The Everything NFL Punter Thread - 2014/2015 Season

[WaterBomb]

Rodgers isnt a good example because he was drafted to a perennial playoff team with a future HOF QB so there was really no choice but to have him sit. Brady of course was the biggest draft steal ever but he was a 6th round pick nonetheless.

I know, I was just playing devil's advocate. Are you saying that Rodgers didn't benefit from being able to sit and observe a future HoF QB in action? Just because they had to sit him because their franchise QB was still in his prime doesn't mean that's their ONLY reason for sitting him.

Tom Brady also benefited I feel as Drew Bledsoe wasn't exactly a slouch.

 

[Killah]

Can you actually name examples of where QBs benefited from sitting on the bench as opposed to playing in their rookie season? I honestly cant think of many except for maybe Kaepernick and he was a 2nd round pick.

People believe in this "awful fallacy" because they see the success of rookie QBs who started from day 1 like Luck, Newton, RG3, Ryan, Big Ben etc.

Also how the fuck is having a QB wait important for their health?

If starting immediately did not have any negative effect on young quarterbacks, why do so many of them seem to have a sophomore slump?

All the quarterbacks you listed, save perhaps maybe Luck, whose first season was actually pretty mediocre when you consider his volume, had special circumstances that led to their first season. Roethlisberger literally had a championship team around him. Ryan had an elite O-Line and running game, and possibly WR1 (whether Roddy was elite at that point is debatable). Newton and RG3 had their legs to bail them out and keep the defenses off balance, something Bortles/Ponder/Gabbert/Clausen did/do not have.

Four of the five quarterbacks you listed (Except for Luck, who coincidentally had the worst season of the five) regressed their following seasons. In my opinion, regressing after a full offseason is not something a properly developing quarterback should do!

Sadly, we have an extreme lack of data for young quarterbacks actually waiting patiently on the bench, probably the fault of Ryan/Flacco's year 1 success. It's really anyone's guess at which is better at this point, but I do truly believe that Bortles is in a far better position than Gabbert was at stepping in and being successful.

 

[xJownage]

1. Brady learned one thing from bledsoe that made him what he is, this was also gabberts exact problem he never fixed. Bradys scouting report said things very simply: everything he does he needs to do faster. Are you going to tell me brady didnt learn from bledsoe? The only reason he won was because of the team around him.

Mercy, do us all a favor and dont fucking cuss like i just did. It doesnt add anything, and its just tacky and shows a lack of ability to use better adjectives.

Lets take a look at the jags franchise. Mark brunell sat in the jags expansion season and took the team to the playoffs each of the next 4 years.
Aaron rodgers...you say its situation, but are you really suggesting that aaron rodgers would be just as good if he had to start for green bay immediately, or better yet san fransisco.

Suggesting any of the qbs besides luck are moderately successful is a joke. Not including ryan who had a great team around him (that defense was so underrated when he got in the league)

How about matthew stafford, who still has the same problem he did his rookie year: sloppy footwork.

What about Kurt warner? What about Tony Romo (despite his lack of SB success you cant say he isint a GOOD qb)? Philip Rivers? Drew Brees? These are just qbs from today off the top of my head. How many busts are there who get thrown in to early? I could make a list the size of this webpage.

 

[Mr.E]

"Year 1 Aaron Rodgers starting immediately" might not be as good as "Year 4 Aaron Rodgers having sat three years on the bench," but I bet "Year 4 Aaron Rodgers having started the previous three years" would be similarly good. The fact that he sat behind a future HoF QB goes along with coaching; you learn from good coaching and quality players around you. I don't see how not playing those games can actively help anybody get better. That doesn't mean a player can't grow on the practice field too but surely it will happen more slowly without also getting the actual real-game experience, no?

The only concern is that Years 1-3 Aaron Rodgers might have gotten injured before hitting his prime, whereas sitting on the bench hs basically entered his prime with no tread on the tires, but I don't think this is a big deal for a non-RB position.

 

[xJownage]

That is what I JUST EXPLAINED.

Basically: Rookie starter has time crunch with playbook and learning schemes and learning nfl throws = it being a much slower development. Learning new things is hard when you are a starter, go back a page and look at my post before you ask me about my logic.

 

[Mr.E]

hey man you fucking asked the question "Aaron rodgers...you say its situation, but are you really suggesting that aaron rodgers would be just as good if he had to start for green bay immediately." YES, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM SUGGESTING. Or at least I am agreeing with your assumption that someone else suggested it. Don't bitch at me because you received a question to an answer you asked. You can read all the books you want, take all the classes you please, run through simulations till your brain explodes but there are just some things you can simply never truly understand until you actually go out, do the job, and experience everything first-hand. What makes football (maybe sports in general) different from literally any other task/duty/profession in the world that this would not be the case for quarterbacks?

At any rate, considering there are numerous samples of guys showing immediate success as a starter (and no Killah, sophomore slump doesn't necessarily mean negative things... opposing teams have film on this guy now, still learning, perhaps simply random variance / regression to the mean) I really don't see how one could definitively say it's the reason for the lack of success of the ones that don't. Teams should play the guy that gives them the best chance to win. If they can afford to groom their QB-of-the-future on the bench for a while, great. But when your choice is Chad Henne and Matt Cassel gets injured, well hey maybe Bortles should be out there after all and Bridgewater is going out there whether he wants to or not.

 

[Shinryu]

To be fair, Yr 1 Rodgers might've been drafted by the Niners if he was that good, and we all know what happened to Alex Smith during the Niner's bad years and OC shuffling. So Rodgers sitting and having a stable environment to further hone his skills is good in a way. Now obviously everyone is different, so to me it's largely a case by case basis on whether to start your shiny new QB. But you obviously don't draft them high just to warm the bench.

 

[Deschain]

i mean ideally you draft your QB of the future when you don't need one yet.

that rarely happens.

 

[some hero]

I hope the skins trade RG3 to the Rams for a 2nd round pick.

 

[xJownage]

Im dropping this argument because you have completely ignored everything i have tried to say with blindness. Yes it is different. Its called an extreme time crunch. You never adressed this, just comparing it to other jobs. Well guess what?

NFL jobs =/= other jobs

 

[Imanalt]

I hope the skins trade RG3 to the Rams for a 2nd round pick.

No concerns about the fact that cousins for his career has roughly a turnover for every 20 touches (which hes continuing today)? Given how often the team that turns the ball over less wins, this should be an absolute no go unless cousins is an elite qb turnovers removed. I struggle to say anyone is elite across a sample of 284 passes, but especially not when his career y/a is only 7.0. Can we just stop the cousins hype now?

EDIT CORRECTION: its getting worse than 1/20 for cousins today,,

 

[Milos]

i mean, idk why people were hyping up cousins so much, last year he became the starter when RG3 went down and played pretty badly. this year he had a great game against the JAGUARS and another great game against the eagles (which involved A LOT of short passes for big gains and short TDs). why do people start the hype train after such a small sample size? chances are we'll see more games where cousins plays like he did tonight than when he played against philly.

 

[WaterBomb]

i mean, idk why people were hyping up cousins so much, last year he became the starter when RG3 went down and played pretty badly. this year he had a great game against the JAGUARS and another great game against the eagles (which involved A LOT of short passes for big gains and short TDs). why do people start the hype train after such a small sample size? chances are we'll see more games where cousins plays like he did tonight than when he played against philly.

So you question why people hype him with a small sample size, then turn around and write him off based on an equally small sample size?

 

[Milos]

So you question why people hype him with a small sample size, then turn around and write him off based on an equally small sample size?

i'm just giving you my opinion. i don't think cousins will pan out to be a good QB. he plays well in spurts. if he ends up having a great season, great for him, but personally i'm not convinced by the way he's played thus far.

there have been backup QBs that have gone on to become franchise quarterbacks (brady, rodgers, roethlisberger), but there have been a ton more of who didn't end up doing much. i won't write cousins off COMPLETELY, i mean even brady threw 4 picks in a game his first year as a starter, all i'm saying is that there's more chance of him not doing much than him becoming the franchise QB in washington.

 

[WaterBomb]

i'm just giving you my opinion. i don't think cousins will pan out to be a good QB. he plays well in spurts. if he ends up having a great season, great for him, but personally i'm not convinced by the way he's played thus far.

there have been backup QBs that have gone on to become franchise quarterbacks (brady, rodgers, roethlisberger), but there have been a ton more of who didn't end up doing much. i won't write cousins off COMPLETELY, i mean even brady threw 4 picks in a game his first year as a starter, all i'm saying is that there's more chance of him not doing much than him becoming the franchise QB in washington.

That's a fair point. I probably came off a little condescending, my apologies. I feel the same way, I just think we should wait til at least the end of the season before we even begin to analyze him.

 

[DM]

Starting QBs should not be judged in a sample size smaller than 20 games. You have no idea what kind of QB they are until around that point.

 

[xJownage]

Geno smith hasnt started 20 games yet either. I think that dude could be a very good qb. He doesnt have a great supporting cast tho

 

[gsninja]

This Packers/Bears game is very well-officiated. ;)

 

[Stallion]

My boy Flacco playing an awesome game so far. Good Joe should show up more often :)

 

[DetroitLolcat]

This thread is about to get Water-CarpetBombed...


also LIONS YEAHHHH I'VE GOT SUPER BOWL FEVER AND THERE AIN'T NO CURE TILL FEBRUARY!

 

[CPrime]

Soooo can the season be over yet?

 

[uragg]

damn panthers just looked pretty bad today, didn't they shit the bed vs pitt last week as well? guess early season hype train getting derailed

 

[WaterBomb]

My boy Flacco playing an awesome game so far. Good Joe should show up more often :)

his stats are horribly misleading. The first TD throw to Smith was a terrible throw that was luckily tipped right into the WR's hands in stride, and the second throw he was falling backwards and just heaved it up for grabs, again getting lucky that Smith came down with it. The Ravens did deserve to win that game because they outplayed Carolina all over the field, but giving Joe Flacco the credit for it is an absolute insult to the rest of the team. EDIT: his third TD pass was nice though, I will give him that.

As for Pittsburgh, well, lol. When you commit that many penalties you don't deserve to win in the NFL, and they didn't, so it was just. They just need to get that stuff figured out ASAP before they start facing their tougher opponents.

 

[macle]

suck on it bear fans

 

[Camden]

It's such a relief to see us win a game this early in the season. I was starting to get scared that we'd have another 0-8 start, but luckily, we nipped that in the butt. Glennon still needs more time to develop, but I'm loving what he brings to the table, and I feel like he could be a really good QB in the future.

Also holy shit 5 sacks. Poor Ben.