XY UU CQC Close Quarters Combat! Balance

[jamashawalker]

At first I was just fooling around with the idea of nostalgia. Using an old team with only Gen IV Pokemon paired along with Infernape and Lucario. Two of Gen IVs best offensive Pokemon. With that in mind the team started off with just pokemon thrown in without any thought. Started like this

The Two Close Combatters. I wanted both of them to be all out attacking sets

Then I wanted two more hard hitters as well. And metagross with Trick was a cool idea and worked pretty well for awhile. Along with CB Perior

I knew I needed two more walls so I added Hippo and Milotic. This team surprisingly did average. Really bad once I started getting higher up on the ladder. Obviously this team has too many glaring weakness's but I loved the idea of keeping Infernape and Lucario. The problem with this team was I found almost no opportunity to switch Lucario and Infernape in other than revenge killing and putting pressure on walls.

Immediately I sacked the other 4 and added a real core that worked extremely well with Lucario and Infernape. I added Virizion because it has great synergy with this team and it is fun to add another Close Combatter. Virizion added a new element to the duo which I love!! Until I ran into...

Whimiscott added so many great elements to my team! A fast U-turner, counter to hydreigon(which is everywhere), encore to stop set up sweepers, also most of UU teams are surprisingly weak to whimiscott with Max SpAtk Moonblast+Giga Drain.

Here is where the dilemma lies. Both Whimiscott and Virizion are great on this team, but I cannot find a way to fit both of them on my team. I would gladly replace any of the core 4 but keeping the physical Lucario and Infernape to make them work. So far this team has allowed Lucario and Infernape to smash their way through anything with Close Combat. Virizion adds to this smashing but whimiscott provides alot of support.

Uxie @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 Spe
Impish Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Trick
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock

Description: This is my lead. It not only provides a quick SR, but it can also cripple opposing pokemon with thunder wave+Trick. It's real prize is U-turn, this allows for great switch in opportunities for Lucario +Infernape. The EVs are so that it can outspeed with choice scarf a crobat+Aerodactyl before M-evolve. A tricked crobat is a screwed crobat for the entire match.

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Wish
- Protect
- Baton Pass

Description: This is UU so you need a bulky water. Vaporeon is one of the best at it with wish +Baton Pass so I don't lose momentum. I've thought about Lanturn for this role for volt switch, but it doesnt have the same overall bulk as Vaporeon

Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Mach Punch

Description: The better out of the two IMO. Having a better dual STABs with Flareblitz added though the quickest to die. Also being faster is a huge perk. Mach Punch is necessary against faster pokemon. U-turn tops the cake for the set allowing it really put pressure on opponents. Of course with Life orb+Hazards+Recoil, this thing dies fast. But not without a hard punch in the face. If it's at 20% I tend not to give a single f$%@ because that means it can still fight.

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
- Sword Dance/Bullet Punch

Description: The cleaner/secondary Close Combat. He hits harder but lacks the secondary STAB that infernape has. Slower but hits alot of things for super effective in this meta. The SD set is beyond easy to pull off thanks to scouting and damage from SR. Though I do love switching it up to all out attacker if I'm running Virizion on the same team.

Ampharos @ Ampharosite
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpA
Bold Nature
- Volt Switch
- Dragon Pulse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Description: The thing that stops Fire spamming from going to work on this team. I run physically defensive to stop top physical threats from going to work on against me. It also provides great slow volt turns to give my other pokemon a safe switch in. Downside though is that it gets worn down but a great pair with vaporeon with Wish Passing.

________________________________________________________

Virizion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Leaf Blade
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance

Description: The third close combatter. Many teams are not prepared for SD set from her. In general this metagame is weak to Grass+. Stone Edge is only there for situations and coverage, but rarely used. While the weakest in strength, it provides the most switch in and set up opportunities out of the other two. Also very difficult to revenge kill making it a tough choice to drop.

Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Giga Drain
- U-turn
- Encore
Description: The best support pokemon on this team. I've described its role in the beginning but it plays an important part as being an annoyer, support, all out attacking destroying most offensive mons. Priority encore is a huge game changer. It makes setting up with Lucario all the more easier. But it's hard to replace over Virizion. This is where my dilemma comes in because both have been doing quite successful over the ladder. And times I'm just wishing I had one over the other.


Conclusion: This team has done well for me although unfinished. I have recieved advice for both of them though it's very difficult as to what I can replace for them. I love the combo of Lucario and Infernape doing major damage with Close Combat spamming. This metagame has forgotten about fight spam and it's time to remind people of why they are still dominant.


EDIT: Here is a great replay footage of this team. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-170864069

 

[dodmen]

Hi jamashawalker, you've got a solid looking team. I really like the momentum core you've got going on (one of the reasons why I think you should keep Whimsicott over Virizion) in order to get in your hard hitters.

Okay the first problem I have on your team is Infernape's set. I think a four attacks full physical set leaves too much to be desired: you'll kill yourself through recoil before you break Pokemon like defensive Florges, you don't have the coverage to break through Pokemon like Suicune, etc. Lucario's got the same problem especially if you run the four attacks set on that as well. Also, neither of these Pokemon have a way to deal with what I see as the biggest threat to your team: Chandelure. Not only can you not switch into this (Vaporeon is 2HKOd by Specs), but literally 2/3 of your team can't even touch it. So you have to take big damage getting Vaporeon in and assuming it doesn't just die you have to lose a ton of momentum healing yourself back up.

Here's something I'd be interested to see the result of: Change Infernape to a Swords Dance set, and Lucario to a Nasty Plot set. Both sets are posted in importables below. Swords Dance Infernape has the distinct advantage of luring and killing both Chandelure and Victini, removing two of Lucario's hardest checks. In turn, NP Lucario is much better at breaking through the Suicunes etc that Infernape finds annoying. Now both of these Pokemon have definitive ways to boost their offenses instead of being stuck repeatedly trying to break through Fairies while they just click Wish.

Another thing is might try is changing Vaporeon to more of a mixed spread, since a physically defensive Vaporeon seems a bit repetitive with a physically defensive Ampharos. This would help you against the aforementioned Chandelure in addition to opposing Nasty Plot Infernapes, and Hydreigons (since Whimsicott can get worn down with repeated U-turns and the occasional Fire Blast). I've posted a set given to me by King UU below.

I've got to say I think your Uxie set is really cool haha, I'd imagine it puts in some decent work against unsuspecting opponents. Are you sure you want to Trick Crobats and receive a likely Black Sludge though?

Anyway, I hope you find my suggestions useful. TL;DR I think Fairies and Chandelure are enormous problems for your team, and I think the changes I've suggested remedy these weaknesses to an extent. Let me know what you think, and good luck with this team in the future :]

Sets for Infernape and Lucario

Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Fire Punch
- Close Combat/Mach Punch
- Earthquake

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest/Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Aura Sphere
- Flash Cannon
- Vacuum Wave

Set for Vaporeon

Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Scald
- Baton Pass

 

[Calloflochie]

Ok, so you've got cool volturn thang going on but there are a few improvements that I think could be made to your team.

Hopefully, you don't mind me switching out your cool Pokemon for frankly, ones that better fit the metagame but I think that's what i'm going to have to do. My first suggestion is you change out Vaporeon for Life Orb Hydreigon. Vaporeon as it stands sits pretty awkwardly in your team and doesn't particularly do much given the offensive nature of your team. It also provides a much more stable check to Chandelure and although it doesn't help with Fairies (that is what my next suggestion is for though) you can opt to run U-turn over Superpower/Iron Tail in order to retain momentum vs things like Florges, which otherwise wall Hydreigon. My second suggestion would be to change Uxie to Gligar as this A) gives you a solid SR'er B) Provides momentum C) can defog if you choose to go in that direction and D) Give you an Electric immunity, which IMO is one of the most important aspects of Volturn because you don't want the opponent to be able to counter your momentum with Volt Switch / U-turn of their own. Gligar also takes some of the pressure off your pretty evident Ground weakness and is generally a pretty solid backbone Pokemon. As for minor changes, I do think that changing your Infernape set would be a good idea, and in my opinion a Nasty Plot + Close Combat set would be the best one to fit you. You don't have a problem with Chandelure if you use Hydreigon and Nasty Plot + CC let's you decimate Stall, which can otherwise cause you a bit of grief. Lucario should stay SD, I don't really see the appeal of Nasty Plot on your team so I think you should stick with SD Luke. The finally thing I will say Whimsicott is really cool but I think EVs could do with a bit of adjustment. Currently you're running an offensive Whim with 0 Speed, a kind of baffling idea to me. If you are choosing to go with Offensive Whimsicott, I would A) Run enough speed for Base 100s or B) Just run Max Speed Timid so you can outspeed stuff like Mega Absol. Regardless, that is some food for thought and i'll let you decide for yourself if you want to make that change :]

The full Pokemon changes have the sets below and the others you should be able to work out (just Max SpA, Max Speed for Infernape Naive and Adamant Max Atk Max Spe Luke). But that is all I have, hopefully these changes improve your team and yeah, good luck with laddering :]

Hydreigon set

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Roost
- U-turn

Gligar set

Gligar @ Eviolite
Ability: Immunity / Hyper Cutter
EVs: 248 HP / 216 SpD / 44 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Roost
- U-turn / Defog

 

[jamashawalker]

Alright when I get home I'm going to try the Mach III ver. for this team. Thank you guys for the suggestions!!

Apologize f&f as I'm typing this from my phone.

Gligar<- uxie
Hydreigon<- vaporeon
SD infernape with fire punch+ mach punch
SD Luke
Whimiscott with enough speed evs to out speed meinshao
M-ampharos

I think this might work however I have more of a glaring weakness to fairies now. I'm going to try this and switch in hydreigon for ampharos and keep vaporeon. If fairies really do become a problem. Most of them are defensive which is nice though.

EDIT: Interesting though how hydreigon does patch up my chandelure weakness. As of right now I'm thinking of either replacing roost for fire blast if an opposing Luke is going to be a problem. If my opponent plays smart they'll know I have no way of damaging Luke after a Draco Meteor. But we'll see how this plays out with roost first. Thank you guys for the suggestions!!

EDIT2: thanks RowDog Lol I forgot to change it

 

[RowDog]

Just quickly, if you choose to continue running SD luc run Justified > Inner Focus. Not sure if you forgot to change it or whatever, but that attack boost allows you to punish weak Knock Off users and abuse choice locked Hydrei all too well whereas there are like 0 people running Fakeout and Jirachi is more likely to Fire Punch then Iron Head you.

 

[dodmen]

Yes inner focus is only beneficial on nasty plot Lucario, justified should definitely be used on swords dance.

Be really careful against fairies. The good thing about Vaporeon is that it allowed you a slower baton pass out of Florges so Vaporeon took the moonblast, and then infernape or whoever could come in safely. Gligar is faster than Florges so a uturn would result in the incoming pokemon taking the moonblast instead.

Also I'd probably just run enough speed on whimsicott to outspeed 108s - infernape,virizion, cobalion, and galvantula. The loss in bulk is negligible, but the increase in speed could definitely come in handy.

Finally I'd definitely keep roost on hydreigon since this allows you to switch in multiple times against chandelure and recover off the damage. I can't stress how much chandelure just decimates your team, especially if you were to use Nasty Plot infernape, lol.

Quick edit: even if you were to run iron tail on hydreigon, you have Gligar and if you're specially defensive, it counters all Lucario anyway besides the rare Ice Punch. So you don't have to worry too much about Lucario as long as you keep Gligar relatively healthy.

However, making the changes calloflochie suggested would leave you suuuper weak to the nidos-they can basically come in and click ice beam without fearing a single thing. Vaporeon and Uxie were decent checks at least, I'd at least consider keeping Vaporeon and investing a lot into special defense.

 

[jamashawalker]

After my test on the Mach III version here is what I came up with:

Hide

Uxie @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 Spe
Impish Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Trick
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock


Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 SpD
Calm Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Scald
- Baton Pass

Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
-Mach Punch

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
- Sword Dance

Whimsicott Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA/8 Def/ 248 Speed
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Giga Drain
- U-turn
- Encore

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Iron Tail
- U-turn

Changes:

• Keeping Whimiscott but changed it to the all out attacker set with Life Orb. With Leftovers I wasn't really finding any bulk potential coming from whimiscott. Life Orb Whimiscott hits this UU metagame HARD. I've had a couple of late game sweeps with this thing. Made it with enough speed to outspeed 115. The rare Offensive starmie causes huge problems for my team. Thinking of adding psychic to his movepool to nail Crobat and roserade switch ins. Most crobat I have ran into don't run enough speed to outspeed Whimiscott so nailing them with Psychic would be a huge benifit to aiding the rest of my team. Should I fit that into Whimiscott's movepool?
• Replaced Ampharos with Hydreigon. I had to choose between Ampharos or Hydreigon because the fairy weakness and not being able to get pass Florges was really glaring. I replaced Roost for Iron Tail. Roost was great for continually switching into Chandelure, but the only way I was getting past florges was with a SD fire punch from Infernape.
• Changed infernape to SD set. All out attacking is nice along with U-turn. But pulling late game sweeps with infernape and lucario is better. Teams cannot handle the dual sets of SD and both have similar checks (on average limited to 1 check per team for both of them) Infernape's favorite switch in is Tentacruel so I was thinking of adding EQ to his movepool and replacing Mach Punch. The benifits to adding EQ is hitting Non-scarf chandelure, Nidos for hard immediate damage, and as stated before getting passed tentacruel. Thoughts on that one?

Tried Gligar out for some rounds but it was underwhelming compared to uxie's annoying factor. There wasn't much for it to wall, wearing it down was really easy, and I ended just using it for a death fodder most of the time. The vaporeon set suggested has worked alot better that I've noticed a difference in how it takes special attacks better. Victini was trouble..."was." So i'm no longer worried about taking V-creates from that thing. Being able to take a hit from the Nidos and responding back feels comfortable.

Thinking of also try this Jirachi set in place of Uxie.

Jirachi Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 120 SpDef/ 136 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Iron Head
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
This will add alot more weaknesses to my team but I love the idea of Flinch Hax with paralysis to be a good get out situation. Also it was give me tons of switch in opportunities against Florges and other fairies. Allowing me to possibly forgo Iron Tail on Hydreigon. I put enough Speed EVs to out speed Timid Nidoking, a widely used huge pain in my side. At least I might possibly be able to fish out some hax instead of it getting a free switch in. Thoughts on this switch?

TL:DR

Should I add Psychic to whimiscott?
Should I add EQ to Infernape?
Should I switch Uxie for the Jirachi set?


Thank you guys again for your input!! It has really helped ALOT!

 

[dodmen]

Hey man, really glad to hear that the changes you've made have been useful. Real quick, I'm a bit confused because in the latest importable you have Infernape still as an all-out attacking set but mentioned changing it to SD. I think it may have been a typo, but I'll repost the set I recommended before anyway:

Infernape Set

Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Fire Punch
- Close Combat/Mach Punch
- Earthquake

I do recommend Earthquake to hit Chandelure, Victini, and Tentacruel, you can also deal big damage to defensive Arcanine and kill Nidoqueen. Earthquake just generally hits a lot of things that people think can check Nape safely. I don't think you need Thunderpunch since you have ways of dealing with waters (BP Vaporeon and Encore Whimsicott) so really the only choice you have to make comes down to Mach Punch vs. Close Combat. Close Combat is obviously better for wallbreaking, but Mach Punch deals with a lot of things, namely Scarfers and faster mons (aside from Crobat obviously) that come in looking to revenge kill you. Personally I'd go with Mach Punch since you already have a strong CC'er in Lucario, but again, that's entirely up to you.

Since you should have EQ on Infernape, I'd now recommend changing Lucario's EQ slot for something else like Bullet Punch (can kill Florges easily this way, along with Sableye and Aero), or really any other move you think could be beneficial.

Overall though, I really like the dual SD Infernape + Lucario thing you've got going on. Like I said in previous posts, I think it works a LOT better than the simple all out attacking sets you had earlier. You're actually capable of breaking through defensive 'mons and threatening offense with boosted priority.

Psychic on Whimsicott is an interesting option for sure, I'd try it out and see how it goes. Personally, if you couldn't tell from my first post, I'm not a huge fan of Life Orb U-turn because it just wears you down with hazards and recoil so fast while dealing minimal damage to switchins. In addition, hitting Crobat hard on the switchin could be hugely important since it generally threatens a lot of your team, easily checking Infernape and capable of living an Extremespeed from Lucario even at +2 from full HP. So my answer is yes, change U-turn to Psychic on Whimsicott.

Finally, Jirachi is definitely an option that could help you against Florges. (I have had zero experience using Uxie in this tier so take my words with a grain of salt.) I don't like paraflinch Jirachi all that much just because there'll always be things that you'll never break through (Suicune, Arcanine) and if you rely on para-flinching to break through mons like Blastoise there's always a significant chance that they'll break through and kill you. I also like the valuable ground immunity that Uxie brings to your team, and Jirachi would make it even easier for the Nidos and Krookodile to click their Ground moves. Plus if you're really desperate you can try tricking your scarf to Florges making it much less of a problem.

Sorry my posts have been so massive but I hope they've helped a little bit. I really like this team a lot though, this has been fun to rate and I'm happy to see that the changes you're making are yielding positive results.

 

[Calloflochie]

Life Orb Hydreigon with U-turn is a terrible idea, use Roost over that. There's no real point running EQ on Lucario since Chandy are either gonna be Timid or Scarf so replace that with Bullet Punch. I would honestly switch the Uxie set to just a standard tank set cause Trick Scarf with ridiculous speed investment but only U-turn just seems silly to me. Especially when you now have Mixed LO hydreigon and two SD mons to break stall. And no don't change the Uxie to Jirachi cause it makes you even more weak to Fighting-types. :]