XY OU Mega Charizard Y Team 2.0

[Cloud_Nine987]

Hey there! I've been toying around with this Charizard Y team lately, and it's pretty solid for the most part. However, Pokemon like Greninja easily 6-0 the team between Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, HP Fire, and Extrasensory, so I'm looking for a bit of insight as to what I can improve.

All of these Pokemon are currently in-game. I don't know exactly where Aegislash stands because of the suspect test, so a replacement for him might be necessary. Keep in mind that I don't have access to gen5 RNG, so I can't get tutor moves on anything else. So, on to the team.

Charizard @ Charizardite Y - Hasty Nature (Drought)
EVs: 252 Attack / 4 Sp. Attack / 252 Speed
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Earthquake
- Roost

I know I said I didn't want to rebreed Zard in a previous revision, but at this point, I just want to be able to get this team done after over 2 months of work on it. This is a mixed zard with Flare Blitz and Earthquake to help diminish the HP of Charizard's normal counters. Chansey takes much more damage from Flare Blitz than Fire Blast, and Heatran is also OHKO'd by Earthquake. However, he still falls victim to the Lati twins, who are handled by the following mon.

Bisharp @ Black Glasses - Adamant Nature (Defiant)
EVs: 252 Attack / 4 Defense / 252 Speed
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit
- Iron Head

I never really thought Ttar as a fast mon, but with the Choice Scarf attached he's up there. Pursuit and Crunch trap and kill the Latis and other psychic and ghost-types. Since Ttar is also my main birdspam counter, Rock Slide is necessary to KO them. Ice Beam catches a lot of people off-guard, specifically when they switch in Gliscor or Landorus-T. However, when Gliscor is on the field, I have to be careful about selecting Ice Beam only for the opposing Gliscor to Protect out of it, and then knowing not to bring in Gliscor on Ttar for the rest of the match. Changed back to Bisharp!

Keldeo @ Life Orb - Timid Nature (Justified)
EVs: 24 HP / 232 Sp. Attack / 252 Speed
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Scald
- Hidden Power Flying

Azumarill was formerly used in this spot, but I figured that I needed a .25 steel resist so I subbed him for keld recently. Instead of Choice Specs, I have Life Orb on him because ttar already has a choice item and having access to 4 moves is very handy. The first three moves are standard on keld, and even though HP Flying targets mega venusaur, it also does major damage to hera.

Latias @ Life Orb - Timid Nature (Levitate)
EVs: 252 Sp. Attack / 4 Sp. Defense / 252 Speed
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Healing Wish
- Defog

The team's defogger. Healing Wish is great for giving a sweeper another shot, assuming Latias can live long enough to use it. Defog is necessary because it removes the hazards that plague Zard. Draco Meteor and Psyshock are two options I use to kill Mega-Venu and other dragons. I'm considering using Dragon Pulse over Draco meteor but DM seems to have greater power and utility.

Clefable @ Leftovers - Bold Nature (Magic Guard)
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Defense / 60 Sp. Defense
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Fire Blast
- Soft-Boiled

I realized my team could be plowed through by Dnite's outrage relatively easily (other than playing intimidate games with landog) so I added Clefable. However, I felt that Unaware Clefable was just too passive, so I went with a Magic Guard set that provides good utility. Clef can live quite a few special attacks and sometimes even heal the damage caused with its leftovers. Softboiled is reliable recovery.

Landorus-T @ Choice Scarf - Jolly Nature (Intimidate)
EVs: 24 HP / 252 Attack / 232 Speed
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Superpower

My usual lead is now Landorus-T. It used to be hippo, but the combination of Intimidate and Smack Down is almost too good. Smack Down may be a kind of obscure option on lando, but over the course of the 50+ battles I've used with this team, I've smacked down and killed many Rotom-W with earthquake. None of them switched out of Smack Down, for some reason. 104 Speed outspeeds azu and a bunch of other threats like breloom.

Importable

Charizard-Mega-Y (M) @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 40 Atk / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fire Blast
- SolarBeam
- Earthquake
- Roost

Keldeo-Resolute @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 24 HP / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Scald
- Hidden Power [Flying]

Bisharp (M) @ Black Glasses
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Iron Head

Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Healing Wish
- Defog

Clefable (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 116 Def / 146 SpD
Brave Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Fire Blast

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Superpower
- U-turn

So, yeah, that's my team! Thanks for reading this huge wall of text. As always if you have any suggestions, let me know!

The team is also weak to azu but not sure how to combat that

 

[Cloud_Nine987]

Bump

 

[awiec]

The standard Char Y team has the following components:
Char-Y=Obviously have that
Defogger/Complementary Dragon Type=Latias, I prefer latios myself but I digress
SR Setter=Landy
Big Hole Puncher=Keldeo
Anti-Flying Spam=T-tar
Lati@s Killer/Physical Threat= You don't really have

Yes T-tar can do the last role BUT it really shouldn't have to. I would suggest something like Bisharp as it puts a lot of pressure on most opponents and has a very strong priority in suckerpuch, it also deters defogging and sticky web shenanigans as the defiant boost is pretty nasty. You also said that greninja poses trouble for your team, why not use Thundy? It can give you momentum via Volt Switch and should be able to pick off greninja with ease. Though really Char Y should be able to take out greninja thanks to Drought, but just some food for thought. If you want detailed sets, I can dig some up for you.

 

[rob.]

Hey, I'm here with a few minor suggestions that should help. There isn't much to change since this is the standard build for Mega Charizard Y teams. It's obvious that Thundurus and Greninja give your team some trouble. A simple fix would be to give Clefable a mixed EV spread, 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SDef Calm nature enables Clefable to avoid being 2HKOed by Greninja's Hydro Pump and Thundurus's Thunderbolt. I really like the physical moveset on Mega Charizard Y, but I suggest using Roost over Fire Blast. Having Fire Blast and Flare Blitz is a bit redundant because they share the same coverage. Flare Blitz's recoil can be problematic but you won't have to worry much about Flare Blitz's recoil when you can replenish HP with Roost (Plus you have Healing Wish Latias). Knock off is a great utility move for many defensive mons but for an offensive team like this one U-turn would be better. The ability to pivot mon's in is great for offensive teams because it allows the team to keep pressuring the opponent. Hope I helped a bit, good luck with the team.

 

[trc]

I definitely agree with Rob's suggestion of the 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpD Calm spread on Clefable, as you go from simply losing to Greninja to having an excellent check which takes no hazard damage thanks to Magic Guard, making it also a consistent check. The actual Pokemon on your team are pretty solid, and don't have many issues together, which is good. There are some notable weaknesses to CM Clefable though, which means I'd probably replace Choice Scarf Tyranitar with Pursuit Bisharp with the moveset Knock Off / Sucker Punch / Pursuit / Iron Head. To compensate for your current lack of a Choice Scarf user, I'd replace defensive Landorus-T with Choice Scarf Landorus-T which helps a ton against boosting sweepers such as Mega Gyarados and Mega Tyranitar. Moveset is Earthquake / Stone Edge / Superpower / U-turn with the EV spread 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe Jolly, and then shift Stealth Rock onto Clefable, converting into the offensive SR set of which there is an analysis for, maintaining your Lati check but being more efficient on your team. If you want to keep Tyranitar, you can replace Clefable with SR Jirachi for opposing CM Clefable, providing SR, and still maintaining its role as a Lati check. Finally, I agree with Rob on Charizard's moveset. Good luck!

 

[Cloud_Nine987]

Thanks for the rates! I really appreciate it.

The standard Char Y team has the following components:
Char-Y=Obviously have that
Defogger/Complementary Dragon Type=Latias, I prefer latios myself but I digress
SR Setter=Landy
Big Hole Puncher=Keldeo
Anti-Flying Spam=T-tar
Lati@s Killer/Physical Threat= You don't really have

Yes T-tar can do the last role BUT it really shouldn't have to. I would suggest something like Bisharp as it puts a lot of pressure on most opponents and has a very strong priority in suckerpuch, it also deters defogging and sticky web shenanigans as the defiant boost is pretty nasty. You also said that greninja poses trouble for your team, why not use Thundy? It can give you momentum via Volt Switch and should be able to pick off greninja with ease. Though really Char Y should be able to take out greninja thanks to Drought, but just some food for thought. If you want detailed sets, I can dig some up for you.

I have tried out Hippowdon, Bisharp, and Thundurus all before on this team but they were eventually taken out. I could definitely try to bring Bisharp back, as like you said, he put a lot of offensive pressure on opponents. I'd also definitely use Thundurus, but I'm really not sure where to fit it on on my team.

Hey, I'm here with a few minor suggestions that should help. There isn't much to change since this is the standard build for Mega Charizard Y teams. It's obvious that Thundurus and Greninja give your team some trouble. A simple fix would be to give Clefable a mixed EV spread, 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SDef Calm nature enables Clefable to avoid being 2HKOed by Greninja's Hydro Pump and Thundurus's Thunderbolt. I really like the physical moveset on Mega Charizard Y, but I suggest using Roost over Fire Blast. Having Fire Blast and Flare Blitz is a bit redundant because they share the same coverage. Flare Blitz's recoil can be problematic but you won't have to worry much about Flare Blitz's recoil when you can replenish HP with Roost (Plus you have Healing Wish Latias). Knock off is a great utility move for many defensive mons but for an offensive team like this one U-turn would be better. The ability to pivot mon's in is great for offensive teams because it allows the team to keep pressuring the opponent. Hope I helped a bit, good luck with the team.

Thanks for the suggestion. I definitely need a full stop to Greninja and the old spread was definitely doing it, but investing in SpD is probably a better choice.

I definitely agree with Rob's suggestion of the 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpD Calm spread on Clefable, as you go from simply losing to Greninja to having an excellent check which takes no hazard damage thanks to Magic Guard, making it also a consistent check. The actual Pokemon on your team are pretty solid, and don't have many issues together, which is good. There are some notable weaknesses to CM Clefable though, which means I'd probably replace Choice Scarf Tyranitar with Pursuit Bisharp with the moveset Knock Off / Sucker Punch / Pursuit / Iron Head. To compensate for your current lack of a Choice Scarf user, I'd replace defensive Landorus-T with Choice Scarf Landorus-T which helps a ton against boosting sweepers such as Mega Gyarados and Mega Tyranitar. Moveset is Earthquake / Stone Edge / Superpower / U-turn with the EV spread 24 HP / 252 Atk / 232 Spe Jolly, and then shift Stealth Rock onto Clefable, converting into the offensive SR set of which there is an analysis for, maintaining your Lati check but being more efficient on your team. If you want to keep Tyranitar, you can replace Clefable with SR Jirachi for opposing CM Clefable, providing SR, and still maintaining its role as a Lati check. Finally, I agree with Rob on Charizard's moveset. Good luck!

Choice Scarf lando seems like an odd option to me, but now that I've tried it out, it seems effective. Whereas defensive lando was just kinda there to set rocks, it gets the intimidate and has pretty much unresisted coverage. I have also added Bisharp onto my team. The only thing I don't like about him is that people know not to switch in intimidate mon or set sticky web / sr while he's on the field, so most of the time his ability is kind of useless.

Thanks again for the rate guys. This team is looking a lot better.

 

[powersurge360]

What's up with the naive nature on char y? Char Y has awesome special bulk that you're undermining with a naive nature. I'd seriously consider going hasty to take it out of his 78/78 phys defenses instead of taking it out his relatively good 78/115 special defenses. Along with this, I echo the sentiment that you should stick roost on it over flare blitz. Roost greatly increases its longevity, especially if you start using it to switch into weak special attacking walls (scalds from quagsire & friends). With roost + hasty, you can also stay in on lati@s and roost to stall for life orb damage against draco meteor. You can also survive a t-bolt from them, however you'll take more damage than you recover from roost and cannot employ the same strategy. Finally roost is great for playing around bisharp and avoiding sucker punches. Bisharp can't get the OHKO with sucker punch and if you are careful not to show roost you can heal up and roast him on the next turn.

Beyond that, I'm a little confused what the team currently looks like with the other rates. Is there any way you can update?

 

[Cloud_Nine987]

Beyond that, I'm a little confused what the team currently looks like with the other rates. Is there any way you can update?

I have updated the team! And I also changed Zard's nature to hasty.

 

[awiec]

Thanks for the rates! I really appreciate it.



I have tried out Hippowdon, Bisharp, and Thundurus all before on this team but they were eventually taken out. I could definitely try to bring Bisharp back, as like you said, he put a lot of offensive pressure on opponents. I'd also definitely use Thundurus, but I'm really not sure where to fit it on on my team.

Well I use Thundy just cause I have Garchomp on my Char Y team to handle hazard duty, but I think SR clefable is very cool and would provide a neat surprise. Here is the bisharp set I use, granted my team is very offensively inclined where yours appears to be a little more balanced:
(Bisharp) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit
- Swords Dance

This is a pretty standard set but seeing as you have trouble with other fairys I would suggest replacing Swords Dance with Iron Head as Bisharp doesn't really need to set up to be effective especially if you can nab a defiant boost

 

[Cloud_Nine987]

Well I use Thundy just cause I have Garchomp on my Char Y team to handle hazard duty, but I think SR clefable is very cool and would provide a neat surprise. Here is the bisharp set I use, granted my team is very offensively inclined where yours appears to be a little more balanced:
(Bisharp) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit
- Swords Dance

This is a pretty standard set but seeing as you have trouble with other fairys I would suggest replacing Swords Dance with Iron Head as Bisharp doesn't really need to set up to be effective especially if you can nab a defiant boost

That's the Bisharp set that I use on the team except it's Adamant. I'll likely stick to that general set due to the fact that I already have it battle-ready. Thund did have great utility between priority Twave and HP Ice but I felt that I needed a defensive wall to fall back on so I just subbed him for clef.

 

[awiec]

That's the Bisharp set that I use on the team except it's Adamant. I'll likely stick to that general set due to the fact that I already have it battle-ready. Thund did have great utility between priority Twave and HP Ice but I felt that I needed a defensive wall to fall back on so I just subbed him for clef.

It's all about what you need for your team really, mine is very hyper offensive so Thundy works quite well, but having both Tundy and Lando on your team would not be as beneficial as having something else like Bisharp or Clefable. I use a bulky set for my SR setting Garchomp as I didn't think Lando would compliment my team as well but if you are happy with how your Lando functions in your team then I don't see a reason to change it unless you want to shift SR duties to Clefable.

 

[Cloud_Nine987]

It's all about what you need for your team really, mine is very hyper offensive so Thundy works quite well, but having both Tundy and Lando on your team would not be as beneficial as having something else like Bisharp or Clefable. I use a bulky set for my SR setting Garchomp as I didn't think Lando would compliment my team as well but if you are happy with how your Lando functions in your team then I don't see a reason to change it unless you want to shift SR duties to Clefable.

Yeah, having both Lando and Thund seemed a bit redundant. And CS Lando is very helpful because he can generally just U-turn away to gain momentum.

This team is pretty solid at the moment. I'm not sure if there's anything else that can possibly be changed so I will prepare to put it ingame.

 

[awiec]

Yeah, having both Lando and Thund seemed a bit redundant. And CS Lando is very helpful because he can generally just U-turn away to gain momentum.

This team is pretty solid at the moment. I'm not sure if there's anything else that can possibly be changed so I will prepare to put it ingame.

Well report back after you do some fighting, I'd be interested in how your improvements have worked out.

 

[Cloud_Nine987]

Well report back after you do some fighting, I'd be interested in how your improvements have worked out.

Well, I've tried battles, and it just isn't doing as good as the iteration I used with Azumarill in place of Keldeo. I thought this team was solid, but it just doesn't seem to be effective. I'm playing it just fine, so I can't really pinpoint a problem on it...

If I were to pick one, though, it's that I've been hampered with RNG screw-overs. Whether it's Fire Blast on zard missing, being frozen by Ice Beam in the sun since I'm now without Flare Blitz...

 

[powersurge360]

You actually can't be frozen in the sun, it's one of the effects of sun. I also just noticed that you have 252 atk evs on char, if you're just packing eq for heatran, seriously consider swapping that around. Also note that if you roost on a slower ice beam you'll resist it rather than be neutral to it.

Do you have any replays out of curiosity?

 

[Cloud_Nine987]

You actually can't be frozen in the sun, it's one of the effects of sun. I also just noticed that you have 252 atk evs on char, if you're just packing eq for heatran, seriously consider swapping that around. Also note that if you roost on a slower ice beam you'll resist it rather than be neutral to it.

Do you have any replays out of curiosity?

Not at the moment, no. I may swap those EVs around as well. I can probably get to a battle on the ladder and post the replay.

 

[awiec]

Not at the moment, no. I may swap those EVs around as well. I can probably get to a battle on the ladder and post the replay.

If you are worried about not having much physical attack you can take some EVs out of speed and put them into attack. Char Y really doesn't need all that speed (216 should be all you need) as it's fast enough when evolved, anything faster than it you need to handle with team mates.

 

[Cloud_Nine987]

If you are worried about not having much physical attack you can take some EVs out of speed and put them into attack. Char Y really doesn't need all that speed (216 should be all you need) as it's fast enough when evolved, anything faster than it you need to handle with team mates.

What's the 216 speed trying to outspeed? And I am also working on getting a replay now. The battle's in-progress.

EDIT: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-168849099

 

[awiec]

What's the 216 speed trying to outspeed? And I am also working on getting a replay now. The battle's in-progress.

EDIT: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-168849099

I can't recall off the top off my head but it puts it at nice speed tier, really I use 216 as I use the other free 36 IV points to be put into something else like HP as I run a more bulky special Zard Y, but because you are running mixed it might be beneficial to put it in attack. Which the question for you is what do you need all 252 speed IVs for?

 

[powersurge360]

Couple of things about the replay:

1. I don't know the best way to deal with chandelure if it got in safe tbh. That thing is a nuke and it weakening my pokemon on my char y team has cost me games. It's pretty uncommon though.
2. Alomomola was a great opportunity to switch in charizard and roost up. Charizard could've roosted on the scalds and been at enough hp to not be threatened by unboosted scizor as it resists bullet punch and, although it hurts, knock off won't kill.
3. Roosting up on alomomola would've allowed you to roost up on latias too which is the more likely switch in. Unless it had thunderbolt, you could win the match up just via life orb recoil. Even if it had thunderbolt it deals a top of about 60% meaning you can afford to make a mistake.
4. Shouldn't have kept landorus-t in on mamoswine or switched landorus-t in on mamoswine later in the match. Mamo is pretty bulky and you'll take a large amount of damage even from an ice shard wearing down a pivot that you need and has zero recovery.
5. Don't tell the opponent your coverage, heh. If nothing else you can bluff it.

Most of it really looked like it boiled down to not knowing your team just yet. I'd keep at it for a little while and learn the match ups and see if you need more changes after that.

 

[Cloud_Nine987]

I can't recall off the top off my head but it puts it at nice speed tier, really I use 216 as I use the other free 36 IV points to be put into something else like HP as I run a more bulky special Zard Y, but because you are running mixed it might be beneficial to put it in attack. Which the question for you is what do you need all 252 speed IVs for?

I could probably invest the 36 in Attack. As it stands, Zard can't get the OHKO on Heatran with just 4, so it increases the chance to a slim 18% after SR. Not that Heatran can really do anything in return (unless it's running Stone Edge).

Couple of things about the replay:

1. I don't know the best way to deal with chandelure if it got in safe tbh. That thing is a nuke and it weakening my pokemon on my char y team has cost me games. It's pretty uncommon though.
2. Alomomola was a great opportunity to switch in charizard and roost up. Charizard could've roosted on the scalds and been at enough hp to not be threatened by unboosted scizor as it resists bullet punch and, although it hurts, knock off won't kill.
3. Roosting up on alomomola would've allowed you to roost up on latias too which is the more likely switch in. Unless it had thunderbolt, you could win the match up just via life orb recoil. Even if it had thunderbolt it deals a top of about 60% meaning you can afford to make a mistake.
4. Shouldn't have kept landorus-t in on mamoswine or switched landorus-t in on mamoswine later in the match. Mamo is pretty bulky and you'll take a large amount of damage even from an ice shard wearing down a pivot that you need and has zero recovery.
5. Don't tell the opponent your coverage, heh. If nothing else you can bluff it.

Most of it really looked like it boiled down to not knowing your team just yet. I'd keep at it for a little while and learn the match ups and see if you need more changes after that.

Yeah, I will probably do a couple more matches and see how the team fares.

@aweic powersurge360 Thanks for your help, by the way. It is greatly appreciated.

 

[awiec]

I could probably invest the 36 in Attack. As it stands, Zard can't get the OHKO on Heatran with just 4, so it increases the chance to a slim 18% after SR. Not that Heatran can really do anything in return (unless it's running Stone Edge).



Yeah, I will probably do a couple more matches and see how the team fares.

@aweic powersurge360 Thanks for your help, by the way. It is greatly appreciated.

You could always find somewhere else to put them. As it stands all the speed in the world is not going to protect you from chandelure which hits hard and can use your sun against you. Also you benefited that your opponent was sloppy at points and got too greedy with boosts with their scizor. Really all you can do is play the ladder and figure out what holes that can be patched.

 

[Cloud_Nine987]

You could always find somewhere else to put them. As it stands all the speed in the world is not going to protect you from chandelure which hits hard and can use your sun against you. Also you benefited that your opponent was sloppy at points and got too greedy with boosts with their scizor. Really all you can do is play the ladder and figure out what holes that can be patched.

Okay. I will report back when I've done 20 or so battles, maybe. I also updated the importable in case anyone would like to try it out.