Grumpig (QC 0/3)

[Leafshield]

Overview
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• Fits on stall as a dedicated answer to fire spam.
• Not overly useful for anything other than said Fire-Types
• Typing allows it to do its job so well because Fire-Types can't hit it hard with their coverage.
• Not really good for taking even resisted physical hits.
• No recovery outside of Lefites/Rest

Thick Fat
########
name: Thick Fat
move 1: Whirlwind
move 2: Heal Bell
move 3: Toxic / Thunder Wave
move 4: Psyshock
ability: Thick Fat
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
nature: Calm

Moves
========

• Whirlwind allows Grumpig to force out Fire types and other things that can't touch you and rack up hazard damage.
• Heal Bell is useful for removing status for Grumpig or its teammates.
• Toxic is for useful residual damage against opposing bulky teams and offense alike.
• Thunder Wave can be used instead to slow down the (usually) fast Fire types that you wall.
• Psyshock is important for hitting Cryogonal and various pokes weak to it like Dragalge and Vileplume. Hitting Cryogonal hard is espcially important.
• Psychic, alternatively, has higher base power and hits certain pokemon harder i.e. Weezing, but is generally inferior to Psyshock.
• RestTalk with Psyshock and Whirlwind is a possibility to give Grumpig status immunity and recovery, while avoiding being setup bait when asleep due to Whirlwind.

Set Details
========

• EVs are fairly standard for a Specially Defensive mon.
• Max SpDef allows you to stomach attacks from strong Fire types with relative ease.
• Thick Fat is one of the only reasons to use Grumpig. Its other abilities, Own Tempo and Gluttony, are either niche or completely useless on this set.
• Thick Fat allows you to act as a cold stop to Pyroar, non-Signal Beam Mesprit, Cryogonal, Jynx, and Ninetales.
• Audino makes a great partner due to its ability to pass large Wishes to Grumpig.

Usage Tips
========

• Grumpig is best brought in on special attackers, specifically Fire types, who are effectively walled by Grumpig's special bulk and access to Thick Fat.
• Also does well when in against boosting special sweepers, due to being able to force them out with Whirlwind/cripple them with status
• Grumpig is best used when you find yourself with a weakness to strong Fire/Ice types while also needing answers to threats like SubCM Uxie, non-Signal Beam Mesprit, CM/NP Ninetales, etc.
• You'll need an extra answer to SubCM Uxie since Grumpig won't be able to beat her in a last-mon scenario.
• Be sure to time your Heal Bells correctly as to not lose momentum
• Grumpig, by virtue of being a utility mon, can be used in all parts of the match, whenever you find yourself needing a switch-in to the likes of Typhlosion and Lilligant.
• Set aims to take advantage of the unusual traits (Whirlwind and Thick Fat) that give Grumpig a reason to be used over other Psychics.

Team Options
========

• A defensive Fairy is a great partner for Grumpig, since they can switch in easily on Bug and Dark type attacks. Slurpuff in particular supplies Wish and Aromatherapy support as well.
• Something in general to take on physical attackers is imperative due to Grumpig's poor physical defense.
• Grass types in general like having Grumpig around to take on Fire Types. Vileplume and Roselia in particular appreciate Grumpig's natural Psychic resistance, as well.
• Fighting types are extremely helpful for Grumpig, who eat up the aforementioned Bug and Dark attacks while beating Steel types who are resistant to Pig's Psychic STAB (and, if running Toxic, would be immune.)
• Gurdurr works well as a Fighting-Type partner due to its higher physical bulk than Hariyama, who's Thick Fat is unneeded when Grumpig can check Fire spam.
• Grumpig can at times have issues with special attackers who carry strong neutral attacks, specifically Water types. For this reason, Ferroseed is a useful partner as it switches into strong Water moves, can set up Rocks and Spikes as well as spread status with Thunder Wave.
• This set in general loves Spikes; they allow Grumpig to rack up damage with Whirlwind and help whittle down mons without the use of Toxic.
• Audino gets a special mention here due to its Ghost immunity and ability to pass huge wishes to Grumpig.

Other Options
########

• Taunt is pretty much just for Ferroseed, whom shut down completely aside from a weak Gyro Ball.
• The same goes for Magic Coat, which has the added bonus of preventing Taunt.
• Hidden Power Fire can also check Seed, but isn't entirely useful otherwise as it does poor damage to most Steel types.
• Grumpig has pretty good coverage options in Focus Blast, Signal Beam, and Psyshock, as well as a decent speed stat and adequate power, making an offensive set a possibility. However, Grumpig isn't too strong without max investment and still needs investment in Special Defense to do its primary purpose effectively.

Checks & Counters
########

• **Dark Types**: Grumpig has a lot of trouble with Dark types, especially Pawniard. Pokemon with Knock Off as coverage also have an easy time muscling through Grumpig.
• **Ghosts**: Despite being a special wall, Grumpig has trouble taking on strong Ghost Types, much as Mismagius.
• **Physical Attackers**: Grumpig's physical defense is lacking so even resisted hits are going to do a lot regardless. Its lack of resistances to many physical attacking types doesn't help it much, either.
• **Hazards**: Lack of recovery and being susceptible to all forms of hazards makes Grumpig easy to wear down.

 

[Leafshield]

At this point I think this is ready for a check.

 

[boltsandbombers]

You should change the title to include (QC 0/3)

 

[Leafshield]

You should change the title to include (QC 0/3)

Noted, thanks :)

 

[Martin]

IMO call the set Miss Piggy

Utility Pig
########
name: Utility Pig
move 1: Thunder Wave / Toxic / Sunny Day
move 2: Heal Bell / Taunt
move 3: Psychic / Psyshock
move 4: Whirlwind
ability: Thick Fat
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 8 Def / 248 SpDef (0 IVs I guess lowers foul play damage if you find it overly necessary)
nature: Calm

idk why you've done 8 def and 248 SpD (btw u got the formatting for spec def wrong just copy the one I used), but don't u mean either 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD or 248 HP / 8 Def / 248 SpD? the current EV spread seems a bit arbitury and, unlike taking 4 out of HP to give an odd number for SR damage, I see no reason why you should have 8 in defense unless it lets you take a hit that you wouldn't otherwise. I'd say run 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD as, unlike some pokemon, it doesn't need an odd HP number. Also just remove the bit in brackets its completely purposeless.

 

[Martin]

Sorry to double post, but it says to do this instead of editing in the reservation thread so idk.

Moves
========

• Set aims to take advantage of the unusual traits (Whirlwind and Thick Fat) that give Grumpig a reason to be used over other Psychics.
• Whirlwind is the all-star of the set; allows you to beat special boosters that other Psychics might have trouble with (opposing SubCM Uxie, Sub Pyroar, HP Fire Lilligant, etc)
• Whirlwind can also phase Soundproof mons for what it's worth, notably Mr. Mime.
• Thick Fat means it pretty much crushes Jynx, BoltBeam Mespy, Typhlosion, Pyoar, Cryo and others
• Thunder Wave is a solid option to cripple fast threats that might give balanced teams trouble
• Toxic is an option if you don't have trouble with quicker threats.
• Heal Bell is imperative to combat clerics carrying status to beat Grump
• Taunt is an option to halt boosters immediately instead of taking a turn to phase
• Psychic hits standard Vileplume and Weezing harder, but Psyshock does more damage to Dragalge and CM/QD users; whatever your team needs to hurt most is what you should go with.
• Sunny Day is a very niche option over your status of choice. If used on a Sun team, Thick Fat allows Grumpig to pivot in on common sun sweeper's weaknesses (Ice, Fire, Psychic) and proceed to spread status or set up sun again

Parts of this seem to belong in other parts of the analysis. I'll just quote things and tell you where to move them.

• Set aims to take advantage of the unusual traits (Whirlwind and Thick Fat) that give Grumpig a reason to be used over other Psychics.

Usage Tips

• Sunny Day is a very niche option over your status of choice. If used on a Sun team, Thick Fat allows Grumpig to pivot in on common sun sweeper's weaknesses (Ice, Fire, Psychic) and proceed to spread status or set up sun again

Other Options

• Thick Fat means it pretty much crushes Jynx, BoltBeam Mespy, Typhlosion, Pyoar, Cryo and others

Set Details



and now for an issue i spotted in there that wasn't ill-paced bullet points:

• Heal Bell is imperative to combat clerics carrying status to beat Grump

What does this mean? It should say "Heal Bell is there to clear status" and no more than that. Also mention in usage tips to time your Heal Bells so as to not kill momentum.[/quote][/quote]

 

[Leafshield]

Thanks for pointing those out. Fixed.

 

[Leafshield]

Not sure if I'm supposed to bump, but bump anyway.

 

[tehy]

whose metal*


Oh yeah, constructive stuff. Why do you have taunt? You state it's to stop boosting sweepers instead of whirlwinding them, but you're probably slower and whirlwind does fine at that anyhow. You're not much of a stallbreaker, even with Toxic, (though you are fast enough to taunt pretty much all stallmons and have heal bell to heal status), considering you have one attack and no recovery outside of leftovers. It's kind of helpful for lastmon sweepers, specifically Sub setup mons, but you could also just run Psych Up and completely short-circuit those setup attempts instead. (Psychic and Psyshock won't break SubCM uxie's sub in 3 hits and it's probably faster, so not much fun there; with Mesprit you might manage it depending on if it lacks bulk and if you packed Psychic instead of Psyshock.)

I guess it's okay to stop you from being hazards bait, but i'd honestly prefer another attack. HP Fire stops ferro, energy ball stops most of the rocks and seismitoad. The poison spikers are smashed by your Psychic stab anyhow.

Overall the benefits of taunt are pretty weak, mostly it just combines some positive traits that other moves do way better but doesn't do any of them well enough.

 

[Leafshield]

whose metal*


Oh yeah, constructive stuff. Why do you have taunt? You state it's to stop boosting sweepers instead of whirlwinding them, but you're probably slower and whirlwind does fine at that anyhow. You're not much of a stallbreaker, even with Toxic, (though you are fast enough to taunt pretty much all stallmons and have heal bell to heal status), considering you have one attack and no recovery outside of leftovers. It's kind of helpful for lastmon sweepers, specifically Sub setup mons, but you could also just run Psych Up and completely short-circuit those setup attempts instead. (Psychic and Psyshock won't break SubCM uxie's sub in 3 hits and it's probably faster, so not much fun there; with Mesprit you might manage it depending on if it lacks bulk and if you packed Psychic instead of Psyshock.)

I guess it's okay to stop you from being hazards bait, but i'd honestly prefer another attack. HP Fire stops ferro, energy ball stops most of the rocks and seismitoad. The poison spikers are smashed by your Psychic stab anyhow.

Overall the benefits of taunt are pretty weak, mostly it just combines some positive traits that other moves do way better but doesn't do any of them well enough.

Damn that signature call out :c

I definitely see your point, yeah. Taunt is only really good for last mon setup sweepers but, as you said, it doesn't really help you "beat" them since you're gonna need to bust Uxie's subs with your resisted STAB and then try to whittle them, which is gonna be bad if you let it get a bunch of CM boosts under its belt, just like with SubCM Mespy and to a lesser extent Ninetales. I'm not sure if I'm gonna add Psych Up to the set itself since it in itself seems sort of niche and I feel like there might be better things to do on the set like add an attack. I'm definitely gonna add Psych Up to OO though.

You mentioned a second attack on the set; what move do you think Grump could afford to lose to put the move behind it? I know Hidden Power Fire and Energy Ball are strong candidates since they break Ferroseed and Toad/Rhydon which is helpful for defensive teams obviously, but I was wondering which move to take out in that situation. I was thinking Heal Bell would be the best choice since it's entirely possible that defensive teams would like to carry other clerics like Togetic, Granbull, Lanturn, Audino, etc. Thoughts on that?

Thanks a lot for the input especially on the sig :)

 

[tehy]

Damn that signature call out :c

I definitely see your point, yeah. Taunt is only really good for last mon setup sweepers but, as you said, it doesn't really help you "beat" them since you're gonna need to bust Uxie's subs with your resisted STAB and then try to whittle them, which is gonna be bad if you let it get a bunch of CM boosts under its belt, just like with SubCM Mespy and to a lesser extent Ninetales. I'm not sure if I'm gonna add Psych Up to the set itself since it in itself seems sort of niche and I feel like there might be better things to do on the set like add an attack. I'm definitely gonna add Psych Up to OO though.

You mentioned a second attack on the set; what move do you think Grump could afford to lose to put the move behind it? I know Hidden Power Fire and Energy Ball are strong candidates since they break Ferroseed and Toad/Rhydon which is helpful for defensive teams obviously, but I was wondering which move to take out in that situation. I was thinking Heal Bell would be the best choice since it's entirely possible that defensive teams would like to carry other clerics like Togetic, Granbull, Lanturn, Audino, etc. Thoughts on that?

Thanks a lot for the input especially on the sig :)

Well specifically, if you're using Taunt, then you probably want to block those mons from setting hazards, and either of those moves are doing the same thing. So, it makes sense to slash them instead of taunt;either one or possibly both, though QC should decide on that.

 

[Leafshield]

Well specifically, if you're using Taunt, then you probably want to block those mons from setting hazards, and either of those moves are doing the same thing. So, it makes sense to slash them instead of taunt;either one or possibly both, though QC should decide on that.

Ah, okay. I feel like I'm just gonna remove the taunt slash and wait on the QC to see if they think the coverage moves warranted any more than OO.

 

[ryan]

Leafshield

The Overview is filled with irrelevant information. We need to trim this. Cut the first point because you use Grumpig as a Fire-type check and not as a bulky Psychic-type, which means it doesn't really compete with other Psychic-types at all. Cut the second point for the same reason. Third point is irrelevant because it's a specially defensive Pokemon, which means you're not taking physical hits pretty much ever. I don't think I would ever use Grumpig anywhere but on stall, where it gets Wish support and the fact that it loses tons of momentum doesn't hurt you much, so cut the balanced team part. You'll talk about Whirlwind in the analysis. It's not a huge part of Grumpig, so it doesn't need to be in the Overview. Grumpig is awful on Spikes-stacking teams barring stall, so just say it's good on stall for the reasons I mentioned earlier (Wish support, frees up the Heal Bell slot on teammates, doesn't matter that it kills momentum). Sunny Day Grumpig sounds fucking terrible, and it's not in the analysis, so cut that. Weakness to Ghost- and Dark-type moves doesn't matter because you don't try to take them on with Grumpig, and you use something else to beat Fighting-types. Emphasize that Grumpig is a dedicated Fire-type answer, and you shouldn't be using it for any other reason. You can also mention that Grumpig does especially well as a Fire-type check because its typing prevents it from being hit hard by common coverage that Fire-types carry.

Set should be named Thick Fat, unslash Psychic with Psyshock, and the set order should be Whirlwind > Heal Bell > Toxic / Thunder Wave > Psyshock. Mention Psychic in Moves still, but hitting Cryogonal is too good, especially when you wall it.

Cut the part about Whirlwinding Mr. Mime. No one using Soundproof anything or Mr. Mime, and the few people who do use Mr. Mime use a better ability. Don't mention Sub Pyroar either because it's really rare. Mention RestTalk with Whirlwind and Psyshock in moves. It's Grumpig's only recovery, and it isn't setup fodder while it's asleep because of Whirlwind.

No one uses BoltBeam Mesprit. Just say that you wall non-Signal Beam Mesprit. Taunt should be OO, and you should pretty much always run Heal Bell on Grumpig unless you're using RestTalk.

SubCM Mesprit doesn't exist. Just say Mesprit. Also mention that you'll want to carry something else that can beat SubCM Uxie because otherwise you lose to it in lastmon scenarios.

Stop talking about Sunny Day. It's no where on the analysis. When you talk about defensive Fairy-types, talk about Slurpuff instead of Granbull because it offers Wish support and has Aromatherapy as well. When you talk about Fighting-type partners, mention Gurdurr specifically because it has better physical bulk than Hariyama and Thick Fat is unnecessary. Cut Probopass as a partner. Mention Ferroseed over Seismitoad as a Water-type check. Every special Water-type in NU carries Grass-type coverage, barring Swanna, which is uncommon. Cut Lickilicky's mention (Audino is much better), as well as the two points above it.

Specifically state that Taunt and Magic Coat are both pretty much just for Ferroseed, with the added bonus that Magic Coat deflects Taunt. Cut everything else but HP Fire. Talk about an offensive set. Grumpig has base 80 Speed, which is pretty great, and it has good coverage (Psyshock, Signal Beam, Focus Blast), but it's pretty weak and needs the SpDef investment to take on Fire-types. So OO should just be Taunt, Magic Coat, HP Fire, and an offensive set.

Checks and Counters should include physical attacks in general. Like neutral nature LO Earthquake from Magmortar 3HKOs this thing. Make it the last point. Also cut the Bug-type part. It's so obvious, and your examples are poor anyways because Vivillon doesn't run Bug Buzz, Scyther only runs Bug-type moves on Band and Scarf and SD is by far the most common set, and SD Samurott is rare. Like the only other Bug-type in NU is Accelgor. Liepard never runs Taunt either. Not much does barring like lead Archeops and Qwilfish. So Checks and Counters should be like Dark-types / Ghost-types / Physical Attacks / Hazards.

 

[Leafshield]

Leafshield

The Overview is filled with irrelevant information. We need to trim this. Cut the first point because you use Grumpig as a Fire-type check and not as a bulky Psychic-type, which means it doesn't really compete with other Psychic-types at all. Cut the second point for the same reason. Third point is irrelevant because it's a specially defensive Pokemon, which means you're not taking physical hits pretty much ever. I don't think I would ever use Grumpig anywhere but on stall, where it gets Wish support and the fact that it loses tons of momentum doesn't hurt you much, so cut the balanced team part. You'll talk about Whirlwind in the analysis. It's not a huge part of Grumpig, so it doesn't need to be in the Overview. Grumpig is awful on Spikes-stacking teams barring stall, so just say it's good on stall for the reasons I mentioned earlier (Wish support, frees up the Heal Bell slot on teammates, doesn't matter that it kills momentum). Sunny Day Grumpig sounds fucking terrible, and it's not in the analysis, so cut that. Weakness to Ghost- and Dark-type moves doesn't matter because you don't try to take them on with Grumpig, and you use something else to beat Fighting-types. Emphasize that Grumpig is a dedicated Fire-type answer, and you shouldn't be using it for any other reason. You can also mention that Grumpig does especially well as a Fire-type check because its typing prevents it from being hit hard by common coverage that Fire-types carry.

Set should be named Thick Fat, unslash Psychic with Psyshock, and the set order should be Whirlwind > Heal Bell > Toxic / Thunder Wave > Psyshock. Mention Psychic in Moves still, but hitting Cryogonal is too good, especially when you wall it.

Cut the part about Whirlwinding Mr. Mime. No one using Soundproof anything or Mr. Mime, and the few people who do use Mr. Mime use a better ability. Don't mention Sub Pyroar either because it's really rare. Mention RestTalk with Whirlwind and Psyshock in moves. It's Grumpig's only recovery, and it isn't setup fodder while it's asleep because of Whirlwind.

No one uses BoltBeam Mesprit. Just say that you wall non-Signal Beam Mesprit. Taunt should be OO, and you should pretty much always run Heal Bell on Grumpig unless you're using RestTalk.

SubCM Mesprit doesn't exist. Just say Mesprit. Also mention that you'll want to carry something else that can beat SubCM Uxie because otherwise you lose to it in lastmon scenarios.

Stop talking about Sunny Day. It's no where on the analysis. When you talk about defensive Fairy-types, talk about Slurpuff instead of Granbull because it offers Wish support and has Aromatherapy as well. When you talk about Fighting-type partners, mention Gurdurr specifically because it has better physical bulk than Hariyama and Thick Fat is unnecessary. Cut Probopass as a partner. Mention Ferroseed over Seismitoad as a Water-type check. Every special Water-type in NU carries Grass-type coverage, barring Swanna, which is uncommon. Cut Lickilicky's mention (Audino is much better), as well as the two points above it.

Specifically state that Taunt and Magic Coat are both pretty much just for Ferroseed, with the added bonus that Magic Coat deflects Taunt. Cut everything else but HP Fire. Talk about an offensive set. Grumpig has base 80 Speed, which is pretty great, and it has good coverage (Psyshock, Signal Beam, Focus Blast), but it's pretty weak and needs the SpDef investment to take on Fire-types. So OO should just be Taunt, Magic Coat, HP Fire, and an offensive set.

Checks and Counters should include physical attacks in general. Like neutral nature LO Earthquake from Magmortar 3HKOs this thing. Make it the last point. Also cut the Bug-type part. It's so obvious, and your examples are poor anyways because Vivillon doesn't run Bug Buzz, Scyther only runs Bug-type moves on Band and Scarf and SD is by far the most common set, and SD Samurott is rare. Like the only other Bug-type in NU is Accelgor. Liepard never runs Taunt either. Not much does barring like lead Archeops and Qwilfish. So Checks and Counters should be like Dark-types / Ghost-types / Physical Attacks / Hazards.

All added/fixed.

 

[Ares]

Leafshield you have 24 hours to reply and 72 hours to update this to ORAS standards or this is going to be reassigned.

 

[Leafshield]

Leafshield you have 24 hours to reply and 72 hours to update this to ORAS standards or this is going to be reassigned.

Im not gonna have the time or knowledge of the meta to finish this, so I'm gonna go head and give it up.