Hearthstone [IRC Channel #Skillstone]

[New World Order]

I've been having so much fun with Shaman. So much skill, versatility, positioning, planning, and so many different game mechanics involved. It also pretty much has everything: unconditional removal, board clear, silence, buffs, burst, efficient minions, free stuff. The Overload mechanic is really annoying at times (ie. can never safely coin Feral Spirit), but that just adds another dimension of skill to the class IMO. That being said, any suggestions on what I could do to improve this deck?:

2x Earth Shock
2x Lightning Bolt
2x Rockbiter Weapon
2x Haunted Creeper
1x Stormforged Axe (will eventually be a Doomhammer)
1x Loot Hoarder (will eventually be a Bloodmage Thalnos)
2x Flametongue Totem
1x Mana Tide Totem
2x Feral Spirit
2x Hex
2x Lightning Storm
2x Unbound Elemental
2x Defender of Argus
2x Azure Drake
1x Bloodlust
2x Earth Elemental
2x Fire Elemental
1x Alexstrasza (will eventually be an Al'Akir the Windlord)

 

[Matthew]

Don't run Earth Ele unless you're 100% revolving your deck around it, replace it for Harvest Golem

 

[UltiMario]

Probly wanna squeeze out the bloodlust and maybe 1 drake too for a loatheb and maybe a Belcher.

Combined with the above suggestion, you have a little more rounded options for reliable units (a 3 drop that doesn't require use of overload) and strong late game. Azure Drake really has lost its best 5 drop status, running only 1 in favor of Loatheb and Belcher is pretty standard. You don't really need Bloodlust to close games either when you have Alex in the deck, which will do the big damage you need for you. Running Gnomish Inventor > Loot Hoarder is probably better while you're waiting for Thalnos. Loot Hoarder doesn't really add to the deck, while the body for Gnomish tends to be worth the mana cost when Loot Hoarder doesn't give you much extra compared to using your Hero Power.

Aside from the cards you mentioned to be replaced, it looks solid.

 

[Matthew]

Shamans should generally avoid 4 drops as that's a common overload turn

 

[UltiMario]

Yes, that's exactly why defender of Argus is in like every Shaman deck.

Gnomish is just card draw that gives a more value body than Loot Hoarder. You're not running undertaker and half the time Hero Power is more useful than Loot Hoarder anyways. It's not Yeti, it's not something that you're running in your deck for the whole point of playing it on turn 4.

Lots of Shamans run Gnomish over Thalnos to begin with for card draw. This is to the point that the majority of midrange Shaman decks actually run Gnomish, even in addition to Thalnos. You can check yourself, most tourney decks don't even have Thalnos, and when they do, they ALSO additionally have Gnomish in the deck a lot of the time too.

A good body to go with your card draw is great in Shaman, and the results speak for themselves.

 

[Matthew]

Yes, that's exactly why defender of Argus is in like every Shaman deck.

Gnomish is just card draw that gives a more value body than Loot Hoarder. You're not running undertaker and half the time Hero Power is more useful than Loot Hoarder anyways. It's not Yeti, it's not something that you're running in your deck for the whole point of playing it on turn 4.

Lots of Shamans run Gnomish over Thalnos to begin with for card draw. This is to the point that the majority of midrange Shaman decks actually run Gnomish, even in addition to Thalnos. You can check yourself, most tourney decks don't even have Thalnos, and when they do, they ALSO additionally have Gnomish in the deck a lot of the time too.

A good body to go with your card draw is great in Shaman, and the results speak for themselves.

As someone who plays Shaman mainly (gold hero and everything) the deck he's crafting doesn't fit in to his curve. If you'd rather him run the Undertaker deck then you should probably link him. He's running a Bloodlust Shaman, and should probably fit Violet Teacher in over Defender. What you suggested is he run a completely different deck. That being said, a normal Bloodlust Shaman should run Violet Teacher instead of Hoarder and Alex.

EDIT:
along with the Earth Ele -> Golem change.

 

[Soul Fly]

I'd like to throw out there that while the ludicrously broken beasts hunter is going to be dead, decks like Face Hunter and Zoo Hunter are still tourney level decks.

The class isn't dead, it's just not the best class in the game anymore. Hunter will very much more be alive after this nerf than when UTH was nerfed for the first time. Webspinner, Mad Scientist, and Creeper still give him too much early game momentum to not be a good aggro deck.

(UTH is still very usable.)

OK Name just one consistent card draw engine the hunter can run not called shitty flare (lol)


The best of classes is dead without decent card draw.

 

[Mr.E]

Dunno why people get so caught up over card draw. Value is what's important, not "card draw," and you can gain value in many other ways than simply drawing cards. Shaman's never been big on card draw, and most people have never used two Mana Tides anyway which is the only class draw they have. Control Paladin might pack one Lay on Hands and most don't run Acolyte of Pain either.

That said, the oppressiveness of Huntard's combo is what makes them such a pain to deal with. Oh I can Nourish on Turn 5 while also putting down a 2/1, wiping half or more of your board and maybe even have some doges stick around too? WORKS FOR ME.

They're going to be pretty underrated when the nerf hits though. For one, they're going to be anti-meta as fuck because everyone is going to bust out Secret Mage and Handlock expecting them to disappear from the game. But they also still have extreme efficiency dealing with big, single threats and standalone UTH is still a decent board control tool combined with any sort of power boost (Timber Wolf, Dire Wolf, Leokk).

 

[UltiMario]

(UTH is still very usable.)

OK Name just one consistent card draw engine the hunter can run not called shitty flare (lol)


The best of classes is dead without decent card draw.

I've been turn 5-6 killed by hunter enough of times without them drawing a single card over what they normally would to realize it's not going to hurt them as badly as everyone thinks. Undertaker is a scary card still, and Hunter can make it work. Hunter still has ridiculous early game pressure, he just can't draw an extra 8 cards a game to keep the consistency up anymore. He'll become more like zoo, where you either win by turn 6-ish or lose vs some decks, rather than win by turn 6 or let buzzard/unleash carry you past that and get a free win anyways.

Tracking will probably fill the void where Buzzard is gone, and the aggro variants will work the same with that change. Only midrange will suffer where they need access to their whole deck rather than just the half the really matters.

 

[Swamp Link]

I also don't get why people are so convinced that the card draw is going to kill Hunter. Yes, it's a tempo deck, and so it needs to recharge, but that's okay. Shit, Hunter could run Coldlight Oracle, that's honestly a decent idea, especially with the synergy with cards like Mukla, which are good in Hunter. It can run more consistent cards than buzzard. It still has Tracking, Flare, Loot Hoarder, Mad Scientist, and Webspinner available to it to get cards. You take away a deck's draw engine and you leave a deck that has many good cards and gets them intermittently.

This comparison is poor because Paladin is usually control or has Divine Favor, but Paladin's only source of card draw that's not a cantrip is Lay on Hands. And Paladin doesn't have that many cantrips either. Hunter still has above average card draw. Buzzard Unleash wasn't even an integral part of Hunter play, it was just a tool that allowed them to swing back into the game against control decks if they ran out of gas. But now Hunter can have more consistency early.

 

[Matthew]

GUYS HUNTER IS NERFED TOMORROW (TODAY) AND I'M SO EXCITED

 

[UltiMario]

I'm excited about this patch. I've decided to work to legend this season, and I'm sitting at Rank 2. Handlock MIGHT become the best deck in the game, and I'd be glad to pilot Handlock all the way to legend after today. I've been going up the ladder between a bunch of decks (Control Warrior, Undertaker Priest, Naxx Token Druid, Secrets Mage, Midrange Hunter, Miracle Rogue, and of course, Handlock) and most of them have performed pretty well. Def looking forward to being able to be able to stick to Handlock again, though.

Gunna have to consider how to rebuild it though. I not only need to drop Leeroy, but I've been running Zombie Chow to make the match-up vs hunters better (especially when going second, when I can drop it on turn 1 and have enough momentum from it to turn 4 mountain giant vs hunter), which probably won't be as necessary anymore.

 

[Swamp Link]

Let's see how decks will be compared to pre-nerf:

Hunter: Obviously pre-nerf it was pretty much the strongest deck. Probably will still be viable, some people that actually really like Hunter will probably work with it a lot to make new decks, I expect Deathrattle Trap decks to be good. Maybe people will try control Hunter, that'll be fun. But it will definitely be one of the weaker decks overall, other than its niche in countering Handlock and stuff.

Rogue: Miracle was also one of the strongest decks pre-nerf. Also probably won't be that strong afterwards. Backspace Rogue might get play for doing well against Handlock, and Malygod decks or Forsen's Southsea Deckhand ones will be used by people that just like Miracle, and the matchups will basically be the same, but it won't be a super popular ladder deck since it'll also be weak to Handlock and stuff.

Warrior: It was good pre-nerf because it had a playable matchup against everything, and it still does, but before Hunter was the meta and Warrior was one of the best choices against it, whereas now decks like Shaman and Paladin will be much more popular, and those can be difficult for Warrior.

Priest: Was pretty good before because it could handle Hunter and Druid and Warrior well, but Priest has a tough time against Handlock because it's just not fast enough to beat it and can't handle of the threats (Twilight Drake ;_;). Also weak to Paladin, but it's really good against Shaman, so will be decent.

Druid: Was average before, and still is decent against most of the field. The obvious weakness is Handlock, and that'll be rough, but just bust out your double BGH decks and you'll be good to go. Druid's also nice for being able to burst Handlock from out of Molten Giant range, so it's definitely possible to win by just playing around them. I think there'll be an even mix of midrange, token, and ramp builds.

Shaman: This was basically dead pre-nerf. It is one of the best decks against Handlock since you always have Earth Shock in your opening hand for the Twilight Drakes and Hex and Flametongue for Giants. Also people will just be happy to play it with Hunter and Priest less prominent. Good anti-control deck.

Mage: Was hard to play with Hunter, although a lot of people did try stuff, and it could be good. The aggro build is pretty good against Handlock since it can reach through big taunts, and control decks could be really annoying. Giants Mage is scary, and the degenerate midrange secret builds will be hell to play against. Seriously, Counterspell is stupidly good against Paladin because the only throwaway spells it has, which really aren't throwaway spells, are Humility and Holy Light. And of course they can run secrets without the fear of constant Flare.

Paladin: Pre-nerf, and for a while, has basically been the least popular class or the second least popular ahead of Priest pre-Naxx. It did actually have a lot of good matchups and was popular in tournaments, but people just didn't play it. It was tough to play against Hunter, but that matchup was decent. Now, it's really good anti-control. This is my main class, so I'm excited. It's a good matchup against Priest, Handlock, and Warrior, and its weak matchups, like Miracle and Hunter, are out.

Warlock: The big one. Zoo is and always will be a strong deck and necessary for the metagame to make sure that decks don't become too greedy, and it doesn't really care what the meta is, so it'll be fine. Handlock was basically dead on ladder with Hunter (although I found that it wasn't a terrible matchup) until a few days ago. Then it got really popular, mostly because people were playing more anti-Hunter decks than Hunter decks, and Handlock beats all of those. This is the new Hunter, the deck that the meta revolves around and tries to beat. Should be fun.

Also, if you guys are looking to replace Leeroy, there are many good options. In Miracle, you can use Malygos or Southsea Deckhand, or you could be really pro and build Murlocle Rogue and Shadowstep Old Murk-Eye for the hilariously effective wins. In Handlock, you can run Malygos and use double Soufire for 18 damage and then cry as Soulfire discards the other one every time.

TL;DR Handlock is king, Shaman and Paladin are good for beating it, fuck Mage, Druid, Priest, and Warrior are alright, and Hunter and Rogue are weak

 

[Matthew]

patch just went through on my end. Let the hunt begin (sorry too soon?).

 

[New World Order]

Play Knife Juggler in Hunter right now. People just don't respect you one bit on turn 5 and Juggler+UTH absolutely rips apart non-Druid/Priest decks. It's funny since I'm actually having more success right now on ladder as Hunter than ever because players are no longer playing around UTH.

 

[Matthew]

the metagame is still very unstable. Hunter is not unplayable but it is easily the worst class now. Handlock will become king and with it the Druid will return to see vengeance with its double BGH and Savage combos. Hunter will be a counter pick in tournaments to battle Mage but that's it.

 

[Shinryu]

So, how good is malygos rogue supposed to be? I barely got to enjoy Leeroy any (a mere month and a half of fun) :(

I have some experience with spellcaster rogue since I run one as a fun deck, so I know it can put together some nasty direct damage with evis and SS. But I guess if it's really that bad ill de it while it's still 1.6k and figure something out I guess.

 

[Matthew]

I suggest if you want to run Malygod then you should run this version:

http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/44975-firebat-ataks-rogue-elegance

Though I replaced BGH for Alex.

 

[Lavos]

Been playing solely Handlock around rank 2 and I'm thinking of busting out the old Warrior again because EVERYONE is playing Shaman due to the Handlock resurgence (Shaman is 60/40 and thus one of the most favorable matchups). New Shaman looks like it straight up loses 70/30 or worse to Warrior, it can't bust through all the shit Warrior drops now before the big dudes come out.

Also, I died earlier today to an exact lethal combo of Soulfire + Soulfire + Doomguard from a Warlock with 5 cards in hand. C'mon...

 

[Trax]

So, been playing Warrior a little bit.. am I right to assume Grom is worth crafting?

 

[UltiMario]

Hunter is not unplayable but it is easily the worst class now.

Very little has changed about face Hunter fundementally, they're just on a clock now. It's probably still the best deck in the game on turns 1-4 (and it's not impossible for a game to be practically over by this point, either). You can't really call that the worst class in the game when Rogue has only has a few variations on "worse miracle rogue" left, of which are mediocre and lose to what is likely the best deck in the format now, Handlock. Hunter also still beats Handlock and Handlock's counters, while losing to the things Handlock beats. This this huge niche for Hunter right now, keeping him incredibly viable in the meta since he has a strong match-up for the most dominant decks in the format, and a bad match-up against decks that are completely oppressed by Handlock.

So, been playing Warrior a little bit.. am I right to assume Grom is worth crafting?

Yes, Grom is great.

 

[Acklow]

I'm away on vacation, but I have my iPad. Should I consider dusting VanCleef and Leeroy or just hold onto them for now?

 

[Shinryu]

Van Cleef is still usable, wouldn't bother dusting it until you have enough to make another legendary you need. Leeroy, I dusted it because it is giving back the full value due to the change, just haven't decided what I want to do yet.

 

[finally]

I'm away on vacation, but I have my iPad. Should I consider dusting VanCleef and Leeroy or just hold onto them for now?

as stated earlier, there is no reason not to dust leeroy. if you want leeroy back, you can just sit on your dust for a little while and recraft him later. if you don't like him, congrats you have 1600 dust for another legend!

 

[Soul Fly]

There's zero drawback in dusting leeroy if you wanna see how the meta pans out given they'll refund the entire 1600 dust cost, so you can really easily re-craft him.
Van Cleef really depends on if you play rogue, and how much you play rogue, because I find it to be a very above average class legendary, right behind Tirion, Grommash and Antoniadas.