Doesn't Keldeo carry hp electric (scarf set)?
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Electric vs. 248 HP / 96+ SpD Gyarados: 216-256 (54.9 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Down goes your keldeo counter.
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252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Electric vs. 248 HP / 96+ SpD Gyarados: 216-256 (54.9 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Down goes your keldeo counter.
Gliscor, unaware clefable, and doublade are all very good answers that can stop it among other things.
It looks like, given last month's stats, HP Electric is a minority factor (<20% in most scenarios). It's a bigger concern that it runs HP Flying if you use Venusaur as its counter as it's more common and physical defence Venusaur will have problems walling that (with a guaranteed 2HKO if Stealth Rocks are up).
I think RestTalk Gyarados is a fine option in that case.
I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM
formerly Smog Frog
u know how crawdaunt shits on most defensive teams rn
well just use chesnaught, stops the fucker cold
well just use chesnaught, stops the fucker cold
This thread has actually been very helpful for me in building stall, I'd like to offer some ideas about what I've personally found useful. Most of this will already have been discussed, but Doublade beats a huge number of the new wallbreakers that have emerged after aegi's ban, as well as taking on the latis ok. In particular, Heracross is particularly difficult to beat outside of Doublade, so really, when I build stall now, Doublade is one of the first mons that I add on.
Although Shed Shell Skarm has already been discussed, I feel like now, due to the increasing usage of magnezone, and in particular the bunnyspam team, it is the absolute best item choice at the moment, as otherwise you can't defog safely against any team with a magnezone on it, and it becomes much easier to pressure your stealth rock weak mons, such as, say, Char X.
Other than that, a pokemon I would particularly like to talk about is Celebi. It is a strong choice for the grass type of your team (if you choose to run one, as stall structure tends to be slightly less formulaic than it used to be), taking on Keldeo well, but equally notably, if you run some defence on it for Knock Offs, it can take on Landorus without sludge wave just fine. It takes pressure off of your cleric, or lessens the need for one, and can offer strong utility such as stealth rock, perish song to force switches, or it can be the cleric on your team rather than taking pressure off of one. However, I recommend running Baton Pass on it, not for passing stat boosts, but to dry pass out of Bisharp/non scarf ttar pursuit traps.
At any rate, the short version of what I want to say is this: To take on bunny spam, Shed Shell Skarm + Doublade + something bulky that can take hits from both Garchomp and Azu, such as Slowbro, is a good place to start. Furthermore, Celebi beats a good number of threatening OU pokemon and has much it can offer in the way of utility for stall, so its increase in usage is well deserved.
Although Shed Shell Skarm has already been discussed, I feel like now, due to the increasing usage of magnezone, and in particular the bunnyspam team, it is the absolute best item choice at the moment, as otherwise you can't defog safely against any team with a magnezone on it, and it becomes much easier to pressure your stealth rock weak mons, such as, say, Char X.
Other than that, a pokemon I would particularly like to talk about is Celebi. It is a strong choice for the grass type of your team (if you choose to run one, as stall structure tends to be slightly less formulaic than it used to be), taking on Keldeo well, but equally notably, if you run some defence on it for Knock Offs, it can take on Landorus without sludge wave just fine. It takes pressure off of your cleric, or lessens the need for one, and can offer strong utility such as stealth rock, perish song to force switches, or it can be the cleric on your team rather than taking pressure off of one. However, I recommend running Baton Pass on it, not for passing stat boosts, but to dry pass out of Bisharp/non scarf ttar pursuit traps.
At any rate, the short version of what I want to say is this: To take on bunny spam, Shed Shell Skarm + Doublade + something bulky that can take hits from both Garchomp and Azu, such as Slowbro, is a good place to start. Furthermore, Celebi beats a good number of threatening OU pokemon and has much it can offer in the way of utility for stall, so its increase in usage is well deserved.
Celebi, huh? I've seen a rise of it in the last XY Smogon Tours though it's another stallmon weak to tauntgar, argh I hate that thing and I must say it really is good.
This is not bw, where Celebi was top OU, as such you'll never find hp bug keldeo, which means that Celebi is a good answer to it, lan-incarnate also rarely has u-turn atm, though sludge wave and knock off are problematic, celebi can also cover thundurus with some pdef evs, being a check to the common "genie core" and keldeo is a big plus for a pokemon in the actual metagame, the set I use is psychic recover, baton pass, earth power with 108 speed evs, which allows you to surpass adamant diggersby, adamant dragonite, adamant gyarados and jolly breloom/bisharp (you can never be too much sure against that thing) while not having a grass stab might seem bad psychic+ground is still an acceptable coverage, and as stated by Bizdis Baton Pass is a must.
Speaking of the "double bunny" team and solutions about it... (don't hurt me please) did someone thought about Air Baloon Diancie?
While air baloon might seem gimmicky as a choice (as such also unexpected) it allows you to completely stop leadchomp, while also setting up stealth rocks, can check in a pinch diggersby if it took some damage (moonblast from the OU Tank set 2hkos) stops latios, stops pinsir, even with earthquake if someone wants to destroy doublade too, it is also not trapped by magnezone or magneton, or heck, even dugtrio if Air Baloon is in play.
This is not bw, where Celebi was top OU, as such you'll never find hp bug keldeo, which means that Celebi is a good answer to it, lan-incarnate also rarely has u-turn atm, though sludge wave and knock off are problematic, celebi can also cover thundurus with some pdef evs, being a check to the common "genie core" and keldeo is a big plus for a pokemon in the actual metagame, the set I use is psychic recover, baton pass, earth power with 108 speed evs, which allows you to surpass adamant diggersby, adamant dragonite, adamant gyarados and jolly breloom/bisharp (you can never be too much sure against that thing) while not having a grass stab might seem bad psychic+ground is still an acceptable coverage, and as stated by Bizdis Baton Pass is a must.
Speaking of the "double bunny" team and solutions about it... (don't hurt me please) did someone thought about Air Baloon Diancie?
While air baloon might seem gimmicky as a choice (as such also unexpected) it allows you to completely stop leadchomp, while also setting up stealth rocks, can check in a pinch diggersby if it took some damage (moonblast from the OU Tank set 2hkos) stops latios, stops pinsir, even with earthquake if someone wants to destroy doublade too, it is also not trapped by magnezone or magneton, or heck, even dugtrio if Air Baloon is in play.
Air balloon Diancie actually does pretty well against bunny spam, when you think about it. The only problem is that a full health Diggersby can pop the balloon with return, then wreck it with EQ. Ideally, we would to avoid overspecialising to beat certain strategies. Teching a new item on skarm doesn't seem like a massive leap to me, but running a not often used mon with an uncommon item does. It may be something to experiment with though, as initially, running a NFE pokemon like Doublade seemed ridiculous to me, now I realise it is more or less essential. A major problem with Diancie though is lack of reliable recovery, a susceptible to all status, and it can't pressure opposing teams too well. To use it effectively, you'd have to be able to provide support to play around this.
What is the benefit of baton pass over u-turn on celebi?
At least on defensive sets.
U-turn least gives some chip damage.
At least on defensive sets.
U-turn least gives some chip damage.
cuz evades pursuit
so does u-turn
Welp. Unless I'm wrong, I assume Spdef Celebi runs close to min speed. In which then, Pursuit would totally maim it. If the opposing Pokémon uses Pursuit on the same turn U-turn is used, Pursuit will deal normal damage if the opponent is faster, or double damage if the opponent is slower than the user. It should be better to run Baton Pass.
U-Turn doesn't avoid Pursuit, whoever used it will receive the damage at 80 BP after selecting the mon you wish to switch to, but with Baton Pass you don't and the mon you switch to will take the hit at the normal 40 BP.
I'm getting conflicting information about this. Might be worth bringing it up in the battle mechanics thread to see how the games do it.
Since we're citing Bulbapedia, U-turn's page says this:
And Baton Pass' says this:
Long story short, the U-turn user DOES get hit by Pursuit, but the power amount changes based on Speed. The Baton Pass user DOES NOT get hit by Pursuit (provided they are faster than the Pursuit user of course). So if you DON'T want Celebi taking Pursuit damage, use Baton Pass. If Pursuit damage is completely fine by you, or you need chip damage more than an alive Celebi, use U-turn.
There is not conflicting information. There is only conflicting information providers.
Ok, I updated the pursuit page on bulbapedia to hopefully make it clearer. (Whatever happened to smogon's extended move descriptions anyway? Those were really useful)
Ah. That makes sense. I misread it as being an all-or-nothing situation where either double damage was dealt to the switch out or regular damage to the switch in.
Anyone else seen a rise in Knock Off Mega Pinsir on teams with Magnezone? Shed Shell Skarmory doesn't feel so safe any more, neither does Doublade. On the plus side, Mega Aerodactyl and Mega Ampharos don't mind, especially Mega Ampharos who was a riskier choice against Mega Pinsir due to Earthquake despite being bulkier.
That's a sad trend that I've heard about but not yet experienced. Hopefully, it will die out soon, due to Pinsir really missing out on its coverage move - with this, stuff like Heatran and Tyranitar beat it, and I'd assume that the opposing player would not want to be in such a disadvantageous situation against other playstyles.
Like you said, there are other mons to deal with it then, but they are slightly more obscure than just running an otherwise odd item on Skarm. I reckon that people are only going to bother to prepare for a playstyle which is reasonably uncommon to a certain extent. Despite this new (and in my opinion, overly specialised) trend, I reckon that Shed Shell is still the preferred item for Skarm - I don't expect this tech choice to last for too long.
It's a hilarious trend because you shouldn't be using Doublade to counter Pinsir-mega anyways... And earthquake would still be a better coverage if you were freaking out over it.
I always have something like Rhyperior or Aggron to tank a Pinsir and just a check around if needed... EQ Aggro will still smash Magnezone and you invest Spdef anyways.
I always have something like Rhyperior or Aggron to tank a Pinsir and just a check around if needed... EQ Aggro will still smash Magnezone and you invest Spdef anyways.
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