Other XY OU Viability Ranking: Sets

[Valmanway]

Approved by Haunter and alexwolf

Have you ever looked at some sets on a Pokemon and wondered "Wow. How is this set A+ worthy?", or "Is this set really that much better than the other sets?"? Have you ever just wondered where your favorite sets truly stand in terms of viability? If you answered yes to any of these questions, then let me introduce you to OU Viability Ranking: Sets!

In this thread, we as a community will decide the viability of each individual set for every Pokemon that's viable in OU. There are a few rules here that will explain how things will work around here:

1. If a Pokemon is in the official OU Viability Ranking list, regardless of how bad it is, then that Pokemon is going to be on this list as well. This means that even the D Rank Pokemon are going to be on this list, though this could lead to D+ and/or D- rankings depending on the number and varying viability of the sets, as well as possible S+ and/or S- rankings.

2. Do not make nominations here for Pokemon that are not on the official OU Viability Ranking list. Make those nominations there, as they will be ignored here.

3. A Pokemon's set cannot be ranked higher than its rank in the official OU Viability Ranking list, so Sand Rush Excadrill can't be S Rank here because it's only A+ Rank there. If a Pokemon's ranking is moved down in the official OU Viability Ranking list in a way that would make it lower than one of its set placements here, then its placement here is also lowered. No exceptions.

4. Post maturely and intelligently, as well as with good evidence and support for any nominations you make. I don't want to see any one-liners like "Why is *insert a Pokemon set* A Rank? It sucks, so bring it down!".

5. For the love of god, don't forget rule #4.

The Pokemon To Discuss For Now

Everything Between B+ and B-.

XY OU Ranking: Sets Tier List

(In alphabetical order)

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the OU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

Charizard (Mega-X)

Hide

(Bulky Will-O-Wisp: A+)

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 248 HP / 148 SpD / 112 Spe
Careful Nature
- Earthquake / Fire Punch
- Dragon Claw
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost

(Bulky Dragon Dance: A+)

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 144 HP / 252 Atk / 112 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake / Fire Punch
- Roost

(Dragon Dance: A)

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Punch / Flare Blitz
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Earthquake / Roost

(Swords Dance + Tailwind: A)

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Tailwind
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Earthquake / Fire Punch

Greninja

Hide

(All-Out Special Attacker: S)

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Extrasensory
- Grass Knot / Hidden Power Fire

(Spikes: S)

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spikes
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Extrasensory

Keldeo

Hide

(Choice Specs: S)

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Scald
- Icy Wind / Hidden Power Flying

(Choice Scarf: A+)

Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind

(Substitute + Calm Mind: A)

Keldeo @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Scald
- Secret Sword

Latios

Hide

(Life Orb: S)

Latios @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Surf / Thunderbolt / Hidden Power Fire
- Defog / Roost

(Choice Scarf: A)

Latios @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Trick
- Hidden Power Fire / Surf

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the OU metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits.

A+ Rank

Azumarill (Assault Vest: A+)
(Choice Band: A)
(Belly Drum: A-)

Bisharp (Defiant Attacker: A+)

Charizard (Mega-Y) (Wall Breaker: A+)
(Specially Defensive: A-)

Clefable (Magic Guard + Calm Mind: A+)
(Unaware +Calm Mind: A+)
(Stealth Rock: A)
(Unaware Cleric + Wishpasser: A-)

Gardevoir (Mega) (Offensive: A+)

Garchomp (Focus Sash Lead: A+)
(Choice Scarf: A-)
(Swords Dance: B+)

Gengar (Substitute + 3 Attacks: A)
(Utility Attacker: A)

Heatran (Offensive Air Balloon): A+
(Choice Scarf: A)
(Specially Defensive: A)

Landorus-T (Choice Scarf: A+)
(Offensive Pivot: A)

Landorus (Special Attacker: A+)
(Calm Mind: A+)
(Rock Polish: A+)
(Choice Scarf: A-)

Latias (Offensive Defog: A+)

Mew (Stall Breaker: A+)
(Hazard Control: B+)

Pinsir (Mega) (Swords Dance: A+)

Scizor (Mega) (Bulky Swords Dance: A+)
(Swords Dance + 3 Attacks: A)

Talonflame (Stall Breaker: A+)
(Swords Dance: A+)
(Revenge Killer: A)
(Swords Dance + Natural Gift: B)

Thundurus (Mixed Attacker: A+)
(Nasty Plot: A+)
(Prankster Attacker: A+)

Venusaur (Mega) (Offensive Tank: A+)
(Defensive: A-)

A Rank

Dragonite (Choice Band: A)
(Dragon Dance: A)
(Bulky Roost: A-)

Excadrill (Sand Rush: A)

Ferrothorn (Utility: A)

Gliscor (Specially Defensive: A)
(Substitute + Toxic: A)

Gyarados (Mega) (Mega Dragon Dance: A)
Heracross (Mega) (Wall Breaker: A)
(Swords Dance + Substitute: A)

Manectric (Mega) (Special Attacker: A)

Mamoswine (Focus Sash: A)
(Life Orb: A-)

Medicham (Mega) (Physical Attacker: A)

Rotom-W (Defensive: A)

Slowbro (Physical Wall: A)

Terrakion (All-Out Attacker: A)
(Focus Sash: A)
(Choice Band: A)
(Choice Scarf: A-)

A- Rank

Aerodactyl (Mega) (Physical Attacker: A-)
Diggersby (Swords Dance: A-)
(Choice Scarf: B+)

Jirachi (Specially Defensive: B+)
(Choice Scarf: B+)

Kyurem-B (Life Orb: B+)
(Substitute + 3 Attacks: B+)
(Choice Scarf: B)

Magnezone (Choice Scarf: A-)
(Choice Specs: B+)

Manaphy (Tail Glow: A-)
(Calm Mind: B+)

Politoed (Specially Defensive: A-)

Tyranitar (Choice Scarf: A-)
(Support: A-)
Tyranitar (Mega) (Dragon Dance: A-)

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the OU metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.

B+ Rank

Alakazam (Mega) (Special Attacker: B+)
Breloom (Focus Sash: B+)
(Leech Seed: C)

Celebi (Defensive: B+)
(Offensive: B)
(Baton Pass: B)
Chansey (Support: B+)
(Wish Support: B+)

Hawlucha (Swords Dance: B+)

Hippowdon (Physical Wall: B+)
(Special Wall: B)

Gyarados (Bulky Dragon Dance: B+)
(Specially Defensive: B+)

Kabutops (Physical Attacker: B+)

Kingdra (Mixed Rain Sweeper: B)
(Choice Band: C-)

Raikou (Assault Vest: B+)
(Choice Specs: B)

Rhyperior (Defensive: B+)

Skarmory (Physically Defensive: B+)
(Specially Defensive: B)

Starmie (Defensive: B+)
(Offensive: B)

Suicune (CroCune: B+)

Tornadus-T (Pivot: B+)

Victini (Stall Breaker: B+)
(Wall Breaker: B)
(Trick Room: C+)

B Rank

Alomomola (Wish Pass: B)

Amoonguss (Pivot: B)
Chesnaught (Defensive Spikes: B)

Crawdaunt (Wall Breaker: B)

Lucario (Swords Dance: B)

Mandibuzz (Utility: B)

Omastar (Choice Specs: B)
(Life Orb: C+)

Quagsire (Unaware: B)

Scizor (Choice Band: B)

Scolipede (Quick Pass: B)
(Life Orb: B-)

Zapdos (Defensive: B)

B- Rank

Azelf (Dual Screens: B-)

Conkeldurr (Assault Vest: B-)

Cresselia (Defensive: B-)

Doublade (Defensive Pivot: B-)

Empoleon (Specially Defensive: B-)
(Choice Specs: B-)

Garchomp (Mega) (Mixed: B-)

Gothitelle (Trapper: B-)

Houndoom (Mega) (Nasty Plot: B-)
(Stall Breaker: B-)

Klefki (Dual Screens: B-)

Staraptor (Choice Band: B-)
(Choice Scarf: B-)
(Life Orb: C+)

Sylveon (Choice Specs: B-)
(Cleric: B-)

Togekiss (Defensive: B-)

Weavile (Revenge Killer: B-)

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the OU metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.

C+ Rank

Ampharos (Mega) (Agility: C+)
(All-Out Attacker: C+)
(Specially Defensive: C+)

Cobalion (Volt Switch: C+)

Entei (All-Out Attacker: C+)

Gastrodon (Physically Defensive: C+)

Goodra (Assault Vest Tank: C+)

Magneton (Choice Scarf: C+)
(Choice Specs: C-)

Sableye (Prankster Utility: C+)

Tangrowth (Assault Vest: C+)

Toxicroak (Attacker: C+)

Wobbuffet (Trapper: C+)

C Rank

Aggron (Mega) (Tank: C)

Alakazam (Revenge Killer: C)

Blastoise (Mega) (Rapid Spin: C)

Bronzong (Dual Screens: C)

Chandelure (Choice Scarf: C)
(Stall Breaker: C-)

Ditto (Choice Scarf: C)

Espeon (Dual Screens: C)

Froslass (Suicide Spiker: C)

Infernape (Focus Sash Lead: C)

Lantern (Defensive: C)

Mienshao (Life Orb: C)

Porygon2 (Physically Defensive: C)

Rotom-H (Choice Scarf: C)

Seismitoad (Rain Sweeper: C)

Shuckle (Sticky Web: C)

Slowking (Assault Vest: C)

Smeargle (Quick Pass: C)

Tentacruel (Defensive: C)

Thundurus-T (Agility: C)

C- Rank

Absol (Mega) (All-Out Attacker: C-)

Blissey (Cleric: C-)
(Wish Passer: C-)

Diancie (Tank: C-)

Exploud (Choice Specs: C-)

Gourgeist-Small (Physically Defensive: C-)

Haxorus (Wall Breaker: C-)

Ludicolo (Rain Sweeper: C-)

Noivern (Choice Specs: C-)
(Life Orb: C-)

Tornadus (Prankster: C-)

Volcarona (Bulky Quiver Dance: C-)

Zygarde (Coil: C-)

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the OU metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it.

Cofagrigus (Trick Room: D)

Dugtrio (Revenge Killer: D)

Gorebyss (Quick Pass: D)

Heracross

Hydreigon (Wall Breaker: D)

Jellicent (Defensive: D)

Meloetta (Assault Vest: D)

Metagross (Offensive Pivot: D)

Salamence (MoxieMence: D)

Whimsicott (Prankster: D)

Venomoth (Quiver Dance + Baton Pass: D)

Have fun!

 

[WideTomato]

I think it's fine to include D and S + and/or - rankings, just to be a little creative, and maybe give a more fair rating of the mons in those tiers, as we could (only an example) rank dd zard X S-, which is a little lower than S, but still a little better than A. Additionally if we decide to make S+ and - I think we should bumb azumarill and Thundurus, azu at least, to S+, as I believe most people believe those are S worthier than the other three, at least the only ones not to be nominated down.

I'll try to make a nomination (for the love of god don't ninja me anyone)
I nominate scarfed heatran for A
This set is a pretty nice set that caches some pokes off guard, however it have a harder time against a lot of mons, and teams in general as it can't setup rocks, or cripple opponents with toxic. It have nice 130 spa, but it's lackluster base 77 speed means that it can't reliably revenge kill setup-sweepers, as most will outspeed after a single boost. It also have a harder time switching into talon and zard, as banded bb will hurt a lot more, lacking HP investment, as well as it getting KOed by zard Ys focus miss. It also lacks against sand, without protect, and stall, not being able to taunt to toxic.

 

[Machi]

I think it's fine to include D and S + and/or - rankings, just to be a little creative, and maybe give a more fair rating of the mons in those tiers, as we could (only an example) rank dd zard X S-, which is a little lower than S, but still a little better than A. Additionally if we decide to make S+ and - I think we should bumb azumarill and Thundurus, azu at least, to S+, as I believe most people believe those are S worthier than the other three, at least the only ones not to be nominated down.

They have already made clear they aren't going to create nuances in the S rank so it just isn't up for discussion, especially since they have no intention of bloating up the tier. Nor are S ranks supposed to be compared on that scale they are simply what they are with flaws and all. S ranks are just generally not going to be up for discussion much outside of major changes.

 

[WideTomato]

They have already made clear they aren't going to create nuances in the S rank so it just isn't up for discussion, especially since they have no intention of bloating up the tier. Nor are S ranks supposed to be compared on that scale they are simply what they are with flaws and all. S ranks are just generally not going to be up for discussion much outside of major changes.

1. If a Pokemon is in the official OU Viability Ranking list, regardless of how bad it is, then that Pokemon is going to be on this list as well. This means that even the D Rank Pokemon are going to be on this list, though this could lead to D+ and/or D- rankings depending on the number and varying viability of the sets, as well as possible S+ and/or S- rankings.

Edit: I didn't I was in a rush...
This is not the ranking thread, this is the thread for separate sets, and the OP mentioned that we could split the S and D rank up, depending on how many sets was to be ranked, so dd zard X could be S-, Bulky DD zard X could be S and Tankzard could be A+, not nominating just examples. Azumarill could then be split to AV in S+, BD in S and Band in S.

It wouldn't really make sense to have 3 zard X sets, 3 azu sets, 2 lando-I sets, 3 thundu sets and 2 keldeo sets all in the exact same rank, so in this threat, we're allowed to discus S rank pokemon.

 

[Pagoose]

I really think that you should make a preliminary list for this. If you don't, the next few pages will just be people going "I nominate [X's best set] for [Rank it is currently in]." At the very least, you should add the S and A rank pokemon with only one set, such as Ferrothorn and Charizard Y, as well as the pokemon with one obviously best set, such as Clefable and Rotom-W. We can then nominate other sets they can run for different ranks, without having to do all the obvious ones.

 

[SJCrew]

It'll be easiest to draw a consensus on Pokemon who have only one viable set with minor variations. I would like to start with Landorus:

S Rank
Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast
- Knock Off

Prominent checks: Thundurus, Keldeo, Greninja, Latios, Latias, Azumarill, Mamoswine

Counters: lol.

Why people use this set:

Try fighting an actual battle against this. Trying to switch into Landorus is like trying to make Donphan work in OU. It's just...yeah, you'll win sometimes if you predict correctly, but the odds are generally against you.

I'm not going to go into great detail about a set whose main goal is smack teams into next week. I'm just going to explain the moveset choices since that's where most of the opinions will very. Earth Power and Focus Blast are THE most important moves on this set, and when you see the opposing team, your goal will either be to get in and try to use them as much as possible, or catch and knock out the switch-ins to those moves so that you can clean up with little prediction later in the game.

Legends told of Landorus often laud its ability to break stall teams. This is FAR from exaggerated. A sample of replays from some pretty average stall teams I've collected over time:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-163011482
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-162804823

Aside from the Cresselia on both of them, you'll notice that they're both Lando-weak.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-123696653

Aside from Gothitelle, again, Lando-weak.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-113840984

Assuming he's using that TrickScarf Goth set with Psyshock/Rest/Taunt/Trick that was trending at the time, this one doesn't even cover Lando-I. It's a clean 6-0 once Chansey gets baited.

I've been reading all of those dumb arguments in the tier thread about Lando-I dropping, parroting the phrase 'it's not as good as it once was', which is bullshit. It wasn't even that good of a check to the previous suspects since it couldn't switch into Aegislash or take M-Mawile at +2. Its gameplan on offense still involves luring in its checks and making one or two good predictions to get rid of them for good. If your team is slower, you're basically fucked just seeing it in the preview.

That's about the gist of it. 'Slashes' that weren't mentioned above:

Rock Slide - 90% just for Charizard-Y, a viable choice if your team is weak to it otherwise.

Psychic - Safe move to nail floating switch-ins. Beats Sp. Def Venusaur 1v1. Doesn't do much else.

Sludge Wave - Safe move to nail floating switch-ins. Can 2HKO AV Azu and Sp. Def Sylveon, but garbage otherwise.

Rock Polish - Way too much priority flying around to sweep with and most of the time, you'll be too busy bludgeoning the enemy team to even think about setting up. 4 Attacks is better most of the time because the last move tends to be pretty crucial in what you can allow to check you, and this is often more of a game changer than an anticipated sweep that will never happen.

U-turn - U-turn in general is actually pretty bad on LO mons now. Unless you plan to do some serious damage to your checks with it, you're usually going to shave off 10% without actually doing any damage to a switch-in you should have predicted with a better coverage move. Fortunately for Lando, Latios and Latias love to switch in. If you can catch them, it's a free Pursuit trap and rocks stay up for the rest of the game. This also allows you to pressure Chansey with Bisharp, though Landorus can also do this with its own Knock Off.

D Rank: Physically-based sets

Sand-reliant, sucks, outclassed by Excadrill and Lando-T, basically sucks, and did I mention it sucks? If you want to kick ass at OU, use Sheer Force 100% of the time.

 

[Celticpride]

Just a small suggestion Valmanway, for the first week or two maybe the nominations should only be open to A and S ranks? I feel like that would make things less chaotic. Then, we can move to the B+ or lower ranked things.

 

[SJCrew]

I think I said all of that stuff about U-turn in one sentence:

Fortunately for Lando, Latios and Latias love to switch in. If you can catch them, it's a free Pursuit trap and rocks stay up for the rest of the game.

I'll add Chansey, though. Calm Mind, I was typing about, backspaced and just forgot. I'll add it when I get around to it, or let someone else propose a separate set to be ranked for it.

 

[Karxrida]

This probably goes without saying, but we should only be ranking viable sets for the Pokemon here.

So no shit like Curse Ferrothorn, cause I know someone will bring it up.

 

[Valmanway]

Just a small suggestion Valmanway, for the first week or two maybe the nominations should only be open to A and S ranks? I feel like that would make things less chaotic. Then, we can move to the B+ or lower ranked things.

Yeah, that's a good idea.

So right now we're focusing on the S and A Rank sets guys.

 

[Stef0w]

This probably goes without saying, but we should only be ranking viable sets for the Pokemon here.

So no shit like Curse Ferrothorn, cause I know someone will bring it up.

Isnt it good to mention those sets in a D-rank, So ppl can stop using them.

Seems like the point of the thread is to tell people what to use, and if we dont mention it, Newbs are just gonna assume we forgot it.

 

[jvl101993]

Well I guess I might as well start this out. Please forgive me if this is not the format you are supposed to use. The rules were a bit foggy in this aspect, but never-the-less, here we go. Feel free to delete this post if it's not in the correct format.
I'm going to start out with a pretty unique set that I rarely see on the ladder that I think deserves a little more mention. I know Talonflame is A+ anyways, but I really wanted to throw this out there.

Talonflame @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EV: 248 HP, 252 SpD, 8 Atk
Adamant/Careful Nature
-Bulk Up
-Will-O-Wisp/Taunt
-Roost
-Brave Bird

I've seen many too many Banded sets on the ladder these days. Sure, it's a fantastic revenge killer, but to me, it's a waste of potential. These particular EVs allow Talonflame to survive hits that it normally wouldn't be able to. (I'll put some calcs in here one I get home from school)
You can run Will-O-Wisp to shut down threats like Tyranitar that would normally pose a problem, and you can run Taunt to be able to set up on Heatran.
This set DOES have some problems, however. Talonflame's stats are somewhat lackluster, and you usually don't get a whole lot of damage off unless you have at least two Bulk Ups set up.
To be quite honest, the only reason I don't use this set is because I already have a set up sweeper on my team.

I love Bulk Up Talonflame. It's not the best win-condition, but it is a solid one. The 4th move (WoW or Taunt) changes what it can set up on. WoW helps Talonflame sponge physical attacks a bit better, especially with a boost or two under its belt. I, however, use Taunt. It makes walls, such as Ferrothorn, pure set-up bait, and you can condition your team to take out the main mons that stop bird-spam in general (it really appreciates Tyranitar, Excadrill, and Rotom-W eliminated, among others). If you eliminate the opponent's Flying resists and get a set-up opportunity, Talonflame is a terrific late-game sweeper. I wouldn't say it's the set that makes Talonflame A+: it's probably in the A- to B range. But it can wreck unprepared teams, and it's definitely a viable alternative to the CB set.

 

[Merkur_Lampe]

A Pokemon with one viable set looks pretty simple..

A+ Rank - Life Orb Revenge Killer Greninja
Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Extrasensory
- Grass Knot

Prominent Checks: depends on the coverage moves, and it changes every time.
Counters: Chansey

Having a great ability of Protean and being one of the fastest mon in the tier, Greninja can revenge kill weakened mons reliably. Greninja has a great movepool, and because of this, it is not easy to predict. Hydro Pump and Ice Beam are the moves that are mandatory, and there are a lot of coverage move that you can choose from.

Extrasensory will hit Mega Venusaur, Keldeo, and Conkeldurr.
Grass Knot will hit Azumarill, Alomomola, Starmie, Slowbro, Suicune, Mega Gyarados and Quagsire, while hitting Tyranitar harder.
Hidden Power Grass will hit all of above, although weaker on some targets, and Rotom-W and Manaphy.
Hidden Power Fire can be run, mainly hitting Scizor and Ferrothorn.
Dark Pulse can be used. It will hit Gengar, Alakazam, Mew, Slowbro, Jirachi, and Starmie.
U-turn is viable, providing momentum (and killing Celebi). However, it's not used much.

Is the Spikes set viable? It might be worth ranking, but not very high, obviously. It needs all the coverage it can get.

 

[Miridy]

I can attest spikes greninja viability, while not having stealth rocks is bad, spikes 'ninja strenght is that every defogger will run away from him, except maybe special defensive zapdos which is uncommon, having also one of the highest speeds in OU is also a great deal, and spikes changes greni type to ground, so you also get a temporary volt switch immunity.

 

[Valmanway]

Is the Spikes set viable? It might be worth ranking, but not very high, obviously. It needs all the coverage it can get.

I myself haven't used it, so I can't speak for it. But if someone wants to vouch for Spikes Greninja's viability, then please do. *Edit* Ah, thanks for that, Amy Sorel.

Okay, So I've been adding sets that are either a Pokemon's only set or is its best set beyond doubt. I may be wrong on some of them, so feel free to call me out on the ones that seem off.

 

[Clone]

Lead Sashchomp

[insert picture here]

Garchomp @ Focus Sash/Lum Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Stealth Rock
- Swords Dance / Fire Blast

Standard leadchomp. His role is to set up rocks early game and then proceed to wreck havoc with his dual STABs. He's also able to set up an SD to break through walls early game and abuse a Lum Berry to aid in setting up against mons that like to burn like Rotom or Mew.

If you don't feel like using SD, Fire. Blast is a viable option to 2HKO Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory, mons who otherwise wall him. A Naive Nature doesn't compromise his good physical bulk while simultaneously going Fire Blast a bit more power.

Might edit in Scarfchomp later or make a separate post. All in all though this set in itself is worth his A ranking.

 

[Albacore]

I'm gonna nominate a few sets without actually detailing what they are because I'm going to assume people know the moves these sets run. In any case :

Assault Vest Azumarill --> S : Very easy S rank, great pivot, great tank, huge threat to offense, very easy to use, increadibly easy to put on a team, don't really think I need to explain this more. This is the set that makes Azumarill.
Choice Band Azumarill --> A/A+ : It's usually an inferior choice to AV since Azmarill would rather not be locked in and really loves the ability to beat Thundurus and YZard 1v1, but the extra power can be desireable, especially on sand weak team, and it's still obviously very threatening and easy to place on a team.
Belly Drum Azumarill --> A/A+ : BD is pretty hard to pull off, but it can be really devastating when you actually manage to do it. Even if you don't pull off a BD you still have Sitrus Berry which can be pretty clutch in a lot of situations. Much like the Banded set, not as good as AV, but still very good.
Every Thundurus set --> S : I really can't think of a Thundurus set that doesn't merit S. The standard TWave 3 Attacks set is a powerful attacker with invaluable utility. Nasty Plot is extremely dangerous if you can pull it off, even more so if you forgo the utility of Thunder Wave for a coverage move. Knock Off+Superpower is also great, threatening stuff such as Chansey and Latias that can usually beat you. Really, pretty much any combination of Thunderbolt/TWave/HP Ice or Flying/Knock Off/Focus Blast or Superpower/Psychic/Grass Knot is S-rank worthy, unless you pair up Nasty Plot with Knock Off or Superpower or Psychic with HP Flying or something.
Choice Specs Keldeo --> S : Literally the easiest thing in the world to use, just send it in and click Scald. Even if you don't do much damage, you'll at least have worn something down. Hydro Pump for hitting hard, Secret Sword for special walls and Water resists, then you can pick and choose between Icy Wind, HP Flying, or even HP Electric for Starmie and Gyarados. Very easy to fit on teams, very threatening and can still put in work against teams with multiple Pokemon that resist its dual STAB (ie Latias+Azumarill).
Choice Scarf Keldeo --> A+ : Pretty good revenge killer that gained a lot of popularity recently, however, it's arguably not as good as specs since it's a lot easier to switch into and doesn't really fit on as many teams as the Choice Specs set.
Choice Scarf Excadrill --> B : Not very good... Really, Excadrill needs Sand Support to work at its fullest. As a Scarfer, it's much easier to switch into and to revenge kill, and pretty much eclipsed by Scarf Landorus-T. As a spinner, it sucks becuase it loses momentum like crazy, giving a completely free turn to the opponent.
Choice Band Talonflame --> A-/A : This set kinda struggles in the current metagame. It's shifted from hyper offense more towards bulky offense, and as a result, it doesn't really cause much of a problem for most teams since most have something that can easily switch into it. Also, since setup sweepers are a little less common now, its role of revenge killer is less needed. I haven't used much of that SD or BU sets so I can't really discuss that, and the stallbreaker set is completely and utterly godly and def deserves to be A+.
Offensive LO Starmie --> B : It's just not quite as good as the defensive set. Most offensive teams can very easily fit a Lati so don't really need Starmie in the first place. It's pretty good on hazard-reliant HO which uses a suicide lead, but outside of spinning it's eclipsed by Greninja (though Analytic Hydro Pump is really strong, and Natural Cure is a great perk especially vs Thundurus, so it's not bad or anything, and defensitely has a solid niche, it's just that said nice is not quite as important as Bulky Starmie's niche of providing extremely reliable Rapid Spin support for defensive teams).
Choice Scarf Jirachi --> B-/B : This set is okay I guess, but Jirachi usually wants the bulk and recovery necessary to consistently counter MGardevoir, so the Scarf set just isn't as good as the SpD set for the most part.
Defensive Mega-Venusaur --> A- : It's not as good as the offensive set since it's far easier to switch into and doesn't fit quite as well on bulky offensive teams, but it's still pretty decent on stall and semi-stall, just somewhat eclipsed by Amoonguss.
Choice Scarf Rotom-W --> C- : Garbage set that completely forfeits Rotom-W's bulk and ability to act as a slow pivot+switch into certain threats for the ability to act as a much, much, much worse Lando-T and maybe lure Chansey. Should not be used no matter what the ladder thinks.

oh yeah and I think that we should have an E-rank for sets that are completely and utterly terrible but that some people still use for whatever reason (see: physical Greninja)

 

[BONGMASTER420]

Pinsir-Mega @ Pinsirite
Ability: Aerilate
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: null SpA
- Swords Dance
- Quick Attack
- Earthquake
The god of destruction is here. M Pinsir has nasty attack. Its ability and the fact it gets priority is even better. Pinsir forces a lot of thing out and it can use that switch to set up.For the last slot you can use Earthquake or Close Combat depending on your team. Frustration and 0 happiness is for Ditto.

+1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 286-337 (74.8 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 331-391 (94 - 111%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 334-394 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 404-476 (100.2 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Checks: Talonflame, Slowbro, Support Tyranitar if running Earthquake


Counters: Bulky Lando T

 

[michaeloche]

I'm going to talk about Terrakion first. It basically has two sets: offensive and lead. Offensive is basically Stone Edge, Close Combat, and pretty much whatever the hell you want (boosting moves, EQ, Quick Attack on occasion, even HP Ice) for the last two moves, with either Life Orb or a choice item. Lead runs Stealth Rock, Taunt, and usually those two attacks with Focus Sash. Offensive is well deserving of A+ IMO, but I find dedicated SR leads to be overrated in this day and age, because most stuff can get rid of it and there's a fair amount that just doesn't give a shit about rocks for whatever reason. That being said, it's still good at what it does, at least comparable to lead Garchomp mentioned previously, and isn't useless if it can't or shouldn't set up rocks for whatever reason. So A for lead, A+ for offensive.

Also, I've been seeing people running stallbreaker sets on Talonflame recently (Taunt, Will-o-Wisp, BB, Roost). I know Albacore mentioned it as well, and I agree with him that it deserves a high rank. For comparison, stallbreaker Mew (which is what you should be running if you use Mew) is A, and stallbreaker TF is much better than CB, so I can see it easily in A or A+.

edit: lol, post 666

 

[trc]

while looking through the thread I had some noms to make and albacore covered a lot of them. i definitely agree with avestzu, specs keldeo, and np 3 attacks / twave 3 attacks / np + twave thund in s rank, id probably put physical variations or mixed ones in a+ but i don't feel too strongly about that. some form of four attacks landorus is another solid s ranker, but offensive stealth rock, calm mind, and rock polish are probably a+ individually. i'd put cb azu and bd azu at a rank personally, cb azu is strong but it really treads on avest's territory of being able to check a ton of pokemon. finally, ive used spikes greninja and it's pretty great actually, forces switches like no other while still maintaining great offensive power.

in summary:
Assault Vest Azumarill = S Rank
Choice Specs Keldeo = S Rank
NP 3 Attacks Thundurus = S Rank
TWave 3 Attacks Thundurus = S Rank
NP + TWave Thundurus = S Rank
4 Attacks Landorus = S Rank
Offensive SR Landorus = A+ Rank
CM " = A+ Rank
RP " = A+ Rank
CB Azu = A Rank
BD Azu = A Rank
4 Attacks Greninja = A+ Rank
Spikes Greninja = A+ Rank

love this thread btw, ill have to post in it often. there's a lot to talk about so itll be fun.

 

[Celticpride]

Are we supposed to post the sets we are nominating, or are we just nominating sets like TRC and Albcore did?

 

[Valmanway]

Are we supposed to post the sets we are nominating, or are we just nominating sets like TRC and Albcore did?

You don't have to add the set, like showing the moves, EVs, etc... Just mentioning the name of the set like TRC and Albacore have is perfectly fine. You can show the specifics of the set if you want, I'm just saying that it's not required is all.

 

[Machi]

It'll be easiest to draw a consensus on Pokemon who have only one viable set with minor variations.

This is I think sums up my gripe about having to make nuances on S rank since you have mons on S rank with practically only one viable set with minor variations, e.g. Lando/Thundrus/Keldeo. That I think trying to make nuances just end up complicating an otherwise straight forward set that is simple yet effective.

 

[Escavalier]

Rock Polish - Way too much priority flying around to sweep with and most of the time, you'll be too busy bludgeoning the enemy team to even think about setting up. 4 Attacks is better most of the time because the last move tends to be pretty crucial in what you can allow to check you, and this is often more of a game changer than an anticipated sweep that will never happen.

You're so wrong it's not even funny
Out of all of the win conditions that I've used in the current meta, RP Landorus has been bar none the most consistent, and it's easy to see why.

Nobody stacks Landorus counters on offense - that's impossible. There's only like 2 Lando counters (Cress & Blissey) and surprise neither of them fit on offense lol. Offense is stacked with checks like Keldeo, Latis, Greninja and Azumarill.
The only one of those that even bothers RP Landorus is Azumarill, so yeah just take AV Azu down to like 50% and you should be good
The ability to outspeed the entire meta, including lord Excadrill, and be able to one hit 90% of offense mons means that with just a tiny bit of support to weaken the mons that can sponge a hit, you flat out sweep. It isn't as good as 4 attacks I'll admit, but you're acting like it's a horrible waste of a mon when really it just auto wins some teams at +2
Oh yeah before I forget can I point out that the reason RP Lando works so well is surprise factor - nobody's going to insurance sack to avoid the RP, so yeah you get to set up in front of stuff like XZard and MMedi which could easily threaten you.
btw yeah I see it's already been put in A+ and that's honestly the best place for it, it's not S rank but damn it's a fucking good set.

Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 104 Atk / 252 SpA / 152 Spe
Rash Nature
- Rock Polish
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- Knock Off

EVs to take on Excadrill in sand, wish I could invest more in atk to OHKO Latias but what can you do.

 

[Aragorn the King]

This thread looks really fun n.n

jw, every time a change is made in the normal thread, will you update it here? Like for now I can only nominate scarf magnezone to b+, while it honestly deserves a/a- (and will rise very soon). Also in the same regard, can you move things down before they move down on the real thread? Like it's pretty obvious Ferro is gonna move down to a, so can I nominate it to go down before it does?

Anyway that's enough for the clarification.

Scarf Lando-T for A+: This is just a beast now. It's really good (best scarfer imo in the tier), and it's definitely better than the bulky one, which is already A+.

Stealth Rock Magic Guard Clefable for A: This isn't able to act as a win condition like its CM variant, but it still spectacular for its mixed walling ability (handles ninja + thundy + most physical stuff), ability to act as a reliable rocker, and possible clerical duties.

Unaware Clefable for A: Really awesome cleric able to wall most every setup sweeper (not charx, pinsir, sharp, zor...). It hates losing magic guard, but in turn loves ignoring stat boosts.

Tail Glow + Rain Dance Manaphy for A (A- I guess..., but it'll move up on the real thread really soon): RainGlow Manaphy is really cool, for its ability to decimate stall + sand offense. That's about it; it's just really awesome.

Calm Mind Manaphy for B: Generally outclassed by Suicune in this role, but does have some perks, like not having to rely on Sleep Talk ever.

Tail Glow + 3 Attacks Manaphy for B-/C+: Pretty mediocre. It doesn't beat the two things RainGlow Manaphy beats, stall and sand offense, nearly as well, and it struggles v. offense a lot more than the cm set. It's just really blah.

SubPP Victini for B+: Really solid mon, able to beat its checks and counters while checking two dominant threats

Bulky Victini for B+: Will-o-Wisp + the extra bulk is really nice, and lets tini fit really well on stall teams.

Choice Band Victini for B+: Definitely the most instantly scary Victini. It crushes offense when given the opportunity of getting in, which is often possible thanks to mega gardevoir.

Choice Scarf Victini for B: Really solid revenge killer, but lacks the big umph its other sets have. It also hates that it usually can't revenge kill multiple things, thanks to vcreates speed drop.

Special Victini for C+/B-: It's not bad at all, it's just that it really misses V Create + Bolt Strikes accuracy and power. It just doesn't break things the way cb does, and usually isn't worth using over it.