Battle Spot - Simple Questions and Answers

[Age of Kings]

I've seen people using Crafty Shield (prevents Taunt and status), amongst other options. It's really one of those things that accomplish so much more than SCREENS THUNDER WAVE SWAGGER; although you are free to run it. Meowstic has Quick Guard and Fake Out but imo Klefki boasts better typing overall.

 

[Age of Kings]

Also double-posting: I will be away from Sept 14-Sept 21 with no internet access due to a planned camping trip. I will continue to maintain threads before and afterwards, but don't think I've abandoned anything. Afterwards, my schedule will free up (i.e. more time online) and I have an awesome project coming up for you all. :)

 

[viperGTS]

Still not showing up on the Global Link leaderboards.... highest ranking in the U.S. at the time of this post is 1699, I'm at 1702 yet I don't show up...

 

[Anjunadeep]

I'm seeing foul play all over the amoonguss movesets on the smogon website, but when I checked bulbapedia, there's no mention of amoonguss learning foul play anywhere... who's wrong, bulbapedia or smogon? And more importantly, if smogon's right, how the heck do I teach my amoonguss Foul play?

EDIT: >tfw no pokebank ;~;

 

[EnGarde]

I'm seeing foul play all over the amoonguss movesets on the smogon website, but when I checked bulbapedia, there's no mention of amoonguss learning foul play anywhere... who's wrong, bulbapedia or smogon? And more importantly, if smogon's right, how the heck do I teach my amoonguss Foul play?

Foul play is a transfer only move. You would need to breed/RNG an amoonguss on a gen 5 game, have the move tutor (only available on black 2 or white 2) teach it foul play there, and then transfer it up to gen 6.

 

[Lady Valkyrie]

Hi,

So first time poster here in Battle Spot though I'm not a total stranger to Online Battling. Just wondering, what are, if any, the biggest difference(s) between online battling and Battle Spot? Of course, no banlist, but anything else I should take into consideration?

 

[Hulavuta]

Hi Lady Valkyrie, Battle Spot is pretty much identical to the "Flat Battle" option on Wi-Fi battles. In Flat Battles, it's 3v3 for Singles, 4v4 for Doubles (and I believe Rotations) and 6v6 for Triples. Certain Pokemon like box legendaries and event legendaries are banned, and Pokemon are leveled down to 50 if they are above it. The time limit for matches is usually far less than the hour given for regular Wi-Fi battles.

 

[OrbitingDeath]

If you are just starting and have a lower rating, will you also encounter others with lower ratings, or do you immediatly face those with high ratings as well? Want to give this a shot once I've breed and trained some competitive options.

 

[Pyritie]

If you are just starting and have a lower rating, will you also encounter others with lower ratings, or do you immediatly face those with high ratings as well? Want to give this a shot once I've breed and trained some competitive options.

The main difference between battle spot and showdown is that showdown starts at 1000 and you can't go lower, whereas battle spot starts at 1500 and you can both go higher and lower. But otherwise yes, it will try to match you with players at a similar rating as yourself.

 

[Anivia]

I was giving Battle Spot Doubles a look, and I wanted to ask, what's the viability of Round? I played some matches yesterday and on my 3rd battle I encountered a team consisting of Mega Gardevoir and a bunch of faster teammates. My opponent lead with Gardevoir and Yanmega, and protected the first turn (predicting my Fake Out), and on the next turn used Round with Yanmega and Gardevoir.

It hits like a nuke is all I can say. I talked to EnGarde about this before, and believe me I trust her judgment, but I want some more opinions on this.

 

[EnGarde]

In order to help Mewdraco get an answer that is sufficiently different than mine, as well as help other, newer members, I'm copy pastaing my original answer here. :)

Round tends to work best in the triples format, where you can have 2 callers prior and boost it to truly nuclear levels, or to at least inject some unpredictability into who is going to call round. Plus, the boost to round only occurs within a single turn, which requires that both of your pokemon use round (predictably) every turn in order to get that boost.

Mega garde really wants hyper voice for doubles. If you can't use hyper voice (gen 6 gardevoir, for example), I'd recommend giving your mega slot to another pokemon and using a choiced gardevoir instead.

With choice scarf (one of my favorite sets), you can get the jump on and OHKO most dragons (not salamence, though--those tend to run choice scarf too). Problem is, scarfdevoir tends to hit most things with 2HKOs instead of OHKOs, so you have to plan accordingly.

Another great set is choice specs, which hits super hard. Specs garde really needs a lot of bulk in order to work, as it'll generally have to take a hit before OHKOing threats.

Also, psychic over psyshock, because most things you'll want to hit you'll hit harder with psychic. Usage stats: psychic #1 65.4%, psyshock #6 25.8%.

Also, focus blast is kind of a waste in doubles, as the thing you'll most want to hit--mega kanga--will destroy you with sucker punch. Shadow ball, which at least does SE against aegislash and other ghost types, not to mention mirror psychic types, is preferable (to compare, focus blast isn't even on the usage pie chart for garde, while shadow ball is #7, 25.5%).

Personal experience, my favorite KB gardevoir set is:

gardevoir @ choice scarf
Modest 84 HP / 196 Sp.Atk / 228 Spd (Eggy Emporium's "Dragon Slayer" Spread)
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Coverage (Psyshock / Focus Blast / Energy Ball / Tbolt)

Either way, gardevoir really likes having quick guard support, as it's biggest fear is sucker punch from mega kangaskhan and mega mawile. Meowstic-m is a good choice, though there are many others.

 

[Anjunadeep]

Is it possible to soft reset mystery gift pokemon?

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Save before you pick 'em up, yes.

Sejun's Scarf Dazzling Gleam Gardevoir was interesting to watch in Dooooobles.

 

[P3DS]

Sejun's Scarf Dazzling Gleam Gardevoir was interesting to watch in Dooooobles.

Honestly, dazzling gleam is pretty common on the scarf sets in VGC. Though swagger isn't 0.o

 

[EnGarde]

Is it possible to soft reset mystery gift pokemon?

To expand on MythTrainerInfinity, it is possible to SR all mystery gift pokemon that you get with a wonder card. The challenge is that all breedable pokemon (like mystery gift vivillons and torchics) only get random stats with no guarantees and random natures. Synchs and other abilities that influence what you receive DO NOT WORK. So, good luck getting a competitive pokeball pattern vivillon.

However, legendary pokemon and pokemon that cannot breed, like diancie, are guaranteed 3 randomly assigned perfect IVs, and thus are MUCH easier to SR. I've heard this is true of wild caught unbreedables (like riolu, azurill, and mime jr.) as well, but haven't personally tested to confirm.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

To expand on MythTrainerInfinity, it is possible to SR all mystery gift pokemon that you get with a wonder card. The challenge is that all breedable pokemon (like mystery gift vivillons and torchics) only get random stats with no guarantees and random natures. Synchs and other abilities that influence what you receive DO NOT WORK. So, good luck getting a competitive pokeball pattern vivillon.

However, legendary pokemon and pokemon that cannot breed, like diancie, are guaranteed 3 randomly assigned perfect IVs, and thus are MUCH easier to SR. I've heard this is true of wild caught unbreedables (like riolu, azurill, and mime jr.) as well, but haven't personally tested to confirm.

Anything in the no egg Egg Group gets 3 randomly assigned perfect IVs, except if caught in a Friend Safari.

I've also decided to pass on getting the free team members... I'm kinda not too fond of certain WiFi trading rules on here... Time to look for stuff on the GTS then...

 

[EnGarde]

Anything in the no egg Egg Group gets 3 randomly assigned perfect IVs, except if caught in a Friend Safari.

I've also decided to pass on getting the free team members... I'm kinda not too fond of certain WiFi trading rules on here... Time to look for stuff on the GTS then...

Hmm, does that mean you don't want a copy of the CCAT team? I can personally guarantee 3 members of the team (hitmontop and venusaur were personally bred by me; heatran was personally RNG'd by me), and I trust AoK's Suicune + Thundurus-I and Stellar's Landorus-T. We can chat further via PM if you have reservations if you'd prefer.

 

[a0161613]

So I'm a complete noob to online Pokemon battling. I've got a load of Gen VI bred stuff which should work but also have some RNG'd stuff on White & White 2.

What I guess I am after is a small idea of what Battle Spot is like before I try it? Am I likely to see a team full of hacked legendaries? Or is there some actual logic to the teams? I guess there will always be exceptions but I'm talking on a general basis.

 

[Hulavuta]

Hey a0161613, first I'd suggest checking out this thread: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/an-introduction-to-3v3-singles.

Based on your post, it seems you kind of have the stigma of in-game being casual, so I want to tell you first up that Battle Spot is quite different from passerby Wi-Fi battling. You will certainly not see a full team of hacked legendaries as hacks are banned and so are most of the box and event legendaries. Even though it's done on the 3DS over Wi-Fi, it is not a casual environment whatsoever, and it's best to get that paradigm out of the way as soon as possible.

As someone who used to play the Smogon metagames and still plays on showdown often, the quality of the average player on the Battle Spot ladder is miles ahead. You'll have an easy time for your first one to three games but once you start hitting Japanese players it's gonna get a bit tricky. The strategies are really wild and varied as well, you'll face pretty much every kind of strategy, so it's very hard to prepare for every threat.

That is for ranked at least, there is also a "free battle" mode which is more like casual Wi-Fi battling, but this forum focuses on the ranked and competitive formats so I'm not going to get into that much.

 

[a0161613]

Hey a0161613, first I'd suggest checking out this thread: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/an-introduction-to-3v3-singles.

Based on your post, it seems you kind of have the stigma of in-game being casual, so I want to tell you first up that Battle Spot is quite different from passerby Wi-Fi battling. You will certainly not see a full team of hacked legendaries as hacks are banned and so are most of the box and event legendaries. Even though it's done on the 3DS over Wi-Fi, it is not a casual environment whatsoever, and it's best to get that paradigm out of the way as soon as possible.

As someone who used to play the Smogon metagames and still plays on showdown often, the quality of the average player on the Battle Spot ladder is miles ahead. You'll have an easy time for your first one to three games but once you start hitting Japanese players it's gonna get a bit tricky. The strategies are really wild and varied as well, you'll face pretty much every kind of strategy, so it's very hard to prepare for every threat.

That is for ranked at least, there is also a "free battle" mode which is more like casual Wi-Fi battling, but this forum focuses on the ranked and competitive formats so I'm not going to get into that much.

That's exactly what I wanted to hear. I'll check out that thread and then start work on a team. I knew there was a depth to it and I'm glad it is as complex (and not casual) as I had hoped.

 

[EnGarde]

That's exactly what I wanted to hear. I'll check out that thread and then start work on a team. I knew there was a depth to it and I'm glad it is as complex (and not casual) as I had hoped.

Once you've got a team in mind, if you want further advice, there's a lot of us watching battle spot's RMT thread here. Feel free to post your team there, and we'll give you solid advice. :)

Lastly, it sounds like you've got your own collection of breedables ready on cart already, but if you need anything else to use competitively, give me a shout. My battle spot distribution (link in sig) aims to put competitive pokemon in the hands of battlers to lower the barrier of entry to any member that wants to try. Let me know if you need anything. :)

 

[Valzy]

What's the best EV spread for an Adamant Hitmontop in Battle Spot Doubles?

 

[EnGarde]

What's the best EV spread for an Adamant Hitmontop in Battle Spot Doubles?

I'm afraid I can only partially answer your question, as I haven't calc'd adamant hitmontop personally before. I believe adamant is necessary to guarantee the KO on 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan, but I don't know the specifics. I know Whiskey Tango was working with adamant 'top earlier, maybe he can help further?

Here is what I do know, though: we discussed hitmontop calcs at length in the triples CCAT thread, however we were focused primarily on defensive natures (careful vs. impish). Here is a quote of the relevant section:

Regarding Hitmontop nature; alright, so we're down to Careful vs Impish. Impish is technically optimal....under the assumption we will be using Wide Guard every turn (since the special spam is attributable to spread special moves having a wider distribution). We won't. Careful allows for longterm survival.

Benefits of Impish:
- Avoids Adamant Mega Kanga 2HKO: -1 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 69-82 (43.9 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
- Survives CB Talonflame: -1 252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 122-146 (77.7 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

That's the main stuff? Hitmontop doesn't give a single fuck about Landorus-T or Garchomp, everything else is special.

Benefits of Careful: (see proposed spread below for reasons I'm not running 252/252)
- 252+ SpA Heatran Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 180+ SpD Hitmontop in Sun: 72-85 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO
- 252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 180+ SpD Hitmontop: 60-72 (38.2 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
- 252+ SpA Mega Blastoise Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 180+ SpD Hitmontop in Rain: 115-136 (73.2 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO Remember that this calc is only for a Blastoise at full health.
- 252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 180+ SpD Hitmontop in Sun: 118-139 (75.1 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- We get OHKO'd by Specs Hyper Voice, but if we see Sylv on the field then it's safe to say SPAM WIDE GUARD. Moonblast fucks us.

With Careful, Hitmontop is able to survive some of the strongest attacks in the tier.

I'd like to propose the following spread:
Nature: Careful
252 HP / 180 SpD / 76 Speed

76 Speed is essential to outrun 4 Speed Blastoise and beat it to the Fake Out; we can also outrun neutral Heatran that run less than 20 Speed. We will also be avoiding speed creep bullshit from enemy Hitmontop and Politoed in the same speed tier (if they run more than us, they will be severely compromised as far as bulk goes).

Btw, I was considering 252 HP / 60 Def / 120 SpD / 76 Speed (a variation of the Smogon doubles analysis) but 73% of Triples Cress run Psychic and we need Lefties to avoid the 2HKO from Psyshock so it's pointless imo.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I'm afraid I can only partially answer your question, as I haven't calc'd adamant hitmontop personally before. I believe adamant is necessary to guarantee the KO on 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan, but I don't know the specifics. I know Whiskey Tango was working with adamant 'top earlier, maybe he can help further?

I went 252 HP/Attack. Don't do that; I've got some Kelpsy Berries coming its way.

244 Attack EVs with Adamant gets you the Close Combat OHKO on Mega Kang, and you absolutely want that because it can 2HKO with Return even after Intimidate. That, and the threat of being able to immediately take out things like that, Heatran, etc., is the primary reason to use Adamant 'Top in the first place. 244 Attack also gives it a 50% chance to OHKO bulky Modest Heatran, by the way, which does not improve as you go all the way up to 252.

Distribute the remaining eight between Defense and Special Defense evenly to optimize for level 50.

You could also elect to go for a more defensive Adamant build (252 HP / 136 Def will let you survive one Adamant Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird, for example), but at that point you're losing out on any useful OHKO potential and may as well just go with a defensive nature.

EDIT -- You could also take a cue from the post above and add the 76 Seed (taken out of HP) if you want to beat Blastoise, though it's an infrequent threat in doubles. Its next useful speed target is probably Adamant/Modest Tyranitar, for which it needs 188 Speed EVs. Personally, I think that's a little high and it can't do much to Hitmontop in return, so that one's up to you.

 

[Hclegend]

What would be the best set for a Mild non HP Ice Thundurus? Out of curiosity
Edit: it has Prankster, not Defiant
edit2: woo 888th post!