Super Smash Bros 4 (Spoilers ITT)

I've been looking into it, the other day Sakurai said the main reason the Ice Climbers were cut was because their battle data is too old to be reused and needs to be rebuilt from scratch. People believe that is means we will be seeing the Ice Climbers later as DLC, which I only see possible if Sakurai intentionally left the chant in the game.

If anyone has any more info or corrections, please let me know. It's still not too clear to me.
 
TheMantyke that match was some sick-ass shit, new options with Megaman immediately realised and I really look forward to playing as him some more in the demo until the game's final release. Besides that, has anyone been following whether we intend to use custom moves in tournament settings? Or is it not feasible due to time constraints?
 

Relados

fractactical genius
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I hope the custom moves are designated tournament legal, since they allow so much more variety. Two matches with the same characters fighting will be more exciting when they can have different moves.

Of course, knowing how competitive communities are, they'll either be banned or there will only be certain custom combinations considered good enough to use.

e: yeah im definitely a hypocrite being on smogon means i agree with everything it does and cant have any differing opinions from the people who decide competitive rules

Feel free to disagree with what I say about competitive Smash, but being on Smogon does not inherently make my statements invalid, or nor does it imply that I agree with any gaming community's arbitrary ruleset. I wasn't even shitting on it this time - there will definitely be superior custom move combinations for competitive play that people will understandably use, and it's not unreasonable to consider that they might be banned. Save the blind defense for when I actually make an attack.
 
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Please don't talk shit about competitive smash considering you're posting on smogon "no fun allowed" dot com. The only complaint I've heard at this stage from leaders of the smash community is the completely valid issue of making TOs unlock every custom move on every WiiU (assuming a shared savefile or similar isn't an option). Everything is up to individual TOs for the first few months until a proper ruleset is made, and I wouldn't blame any of them for temporarily banning custom moves to make their job easier.
 

UltiMario

Out of Obscurity
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It's realistic to do customs on 3DS since you can unlock the ones you need to use yourself. It's very easy to unlock the 40 or so customs you're going to need.

Doing it for the whole cast is much harder though. WiiU is gunna need them all unlocked by default for it to be tourney viable. If you have to unlock them, by the time it's expected to have the whole of custom moves, the tourney scene is gunna progress too far without them to look back on it. It kinda sucks.
 

Mew2

Sex is overrated
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I hope the custom moves are designated tournament legal, since they allow so much more variety. Two matches with the same characters fighting will be more exciting when they can have different moves.

Of course, knowing how competitive communities are, they'll either be banned or there will only be certain custom combinations considered good enough to use.
Talks shit about competitive communities and has an account on one where he makes often posts, man I love hypocrites.

IMO making custom moves legal will make Smash Tournaments even more complex; UltiMario and moon bound already covered the unlocking part but let's imagine that every TO unlocks every custom move (sounds a bit silly but for the sake of the argument let's imagine it happens) you will have more than 50 characters with an infinite variety of moves. Of course there are clones and unviable characters so let's say 20 characters with an amazing variety of moves; the metagame will be extremely complex not to mention the insane amount of knowledge and training competitive players will need (ofc there are several competitive complex games like Pokemon and LOL but Smash isn't a strategy game, it's a fighting game). So I'm saying no to the custom moves for now until the metagame has developed enough for a real decision.
 

Layell

Alas poor Yorick!
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Smash isn't much of a stranger to having to unlock stuff.

Match requirements for no items in SSB was 100 matches
SSBM had some tougher character unlock stuff (G&W had 1000 vs matches)
Brawl was easy cakes, although Wolf required some 450 matches to unlock

I for one would love to see custom moves, but perhaps not early in the meta, I'm sure soon enough we'll start seeing them.
 

Dread Arceus

total cockhead
Smash isn't much of a stranger to having to unlock stuff.

Match requirements for no items in SSB was 100 matches
SSBM had some tougher character unlock stuff (G&W had 1000 vs matches)
Brawl was easy cakes, although Wolf required some 450 matches to unlock

I for one would love to see custom moves, but perhaps not early in the meta, I'm sure soon enough we'll start seeing them.
All characters could be unlocked through Subspace Emmisary, just Jiggs, Wolf, and Toon Link you had to go back through secret areas to unlock after beating the game mode. But still, we're talking about 8 parts per character, with 50+ in-game characters...that's over 400 parts that will probably be RNG based (and we all know how kind and merciful RNG is).
 

UltiMario

Out of Obscurity
is a Pokemon Researcher
Other games had relatively easy requirements to unlock everything. G&W could still be unlocked by just going into Target test with every other character and completing it, something that'd take, at most, a half hour.

The worst thing in the history of Smash IMO was unlocking Mewtwo, and you can just leave the game idle to unlock him. You now need to potentially put in hundreds of hours in single player in order to unlock every single customization, something that's just unrealistic to do compared to unlocking things in other games.

If customs don't come up for free in WiiU, it's not unlikely that many of us won't have them all unlocked by the time Smash 5 rolls around, let alone in time for something like Apex 2015.
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
God this game's controls are so hard to get used to and I'm so bad at it. My M.O. is to spam A-Attacks and use the Specials when I remember they exist.

I only have the demo but Mega Man's really fun. Villager's Down B is weird as fuck and I don't see it being very useful in tournament play, but then again I know shit about competitive Smash.
 

Hulavuta

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I've seen so many people say that the controls are extremely hard...but these controls are almost exactly the same as Brawl, whether you played on the WiiMote or Gamecube controller. The only difference is grab should be on the right and shield on the left. Were there some commonly used custom controls that all the good players used that I missed or something?
 

Camden

Hey, it's me!
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As long as I can upgrade my preferred characters at some point I'm more than fine. Also, I'm becoming pretty much okay with the controls, I just wanna turn off tap jump because the definitions for it are too awkward to properly handle.
 

Pic of the day. PAC-MAN makes an appearance on the PictoChat 2 stage. We've included this as an element from Pac-Pix, which was released in 2005. It was quite revolutionary.


(Comment)

There are a lot of new elements in the PictoChat 2 stage. In this screenshot, it looks like there is depth to the stage…or like there isn't. The illusory nature of the drawing is meant to challenge your perspective.
 

Oglemi

Borf
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I've seen so many people say that the controls are extremely hard...but these controls are almost exactly the same as Brawl, whether you played on the WiiMote or Gamecube controller. The only difference is grab should be on the right and shield on the left. Were there some commonly used custom controls that all the good players used that I missed or something?
It's not that the controls themselves are different it's the placement of the controls on the console, for me at least. My hand position is just so off.
 
I've seen so many people say that the controls are extremely hard...but these controls are almost exactly the same as Brawl, whether you played on the WiiMote or Gamecube controller. The only difference is grab should be on the right and shield on the left. Were there some commonly used custom controls that all the good players used that I missed or something?
Its not the 3ds' button config. It's the 3ds, particularly the small
 
The biggest thing for me is the lack of a C-stick making spacing my aerials difficult.

Anyway, on custom moves: It's not a matter of balance, I think. Early on it's more a matter of figuring the game out. There will be plenty of time for messing around with them, and there will likely be tournaments with and without.

What I'd like to see is allow maybe 1 custom move at a time. It would allow you to shore up things like, say, Ike's awful recovery. But you wouldn't have to worry about matchups being so vastly different. Counterpicking custom moves could offer an interesting aspect, especially if the stage selection is smaller.
 

Hulavuta

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It's not that the controls themselves are different it's the placement of the controls on the console, for me at least. My hand position is just so off.
Its not the 3ds' button config. It's the 3ds, particularly the small
That makes sense I guess. On the 3DS XL at least, I had absolutely zero problems getting the controls so that was a bit confusing to me.
 
God this game's controls are so hard to get used to and I'm so bad at it. My M.O. is to spam A-Attacks and use the Specials when I remember they exist.

I only have the demo but Mega Man's really fun. Villager's Down B is weird as fuck and I don't see it being very useful in tournament play, but then again I know shit about competitive Smash.
On the contrary, Villager's down B is one of its best moves. It fits great with Villager's campy playstyle and can be especially useful when luring enemies toward the edge of the stage. Plus, it has great knockback and does hella big damage. The tree can also be useful to meteor falling enemies and whatnot.
 

Deck Knight

Blast Off At The Speed Of Light! That's Right!
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Been playing the demo. Gotta say I've only seen the five characters, but so far so things I noticed:

Link is heavy as hell and hits very hard. The finisher on Up-B is lethal if opponents are at high %. I don't think Clawshot reaches as far as it used to, and Link still falls like a brick. The increased speed of the game makes it easier for him to clear distances, but he also falls like a rock. Link actually feels viable and like a good representation of his games, odd as that might seem to say. Major upgrade from previous entries.

Mario remains well balanced. The arc on the fireball is extremely low now, so it doesn't cover nearly as much distance.

Pikachu got majorly nerfed. Doesn't hit nearly as hard, seems to have few killing options, and Thunder exchanged more quickness for way too much lost power. Agility is also hard to use with 3DS controls, although Wii U should fix that. Maybe some better Pika players have a different opinion, but for the life of me the little rat can't move in for the kill. Even a Smash Ball against Link just wasn't hacking it for a kill. That might be because of Link's newfound iron boots level weight, but it's still kind of sad.

Villager is eclectic, and seems to mix Mario's balanced playstyle with Link's projectile game. Range on non-projectiles is generally atrocious. May need to investigate more.

Megabro is The Man. He doesn't have a good close-range tilt option like the other characters in the demo, but he's got great spacing options, good recovery, and a good air game. Charge Shot doesn't go as far as you'd wish it did, but a quick smash attack can get some distance and earn KOs, and holding it can help fake out dodges, shields, and rolls.
 
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Pikachu's smashes + thunder got nerfed, but his offstage/aerial game is phenomenal. Even with the new ledge mechanics (especially with the new ledge mechanics?) it is incredibly easy to get low % KO's on characters with poor recoveries, like Mario and Link from the demo. Much harder against characters with great recoveries, like Villager.

His smashes still have good reach and deal good damage, though, and he has pretty good combos thanks to his tilts and aerials, which are all pretty good. His top tier recovery got slightly buffed imo (I think they all did?) and I didn't have much trouble controlling it with the 3DS, which was more frustrating at other times (trying to up-tilt rather than jump, ugh).

I feel like Pikachu will feel nerfed to the average player, but as someone who plays him a lot I feel like the changes were a net neutral. Since I suck with Megaman I feel like Pikachu is the best out of the demo characters, even though Link/Mario got buffed and Villager/Megaman are pretty good.
 

Relados

fractactical genius
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One thing I like better is how Quick Attack (it's not Agility) causes decent flinch now. It means it can be pretty useful for an unexpected attack, even if it only does a couple percent at a time.
 
The thing I don't like about Link is that his grab has so much ending lag, which is pretty detrimental, especially since most of the characters have really fast grabs. His dash attack has a tipper apparently, he's gotten faster, and his Dair spike is pretty cool (although he falls really fast, so for a relatively unskilled player like me, it's hard to edgeguard with). He's definitely a lot better than he used to be, I just don't know if his buffs were enough to make him a top level character.
 

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