Recover
- Baton Pass
- Giga Drain
 
Mention that Physically Defensive also beats Landorus-I lacking Sludge Wave, which is one of the main reasons you would use Physically Defensive Celebi:
0 Atk Life Orb Landorus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 180+ Def Celebi: 169-200 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- 23.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
 
Basically I agree with what Alfalfa has mentioned in terms of order of the sets. PDef is easily its best set, checking weather offense, AV Azu, and the deadly GyaraGoth core.
Bulky NP is much better than Offensive NP on Celebi because Offensive NP loses out on its ability to check several dangerous threats, which is the whole point to even use Celebi.

Bulky Life Orb is a really useful set to bait all the stuff that likes to come in to give Celebi trouble, while still maintaining a decent bulk to check threats effectively even with just HP EVs. I don't really have a say whether this set should be before or after the SDef set, but it is really effective. Here's the set in question:
Celebi @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 232 HP / 240 SpA / 36 Spe
Modest Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Earth Power / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Thunder Wave / Psychic
- Recover
Leaf Storm is easily the best move of the set, allowing it to OHKO a lot of stuff that gives its defensive sets trouble, like Landorus-T, AV Azumarill, Garchomp, CM Clefable, Pursuit Ttar. Earth Power is for Heatran, cleanly OHKOing even SDef Heatran after SR, and for OHKOing Bisharp that tries to come in to Pursuit-trap. HP Fire on the other hand destroys Scizor and its Mega (the latter after Stealth Rocks), and hard counters Ferrothorn. Thunder Wave prevents you from being set up bait after Leaf Storm SpA drop, but Psychic allows you to OHKO Venusaur, and Thundurus after SR, and 2HKO SDef Gliscor, who cannot do much in return. 36 Spe for Ttar factoring the imperfect Spe IVs, 232 HP to round down LO recoil, and rest in SpA.
Mention to use 32 Spe EVs instead of 36 if you are not running HP Fire, because 32 already outspeeds every unScarfed Ttar, and 36 doesn't outspeed anything else other than 32 Spe Celebi. That applies for the defensive sets as well. It is also a good idea to mention 64 Spe on the set details of defensive sets to allow it to outspeed all unScarfed Gothitelle, which is pretty neat, and allow you to Baton Pass out before it Trick the Specs.
 

Albacore

sludge bomb is better than sludge wave
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Oh yeah there definitely needs to be a Phys Def set, I've been using it a lot and I can definitely confirm it's effectiveness. I'd even make it the 1st set since it's pretty much the best set atm due to just how much stuff it deals with.

A few details/jump points regarding phys def Celebi:
  • 172 Defense with a Bold nature lets you take 2 Iron Heads from LO Excadrill in sand after rocks. 196 Defense lets you take Stone edge from Life Orb Terrakion, but I don't think there are any other jump points beyond that.
  • 48 SpD lets you live LO HP Ice from Thundurus-I. Once again, don't think you really need more SpD than that.
  • 16 Speed outspeeds Adamant Bisahrp, only relevant if Baton Pass is one of the moves on the set
  • 80 Speed outspeeds Adamant Diggersby, making it so much easier to deal with. Might seem like a lot of speed but i'd recommend it if you're using Celebi as your check to it (you have to really wary of Scarf U-Turn but Sash is the most common set atm and the speed helps a ton vs that.)
  • Phys Def Celebi needs Giga Drain>Psychic to hit the likes of Azumarill, MGyara, Excadrill (doesn't hit it hard but at least hits it) Crawdaunt and Diggersby. Also Breloom can't really touch you at all unless it's SD+Rock Tomb which doesn't exist, so you're free to just Giga Drain it to death really.
Make of all this what you will, I'd personally have 252 HP / 192 Def / 44 SpD / 16 Speed as the main spread, and 252 HP / 172 Def / 80 Speed, remaining 4 EVs wherever in set details
 
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Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Seed Bomb should be listed for a Physically Defensive set. Even with a Bold nature it's a guaranteed 2HKO on AV Azumarill (which Giga Drain can't do) while a Attack neutral nature lets it 2HKO ScarTar after Rocks (Bold has an 87.1% chance), which imo is pretty cool since ScarfTar will switch into you without any hesitation.
 
Alright Jukain, ready now. Some sections are pretty rough outlines, but I think I got all basic info. Will definitely polish a lot during write-up. Get @ me qc

Also I put spdef set in hide tags because I'm not 100% sure about its viability. Would like input. Phys def is just so much better
 
There is no mention here of Swords Dance / Nasty Plot + Baton Pass. This should be mentioned in Celebi's physically defensive set.
 

alexwolf

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In the overview, i would change the phrase ''poor defensive typing'' to ''lots of common weaknesses''.

On any set with Thunder Wave, explain that Celebi is a great paralysis spreader, because most Ground and Electric types don't want to switch into Celebi.

On the first set, include a SpD spread in set details, to better deal with stuff such as Thundurus, Latios, Latias, Starmie, Kingdra, and Omastar.

Include Perish Song in the Moves section of the first set, it's nice to beat CM Suicune, CM Clefable, and BP chains.

Mention Healing Wish in the Moves section of the offensive set, it's a good option for HO teams, over Recover.

You are missing many checks and counters, such as Bisharp, Gengar, Victini, Tornadus-T, Mega Pinsir, Mega Heracross, Mega Venusuar, and Kyurem-B. Also, divide better your checks and counters, as currently you have just listed separately some counters, and then put the rest of them together for no apparent reason. The best way to divide them would be by typing. And i would remove Ferrothorn, it's just set up bait for most sets, and even the defensive set can take advantage of it by setting up a Sub and passing it to a teammate.

QC APPROVED 2/3
 

tehy

Banned deucer.
Include Perish Song in the Moves section of the first set, it's nice to beat CM Suicune, CM Clefable, and BP chains.
So with this being said, i'd actually like to submit something i've been using for a while now, and which does the job better than Perish Song, for the most part.

Basically, defensive celebi, but where Sub/Sr goes, i use Calm Mind instead. Since Celebi is already using baton pass, you don't have to go out of your way for this or anything.

Right off the bat, suicune loses, so do most manaphy, especially the ones most threatening to stall, like rd tail glow and rd rest cm, and also subcm keldeo. Most modern bp chains rely on a boosted espeon, but celebi (mine was SpD but phys. D should be able to as well) can just outboost this, usually by boosting alongside smeargle.

Clefable's a bit trickier, since you need something you can bp max boosts to and defeat it (both of you at +6/+6). However, if you didn't have something like this, then perish song is, for the most part, just delaying the inevitable.

Meanwhile, cm also lets you make semi-wincons out of pokemon like zapdos, slowbro, heatran. Even physical walls like gliscor, skarmory, alomomola, can occasionally just wall everything and win.

Overall the win condition thing isn't happening too often, but cm is mostly for the above threats, the occasional bulky sweep is just a bonus.
 
A few nitpicky things:

- U-turn is a cool, hipster move to run because it allows you to gain momentum and do damage at the same time, but is generally outclassed by Baton Pass because you don't have to worry about your Attack EVs as much.
Also mention that U-turn doesn't let Celebi avoid Pursuit

**Super Effective STAB Attacks**: Due to Celebi having an extraordinary amount of weaknesses, super effective STAB moves such as Greninja's Ice Beam, Charizard's Fire Blast or Flare Blitz, Bisharp's Knock Off, Pursuit, and Sucker Punch, and Gengar's Shadow Ball and Sludge Bomb, among others, can all dismantle Celebi with relative ease.
afaik, Gengar uses Sludge Wave>Sludge Bomb
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
There needs to be a Scarf set.

Choice Scarf
########
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: U-turn
move 3: Psyhic
move 4: Earth Power/Healing Wish
ability: Natural Cure
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid/Modest

The main difference between Timid and Modest is whether or not you want to outspeed Scarf Lando-T and Jolly Scarf Excadrill. I've never used this set but it lets you check or revenge Mega Gyarados, Greninja, Mega Manectric (you need Modest for a good chance to OHKO after Rocks), Mega Lopunny, Choice-locked Keldeo, Mega Diancie, and Gengar. You also break the Subs of Mega Sceptile even with a -Atk nature.
 
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alexwolf

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Healing Wish should be slashed with Earth Power and Modest should be the first slash, because Celebi is already pretty weak, so it needs all the power it can get.
 

Albacore

sludge bomb is better than sludge wave
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Okay, I don't think a fully physically defensive spread is optimal anymore, Celebi usually wants a mixed defensive spread to handle threats from both side of the spectrum. I usually run 120 SpD with Bold in order to take Specs Icy Wind from Keldeo after SR, it still deals with most physical attackers Celebi wants to handle pretty well. You can also run up to 128 Calm for taking 2 Moonblasts from Rash Diancie after SR but I'm personally not a fan of this since you lose a ton of physical bulk in the process (for example, you can't emergency check Metagross anymore, Band Azumarill Knock Off OHKOs after SR, Kabutops 2HKOs, Swampert 2HKOs with Ice Punch, Excadrill 2HKOs after sand and rocks, just to name a few things you miss out on).
Outspeeding Diggersby is nice but it compromises your bulk so I don't think running this much speed is that great an option, Diggersby isn't common enough for it to be worth it imo, I would go back the the 36 Speed benchmark. If Defensive Celebi decides to run a large amount of speed 108 is the benchmark you should hit to outspeed Jolly Bisharp.

Also, I think Nasty Plot and Perish Song should be slashed on the first set. Both of these enable you to deal with CM sweepers such as Slowbro and Clefable and also lets you somewhat threaten CM Mega Sableye who otherwise uses you as setup fodder very easily. Nasty Plot has better synergy with Baton Pass for obvious reasons but Perish Song has a number of perks over it like phazing offensive sweepers as well, not requiring you to use up as many turns and getting past CM Unaware Clefable.

Finally, imo the LO set should at least run enough speed for Jolly Mamoswine (that's 196 with a Modest nature) so that you beat LO variants 1v1. Maybe even bump that up to 240 Speed to outspeed Regular Heracross which has gained a fair amount of popularity recently, although I'm not sure if it runs Jolly its mega certaimly does so the speed enables you to outspeed and hit it pre-mega.
 
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Okay, I don't think a fully physically defensive spread is optimal anymore, Celebi usually wants a mixed defensive spread to handle threats from both side of the spectrum. I usually run 120 SpD with Bold in order to take Specs Icy Wind from Keldeo after SR, it still deals with most physical attackers Celebi wants to handle pretty well. You can also run up to 128 Calm for taking 2 Moonblasts from Rash Diancie after SR but I'm personally not a fan of this since you lose a ton of physical bulk in the process (for example, you can't emergency check Metagross anymore, Band Azumarill Knock Off OHKOs after SR, Kabutops 2HKOs, Swampert 2HKOs with Ice Punch, Excadrill 2HKOs after sand and rocks, just to name a few things you miss out on).
Outspeeding Diggersby is nice but it compromises your bulk so I don't think running this much speed is that great an option, Diggersby isn't common enough for it to be worth it imo, I would go back the the 36 Speed benchmark. If Defensive Celebi decides to run a large amount of speed 108 is the benchmark you should hit to outspeed Jolly Bisharp.

Also, I think Nasty Plot and Perish Song should be mentioned or even slashed on the first set. Both of these enable you to deal with CM sweepers such as Slowbro and Clefable and also lets you somewhat threaten CM Mega Sableye who otherwise uses you as setup fodder very easily. Nasty Plot has better synergy with Baton Pass for obvious reasons but Perish Song has a number of perks over it like phazing offensive sweepers as well, not requiring you to use up as many turns and getting past CM Unaware Clefable.

Finally, imo the LO set should at least run enough speed for Jolly Mamoswine (that's 196 with a Modest nature) so that you beat LO variants 1v1. Maybe even bump that up to 240 Speed to outspeed Regular Heracross which has gained a fair amount of popularity recently, although I'm not sure if it runs Jolly its mega certaimly does so the speed enables you to outspeed and hit it pre-mega.
Be careful with Perish Song + Baton Pass though, because you can Baton Pass Perish Song to a teammate by accident and wind up killing your teammate.
 

Jukain

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i talked to ender and we'd like to see the sets lined up as such:

set 1 np/sd pass
set 2 basic support, smth like recover | giga | bp / twave | sr / healing wish / perish
set 3 offensive

the defensive spread is difficult to standardize because it depends so much on the team. ender's mixed defensive spread is 252 HP / 160 Def / 80 SpD / 16 Spe calm which deals with lopunny, diancie, and thund in the same spread (specific benchmarks being avoiding the 2hko from lop return after rocks as well as the 2hko from both of diancie's stabs after rocks), which is p nice and i really wouldn't go any more specially defensive than that. a spread with def and bold is nice if you wanna tank some hits from cb azumarill; the spread for that is 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 Spe, 108 spe being optimal imo for the bp set because it means you always get the pass off against sharp, against which you can't really risk jolly. a slower, more physically defensive spread that takes thund after rocks is 252 HP / 144 Def / 96 SpD / 16 Spe bold. just throwing some ideas out there because to be completely honest i don't know what to make the main spread.
 

AM

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LCPL Champion
Ender's spread seems more specific and useful if we're talking about the defense set. That's a lot of relevant threats you're able to deal with that those other spreads seem to miss out on. I use 108 spe mostly but that's cause I want the luxury of getting out of Bisharp's range all the time but the lack of EVs can be noticeable at times you would really appreciate the defense on it. I feel like the second and third spreads are more team dependent while the first one encompasses a wider range of specific targets from a defensive benchmark, which is what the set I feel should be implying anyways.
 

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