Resource XY NU Viability Ranking

[Toljik]

Do you realize Hustle and Guts give the same damage boost, without having the 20% chance of missing and getting OHKOed in return? Unlike Durant, it doesn't have the defensive stats nor the typing. Guts also allows Raticate to use Facade, which does more damage than Double-Edge. Guts Raticate does more damage, does not risk missing and doing nothing 20% of the time, and actually takes less self-inflicted damage than Life Orb Double-Edge. All that for not having to get Toxic Orb activated, which honestly isn't even that hard. And I guess special coverage moves, but they're iffy at best.

I know Raticate's extent of strength. It's actually not-terrible normal-type spammer because it U-turns well without having to spin. The usual U-turn on Normal-spam, Swellow, is weak to SR which is somewhat unfortunate because U-turn forces you to switch out. But that's basically it. Raticate in XY NU isn't fast quite fast enough. You get outsped by almost all offensive mons because there's more speedy threats like Sceptile and the Fire-types, Archeops, etc. It's weak to priority, etc. It's not tanky like Kangaskhan, Miltank, or even Tauros. If anything, from what you have there, Life Orb GK 2HKOing Rhydon is probably the best gimmick part of the set, but gimmick LO special attacks is often done better by Tauros.

It's honestly not terrible, but Raticate just has so many stuff that just does things better.

Of course Hustle and Guts provide the same boost, but Hustle allows you to use items. A Life Orb and Hustle boosted Double Edge hits harder than a Toxic Orb boosted Facade, while providing a 30% boost on all its other moves compared to Guts.

(also more reliable stab priority move in quick attack.

It's weaker than Sucker Punch, but Raticate can also learn Quick Attack.

EDIT: I'd be fine with D+, too. Raticate's more powerful and faster than anything in that rank (except for lolpikachu), but Hustle's downsides balance that out.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Imo Mismagius is definitely A+ Rank. It is the best Ghost-type in the tier right now, and its NP set is really good atm. Mismagius is a pretty good sweeper with decent power and nice Speed, and it has a lot of neat utility options such as Taunt and Destiny Bond too. With Shadow Ball and one of either Dazzling Gleam or HP Fighting, Mismagius has great coverage too, which helps it a lot as a sweeper. It can be a decent stallbreaker or it can go out with a bang against Pokemon it can't kill if it's about to die. Overall it's just a really flexible Pokemon. Plus being the best Ghost-type in the tier also means it's the best spinblocker in the tier too, so that's cool too, especially on Crustle offense.

Kabutops should also be A+ as well. It secures itself a place in the tier right now as the best spinner in the tier (I wanted it to be A+ back in like September but before I was going to post it Zeb added it to A). I used the classic set from BW RU, ie Swords Dance / Aqua Jet / Stone Edge / Rapid Spin. It is a great spinner and a pretty deadly sweeper in one with this set and a +2 Aqua Jet wrecks faster mons, while Stone Edge just hits hard. It can also spin pretty decently well because it provides a lot of offensive pressure. Its typing is neat defensively as well, and Weak Armor is also a clutch ability to gain an edge against offensive teams. It's also kind of fun on rain. Kabutops is really awesome right now and it should definitely be A+ Rank.

I'm pretty torn on Slurpuff, but I don't think it should go lower than A+. It's a very versatile threat and both of its offensive threats are threatening late-game cleaners, the Belly Drum set only needs one turn to set up and it becomes almost completely unstoppable once its counters are gone (read: almost). The Calm Mind set is rather weak and becomes a threat less quickly than the Belly Drum set, but it does its job of luring in the Belly Drum answers and wrecking them. These two sets together make Slurpuff a pretty massive threat and it could easily threaten all kinds of teams. The defensive set is pretty nice, since Slurpuff provides Wish and Aromatherapy support and its typing and decent bulk are cool, though that set is no where near A+. It can be a pretty huge threat and handling the wrong set could lead to Slurpuff causing quite a bit of damage. The argument that Hariyama revenge kills it is kind of amusing tbh, since I mean obviously Slurpuff can't set up on Bullet Punch, though Hariyama is also one of the easiest Pokemon to wear down anyways.

Admittedly Slurpuff does have a bit of difficulty setting up and priority kinda sucks for it, so I can see why people want it to drop, but because of its ability to become a really threatening late-game cleaner that can be hard to stop once its counters are gone, I think A+ is as low as it should go.

Also I agree with Crustle to A, because it is literally the best thing ever on HO teams and is a necessity on any of those teams imo.

I won't post about the others because I don't feel like doing so lol.

 

[Dillon~]

I'd say Mismagius for A+ rank for sure. It's very fast and can hit very hard.

 

[Toljik]

The one thing that makes me hesitant about Slurpuff is how weak it is before a boost, whether from Calm Mind or Belly Drum. It needs that turn to set up, which makes it just a bit less versatile than the other S-ranks. A+ would be a good spot.

 

[Ares]

The one thing that makes me hesitant about Slurpuff is how weak it is before a boost, whether from Calm Mind or Belly Drum. It needs that turn to set up, which makes it just a bit less versatile than the other S-ranks.

Well Mesprit is all over the place in terms of versatility, but comparing it to Feraligatr, Feraligatr has 2 different offensive sets which are pretty weak before a boost as well. Slurpuff has 3 viable sets, with one of them being able to run 3 different variants on it.

 

[Evan.]

I'm gonna drop a couple of things I've been feeling about the metagame.

Ferroseed from A+ --> A

Ferroseed is still a really solid defensive pokemon in the meta, however I feel like the meta has adapted to it quite nicely. A variety of lures such as HP fire Mesprit and Vileplume, Superpower Feraligatr/Kabutops and Natural Gift Leafeon can all beat it as well as the rising popularity of Defensive CM Xatu which annihilates it. Many of the things that it used to wall hard now have found ways to get around it. Ferroseed is no longer the meta-defining defensive threat that it once was, however it still deserves at least A Rank imo.

Victreebel from C+ --> B-/B

I know that Victreebel just got raised, however I feel like it could use a little more of a buff in the rankings. Many people think that Victreebel's only niche is as a sun sweeper (and a fearsome one at that), however Victreebel is a very cool mon to use on offensive teams. Grass/Poison is a very good offensive typing right now and Victreebel is a very nice option to both check Feraligatr as well as absorb T-Spikes which is amazing on offensive teams. It also provides great offensive utility with Sucker Punch, and can even run a more gimmicky SD set. Overall, Victreebel has niches as both a sun sweeper as well as an offensive utility mon that deserves it to go up a rank or two.

 

[Mistrals]

Just gonna throw my thoughts out on a couple things and throw out a couple more ideas.

to A+

The thing about Slurpuff is that it's quite simply not as threatening as the other S ranked pokemon in the tier, and even some lower imo. It's often predictable what set it is just looking at a team, it's sets all have a number of checks, some of which are shared between sets, and it's CM sets quite frankly struggle to hit hard until it gets a couple of cms up. Both of it's offensive sets are taken down by common priority users such as Hariyama and Kangaskhan as well. CM can be stopped by most good special tanks/walls in this tier or at least whittled down to the point where a priority move will take them out. BD Puff has a decent number of checks as well, such as Weezing and Steelix, which can easily stop it. Also, once you click BD Slurpuff isn't switching out without becoming almost useless, so if your opponent has anything that can deal with it you basically have used up your puff for maybe damage off on something or a kill at best.
It's still a great mon and can be devastating, but not one of the greatest, and not on par with mons like Mesprit imo.

to S

I really have some mixed feelings on this one. On one side, you have it being predictably choiced, getting easily whittled down by hazards, and losing it's eruption nuke if it takes any notable damage. On the other side, you have one of the most devastatingly hard hitters in the tier that can also run scarf and clean, while hitting incredibly hard. It's able to 3hko almost the entire tier at worst, and more often than not 2hko or ohko. Very little switches into a specs eruption once. There are also quite a few solid spinners and defoggers in the tier right now, such as Kabutops, Sandslash, Cryogonal, Vullaby, Togetic, Mantine, Swanna, and Pelipper. Specs Typhlosion is one of the biggest threats in the tier right now, and also having the ability to run scarf can make it hard to deal with until you know what set it is, and that often can involve either losing a mon or taking heavy damage on it. It's incredibly scary and powerful, and even if you get damage off on it to take away eruption you can knock it into the even more threatening blaze range.
I'm leaning towards S rank just because of how incredibly threatening this thing can be and how hard it is to switch into safely.

to A+

Lilligant is one of the most dangerous sweepers in this tier. Access to sleep powder gives it quite a few setup opportunities, quiver dance is an extremely effective set-up move, and giga drain giving it recovery makes it pretty hard to take this thing down with special attacks after it gets a quiver or two up. There's not a very large amount of things that stop the typical hp fire variant, and most of those lose to hp rock. Sleep Powder also makes it difficult to stop this thing with most of the mons that check it, and you are pretty much forced to sleep fodder something, quite possibly crippling that mon for the rest of the match. It certainly has flaws, such as being taken down by ice shard users like Sneasel and Piloswine, and being unable to do enough to Magmortar unless it carries hp rock, and if it carries hp rock it then becomes stopped by ferroseed who can both para it and take advantage of Lilli's speed boosts with gyro ball. However, not knowing which hidden power it carries makes sending the right thing in to stop Lilli even harder.
I feel it's definitely deserving of A+ Rank just because of how devastating Lilligant can be.

to B-

Dodrio is an incredibly powerful pokemon, with base 110 attack and STAB Brave Bird. The only things switching into CB Dodrio that well are some Steel and Rock type pokemon, which Dodrio can knock off to hinder or cripple for the rest of the match. Outside of those, however, Dodrio can devastate even some physical walls.
252 Atk Choice Band Dodrio Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 187-222 (57.8 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Dodrio Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 151-178 (45.2 - 53.2%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Dodrio Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 166-196 (49.7 - 58.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
It also easily breaks things like Tangela, Vileplume, and Gurdurr of course, and easily 2hkoes Audino with even Frustration as well. It also has it's normal stab for when it doesn't need to be taking brave bird recoil, which hits most things hard enough anyways. Plus, it has quick attack, which is able to pick off and revenge weakened mons if needed. It faces competition from the better Swellow, who isn't choiced and has U-turn and better speed, but also isn't taking recoil every turn and doesn't get whittled down quite as easily, though SR and Brave Bird is of course able to take it's toll. It however hits slightly harder with Brave Bird than even Swellow's Facade.
252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 163-193 (48.8 - 57.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
It also ends up with a much more powerful quick attack
252 Atk Guts Swellow Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cryogonal: 181-214 (64.1 - 75.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Dodrio Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cryogonal: 214-253 (75.8 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Dodrio even has other effective tricks over Swellow like Knock Off and Pursuit, and even has the ability to run a scarfed set and more gimmicky sets such as Sub Endeavor and WP Endure Flail.
TL;DR: The bird is strong, powerful, and has various niches.

to B-
After playing around with Vullaby for a while, I've really started to feel that it should be on par with Togetic for it's various niches. First off, Vullaby has a resistance to ghost and immunity to psychic, both of which are very useful. Second, it has taunt, which can hinder a lot of mons, such as Ferroseed and Audino. Third, it has Foul Play pared with amazing physical bulk, which can be an amazing tool as Vullaby can be able to check or countera lot of notable threats, such as Feraligatr, Sawk and even Archeops in some scenarios.
252 Atk Archeops Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Vullaby: 200-236 (58.3 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Vullaby: 144-169 (41.9 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Feraligatr Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Vullaby: 180-212 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Sawk Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Vullaby: 181-214 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(seriously why is this thing so bulky)
It's able to switch into a lot of physical attackers, of course and can also even take on some special attackers, or at least live a hit from them and dish out some damage back
252 SpA Mesprit Dazzling Gleam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 144-170 (41.9 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mesprit Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 264-312 (76.9 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Rotom Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 224-266 (65.3 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 205-243 (59.7 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Electivire Wild Charge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Vullaby: 213-252 (62 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
imo this thing is one of the best defoggers as it's not mostly dead weight unlike some(*cough*Lumineon*cough*), and has enough bulk to get off crucial defogs in a lot of scenarios.
It's unique characteristics, stats, typing, and moves can make it very effective.

Also, just some quick D ranking notes
Raticate to D, it's got a couple tricks that give it a slight niche, though for the most part it's outclassed by mons like Ursaring, Swellow and Zangoose.
Fearow to D-, access to Drill Run (and U-turn in Dodrio's case) give it a niche over other flying types in the tier. Not amazing, but not absolutely garbage either. It's not like it's any worse than Wigglytuff.

 

[Disjunction]

Wanted to offer my input here for whatever it's worth

--> A+
I agree that Typhlosion is one of the most threatening mons in the tier for sure. However, I'm not agreeing here that it's worthy of S rank because it has a number of easily exploitable flaws.

• Obvious weakness to all forms of hazards, regardless of its (in my opinion) very shaky synergy with Kabutops. Kabu loses one on one to a lot of Typhlosion's checks and counters unless it snagged an SD before-hand.
• Choice locked problems. Typhlosion loses a lot of momentum for a team if it gets locked into the wrong move. It's really neat that you have a chance at 2hko'ing that Dragalge switch-in with Extrasensory (with rocks, I might add, and assuming rocks will always be up is a fallacy in an argument), but it's no longer a guess as to what they can go for next.
• Weak to priority. While being knocked in Blaze range is really cool, it doesn't mean anything if you can't touch the opponent before they do you. It's incredibly common for teams to carry (at the very least) 1 priority user on their team nowadays. Gatr, Costa, Kabu, Kanga, Liepard, Pawniard, Samurott, Hariyama, etc all have very reliable priority they can use to knock typhlosion out of Eruption range and even above Blaze range. It's very rare that you are able to bring in a Scarf Typhlosion three times into Stealth Rock so you can get that nice Blaze Fire Blast because of how easy it is to check.
• Over-saturation of fire types in the tier has lead to the development of very difficult answers for typhlosion to overcome. Hariyama, Dragalge, and Lanturn are three common mons that stop Typhlosion cold. Some teams may be so desperate that they could use mons like Altaria/Grumpig. While I'm aware that every mon has its stops and answers, I don't think we should nom a mon for S rank solely for its sheer power when almost every team carries something that puts a stop to it right away. At the very least, Gatr has Superpower for seed, Slurpuff has Protect BD for Kanga, and Mesprit is almost unrivaled in its support field with Trick, Healing Wish, etc. Typhlosion has virtually nothing for any of its hard counters.

Trust me, I love Typhlosion, he's awesome at what he does. I just don't feel a mon that requires a choice item should be in a rank with meta-defining titans like Mesprit and Gatr.

If it's alright, I'd like to make a nom myself if we're talking about the S-rank here...

--> S rank
I would say Uxie has enough unique and important niches in the current meta to warrant this prestigious position. It has a set for just about any team archetype out there and no other mon can really pull them off as well as Uxie does. Some notable sets include

• Anti-lead Uxie with Imprison (a little gimmick, but a relevant one nonetheless)
• Physically defensive Rocks Uxie (one of the few rockers in the tier that can handle many different types of offensive pressure at once to lay down rocks)
• Bulky CM (does it differently than Mushy as it's waaay faster)
• Weather lead with Memento (most weather teams default instantly to Uxie for its ability to set up weather, rocks, and keep up momentum with Memento. Nearly unrivaled in its ability to do this.)
• Fast Dual Screens support (best screener in the tier due to Memento being able to keep momentum)

Outside of its great support versatility, it's one of the bulkiest mons in the entire tier as it cannot be OHKO'd outside of boosting moves and crits.

252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Uxie: 259-306 (73.1 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Black Glasses Liepard Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Uxie: 156-186 (44 - 52.5%) -- 18% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Uxie: 179-213 (50.5 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Uxie: 276-326 (77.9 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This thing eats hits all day. Not to mention that's all without any defensive investment. The best part of Uxie is that there is no best defensive spread for it, you can just tailor it to take whatever hit you need it to on your team. Not only that, but it sports one of the most impressive support movepools in the tier (U-turn, Knock Off, Stealth Rock, Yawn, Thunder Wave, Dual Screens, Memento, Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Trick, and Imprison) and a pretty nice offensive movepool so you can pick what you want and don't want to wall your sub cm set (stuff like Giga Drain, Dazzling Gleam, and T-bolt).

Overall, Uxie's a fantastic mon in the meta right now and, in my opinion, is a clear candidate for S rank.

 

[Aladyyn]

Outside of its great support versatility, it's one of the bulkiest mons in the entire tier as it cannot be OHKO'd outside of boosting moves and crits.

Let me just leave this here: 252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Zweilous Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Uxie: 386-456 (109 - 128.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

As far as Typhlosion goes, I don't think it warrants S at this point. Yes, it can turn its hazards weakness into a strength, but far too often I find it stuck in that awkward limbo where it isn't at high health and at the same time not in Blaze AND at the same time dies to a lot of priority moves. It's also pretty easily checked and forced out by Rhydon, Gatr, etc. These checks are also really easy to fit on a team even without thinking about Typhlosion specifically, unlike the S rank Feraligatr.

 

[The Quasar]

I'm on iPhone, but I want to sketch some supports, whereof one of them newness.

Slurpluff S => A+
Mismagius A => A+
Kaboutops A => A+

Well, I want to briefly illustrate drop/rises above.

Slurpluff S => A+

Slurpluff is a versatile pokemon. Belly Drum maximizes its Attack, activating its Unburden/Sitrus Berry, CM sets are good too (I prefer CM/Substitute/Dazzling Gleam and Surf/Flamethrover with Sitrus Berry, point at issue it's weakness depending on what you choose!) but many times it's not so easy to put a Sub and make a free CM. As far as you don't activate unburden, Slurpluff can "endure" faster foes; furthemore, Vileplume and expecially Dragalge's usage limit its effectiveness.

+2 252+ SpA Slurpuff Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dragalge: 135-159 (40.4 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ SpA Slurpuff Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vileplume: 117-138 (33 - 38.9%) -- 10% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery


Mismagius A => A+

Perhaps best NU wallbreaker for fast Taunt, spinblocker, immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, STAB Shadow Ball (boosted from LO but also with Spookie Plate) and Dazzling Gleam, access to Destiny Bond to kill itself and its opponent when it becomes dangerous. What else? I think its usage will rise too.


Kaboutops A => A+

Kaboutops is recently dropped by RU. 115 base Atk and two STABs physical attacks like Waterfall and Stone Edge could be just enough to guarantee its raise:

252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 214-253 (65.8 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Samurott: 246-290 (74 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Audino: 242-286 (59 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Audino: 195-230 (47.5 - 56%) -- 23.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Dragalge: 231-274 (69.1 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 242-286 (76.1 - 89.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Waterfall vs. 52 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 195-230 (61.3 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kangaskhan: 255-302 (72.6 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I don't relate about others like Archeops too (Aqua Jet is sufficient for it). It's not enough. Sword Dance could boost Attack, faster spinner, a priority Aqua Jet, Low Kick and expecially Knock Off access. Last but not least, don't forget Swift Swim: 518 speed and additional Atk water moves boost, Pyoar and Tymplosion aren't a problem anymore. Terrible (for foes).

 

[g]

Definitely agree on Typhlosion to S rank.
Everybody knows how hard Typhlosion hits with Fire Blast and Eruption and how functional its coverage is (Fire+Grass+Psychic coverage is really strong in NU indeed) so I'll just skip that part.

S Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.

Typhlosion fits this description very very well as in the free turns it gets (which are a lot considering its literally any time it is in against something slower and not resistant to Fire Blast) it can support his team (in its case, by wall breaking) and do very heavy damage. Its flaws, like its hazards weakness, are surely mitigated by the fact that it can actually hit harder when low (increasing it's wallbreaking capabilities) and by the really few number of Pokemon who can switch into it multiple times. It is also so influent most teams have to carry at least 2 resists (ik other fire types exist too) and even then they can be hit for super effective damage by Typhlosion's extremely functional coverage unless you have grumpig or sumthing lol

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

I disagree with putting Typhlosion in S. For one, many teams being prepared for a certain threat does not justify a higher ranking based on viability. Rather, Typhlosion becomes less viable due to many teams deciding to prepare for it. Little fallacy there. Two, Typhlosion has significant flaws. One being SR, instantly reducing the power of its strongest move (Eruption) and limiting the amount of times it can switch in. Three, your Fire-moves only get powered up if you're in Blaze range which until further notice is below 1/3 of its maximum HP. When you know that Typhlosion is frail and would need to safely come in on SR three times to get in Blaze range, you get the idea: not the strongest argument. Being reliant on Specs to wallbreak is also something you can't just overlook.

There's some other minor flaws like HP Grass being a terrible move to get locked into with Specs but even with just those flaws mentioned above there's no way to justify putting Typhlosion in S rank.

 

[Pooch13]

Too many things to talk about so I'll just talk about the ones i use the most to keep it "short".

From A+ to S rank : Don't agree with this one for a couple of reasons, hazards makes eruption weaker (everyone knows this)
Even if ty has blaze, its not always in blaze range and when it is in blaze range it gets priority killed and god knows priority is common in NU.
Third reason is it needs choice items so it can get locked in an undesired move and while it may seem like a poor argument it forces Ty to switch oout and take more hazard damage. Last reason : Ninetales and Grumpig! (i think someone mentioned it already probably) these lil bastards can take care of Ty being immune/resisting to its stabs resisting hp grass and being neutral/resisting to Extrasensory. Ty needs too much support imo to be considered S rank :

252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat Grumpig: 109-130 (29.9 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat Grumpig: 73-87 (20 - 23.9%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

Note : Also i agree 100% with Punchroom in respect to keeping Ty and Pyroar on the same rank whichever it is, it just seems fair giving the pros and cons of each mon that make them "equal" in viability.

From A to A- : Don't agree either. Stall may be out of style right now but the fact that Audino can support any type of team like a boss makes him deserving of staying where he's at, not lower, not higher. Regen allows him to kinda ignore hazard damage stacking and he himself along with another poke can keep the match going just by wish passing healing statuses.

From D+ to C : I kind off agree, tbh i've never tried the CM sub set (which seems to be the best) but I'm mostly thinking about the rest of the sets serp can pull off. Physical--->faster than leafeon and better overall bulk, it can set screens pretty fast too without being weak to knock off like Meowstic + serp has glare that can paralyze ground types.

From A+ to A : Agree, almost every team packs something for seed being taunt or fire coverage or trick as well as xatu w/ Heat wave who rapes it. Not much else to say tho, its still a pain in the ass.

From A+ to S : I've said this for a long time now. This is probably the mon i hate the most in the tier just because of the fact that it can set anything or support brilliantly a team. Bulky af it can pull of a plethora of sets (CM, dual screens, chesto rest ? lol , SR setter, suicide lead and a couple more I might be missing) so you never know which variant you re facing and it can be too late.

Let me just leave this here: 252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Zweilous Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Uxie: 386-456 (109 - 128.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

As far as Typhlosion goes, I don't think it warrants S at this point. Yes, it can turn its hazards weakness into a strength, but far too often I find it stuck in that awkward limbo where it isn't at high health and at the same time not in Blaze AND at the same time dies to a lot of priority moves. It's also pretty easily checked and forced out by Rhydon, Gatr, etc. These checks are also really easy to fit on a team even without thinking about Typhlosion specifically, unlike the S rank Feraligatr.

Seeing how your Zweilous is adamant it doesnt outspeed uninvested Uxie so it can set up reflect first turn in yo face then light screen and die or Knock of your item avoid the 1HKO and then set rocks:

252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Zweilous Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Uxie through Reflect: 193-228 (54.5 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Hustle Zweilous Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Uxie: 258-306 (72.8 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If its not adamant it fails to 2HKO physically defensive Uxie too. If it is jolly it 1HKOes non physical Uxie but you can just run 44 speed EVs in Uxie to outspeed and then Uxie can set reflect then knock off the CB and then set up Light screen because it becomes a 3HKO (58,7%after reflect+39,2% after CB is knocked off for Jolly nature)

So seeing how it can do as it F-ing pleases unless its taunted by a faster mon (in which case it can run max speed+HP as a fast bulky support) it WILL setup hazards rain or screens.

And agree with blaziken over Dodrio and Vullaby, not much to add.

 

[Yellow Cheese]

Typh is cool, and a pretty strong poke, But it is not worth S-rank. It is very predicable, is really easy revenge killed and weakness to hazards is bad. Eruption is strong and everthing, but becomes a waste of a moveslot after one SR switchin. Typh also has a problem in that it cannot switching on ANYTHING because of its need to stay healthy. Blaze fire blast is stronger than Eruption, but it is in no way easy to get. You guys are talking about blaze as if it was easy to switch in on hazards multiple times, but it is not and when you finally get there you are very easy to revenge kill. Also locking yourself into the wrong move can make you setupfodder (SD Kabutops loves Eruption locked Typh). Keep at A+ or drop it to A imo.

Slurpuff is much easier to deal with than before, but is still meta defining and difficult to deal with for many teams. Im not against a drop but I dont mind it staying in S.

Uxie is a great mon, But I think its weakness to Knock off, lack of offensive presence and competition with Mesprit should keep it out of S-rank

Fuck the blob

Ferroseed is a funny pokemon,as it can do an exellent job in checking many sweepers and set up hazards relativly easy from start to finish, but despite the game begin ready for it I still think it is worth A+ becasue of its great support movepull and great defensive typing (checking both standard Mesprit and Gatr at once it pretty cool too)

Dodrio and Vullaby are pokemon I never see, but I can see why they could rise. No opinion.

Serperior is really cool and brawl said all the things I would say, so I dont mind it rasing from D to C+,but I think C fits it more.

Doge for C- rank, it is strong af and it is really difficult to switch into it, as Return does so much damage, even to resists like Pawniard, god-like coverage just makes it better, but becasu you need hippo I dont see it as that prominant or strong.
252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Pawniard: 109-129 (47.1 - 55.8%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO

Also Camerupt is amazing atm, Physical defensive is its best set imo and it does major work again many pokemon in the tier. Rock polish is a really funny gimmick aswell, allowing you to bypass usual checks like non-aqua jet Kabutops and lanturn. I can see it at B- since the best spinner/SR setter i the tier (kabutops) shits on it most of the time.

Also Kabutops is S-rank material if you ask me, with its awesome variety, typing and stats, it can be almost anything and be good at it. Put it to A+ no question. (or S if real)

 

[Dillon~]

I don't agree with typh for S rank mainly because it can be walled by pokes, and even if lives a hit, there are too many priority moves that can kill it. It almost has to always run a choiced item because either it needs to outspeed, or needs to ensure a kill.

 

[Dentricos]

to B-

Dodrio is an incredibly powerful pokemon, with base 110 attack and STAB Brave Bird. The only things switching into CB Dodrio that well are some Steel and Rock type pokemon, which Dodrio can knock off to hinder or cripple for the rest of the match. Outside of those, however, Dodrio can devastate even some physical walls.
252 Atk Choice Band Dodrio Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 187-222 (57.8 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Dodrio Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Qwilfish: 151-178 (45.2 - 53.2%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Dodrio Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 166-196 (49.7 - 58.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
It also easily breaks things like Tangela, Vileplume, and Gurdurr of course, and easily 2hkoes Audino with even Frustration as well. It also has it's normal stab for when it doesn't need to be taking brave bird recoil, which hits most things hard enough anyways. Plus, it has quick attack, which is able to pick off and revenge weakened mons if needed. It faces competition from the better Swellow, who isn't choiced and has U-turn and better speed, but also isn't taking recoil every turn and doesn't get whittled down quite as easily, though SR and Brave Bird is of course able to take it's toll. It however hits slightly harder with Brave Bird than even Swellow's Facade.
252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 163-193 (48.8 - 57.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
It also ends up with a much more powerful quick attack
252 Atk Guts Swellow Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cryogonal: 181-214 (64.1 - 75.8%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Dodrio Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Cryogonal: 214-253 (75.8 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Dodrio even has other effective tricks over Swellow like Knock Off and Pursuit, and even has the ability to run a scarfed set and more gimmicky sets such as Sub Endeavor and WP Endure Flail.
TL;DR: The bird is strong, powerful, and has various niches.

Actually I run adament swellow with pursuit sometimes lol. It works great so don't hate the set XD

 

[Mistrals]

Might as well post some quick thoughts on some stuff since I've got nothing better to do rn.

Klinklang to A

Klinklang, despite being unable to touch Steelix and Ferroseed, is a pretty cool mon. Steel typing, STAB 100 bp move that breaks through sub/sturdy, one of the best set-up moves in the game, and solid stats make it a fearsome sweeper. While there are certainly stops to it, it's very capable of devastating an opponent's team. It's typing gives it many set-up chances, it's immune to intimidate, and substitute, frustration, and wild charge are all solid options to help it sweep. One of the better set-up sweepers in the tier.

Zangoose and Swellow to B+
Both of these normal types are incredibly powerful, carrying STAB priority and a 140 bp STAB move. Both enjoy getting into play for free via pivots. Both are on a timer. But that's where the similarities end. Zangoose, while not the fastest mon around, makes up for it in sheer power and coverage, 2hkoing almost every mom in the tier, making it an extremely destructive wallbreaker. Very little will ever switch into a Zangoose after toxic boost is activated, and nothing will switch into it twice. While it is frail, has only 90 speed, and is whittled down somewhat easily, the amount of devastation Zangoose can wreak is unparalleled. It might not be sweeping teams, but it's certainly providing great wallbreaking ability to help other teammates sweep.
Swellow, however, can certainly clean games up as well as heavily dent teams using it's amazing 125 speed and powerful STABs. Unlike Zangoose, it certainly has switch-ins, as most rock/steel pokemon can wall Swellow. However, access to U-turn allows Swellow to grab momentum against these mons and go into teammates who can break these mons and allow Swellow to run rampant through the rest of an opponent's team. Swellow is also incredibly easy to wear down between Stealth Rock weakness, Brave Bird and status damage, limiting how much it can do, but in this time it can quite possibly put a huge dent into an opponent's team. It even has the possiblity to run a specs set(and appearently pursuit).
TL;DR: Very powerful, devastating mons that can easily do lots of damage to an opponents team.

Hariyama to A
Hariyama is a really good mon that provides a lot of support and glue to teams. Need priority? Fire spam switch-in? Good fighting type? Status absorber? Special tank? Knock Off resist? All of these Hariyama does well. It's one of the best checks to fire types in the tier, works well with a lot of pokemon, and deals with many of the biggest threats in the tier. Best fighting type (and av user by far of course) in the tier. Gets cool coverage like Knock Off, Heavy Slam, EQ, and Ice Punch, powerful STAB in CC, dual priority with Bullet Punch and Fake Out, and two solid abilities in Guts/Thick Fat. Sucks that it's psychic weak but aside from that it's pretty great.

Qwilfish to A-
A really good spiker that can be a suicide lead or a switch-in to physical attacks like fighting moves + solid gatr check. Great ability, great typing, great support moves such as t-wave and taunt, solid speed, and can even do a cool sd set in rain. Awful special bulk, but aside from that it's pretty effective. Does it's job well and isn't dead weight at all outside of setting hazards.

Jynx to A-
Despite rock weakness, susceptibility to a lot of priority, and only decent speed, Jynx is still extremely threatening. Solid offensive typing and coverage plus immunity to water, access to Nasty Plot and a decent amount of item options like lo, scarf, specs, and sash make Jynx a very decent mon already. But then add in an amazing move in Lovely Kiss that can cripple an opponent easily, giving Jynx or other mons the ability to get easy set-up or being able to deal with a threat much more easily, and you get something amazing. With this move, Jynx can easily turn the tide of a battle. It can make an already decent mon a huge problem. (Also checking Gatr is really nice)

Vivillon to A-

As I just said, the ability to put something to sleep is devastating. But make this move now accurate with Vivillon's great ability CompoundEyes, and then have this same mon get accurate Hurricane and a great set-up move in Quiver Dance, and you'll find one of NU's better sweepers, even despite a 4x rock weakness. It can even use hp ground to at least heavily dent it's main checks/counters. It can easily do a lot of work to an opponent's team with STAB hurricane and sleep powder, and can certainly sweep many teams especially if it has defog/spin support.

Weezing to B+
One of the best physical walls in the tier with great support moves, great typing, and great ability defensively. Weezing also fits onto a lot of teams easily and can give a lot of support to them along with making many solid defensive cores with other mons. Only one weakness, too. Weezing is incredibly easy to slap onto many teams. To be continued lol, sorry if 3DS issues make me post multiple times.

 

[Mistrals]

Weezing continued

It's a great physical wall and switch into most of the tier's biggest physical threats. Gurdurr, Klinklang, SD Sceptile, Pawniard, or Golurk? No problem. Need a check to Gatr, Sawk, and BD Slurpuff, or something to take on Ferroseed and Steelix well? Weezing does all of those. Of course, it does have it's flaws, such as little offensive presence giving easy switches into mons like Magmortar or Xatu, but it's still very effective at what it does.

Steelix to B+
Speaking of mons that eat physical hits up, Steelix is another solid one, sporting an absurd 200 defense with steel typing, allowing it to check or counter many physical threats(gg belly drum slurpuff, klinklang, and pawniard), while also getting access to good support moves in stealth rock and roar. It also is able to maintain some offensive presence with STAB earthquake and iron head, and even sheer force I suppose. Also has sturdy which can always be nice to have, and a very solid defensive typing. A part of what can make stallier teams hard to break right here.

Lanturn to B+
Well, we need more than just physically defensive pokemon, so here's a specially defensive one. Lanturn has solid typing and abilities allowing it to check or counter a myriad of mons such as fire spammers, water types like Samurott, Gorebyss, Swanna and even Feraligatr, electric types such as Rotoms and Raichu, flying types like Mantine, Chatot, and Vivillon, and many more special attackers also struggle to beat Lanturn. Having moves like scald, t-wave, heal bell, discharge, and volt switch is nice too, though it does lack good recovery.

Finally onto more minor ones
Beheeyem to C+ rank

Beheeyem is incredibly powerful and also has a decent amount of options. High special attack paired with analytic makes it a devastating wallbreaker, while being slow and having access to trick room and nasty plot can make it a dangerous sweeper. It can even use items like expert belt and mind plate to boost power slightly, or lefties and even the dreaded assualt vest to increase longevity. It also gets decent offensive movepool, though notably lacking dazzling gleam or focus blast, with Energy Ball, Signal Beam, Thunderbolt, Psyshock, Psychic and HP Fighting all as valid options. It even gets trick. It does suffer competion from Mesprit, but has enough tricks of it's own to be worth using.

Miltank to C+ or maybe even B-

This cow is absurdly bulky, with access to great support moves like rocks, heal bell, and t-wave, reliable recovery, three great abilities in Scrappy, Thick Fat, and Sap Sipper, and 100 base speed. It's also decently unpredictable, as it can work physically or specially defensively, or even be offensive, and carry any of those abillities. Unlike say, Audino, you don't really know for sure what to expect when you see a Miltank due to it's decent versatility. It certainly has competition from Audino and Lickilicky, but definitely should not be overlooked.

Altaria to C

Decent fire spam counter, solid on stall teams and the like, has some cool tricks and good ability in Natural Cure. Not amazing, but decent.

Purugly to D+
It has a cool ability, but there are better defiant users and it's outclassed by Kanga. I guess it's got a good speed but there's really not much going for it. Easily walled/switched into and doesn't do as much as pretty much every C- mon.

Dragonair to D+
There's so little reason to use Dragonair now that fairies like Slurpuff and Granbull exist that stop Dragonair's good sets, and Slurpuff just sets up all over this unless it has like t-wave or iron tail(lol iron tail). Not utterly worthless but close tbh.

Simisage to D/D+ rank

So outclassed it's not even funny. Sceptile, Serperior, Lilligant, Leafeon, Victreebel, and even Exeggutor, Vileplume, and Gogoat can do all,the things this does better, so why even use this tbh.

Torkoal, Sliggoo, Lopunny, and Politoed to D+

Torkoal is a mediocre spinner, but being bulky and having cool stuff like rocks, yawn and lava plume is decent and I guess smashkoal is interesting too. Plus it beats ferroseed, which like none of the other spinners do. Best of the bad spinners, and no worse than Avalugg at spinning. Politoed can run cool specs (and av I suppose) and bulky sets and is hella more appealing than garbage like Dusclops or Throh.

Lopunny has cool trick klutz stuff to cripple opponents and stuff like t-wave and healing wish.

Sliggoo is absurdly specially bulky and is a passable answer to fire spam and vivillon and stuff.

Metang to D+/D rank

Metang isn't quite that bad, having okay typing and rocks, bullet punch, and meteor mash. It's not amazing, but more effective than a lot of the trash in D-(it's not on level of Wigglytuff or Armaldo or even Throh lol) I've seen it do some work before and had it do some work before in room tours, which is more than I can say for some of these mons.

(Seriously I need to do a third post for like 3 shitty d-rank mons lol)

 

[Mistrals]

Duosion to D-

Duosion is outclassed by like every psychic type in the tier and is like, the biggest knock off target in it too. Not much reason to use this when Uxie, Mesprit, Musharna, Beheeyem, Xatu, Grumpig, and even Exeggutor exist.

Throh to unlisted or at least D-
Throh also suffers from being outclassed as Poliwrath, Hariyama, Pangoro, Gurdurr, Sawk, Primeape and w/e other decent fighting types out there are so much better than it. It's also weak af and lacks a good STAB, only niche is having that garbage rest talk circle throw set with guts and/or not being weak to elec/grass/freeze dry and having that set. I've even tried out an av throh and it was incredibly worse than Hariyama in virtually every way.

Vigoroth and Tropius to D- from unlisted

Tropius has a cool sd set with harvest natural gift and some okay defensive sets. It's barely passable.

Vigoroth is bulky and has cool moves in slack off, taunt, and bulk up along with decent speed. Again, not amazing but it can do things.

Also, I'd like to suggest the idea of suggesting the more common awful trash mons in NU (Pikachu, Slaking, and Regigigas) to be specifically noted in E rank to clearly show newer or more inexperienced players how awful these pokemon are.


Also I agree with Serperior to C+, Kabutops and Mismagius to A+, and I disagree with Uxie to S, but I've got little to add/that is worth saying and I'm quite frankly too tired of posting my thoughts on NU mons to bother. Hopefully my thoughts start/have started some new discussions though.

 

[goldbacon98]

I love this list, although I feel that there could be a few changes. For example:

Primape from B- to B

This is because with a scarf or maybe even a band, it can out speed and KO plenty of pokemon in the tier. i.e. Close Combat on Sneasel (assuming you can outspeed with scarf), Zangoose, Linoone, and possibly even Kangaskhan and Liepard with proper investments if I am correct (but Kangaskhan may be able to take it with some bulk I believe)/Earthquake on Electivire, Barbaracle, and Arbok (and I think Pyroar)/Stone Edge on Archeops (again, scarf would help), Swellow, Accelgor (although I am not too sure as to the sets run on that, so I could be wrong), and Vivillon/Poison Jab to hit Slurpuff hard. I feel that it can effectively handle quite a few threats in the tier, and if it can't deal with it, it can U-turn. Additionally, it gets defiant, which is an amazing ability if your opponent is running Sticky Web/Intimidate or another status lowering move/ability. It isn't the most powerful however, as it can be set up on by sashed users. It may have terrible defenses, but with the proper items it can do a great job. It also has a a rather competitive speed, and decent attack in my opinion. Seriously, coming from base 95, the biggest threats are (although mentioned above) Swellow and Archeops, since they are fast flying types. Although I believe if it is a jolly Primeape with Max speed and scarf going agains adamant Swellow with max speed I think it may beat it out in speed, and It can definitely outspeed Archeops with a scarf unless the Archeops is jolly. It can either be a lead to hit hard early on or scout your opponents first pokemon, or a late game sweeper to finish off the weakened team. Personally, I prefer to use it for the latter, but it can be my lead sometimes. Back to the items, scarf is honestly the best item, which makes this a less versatile pokemon sadly. However, it still does great and has sweeping potential late game once all it's checks and counters are gone. I personally like band as well, if you know you are going up against a slower team. It can really brutalize pokemon like that. Sldo, I feel Primeape can run life orb sometimes, to give it that chance to switch moves up and be a bit more versatile in what it can hit. Finally, I feel it can run sash to counter other Primeapes. Overall, I think it hits hard and hits fast, can counter many offensive threats in the tier, and it can easily come in and finish the job in the game. Primeape should be B, because many of the big threats above it yet can also be beaten by many of the pokemon above it.

 

[soulgazer]

to C-

Delibird is our lord and savior. Yes it does have a shit typing, yes it is a Delibird, and yes it is destroyed by Crustle, but Delibird has multiple things that gives it a niche: Spikes, Destiny Bond, Rapid Spin, and the ability Insomnia. Delibird obviously doesn't always have the best lead matchup ever, but ey it's cute and can get at least 1 kill. Base 75 Speed is decent, and while Delibird does indeed have a LOT of competition from Qwilfish, it can Rapid Spin Stealth Rock against Archeops leads, which Qwilfish can't prevent. Delibird also doesn't give a single fuck about lead Vivillon, Jynx, or even people leading with Lilligant trying to prevent entry hazards by putting you to sleep since it has Insomnia AND Vital Spirit. Finally, while it does get wreck by Rock Blast users such as Crustle and Rhydon, it can just sacrifice itself with Destiny Bond and KO them, and if they decide to set up entry hazards instead, you can just Rapid Spin and set up Spikes.

 

[Brawlfest]

to C-

Delibird is our lord and savior. Yes it does have a shit typing, yes it is a Delibird, and yes it is destroyed by Crustle, but Delibird has multiple things that gives it a niche: Spikes, Destiny Bond, Rapid Spin, and the ability Insomnia. Delibird obviously doesn't always have the best lead matchup ever, but ey it's cute and can get at least 1 kill. Base 75 Speed is decent, and while Delibird does indeed have a LOT of competition from Qwilfish, it can Rapid Spin Stealth Rock against Archeops leads, which Qwilfish can't prevent. Delibird also doesn't give a single fuck about lead Vivillon, Jynx, or even people leading with Lilligant trying to prevent entry hazards by putting you to sleep since it has Insomnia AND Vital Spirit. Finally, while it does get wreck by Rock Blast users such as Crustle and Rhydon, it can just sacrifice itself with Destiny Bond and KO them, and if they decide to set up entry hazards instead, you can just Rapid Spin and set up Spikes.

Where is the credit for the record I told SG to post this.

But yeah 100% backing the Delibird for C- suggestion. If evidence is at all needed:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-172549073
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-172484199

Both clearly show that Delibird can not only successfully ensure its ability to set up hazards, but when played correctly it can guarantee a kill at some point in any given game, and can even be used to spin when needed to support a teammate in a sweep.

 

[Mistrals]

Primeape is B, hasn't been updated yet(see top of page 36)
Also I agree with Rhydon to A- and Delibird to C-

Now to actually contribute something worthwhile, more (actually this time) quick thoughts:

Bibarel to D-
This thing has some okay niches in simple and unaware. It can check some threats like Gatr and Klinklang.

Hippopotas to D+
Sand is decent, and Hippo is a core part of sand teams. Also can be surprisingly bulky.

Kingler to D-
Kingler just isn't good. Horrid HP and Sp. Def, only 75 speed, outclassed, no aqua jet or waterfall, etc. Only cool thing about Kingler is it hits like a truck, but you're so much better off using any other decent physical water type why bother.

Zebstrika to C-
It has niches, but in a lot of scenarios you're better off using E-vire or a rotom.

Golem to C+
There's so little reason to use this over all the other, better rock setters. Only niches over Rhydon are Sucker Punch and Sturdy, and stuff like Steelix and Carracosta are better sturdy users anyways.

Kangaskhan to A+
Kangaskhan is so good right now. Silk Scarf Double-edge hits like a truck, little switches into said double-edge, dual priority revenges lots of stuff, scrappy is amazing, 90 speed is solid, and it's even able to run a bulkier AV set to tank lots of hits and still be effective at revenging. One of the scarier mons in NU imo.

Vileplume to B
Most overrated mon in NU right here tbh. The meta has adapted incredibly well to it and it's so much easier to deal with than other grass types like Leafeon, Tangela, and Ferroseed, or other poison types like Weezing, Garbodor, and Qwilfish. Pretty easy to whittle down and isn't incredibly bulky either. Having weaknesses to common fire, ice, flying, and psychic attacks also sucks.

Leafeon to B+
Leafeon's a pretty solid pokemon with many decent options. Physical sweeper, hard hitting attacker, and physically defensive Leafeons all can be effective. High attack stat with 95 speed, as well as STAB Leaf Blade, and Natural Gift, Knock Off, Quick Attack, Bullet Seed, SD, and X-scissor give it decent options offensively, while access to Synthesis and solid physical bulk also make it effective defensively. It can even be a powerful sun sweeper using Chlorophyll. Resistances to Grass, Water, Electric and especially Ground are nice to have, and it's also a very solid Feraligatr check.

Rotom-Frost to B
The often overlooked Rotom form, Frosty has plenty of tricks that make it a very effective mon. While defensively it's certainly lacklustre, offensively it's possibly the best of the three NU forms, easily having the most power and best coverage. STAB boltbeam is amazing coverage, of course, and like the other Rotoms it's able to use Trick, Pain Split, Thunderbolt, Will-o-Wisp, and Volt Switch effectively, but unlike the other forms it has a powerful STAB in Blizzard, which while sadly lacking accuracy, still manages to hit hard. It's able to run both scarf as a revenge killer with utility or specs as a powerhouse, and even things like life orb, icicle plate and leftovers for a solid nonchoiced set with options like offensive SubSplit or just a solid offensive special attacker. Functions very well while having many niches and different weaknesses from the other Rotoms, though it's not quite as versatile.

Articuno to C-
Articuno just really isn't good in the current meta. 4x weak to rock with underwhelming speed and special attack, and awful defensive typing. Garbage defogger, not very good defensively or offensively, and outclassed by better ice types in many scenarios

Also agree with Magmortar to A-.

 

[Zenza]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and theres a few things that I would like to see changed as the metagame has evolved:

Rhydon from A to A-. The meta isnt very nice to it right now. Spikes teams are everywhere and Rhydon cant really fight them very well, and has no lefties to get them back. It can check a lot of threats, but most of them only need to predict once to get past Rhydon.

I don't really agree with your suggesting of dropping rhydon. The dual dancing set (one of the biggest threats to stall, and HO) doesn't really care too much about spikes. Regarding the rocks tank set, spikes aren't really a problem considering u can just lead with rhydon and OHKO the most common spikes leads in the tier (accelgor and crustle) with rock blast.

 

[Nabilla Benattia]

I'd like to nominate Liepard to move up to A rank for it's weather support set. Liepard is already a good mon in general, but on rain teams it really showcases its full usefulness, setting up weather extremely reliably and being able to encore setup sweepers, as well as support the team in other ways. Rain is an extremely dangerous playstyle, and rain teams are mostly possible because of the support it provides.