XY Doubles The Invicible Team (peaked 1639)

[Moudou]

Hello Smogon! Here's another Doubles RMT (yeah I know, there's been a lot). But in the past, I have been looking for synergies, as I am sure many of you have, between the mons composing the team. Well, now, you can forget all these synergies. It's all about taking the best mons available in the Tier and putting them together. Pretty much any mon in this team is supposed to be able to take down an entire team on it's own, or so. So the discussion runs on "What are the best mons in the Tier?". Well let's take a look:

Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Double-Edge
- Low Kick
- Ice Punch


Kangaskhan almost had to be part of the team: twice suspect-tested already an incredible bulk and even better offense. However, I didn't want it to be too classic either, you know, to bring a little teambuilding challenge (and to ask for advice on RMT of course!). So Protect took the Fake Out spot, as the latter is really quite predictable and Protect is one of the most important moves in Doubles. Low Kick can take down most of the usual targets for Power-Up Punch, except it deals more damage at once. Double Edge deals a lot more damage than Frustration, so I decided to stay on track and go for big damage as fast as possible. The last spot, however, was a little more tricky: Sucker Punch usually made the cut there, as it was a priority move to take down faster threats and to deal with Ghost-Type mons. However, with Protect, we usually can avoid the quick threats (Protect on Kangaskhan sometimes surprises the opponent too, so even if that doesn't happen often, it's still worth the trick), and honestly, apart from Gengar and Aegislash, there aren't that many Ghost threats. Deoxys-A with Extreme Speed being immune to Sucker Punch, I thought it was more clever to play Ice Punch, and take by surprise mons such as Garchomp. And he can still hit Ghosts, so what the hell! The EV spread is really classic, I chose Adamant over Jolly because of Protect, we don't really need so badly to out-speed opposing Kans or Char-Y.

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Superpower
- U-turn

Scarf-Landorus-T. As George Clooney would say: "What else?" Immense power, great defensive typing, awesome coverage, Intimidate support, probably the quickest mon you can reasonnably expect to encouter... As a reference in the format, he had to be on the team. The set is really classic, EQ is the main STAB move that tears teams apart, Rock Slide deals with Flying-typed mons that would avoid EQ. U-Turn is played for either Cresselia or a bad switch in. Keeping Lando-T alive for later on is seldom a bad idea.

Bisharp @ Focus Sash
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Protect
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Knock Off

Bisharp is awesome, and yet he probably is the least of the mons on the team. This buddy can bring down an entire Trick Room team on its own (and he already did). Plus raw power you know. The EV spread is classic to battle under TR and yet deal as much damage as possible, the move set is the standard one... No surprises here either! The only thing worth discussing is the choice of Focus Sash over Life Orb, but as Bisharp is very slow, I like to be able to take down Terrakion after Close Combat and quicker Fairy-Typed mons.

Talonflame @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 84 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 168 SpA
Naughty Nature
- Brave Bird
- Taunt
- Tailwind
- Overheat

Talonflame is a threat renowned all accross the Tier, as Gale Wing BB with such an immense Atk is devastating amongst anything not resisting it. However, this set isn't mine. It was Antgeezy 's, in his "Realest Team". Mixed attacker TF is one of the best sets I've seen of the bird, so heads up and thanks so much for sharing it with us, I sincerely hope you don't mind me using it :3 The point is to have priority STAB BB, Taunt to break through support and TR (although that's not really necessary on the team, we'll check that out later) and Tailwind... Just in case you want Kangaskhan to sweep. Overheat (or Fire Blast, but I clearly like Overheat better as we very often go for BB as STAB move) brings Fire STAB and a lot of power, but as Antgeezy said it himself: "It also allows me to hit things like Ferrothorn and not take extreme recoil damage because of Iron Barbs and stuff because lets be honest, after LO recoil and BB/Flare Blitz recoil, that's like 50% of Talonflame's health right there." The most unstable point on the set is Taunt, but I really like to have that move somewhere on the team. Roost and Protect are on the line to take the slot however.

Rotom-Wash @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 92 SpA / 124 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunderbolt
- Protect

Perhaps the most common support-mon in Doubles. The EV spread isn't mine, it's the one KyleCole presented on his video analysis of Rotom-W. It survives a Kangaskhan's Double Edge and then burns it on the same turn, it deals with opposing TF, it resists a Char-Y Solar Beam and then deals respectable TBolt damage... It provides the perfect balance between a bulk requiring a lot of attention from the opponent, and yet enough power to be a threat that still has to be dealt with as soon as possible.

Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Protect
- Rage Powder
- Spore
- Giga Drain

Once again, this isn't my set but KyleCole's. This is possibly the best support mon in the game: it spams Spores (under TR, that's awesome!), Rage Powder+Regenerator enables our sweepers to do their job unpunished, and Giga Drain deals reasonably well with Rotom-W. I've chosen Black Sludge over Sitrus Berry as I've noticed that he tends to stay so long on the field that in the end, the Sludge is usually worth more HP than the berry. Now, as awesome as this guy can be, he has his downfalls, and especially a huge TF weakness (OHKO pretty much anytime...), but all in all he does good service!​

OK, so I'm sincerely sorry to steal half of this team from other awesome people of this community. I really am. But I've ran a lot of tests, and if they make the cut in the team, then it's the best version I could find. I'm also sorry that we end up with a pretty brainless team, even though Amoongus usually does require a little thinking, but that was the point: I wanted to build a team with nothing but the best individual mons in Doubles, not worrying about synergies, and seeing how that went. So far so good: over twenty games, one defeat. Brainless works guys... After all, what's the point of building a "Goodstuff Team" if you don't put in the best stuff?


So now a quick tour of the match-ups:
TR:
This is cake. An opening Bisharp+Amoogus does the trick. And if Bisharp gets beaten down before he can finish the sixth mon (that happens, it's a bummer), Talonflame's Taunt and priority BB can also take the TR team down single-handedly. eZ.

Rain:
This can be a little tougher, but nothing to worry about. Rotom-W usually does an incredible job on the team, as TBolt takes down several mons in the team, and Hydo Pump is boosted under the Rain in case TBolt isn't enough. Kan is pretty good as a turn 1 Protect over Ludicolo's Fake Out is a wide-open window to deal damage to it with the other mon. Amoogus behaves pretty well to, and TF 2HKO M-Venusaur (watch out though, he will take a water move between those two hits, so be sure to pack Amoogus along or Kan close enough to finish M-Venu quickly). Not a bad MU either.

Perish Trap:
That's where it gets tricky. Getting rid of Gengar is the key to success, as if it happens, we can wreak havoc on the opposing team to quickly for the opponent to set another trap. However, a good player can ensure that Bisharp doesn't get the chance to strike Gengar for Three turns in a row (Follow Me ->Protect -> Substitute, bang you're good to go). Many mons on our team can take Gengar away, as it is very frail, but we'll most likely have to sacrifice to mons in the process and bring Bisharp and/or TF on the next turn. But then as alays when dealing with Perish Trap, it all depends on the opponent's skill, and not much on ours.

Goodstuff Team:
Well, in a way, this team was made to beat those teams down. To each threat our opponent proposes, we can oppose one that's at least as efficient. So there isn't much to say there, each Goodstuff team is unique, and it would be a bad idea to describe each one of them one by one.


And finally, the other options for the team, the other best Pokémons, the Honorable Mentions:

Char-Y is arguably the most powerful Fire-Type mon in the Tier. And even though he packs a lot of power, since we have to choose between him and Kan, the latter doesn't pack such a bad offensive potential either but the bulk is incomparable. Plus, even though every-one has to take both Kan and CharY into account when building a team, Char-Y is very easily set aside.

Aegislash! I still can't believe he didn't make the cut. I think it should be on the team, but I felt the need to have two support mons, and he isn't quite as effective as a sweeper as the four we already have. But damn it, I miss him so much...

Mega-Gardevoir also is one of the best special sweepers in the game. Great offensive coverage, truely. But a stupid vulnerability to Bullet Punch was enough to cut her out. Such a shame, Fairy-STAB was so promising...

Togekiss is the second best Follow Me support after Amoogus. Air Slash + Serene grace over Spore? I chose the latter, as Slash is a ridicule offensive move, a lot of the time, and not as reliable as Spore. With Regenerator, Amoongus is just as bulky as Roosting Togekiss. So the choice was made.

Mega-Scizor (or LO Scizor) could have taken Bisharp's place, as a priority sweeper. However, Bisharp does provide Steel-STAB and priority Dark STAB is somehow better than Bullet Punch. And he has a better coverage. So that's the cut.​

That's the team as it is now. I will happily take any advice on how to improve it. In the meantime, I'll just keep on laddering as I clearly am not good enough to take part in advanced discussions... Have fun!

 

[shaian]

Hey cool team, not much to suggest other than you really should consider just running the standard Adamant 252 atk / 252 spe on Bisharp, as even with min speed, it outruns very few notable threats in Trick Room (you get like Cresselia and Chandelure but Sucker Handles them just fine).

 

[wllmagic]

Really sweet team; best rmt I've seen in a while :>
Quick rate, as on mobile and the team is nice anyway.

You may want to consider a spread of 128 Def, 24 SpD and 108 Spe on Kangaskhan. The Defensive EVs will allow you to tank a Terrakion CC after the Intimidate drop from Landorus, while Speed let's you outrun Brelooms and other max base 70s. Shift the Special Def into HP or Speed if you'd like to speed creep.

Smallish, but Adamant on Landog is what I prefer. Not like you terribly need to outspeed other Landoruses, with Ice Punch Kang, Bisharp and Rotom-W. The power always makes up for it imo.

Agreed with Shaian about the Bisharp; outspeeding Sylveon or Rotom can be crucial at times. Bisharp is just frail af, and with Sucker Punch, there's no need to try to make it TR competent. Plus, it can abuse TW on Talonflame better.

Lastly, Taunt has an option of being replaced by Protect on Talonflame in more serious battles. Tours don't suck as much as the ladder ;3 Of course, both moves are fine still.

That's it from me really, good team Moudou!

 

[Moudou]

Hey cool team, not much to suggest other than you really should consider just running the standard Adamant 252 atk / 252 spe on Bisharp, as even with min speed, it outruns very few notable threats in Trick Room (you get like Cresselia and Chandelure but Sucker Handles them just fine).

I guess you're right, thanks!

Really sweet team; best rmt I've seen in a while :>
Quick rate, as on mobile and the team is nice anyway.

You may want to consider a spread of 128 Def, 24 SpD and 108 Spe on Kangaskhan. The Defensive EVs will allow you to tank a Terrakion CC after the Intimidate drop from Landorus, while Speed let's you outrun Brelooms and other max base 70s. Shift the Special Def into HP or Speed if you'd like to speed creep.

Smallish, but Adamant on Landog is what I prefer. Not like you terribly need to outspeed other Landoruses, with Ice Punch Kang, Bisharp and Rotom-W. The power always makes up for it imo.

Agreed with Shaian about the Bisharp; outspeeding Sylveon or Rotom can be crucial at times. Bisharp is just frail af, and with Sucker Punch, there's no need to try to make it TR competent. Plus, it can abuse TW on Talonflame better.

Lastly, Taunt has an option of being replaced by Protect on Talonflame in more serious battles. Tours don't suck as much as the ladder ;3 Of course, both moves are fine still.

That's it from me really, good team Moudou!

Thanks a lot for that EV spread for Kangaskhan, I wasn't sure on which one to chose, and I have trouble creating my own EV spreads (how do you do that, really? Apart from Speed I mean...). Although I do see one flaw in it, you say I outspeed Breloom, but considering Breloom will use Mach Punch, is it a good reference to have?

Apart from that, what you say is very true, so I'll change the Bisharp and Lando spreads. As for TF, I'm not sure if Roost wouldn't be better than Protect, what do you think of it?

 

[wllmagic]

Personally, I'd only use Roost on WoW Talonflame; With the attack drop, it actually can tank enough hits to pull off a few Roosts, while other TFs simply don't have enough bulk to. Either that, or you could go even bulkier with Tflame. But I'm a sucker for Protect anyway.

 

[Cyonarix]

Hey there, I think I battled you on PS earlier while you were using this team! It's really solid overall, was an interesting battle. Didn't save a replay sadly :(

It seemed like the team had a problem with sleep-spamming, which I was doing with my own Amoonguss quite successfully (sorry about that). If you don't mind losing some bulk on Rotom-W, I'd suggest giving him a Safety Goggles instead of the Sitrus Berry to help counter this tactic. This paired with your Amoonguss would make sleep spamming the team a lot more difficult, as you have two safe switch-ins to deter/block the opponent from doing so. I pick Rotom in particular as it really seems like the only one that can afford to have it's item changed.

Unfortunately you could still have some trouble since you'd most likely be up against Venusaur or Amoonguss, which are both hard for Rotom-W to deal with by itself. As long as you had Kanga or Talonflame to help take them down you'd be in a great position against teams trying to utilise this tactic!

 

[Moudou]

I get your point, but is Rotom a good choice though? He can't do much of anything to counter Amoongus either, you know, so what does it matter if he can't go to sleep, Amoongus will beat him up anyways! I know what I just said was far from realistic, but my point is that if opposing Amoongus isn't dealt with, Rotom-W doesn't pack the power nor the bulk to deal with an entire team on it's own. So I understand why Rotom-W would be a natural choice to carry the goggles, but is it the best? (Bisharp? Sub Aegislash maybe?)

 

[Cyonarix]

A Sub set on Bisharp might do a better job than Rotom-W, and it also doesn't change your team too drastically. Has a guaranteed 3HKO (2HKO w/ Life Orb) on fully invested Amoonguss, which is definitely more than Rotom-W could do. It'd mean that you'd need to switch the Sash for something else (Orb or Leftovers perhaps) and lose one moveslot for Substitute, may or may not be beneficial depending on what you want really. You could also just stick the goggles on it with its current set, which would be fine but it would have its longevity reduced without the Sash. It's the simplest change to make, could work out well as long as it doesn't get into a situation where it needs the Sash.

As you suggest, I imagine sub Aegislash would probably work great, but I'm not sure where you can fit it onto your team. Would probably need to take Bisharp's place, but it wouldn't really be as effective at taking on TR teams AFAIK. Could be worth a try, Aegislash can also give Wide Guard support which is always handy.

Overall it depends on how much of a threat you see sleep spammers as. Talonflame can easily take down all of them save for defense invested mega Venusaur, which would survive one hit. Maybe that is enough not to need to change anything, but if you lose Talonflame it starts to become more of a risk.

 

[Spits]

If you want to deal with Sleep spam, than try out Safety Goggles on Talonflame.

 

[Moudou]

A Sub set on Bisharp might do a better job than Rotom-W, and it also doesn't change your team too drastically. Has a guaranteed 3HKO (2HKO w/ Life Orb) on fully invested Amoonguss, which is definitely more than Rotom-W could do. It'd mean that you'd need to switch the Sash for something else (Orb or Leftovers perhaps) and lose one moveslot for Substitute, may or may not be beneficial depending on what you want really. You could also just stick the goggles on it with its current set, which would be fine but it would have its longevity reduced without the Sash. It's the simplest change to make, could work out well as long as it doesn't get into a situation where it needs the Sash.

As you suggest, I imagine sub Aegislash would probably work great, but I'm not sure where you can fit it onto your team. Would probably need to take Bisharp's place, but it wouldn't really be as effective at taking on TR teams AFAIK. Could be worth a try, Aegislash can also give Wide Guard support which is always handy.

Overall it depends on how much of a threat you see sleep spammers as. Talonflame can easily take down all of them save for defense invested mega Venusaur, which would survive one hit. Maybe that is enough not to need to change anything, but if you lose Talonflame it starts to become more of a risk.

Yeah, I had TF in mind all along, but the point isn't to being TF-dependant when playing against a good player... I thought of safety goggles Bisharp but it doesn't really make sense IMO, but I've never tried SubBisharp. It doesn't really strike me as a natural set, as Bisharp is really slow and not that bulky either, the chances of him not being able to set up his sub are not that thin. And I'd really go for Leftovers here rather than LO. Aegislash does seem to be a good compromise, and it would give us a special sweeper. Wide guard isn't that necessary in the team, there isn't any specific weakness to EQ, RS or HW that can't be handled already.

If you want to deal with Sleep spam, than try out Safety Goggles on Talonflame.

Yeah, I've seen KyleCole's video too ;-) I'm just not that convinced by his reasoning though (with all due respect of course), if you're able to predict at least a little the next Spore target you can easily play around that and switch in as you wish. And I like LO TF, as it deals damage needed to take Venusaur down...