Forme Freaks - Get Your Rotom On - UU and above open!

[TM RazorWind]

Regirock has a better stat spread than Regice is looking really neat. I'm personally looking forward to using Seeded as a bulky attacker, despite the Grass type. Assault Vest, as mentioned, would make it pretty damn tanky and it still has recovery thanks to its new Horn Leech (I assume it has wooden spines or something growing out of its head...?)

Registeel's stats are looking nice, and as the others said, it's similar enough to original Registeel that we can believe it. Steel/Electric is a pretty neat typing for Modern Age, especially with Fusion Bolt (good job fitting that in btw, I like the flavour text as a whole), and Dark Void is an interesting choice for Dark Age.

Regigigas finally has a way to get around Slow Start - sure, it's practically asking to be set up on or smashed in the face while Skill Swapping, but Regigigas-Synch still has that BST for once it gets going. And that Attack stat is scary for once it does get shot of Slow Start.


Also, let me just come clean and say I had no idea what I was doing with Regice half the time. XD I wanted it to sort of counterbalance Regirock flavour-wise, and figured that if Regirock changes physically, Regice should stay the same and change form due to some other stimulus. Hence, weather.

The Ice/Ground form is Sirocco, not Stucco. I was originally going to go with Sandstorm, but decided to change it since Sandstorm's already a thing in Pokemon - and one that favours Rock-types, no less. So I searched a couple of thesauruses and 'sirocco' jumped out at me. xD (Just be glad I didn't go with my original idea of an Ice/Flying Gale Forme...)

I'm not really sure where I was going with the Speed boost or Steam Eruption on Deluge forme either. Changing the stats to mirror the stats of Regirock's formes would be a good idea imo. As for Steam Eruption... I dunno, I wanted to give it a noteworthy change? A lot of Water moves seem common and I can't envision Regice using Surf. To be fair, though, it makes more sense than Steam Eruption, so I'm gonna go back and give it Surf unless anyone has better suggestions (Scald sort of has the same heat problem as Steam Eruption).

 

[warriorman222]

EDIT: Oh, and Warriorman, the thing about Risen that I'm getting at is that it's not really clear why Regigigas is now a Flying type. Did it just sprout wings? Has it ascended to become a superior being who can float because Reasons? It's a very ambiguous name where I have no clue what Regigigas-Risen is supposed to be like.

Like Mantodea said, risen is agony, then redemption. So pretty much.

Also, make Agony Dark type and give it i dunno, Payback? Payback as in revenge for the pain it went through.

Mold-> Something that can go along with the suffering-> freedom/repdemtion idea.

Synch-> Psycho.

So anyways, can i request anem changes for the formes? As in the above?

 

[EV]

I tweaked the Regis and put them in the spreadsheet. On to the next four!

• Chatot by Mczatar
• Zangoose by Tanner3393
• Seviper by Emerald Master
• MOAR ROTOMS by The Eevee General

**IF THERE ARE ANY MISTAKES WITH MATH/MOVES, I WILL FIX THEM NOW. AND THERE ARE A LOT OF MATH PROBLEMS**

Chatot

Chatot - Normal/Flying (Keen Eye/Tangled Feet/Big Pecks) ~ 76/65/45/92/42/91 : 411 total

• Chatot-RocknRoll - Normal/Fire (Big Pecks) ~ 76/60/60/122/62/111 : 491 total, +Overheat
• Chatot-Techno - Normal/Steel (Big Pecks) ~ 76/60/60/122/62/111 : 491 total, +Flash Cannon
  
• Chatot-Acid - Normal/Poison (Big Pecks) ~ 76/60/60/122/62/111 : 491 total, +Sludge Wave
  
• Chatot-Electronic - Normal/Electric (Big Pecks) ~ 76/60/60/122/62/111 : 491 total, +Thunderbolt
  
• Chatot-Reggae - Normal/Psychic (Big Pecks) ~ 76/60/60/122/62/111 : 491 total, +Psychic

Original post

Zangoose

Zangoose - Normal (Immunity/Toxic Boost) ~ 73/115/60/60/60/90 : 458 total

• Zangoose-Aero - Normal/Flying (Toxic Boost) ~ 73/145/75/55/75/115 : 538 total, +Brave Bird
• Zangoose-Aqua - Normal/Water (Toxic Boost) ~ 73/145/75/55/75/115 : 538 total, +Waterfall
  
• Zangoose-Specter - Normal/Ghost (Toxic Boost) ~ 73/145/75/55/75/115 : 538 total, +Shadow Sneak
  
• Zangoose-Strike - Normal/Electric (Toxic Boost) ~ 73/145/75/55/75/115 : 538 total, +Volt Tackle
  
• Zangoose-Sage - Normal/Psychic (Toxic Boost) ~ 73/145/75/55/75/115 : 538 total, +Psycho Cut

Original post

Seviper

Seviper - Poison (Shed Skin/Infiltrator) ~ 73/100/60/100/60/65 : 458 total

• Seviper-Sneaky - Poison/Ghost (Shed Skin) ~ 73/125/80/95/60/105 : 538 total, +Shadow Sneak
• Seviper-Pond - Poison/Water (Shed Skin) ~ 73/125/80/95/60/105 : 538 total, +Waterfall
  
• Seviper-Desert - Poison/Ground (Shed Skin) ~ 73/125/80/95/60/105 : 538 total, +Sand Tomb
  
• Seviper-Jungle - Poison/Grass (Shed Skin) ~ 73/125/80/95/60/105 : 538 total, +Leech Seed
  
• Seviper-Mountain - Poison/Rock (Shed Skin) ~ 73/125/80/95/60/105 : 538 total, +Stone Edge

Original post

MOAR ROTOMS

Rotom - Electric/Ghost (Levitate) ~ 50 / 50 / 77 / 95 / 77 / 91 : 440 total

• Rotom-Suck - Electric/Ground (Levitate) ~ 50 / 65 / 107 / 105 / 107 / 86 : 520 total, +Spikes
• Rotom-Shave - Electric/Steel (Levitate) ~ 50 / 65 / 107 / 105 / 107 / 86 : 520 total, +Mirror Shot
• Rotom-Sew - Electric/Fairy (Levitate) ~ 50 / 65 / 107 / 105 / 107 / 86 : 520 total, +Dazzling Gleam
• Rotom-Zap - Electric/Bug (Levitate) ~ 50 / 65 / 107 / 105 / 107 / 86 : 520 total, +Bug Buzz
• Rotom-Grind - Electric/Poison (Levitate) ~ 50 / 65 / 107 / 105 / 107 / 86 : 520 total, +Sludge Wave

Original post

Possible discussion points:

• Is the flavor of each forme expressed well? Is there a theme for all 5 formes? Is it unique, intriguing, fun, boring?
• How do the formes stack up competitively? Is one really good? Is one really bad? What niches might they fill in the standard metagame?
• Have roles changed for the Pokemon? Is a former wall now a sweeper? Is a former attacker now better at support?
• What's your favorite forme for each Pokemon and why?
• For the creators, what was your inspiration? What were you trying to achieve?
• Lastly, can you see something working better than what the creator submitted? Did they miss an opportunity to really advance the Pokemon somehow?
• **This is NOT the place to recommend name changes!! Posts made solely to suggest a "better" name for any forme will be deleted.**

Have fun and don't be rude. You can be critical, but explain why you feel the way you do. Don't just say, "Oh god that was a stupid choice." After a few days, we'll make any necessary changes and then add them to the spreadsheet.

 

[Ghoul King]

Chatot: Goes from being a crappy, not quite fast enough Special sweeper, to a solidly fast, slightly less fragile and fairly hard hitting Special sweeper. Works for me.

The musical theme doesn't really mean anything to me, but actually fits to, you know, a parrot whose head is a musical note. Fair enough. It'd be nice to have a clear line of reasoning for what each Forme is like and how this leads to their added moves/typing. Rocknroll=Fire/Overheat and Reggae=Psychic/Psychic in particular is sort of weird to me.

Techno is probably the least good competitively, having a double weakness to Fighting and only marginal synergy with Boomburst, though it's harder to say which one is probably best competitively. Acid and Reggae both have defensive synergy but struggle against Steel types (Except, wait, Chatot gets Heat Wave anyway), Rocknroll has the single hardest hitting added move of the bunch and gets STAB on Heat Wave but there's no defensive synergy and it will usually make more sense to Boomburst than to use Overheat (I kinda wish it had been given Fiery Dance instead, particularly since it would be more in line with the moves added to the other Formes), while Electronic probably has the best offensive presence overall.

Overall I'm fairly happy with Chatot, because it identifies the niche Chatot is trying (and failing) to fill in normal play and gives it the stats it needs to have a chance and some more coverage. It's a happy coincidence that Chatot doesn't really need STAB on Chatter anyway, given that the rules of this project forbid using the secondary type as the retained type.

Zangoose: Quite fast and really hard hitting. Nice. In conjunction with Toxic Boost, it might have a chance at last.

The main comments I have to make on the specific Formes are A: it seems an odd choice to give two of its Formes recoil moves when it's already laboring under the pressure of presumably using a Toxic Orb to bolster its offense and B: Brave Bird is odd to give a Pokemon that isn't some kind of bird. I kind of want to ask "Why not Acrobatics", but then I remember it's probably going to be holding a Toxic Orb, so yeah. It's somewhat unfortunate how physical Flying moves are heavily weighted toward "Hi I'm a bird".

I do kind of wonder what the flavor logic is supposed to be. Is Zangoose tapping into some inner potential, or evolving to fit harsh circumstances, or what?

Seviper: Seems odd to give it a statline weighted toward hitting hard and fast and then electing to to give it Shed Skin over Infiltrator, particularly since only two Forme's provide more wall-y moves. (Jungle with Leech Seed and Desert with Sand Tomb) I'm also disappointed at the lack of a Dark Forme to take advantage of its innate access to Crunch and particularly Sucker Punch, particularly since the Ghost Forme is clearly stretching for relevance because physical Ghost moves are things Seviper's body cannot support, like Shadow Claw and Shadow Punch. Sneaky is also more of a Dark type concept than a Ghost type concept -Ghosts get associated more with trickery and suchlike. Why not make the Sneaky Forme Dark and have Foul Play, or maybe Parting Shot? Or heck, Beat Up.

I'd rather have seen Jungle given Leaf Blade, given the offensive statline and Seviper's blade tail, and in particular this would help distinguish it from all the existing Grass/Poison types, most of whom are in a better position to use Leech Seed anyway.

The Mountain Forme is painful. Rock/Poison is not a good combination defensively (Double weakness to Ground, overall worse than Poison/Ground), it isn't a good combination offensively (Walled by Ground and Steel alike), and I'm not convinced Stone Edge is flavor-appropriate to Seviper, blade tail or no. How is it stabbing from below? I could see an Ice-typed Mountain Forme instead, with Ice Fang.

The Desert Forme works fairly well. The move choice is bizarre, except Seviper already gets Earthquake naturally, and there's not really many physical Ground moves worth bothering with if you've got Earthquake, and there's only a tiny number of Status moves. That's part of why I put Spikes on the Ground Forme of Regirock myself. I'd rather have a different move, but Spikes is about it for worthwhile in a Singles context. (Land's Wrath has advantages in Doubles and Triples)

The only objection I have to Pond is it really ought to be River or Ocean, if we're talking "environments snakes live in and stuff". Even if I felt Aqua Tail would make more sense than Waterfall (I don't), Seviper can learn that as-is.

I like it overall, but I think several things could be better/more sensical.

Rotom-More: Sew getting Dazzling Gleam is just puzzling. Do people polish sewing machines 'til they shine? Every sewing machine I've seen has been old and beat-up.

Zap being a bugzapper, I'd sooner expect Signal Beam than Bug Buzz. Or a non-Bug move and typing. Really, I'd sooner expect it to be a Fire-type, which is already taken.

Shave doesn't make a lot of sense. Razors don't normally have built-in mirrors, and even if they did, both Mirror Shot and Flash Cannon are literally "I reflect light off my metal surface and that hurts things", so why not just give it Flash Cannon? It's also sort of weird that an electric razor is the Steel-typed Rotom, of all things. Everything Rotom possesses is a machine, generally metallic, so what makes an electric razor more metal than the other stuff?

Suck is sort of baffling. Why is a vacuum cleaner Ground-typed? I can sort of follow the line of reasoning of vacuum cleaner=flinging Spikes out, only not really because it calls to mind a really defective vacuum cleaner, or a vacuum cleaner that isn't a vacuum cleaner at all. Real vacuum cleaners stop working when they suck up caltrops, or keep working but tear apart their insides. Really, I'd sooner expect a vacuum cleaner to be Normal typed and get Boomburst for the noise factor, or something.

Grind I can follow the line of reasoning, and I'm amused at such an odd thing being possessed by Rotom. Though, Sludge Wave is still sort of puzzling. I could sort of justify Sludge Bomb to myself by imagining that it turns itself upside-down to empty out the gunk inside of it onto its enemy, but Sludge Wave is spraying every which way. How is it doing that?

Mostly I don't really see much point to adding yet more Rotom Formes, particularly since it's actually kind of contrary to the mandate that each Pokemon gets only five such Formes.

 

[warriorman222]

Meloetta is one of the few Pokemon we're doing which is not that bad, being S-tier RU and *this* close to being UU.

Here we go:

Chatot:
I see chatot and realize i may have to change my Meloetta. crap.

Stat distribution is fine.

too bad Chatot has 3 useless abilities. It should have gotten keen eye, but what exactly lowers accuracy. and outside of Crunch, what for Defense? Poor Chatot.

RockNRoll has Rock in it. so it should be Rock. Anyways, in it's states i se flashbacks of when i thought Pyroar could be good. now it is. Except it isn't Pyror. It's ROCKNROAR!

Techno and Acid are fine, but Acid is a song type? if it is, i feel stupid. Also Techno but rekt by Fighting type coverage or STAB.

I get the way the moves work, but why not flamethrower for RockNRoll in that case?

What is Reggae.

Electronic? Ok . Thank you for not putting Electro. Then i would scream.

Overall, good stat distribution, pretty good moves, but what is Reggae and why is Acid there? 9/10

Zangoose:

First of all, what is happening to Zangoose? Is it adaptation? Secret power activarted by something? What???

Stat boost is average, especially since Zangoose is kinda shit. Maybe more concetrated into Attack. A more miny-maxy spread is fine for terrible Pokemon. OR in other words, almost every one we're doing.

So Aero is a Cat-Ferret-Bird. ok. Acrobatics maybe? nvm Toxic Orb...

Specter suggest less of adaptation and more of unleashed power. Shadow Snea on the other hand, fits worse than Shadow Claw, and is not needed for something that breaks the 100 speed tier by over 10.

Strike->Storm. Same flavor, more understandable name. Volt Tackle Seems fitting, but are we allowed to take exclusive moves? It not, you have to settle for*ugh* Wild Charge.

Overall, confusing concept, stat distribution could be better, but moves are fine enough. 7/10, which is like a 2 for most people, but a 3 for me. Good, but could be better.

Seviper:
Why Shed Skin, when you can look at this thing in the wrong right way and OHKO it? Infiltrator is better to make it a fast, frail, Stallbreaker. 105 speed if fine, considering 65 before, but take that 20 out of Defense and Put it in Speed. Or at least 10 of it.

Sneaky: Same as Specter, but what really can replace Shadow Sneak. Although it's fine since it lets it outspeed a fellow Specter Zangoose.

Slight Perversion aside, Pond-> Ocean. It gets Aqua Tail so Waterfall is good.

Desert->Wanderer, Sand Tomb->Land's Wrath or Earthquake(jabs it's tail in the ground and yeah.)

Jungle shouldn't have Leech Seed. Even with your current spread, it's bad defenses will kill it before Leech Seed can do much. Vines are everywhere in the Jungle, Power whip should teach Aqua Zangoose a hard lesson.

Mountain: make it Ice Type, and give it Ice Fang.

Overall, great ideas, great concept of attemptingto counter the Zangooses. Just better moves and stats. 8/10.

Why MOAR ROTOMS? Cause.:
EDIT: I forgot Rotom gets levitate.

Yeah, whether or not we need more Rotoms, we have them now.
No tweaking stats or abilities for obvious reasons. If only we could have taken out on Attack rather than Speed...

Suck Sucks. Ok serious Spikes seems great, but that's it. Remember Stunfisk? this thing is pretty much a better, more apealing Stunfisk. Better, but not neccesarily good, being weak to it's own STAB.

Does Rotom have Magnet Rise? If not, you get to waste an itemslot with Ait balloon, just for survival. Mirror Shot is Flavorful, but Flash Cannon is stronger, more accurate... yeah. Which one you pick depends on your bigger concern: Flavor or Competetiveness.

Sew: Again, the above. Moonblast or Dazzling Gleam? anyways, Sewtom is the ew Dedenne. Unless Lilac Dedenne is...

Zap the Bug Zapper. Bug buzz is so fitting, so good as STAB, that i consider giving the whole thign 10/10 just for this.

Grind? What? Garborator? Ok. Sludge wave? What? Compost? Ok. Grind is fone. But what will it look like? A sink showing it's openings? Ok. so i just answered all my questions. Ok.

Flavor: Check: Competetiveness: ehhh.. Check. Good Typing: Levitate saves half of them from obscurity. Check. 9.999999999999999/10. Because nothing is perfect. Except this. 10/10.

That's it.

 

[warriorman222]

Okay, i forget what types of moves Seviper already got, since i haven't ever fought or went near it. It gets Earthquake. So never mind, keep Sand Tomb.

For a final Clarification, here is the Flavor of Regigigas:

While it went asleep, it developped mold and stuff. It also endured some sort of mental and kinetic re-calibration. If it goes to sleep somewhere certain for extended times, it completely changes:

Psycho: The result of Sleeping in a Chamber of Emptiness drives it insane with isolation.. It realized it coild hand over it's weakness to it's opponent with pure mental power, and immediately transform into and unstoppable beast. It will cripple allies to gain their power, and regain it's statistical supermacy over all but two beings. Broken and cunning, this Regigigas will use youun you're drained, and end your suffering right then and there.

Mold. sleeping in a forestcauses the Mold to Hunger, feed off, and grow on Regigigas. This renders it weak and dependent on the Mold covering the white. Through Strenuous physical pressur however, Regigigas manages to conquer the mold, and starve it to the point where it could only feed on Regigigas' enemies, healing both of them. Parasitism->Mututalism at it's finest. A silent warrior, leeching off you before you realize you're dead. Using your Power to forge it's own. Will betray at any time if it has to feed.

Inferno is sleeping near the Volcano, Painfully melting off the Ash, turning his marks and Skin Red, and banding his hands and fet with coal. Now trapped, Regigigas must set himself on fire to break through the bonds, and regain his true power. Enraged at everything that exists including allies, it will not hesitate to charge it's enemies, fire blazing, even if he goes down before turning his bonds of coal into flowing, free lava.


Agony:If it Sleeps somewhere dark, it goes through Agonizing nightmares, and wakes as a horror you would never want to see: Agony itslef. It is vengeful, depressed, but on the inside, out of all the Regis, the only one with still a heart. The scariest one is the most caring one. The one that wants Payback is the one that wants redemption the most. It is the only one that never will, or can get redemption. all it can do is avenge itself. And still with a heart, the agony, the mental pain is unending. Poor Agony. Poor Regigigas-A. This is the only one you could forge an alliance with and not end up cripppled, a pile os ash, betrayed, or abandoned. He has a heart. He is not a monster, even if he looks like one.

Risen:Sleeping somewhere high up, somewhere peaceful will cause regigas to acsebd into a higher being. Something that doesn't care about the lower, is self centered, and will only lower it's wings to heal itself. Unwilling to help, this Regigigas is kind of Snobby, always high up, and will abandon in any bad situation. Sounds like the higher being is kinda a dick... Just because Regigigas-R has two Rs doesn't mean it can be a big snob! Fuck you Regi-Risen.

lol at Risen.

 

[En Passant]

Hey, remember that time before Platinum came out when there was a rumor going around about a Regigigas-Sky? That's probably where Risengigas comes from.

However, Zangoose lacks such an excuse. If I were to replace them, I'm probably base the formes off of different weapons or letters or something unique like that. Maybe a Zergoose form as well as a nice reference.

I'm also kind of in agreement on Ground-type Rotom-Suck. Electric/Fighting Rotom-Robot Toy when?

 

[warriorman222]

Hey, remember that time before Platinum came out when there was a rumor going around about a Regigigas-Sky? That's probably where Risengigas comes from.

There was a rumor about that? Well, I was inspired by remembering something my old friends said. I was just thinking of him, and the idea of Regigigas with wings popped into my head like that.

However, Zangoose lacks such an excuse. If I were to replace them, I'm probably base the formes off of different weapons or letters or something unique like that. Maybe a Zergoose form as well as a nice reference.

Gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8/8 idea dude.

I'm also kind of in agreement on Ground-type Rotom-Suck. Electric/Fighting Rotom-Robot Toy when?

More like electronic Action Figure. Rotom-Action go! Use Focus Miss/ Aura Hit!

 

[EV]

The Rotom formes were concocted on Showdown during an intense business groupthink strategy session involving some of the forums top OM scientists. They aren't going to change.

 

[warriorman222]

I'm also kind of in agreement on Ground-type Rotom-Suck. Electric/Fighting Rotom-Robot Toy when?

The Rotom formes were concocted on Showdown during an intense business groupthink strategy session involving some of the forums top OM scientists. They aren't going to change.

lol
Not like i expected them to. Now you make something serious look like a joke, no offense.

Maybe Suck is good, i usually undermine support mons. Except the really popular ones ike Evio-chansey and Klefki, and the offensive support mons like Spikes Greninja.

 

[warriorman222]

So how long is it supposed to be between each batch of Pokemon?

sorry for double post

 

[EV]

So how long is it supposed to be between each batch of Pokemon?

sorry for double post

Um, soon. Sorry this last batch is taking longer. Been busier irl. I'll try to get to it tomorrow, but it might have to wait until the weekend.

 

[warriorman222]

Um, soon. Sorry this last batch is taking longer. Been busier irl. I'll try to get to it tomorrow, but it might have to wait until the weekend.

Fuck, i'm forced to go camping on the weekends.

Ok, lemme help with that.

 

[warriorman222]

This is the next batch in order from the OP:

• Luvdisc by The Eevee General
• Lapras by The Eevee General
• Lunatone by The Reptile
• Solrock by Kit Kasai

Luvdisc

Luvdisc - Water (Swift Swim/Hydration) ~ 43 / 30 / 55 / 40 / 65 / 97 : 330 total

• Luvdisc-Broken Heart - Water/Dark (Swift Swim) ~ 43 / 25 / 65 / 95 / 75 / 107 : 410 total, +Dark Pulse
• Luvdisc-Happy Heart - Water/Fairy (Swift Swim) ~ 43 / 25 / 65 / 95 / 75 / 107 : 410 total, +Moonblast
• Luvdisc-Heavy Heart - Water/Psychic (Swift Swim) ~ 43 / 25 / 65 / 95 / 75 / 107 : 410 total, +Psychic
• Luvdisc-Jittery Heart - Water/Bug (Swift Swim) ~ 43 / 25 / 65 / 95 / 75 / 107 : 410 total, +Bug Buzz
• Luvdisc-Cold Heart - Water/Ice (Swift Swim) ~ 43 / 25 / 65 / 95 / 75 / 107 : 410 total, +Freeze Dry

Lapras

Lapras - Water/Ice (Water Absorb/Shell Armor/Hydration) ~ 130 / 85 / 80 / 85 / 95 / 60 : 535 total

• Lapras-Loch Lomond - Water/Dragon (Water Absorb) ~ 130 / 100 / 100 / 120 / 110 / 55 : 615 total, +Draco Meteor
• Lapras-Loch Morar - Water/Fire (Water Absorb) ~ 130 / 100 / 100 / 120 / 110 / 55 : 615 total, +Fire Blast
• Lapras-Loch Tay - Water/Fairy (Water Absorb) ~ 130 / 100 / 100 / 120 / 110 / 55 : 615 total, +Moonblast
• Lapras-Loch Maree - Water/Ground (Water Absorb) ~ 130 / 100 / 100 / 120 / 110 / 55 : 615 total, +Earth Power
• Lapras-Loch Rannoch - Water/Grass (Water Absorb) ~ 130 / 100 / 100 / 120 / 110 / 55 : 615 total, +Grass Knot

Original post

Lunatone

Lunatone - Rock/Psychic (Levitate) ~ 70/55/65/95/85/70 : 440 total

• Lunatone-New - Rock/Dark (Levitate) ~ 70/50/100/105/120/75 : 520 total, +Night Daze
• Lunatone-Crescent - Rock/Ghost (Levitate) ~ 70/50/100/105/120/75 : 520 total, +Night Shade
  
• Lunatone-Quarter - Rock/Ice (Levitate) ~ 70/50/100/105/120/75 : 520 total, +Freeze Dry
  
• Lunatone-Gibbous - Rock/Water (Levitate) ~ 70/50/100/105/120/75 : 520 total, +Muddy Water
  
• Lunatone-Full - Rock/Fairy (Levitate) ~ 70/50/100/105/120/75 : 520 total, +Moonlight

Original post

Solrock

Solrock - Psychic/Rock (Levitate) ~ 70/95/85/55/65/70 : 440 total

• Solrock-Flare - Rock/Fire (Levitate) ~ 70/100/130/50/90/80 : 520 total, +Sacred Fire
• Solrock-Eclipse - Rock/Dark (Levitate) ~ 70/100/130/50/90/80 : 520 total, +Dark Void
• Solrock-Fusion - Rock/Electric (Levitate) ~ 70/100/130/50/90/80 : 520 total, +Fusion Bolt
• Solrock-Nova - Rock/Dragon (Levitate) ~ 70/100/130/50/90/80 : 520 total, +Outrage
• Solrock-Gravity - Rock/Ghost (Levitate) ~ 70/100/130/50/90/80 : 520 total, +Night Shade

Original post

Possible discussion points:

• Is the flavor of each forme expressed well? Is there a theme for all 5 formes? Is it unique, intriguing, fun, boring?
• How do the formes stack up competitively? Is one really good? Is one really bad? What niches might they fill in the standard metagame?
• Have roles changed for the Pokemon? Is a former wall now a sweeper? Is a former attacker now better at support?
• What's your favorite forme for each Pokemon and why?
• For the creators, what was your inspiration? What were you trying to achieve?
• Lastly, can you see something working better than what the creator submitted? Did they miss an opportunity to really advance the Pokemon somehow?
• **This is NOT the place to recommend name changes!! Posts made solely to suggest a "better" name for any forme will be deleted.**

Have fun and don't be rude. You can be critical, but explain why you feel the way you do. Don't just say, "Oh god that was a stupid choice." After a few days, we'll make any necessary changes and then add them to the spreadsheet.

 

[EV]

Thanks warriorman222 . I'm going to format it, but otherwise we can use your post for the next batch.

 

[Ghoul King]

Luvdisc: Doomed to suck

The only things that particularly stand out to me is that "Broken Heart" seems an odd thing to be Dark, and Jittery Heart makes makes me think of what precedes a heart attack, not a Bug typing.

Oddly enough, I think Cold Heart might have the most competitive viability, being a fantastic troubleshooter for rain teams -hi Gyarados. Bye Gyarados. Hi Ludicolo. Bye Ludicolo. Swift Swim Ludicolo in particular can inflict devastating damage on most rain team, and no existing Freeze Dry user fits particularly well to a rain team. Lapras is closest, with Water Absorb, and is too slow to really act as a troubleshooter. Speaking of...

Lapras: Lapras doesn't care about the missing Speed, so that's cool. Kind of interesting that it's shifted to a more offensive spread, rather than emphasizing its tanking ability, which is one of the things Lapras often brings to the table in metas where it's relevant.

Loch Lomond is doubly resistant to Water and gets Water Absorb. Unfortunate for it. Draco Meteor is of course a fantastic nuke, though ultimately this invites unfavorable comparisons to the faster, Focus Energy-capable Kingdra. To be fair, Rotom-ed Lapras is tougher and harder hitting.

Morar is quite nice. Paired with a type vulnerable to Water, its Water Absorb is putting in some real work, Fire/Water is actually a decent defensive pairing, and it has fantastic offensive synergy, with only two things really walling the two types together -Water and Dragon, both of which are vulnerable to Freeze Dry, which Lapras gets. Morar will probably pretty much always run Freeze Dry.

Tay doesn't have much to be said about it. It's Special Azumarill, basically, only minus all the powerful tricks up Azumarill's sleeve. It's not even all that much tougher than Azumarill.

Maree is another typing getting good use out of its Water Absorb, though it's unfortunate that it can be compared to the existing Quagsire. It's a much better Special wall than Quagsire, though, barring Unaware.

Rannoch makes me sad. Another typing where Water Absorb is really redundant, and Grass Knot is a bad move with very situational strength, and Water and Grass are strongly overlapping in offense, with the one thing Grass has over Water being its effectiveness against Water itself -and Lapras has that covered much more reliably with Freeze Dry. Other than the stat boost, Rannoch is arguably a downgrade over regular Lapras, and in fact considering the loss of Speed would lose in a straight fight with regular Lapras.

252+ SpA Lapras Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Lapras: 332-392 (82.5 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (With STAB and appropriate Special Attack)
252+ SpA Lapras Freeze Dry vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Lapras: 280-336 (69.6 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Target is Water/Grass and has the correct Special Defense)

Lunatone: MAXIMUM TANK! Minor flavor nitpick: what would be the difference between either Crescent or Quarter (Depending on your interpretation of Lunatone's design) and regular?

New being Rock/Dark kind of hurts the tanking stat spread, but sure. Night Daze might finally justify using the stupid move on Zoroark, since what appears to be New Moon Forme Lunatone throwing out Night Daze could be either one. On the other hand, the move is only a tiny improvement in hitting strength over Dark Pulse, has a miss chance, and replacing a 30% Flinch chance with a 40% chance of the enemy having a 33% chance of missing, assuming they don't just switch, use an always hits move, etc... to be fair, Lunatone's Speed is a bit low to be abusing flinch and a bit high to be abusing flinch in Trick Room, so the only real loss is the accuracy. I like it overall, anyway.

Crescent getting Night Shade is sort of nifty, and potentially in line with Lunatone committing fully to a defensive spread in the same way that Eviolite Chansey prefers Seismic Toss to a real attacking move. Rock/Ghost doesn't currently exist and is a nifty typing too.

Not sure why Quarter=Ice, but OK whatever. Also, hello One Of The Worst Type Combinations Ever. I'm... not... sure why it cares about Freeze Dry. Yeah, it's a unique, useful move, but it's not like Water resists Rock or Psychic for synergistic coverage. To be fair, Lunatone gets Ice Beam naturally, but a rare special Special Ice move that Lunatone would really care for would be Frost Breath (Break enemy walls) or Glaciate. (Super Icy Wind) Eeeh.

Gibbous is. Um. Not great? Why not Scald, favorite of walling Pokemon everywhere? Or I dunno Aqua Ring maybe, though any random Grass attack is going to instagib it regardless...

Full finally gives Lunatone a healing move! And STAB on Moon Blast! Hurrah! It's unfortunate that Rock/Fairy is doubly weak to Steel, but it could be worse, and honestly compared to the other Lunatone variants this one is the most in line with what the set's statline seems to be trying to do.

Solrock: Fast enough to potentially Scarf past a lot of things, or be Baton Passed some Speed and make do. Nice. I like the flavor approach, overall, even if I have to wonder how the "rock in the shape of a sun" would pull off... any of them.

I'd cheer Flare giving Solrock STAB on its existing Fire moves and complain that Sacred Fire is overkill, except Solrock doesn't get Physical Fire moves and every other Physical Fire move is sucky and/or out of line with Solrock's design. (How the heck would it Fire Punch??) Plus a 50% chance to burn is great for a wallin' thing. It's too bad Rock/Fire is such a vulnerable type, though at least unlike Magcargo Flare Solrock has enough Speed to not be outrun by everything and it has Levitate, removing one of the double weaknesses. Pretty clear replacement to Magcargo anyway.

Eclipse gives us another double weakness type, and provides the obnoxious Dark Void. I will note that in Smogon Doubles the move Dark Void is straight-up banned, so Eclipse would be handicapped in the Doubles format it would theoretically shine in. Shame. It's not like there's a shortage of physical Dark moves to choose from, either. Foul Play, anyone?

Fusion is terrific, with Levitate covering the resulting double weakness and the Electric typing covering up the Steel weakness, leaving it only the Grass, Fighting, and Water weaknesses. Fusion Bolt might actually be a bit much in that context.

Nova grants everything Draco Meteor automatically. On the other hand, what the heck are any of the Formes going to do with Draco Meteor? Honestly, Nova is probably a bad Tyrantrum, and Tyrantrum isn't that good.

Gravity is Lunatone's Crescent, but with a physical statline. Uuuuuh. Do we really want both of them so similar?

 

[EV]

Like Regirock/Regice, I'd like Solrock and Lunatone to mirror each other. I'm leaning toward the Solrock distribution right now. I'd also like to avoid an overlap with Rock/Ghost and Rock/Dark twice, so we'll need a new unique combo for each. I'm thinking Solrock should keep Rock/Ghost (Gravity) in regards to a "dying/dead sun" while Lunatone should keep Rock/Dark (Eclipse) in regards to the "dark side of the moon." What should we add to replace them? Tagging the creators for input The Reptile Kit Kasai

Ghoul King Luvdisc-Broken Heart was supposed to imply that one becomes depressed, angry, etc while in that state of mind and might find oneself in a "dark" place. Jittery Heart is that feeling of new love and I chose Bug because 1) jitterbug :P and 2) jittery reminds me of Rattled, which is activated with a Bug attack (Ghost and Dark, too, but we have Dark already and Ghost would fit better with Zombie Heart or something lol.) I could see Signal Beam going over Bug Buzz, though, for flavor reasons.

 

[canno]

I'm down with having Lunatone with Solrock's stats. As for Rock / Ghost replacement, maybe Poison with a Halloween theme (main reason I did Ghost too btw)

 

[Ghoul King]

Signal Beam would make more sense flavor-wise yeah.

As for Broken Heart, I dunno, I just can't think of a depressed Dark type in the actual games. Depressing sure, but not depressed. The idea of the "I'm so sad" Forme as the "Ima cut you in a dark alley" type just seems very incongruous.

I have never heard "jittery" used to describe someone experiencing love or a crush. Maybe I'm just weird, but the main contexts I've heard the word used in are A: someone whose had too much coffee and B: someone whose had a nasty scare and remained "jittery" for some time afterward. And if I accept it as a valid word for describing someone in the early stages of love, it still doesn't do anything to explain the Bug typing. Luvdisc is experiencing its first crush, time to explode into an exoskeleton? I'd sooner expect "early in love" to be Fairy typed, or maybe Psychic type. (Mind expanding experience type of thing) Or maybe a Fire type if you wanted to push the "passionate=Fire" angle. I'm aware that it's difficult in general to justify a non-Bug shifting to a Bug typing, but this is really bizarre.

As for a Ghost typing, "dead heart" could work just fine. Luvdisc doesn't see any point in living anymore, now it's Ghost typed. Or something, I dunno.

 

[EV]

Signal Beam would make more sense flavor-wise yeah.

As for Broken Heart, I dunno, I just can't think of a depressed Dark type in the actual games. Depressing sure, but not depressed. The idea of the "I'm so sad" Forme as the "Ima cut you in a dark alley" type just seems very incongruous.

I have never heard "jittery" used to describe someone experiencing love or a crush. Maybe I'm just weird, but the main contexts I've heard the word used in are A: someone whose had too much coffee and B: someone whose had a nasty scare and remained "jittery" for some time afterward. And if I accept it as a valid word for describing someone in the early stages of love, it still doesn't do anything to explain the Bug typing. Luvdisc is experiencing its first crush, time to explode into an exoskeleton? I'd sooner expect "early in love" to be Fairy typed, or maybe Psychic type. (Mind expanding experience type of thing) Or maybe a Fire type if you wanted to push the "passionate=Fire" angle. I'm aware that it's difficult in general to justify a non-Bug shifting to a Bug typing, but this is really bizarre.

As for a Ghost typing, "dead heart" could work just fine. Luvdisc doesn't see any point in living anymore, now it's Ghost typed. Or something, I dunno.

Jittery is more or less a play on words. I didn't really put THAT much thought into it other than "hey Water/Bug is a cool typing." If it's going to make you lose sleep at night, I can change it to Infested Heart or Colony Heart or Stung Heart, but Jittery to me just sounded cuter.

 

[Ghoul King]

Infested heart is Nightmare Fuel.

I love it.

 

[canno]

Oh also Eevee could you change Muddy Water to Surf on Lunatone-Gibbouse?

I'll comment on peoples comments tomorrow (its night time here lel)

 

[Kit Kasai]

I'll try to think of some other options for solrock o.o

 

[warriorman222]

I'll try to think of some other options for solrock o.o

You better. I won't be here again. i get to go to bootcamp for air cadets yipee.

Solrock-Hardened is Rock/Fighting type, and Superpower.
Lunatone-Crescent is now Rock/Flying, and gains Air Slash. I'm just reminded of SSBB Spear Pillar Cressilia.

 

[Cookie Butter]

Are all Pokemon reserved or completed?