Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V3) (Rank changes are over until ORAS)

[Albacore]

Mew for S doesn't seem too far fetched honestly, it's a ridiculous pain for both offensive and defensive teams and can fill a large amount of roles. That being said, it's in exactly the same boat as Clefable IMO. While it is ridiculously easy to slap on basically any team, it also ends up spamming recovery to the point where it can get critted and just die off. Also, a couple of things just completely and utterly stop it. I's useless vs Taunt Talonflame and YZard for instance. It's also setup fodder for XZard. It's a very, very good mon, but it does require a little support so as to not end up a liability in some situations. That being said, this only applies to the stallbreaker set, If Life Orb EdgeQuake Mew becomes a thing I can see it in S, but right now, it's not quite at that level imo.

I've already discussed Garchomp, Hippo, Bisharp and Starmie, and I agree with Lando-T rise. YZard drop I really disagree with though, I've been using it recently and it's really, really good. Latis aren't really good answers to it unless they run recovery, Keldeo can't switch in, Greninja barely checks, and though Heatran is a bit of a problem, it's not too hard to play around (hint : pair it with Starmie). I don't really see how scarf Lando-T is much of a problem for it when it has to lock itself into Stone Edge to beat it, in fact YZard is one of the better switchins to Scarf Lando-T since it takes nothing from U-Turn and completely screws it if it goes for EQ, Superpower or Knock Off. YZard has one of the most spammable STAB moves in the metagame and is quite hard to switch into for most teams especially given the plummet in Chansey usage (btw run Flamethower it's better, you don't have to worry about missing or running out of PP), and I've also found it to provide a really good amount of defensive synergy too. SR weakeness isn't too big of a problem IMO because even if rocks are up, YZard can still find a few opportunities to come in for free and attack or even roost off, and rocks are just easier and easier to remove in this metagame now that Latis and Starmie are no longer liabilities against a few of teams. Oh, and it's also able to get rid of opposing Sun an rain. Of course, this goes both ways, but having something on your team that can completely halt an Excadrill or Kabutops sweep can be a lifesaver.

I made a big post about Ferrothron around a month ago and my stance on it still stands : for every thing you wall (and you do wall a lot of things don't get me wrong), there's something else out there that can abuse the hell out of you. MHera and Magezone are the two things which makes Ferro's life hell the most, and although they aren't on every team, when you do face them, Ferro can quickly become a liability. Every time you send Ferro out, you risk putting yourself in a bad position as a result. The meta is kinda geared towards screwing Ferrothorn atm, what with all the HP Fire Latis, the Superpower Scizors, and the Spikes Greninjas. A lot of the time you kinda have to run Ferrothorn, but it puts such a strain on teambulding that I oftne feel really, really reluctant to use it, because if you do you have to worry even more about a bunch of other things.

Also, nominating Celebi for A-.
Celebi is just ridiculously underrated atm. It's already a solid B+ rank for its defensive capabilities, however I've recently tried an offensive LO set and oml it's so good. One of the biggest problems with Celebi is its passiveness, but the offensive set fixes that in a big way. LO boosted Leaf Storm hits stupidly hard (it OHKOs AV Azu and scarf TTar after rocks lol), and it's also is one of the best Heatan lures no-one expects to get smacked by Earth Power. In fact it basically decimates VenuTran, not just that, but actually luring each member of the core quite well. It also keeps a lot of the defensive aspects of Celebi like switching into Keldeo and Rotom-W. Its natural bulk is still impressive : for example, with a spread of 96 HP / 252 SpA / 160 Speed, it still barely takes one Ice Punch from Mega-Medicham and OHKOs it back. (though it does go down in the process). It may seem like it has a lot of competition from Latios and Latias but it does have a lot of advantages over them, namely, being able to fit Recover a lot more easily, being a far better Azumarill check, dealing with Rotom-W and Keldeo slightly better thanks to Natural Cure, ruining Suicune and Manaphy, hard walling Breloom, checking MGyara, faring much better vs Excadrill, literally just beating Rain, etc..).
What really sells this set is the surprise factor, which lets you destroy unsuspecting Pokemon who think they can beat you. For instance, MHera will usually stay in and Pin Missile, just to take a Psychic to the face. Bisharp typically Knocks Off or Pursuits instead of Sucker Punching and just gets Earth Powered. It even has the option to lure Ferro and Skarmory if it can fit in HP Fire. You can also run Nasty Plot over Recover but I don't recommend it because you can never actually set it up.
Celebi is just a really versatile Pokemon, and you don't really know for sure if it's going to stall you out, try to pass boosts, or nuke the crap out of you. It fits on all kinds of playstyles and checks a ton of big threats no matter what it runs and I feel like it would be much more fitting in A-.

 

[Immortal]

What I mean is that it has a very hard time coming in safely becuase or SR, and most consistent Stealth Rockers can take on Excadrill and Lati@s trying to remove the hazards. Examples here include Garchomp, Ferrothorn and Balloon Heatran, all whom are common and trouble teams with CharY greatly. Once CharY comes in though, almost every team has an one-time switchin to it, which is commonly Lati@s. If CharY decides to attack it does ~40-50 depening on which Lati, then it gets forced out. This is the problem. Even though you may trap Lati@s with TTar or Bisharp, then remove hazards with your hazard remover, you've spent a lot of turns and Pokemon just to make CharY able to come in once more. The Pokemon I listed (Keldeo, Greninja, Scarf Tyranitar, Scarf Lanorus-T) are pokes that are able to force it out after a sack, not take it on at full health 1v1 (at least not the former two). Becuase these are so common, is it really worth running CharY when it requires so much in order to break succesfully? I think it's not as good as it was.

In my opinion it definitely is, Fireblast is just so spammable, 100 base speed is solid fo a wall breaker, it has real bulk and reliable recovery. SR can be a pain and does take turns to get rid of but the key is keeping the momentum. Charizard Y has been amazing for me recently and while it can be a bit of a high risk high reward mon I think it still deserves A+

 

[kabbes]

Right, Lanturn. Discussed a few pages back and I said I'd check it out, which I have. The recommended set was the NU pivot but messing about with slots 3 and 4.

I've used it a bit now and on the plus side, it's a lot of fun. If the opponent is running any kind of Volt Switch, it utterly ruins their day.

Of all the slots 3 and 4, I had most fun with ParaFuse:

Lantern (R U Lucky?) @ Leftovers
Calm nature
Evs: 40 Hp, 252 Def, 216 SpD

Scald
Volt Switch
Thunder Wave
Confuse Ray

Luck alone can turn the match with this little bastard. I bred one and used it in random battles in-game too and there is nothing funnier than ParaFusing a M-Kangaskhan during its PUPs and then watching it kill itself. It's a bulky little bugger and can take its lumps when the opponent gets lucky, whilst laughing in its face when it hurts itself or does nothing.

Of course, ParaFuse is fun but it's hardly Grade A strategy.

Trouble is that unless you get volt absorbs, it gets worn down really quickly. I ran other versions and lefties or not, it's not lasting more than 4 neutral hits from most things, which really limits its pivoting ability (and led me to try ParaFuse instead). Sleep Talk can work, but it's a hell of a momentum killer. So against a team that doesn't rely on electric attacks, it pivots a few times, which is nice, and then it dies, which is not. To me, this is not worth a C rating.

I don't want to give up on the fishy though, because I have grown to love it. So I'm trying the same spread with Specs instead and Ice Beam/Discharge in the final slots. (Not that I can see either of those two moves getting much use, frankly.) Anyway, my hope is that a Volt Switch coming off a 282 attack will do more than scratch the opponent, because it does fuck all off a 188. It'll still only live 3 or 4 neutral attacks but maybe it'll actually hurt the opponent a bit too. We'll see.

 

[Alfalfa]

Right, Lanturn. Discussed a few pages back and I said I'd check it out, which I have. The recommended set was the NU pivot but messing about with slots 3 and 4.

I've used it a bit now and on the plus side, it's a lot of fun. If the opponent is running any kind of Volt Switch, it utterly ruins their day.

Of all the slots 3 and 4, I had most fun with ParaFuse:

Lantern (R U Lucky?) @ Leftovers
Calm nature
Evs: 40 Hp, 252 Def, 216 SpD

Scald
Volt Switch
Thunder Wave
Confuse Ray

Luck alone can turn the match with this little bastard. I bred one and used it in random battles in-game too and there is nothing funnier than ParaFusing a M-Kangaskhan during its PUPs and then watching it kill itself. It's a bulky little bugger and can take its lumps when the opponent gets lucky, whilst laughing in its face when it hurts itself or does nothing.

Of course, ParaFuse is fun but it's hardly Grade A strategy.

Trouble is that unless you get volt absorbs, it gets worn down really quickly. I ran other versions and lefties or not, it's not lasting more than 4 neutral hits from most things, which really limits its pivoting ability (and led me to try ParaFuse instead). Sleep Talk can work, but it's a hell of a momentum killer. So against a team that doesn't rely on electric attacks, it pivots a few times, which is nice, and then it dies, which is not. To me, this is not worth a C rating.

I don't want to give up on the fishy though, because I have grown to love it. So I'm trying the same spread with Specs instead and Ice Beam/Discharge in the final slots. (Not that I can see either of those two moves getting much use, frankly.) Anyway, my hope is that a Volt Switch coming off a 282 attack will do more than scratch the opponent, because it does fuck all off a 188. It'll still only live 3 or 4 neutral attacks but maybe it'll actually hurt the opponent a bit too. We'll see.

Specs is weak coming off base 76 Special Attack. Just stick with Scald / Volt Switch / Heal Bell / Thunder Wave or Discharge.

 

[kabbes]

It's too passive with no recovery to sit there and use heal bell and piss-weak attacks. Thunder Wave is OK but in practice it works against the slow Volt Switch that is kind of the point of the pivot.

Base 76 is weak, but with specs, at least volting will hurt a *little* bit,

Failing that, I'm going to have to nominate Lanturn back to C- again at most, because the standard pivot set just doesn't really do anything useful if the opponent isn't running electric attacks.

 

[Clone]

It's too passive with no recovery to sit there and use heal bell and piss-weak attacks. Thunder Wave is OK but in practice it works against the slow Volt Switch that is kind of the point of the pivot.

Base 76 is weak, but with specs, at least volting will hurt a *little* bit,

Failing that, I'm going to have to nominate Lanturn back to C- again at most, because the standard pivot set just doesn't really do anything useful if the opponent isn't running electric attacks.

Lanturns job isnt to deal out damage. Lanturns job is to stop Volt Switch users in their tracks and either regain momentum with her own Volt Switch, or to spread around burns with Scald. And given the abundance of Volt Switch users and Electric types in the tier, Lanturn has more recovery options that youd think. Lanturn is fine in C.

 

[kabbes]

Yes I know what the point is. But if the opponent isn't using Volt Switch, Lanturn becomes dead weight.

 

[Taliheim]

I'm not going to make a big post because no energy, but I should point out that

Yes I know what the point is. But if the opponent isn't using Volt Switch, Lanturn becomes dead weight.

Not just volt Switch - any Electric-type move. And most teams run at least one Electric-type move. So while it may not be as useful against teams w/o volt switch, it's most likely not completely dead weight.

 

[Kyuzeth]

Just wanting to make something clear in regard to a previous post on moving Mega Gardevoir down again just because Thundurus-I became A+, since there's just so much wrong with that claim.

Thundurus-I is A+ because it's an all-around fantastic Pokémon, just much less than it used to be. That's why it's dropped. It's still Thundurus-I, the best Electric-type of Gen VI OU, but it's simply not as good as it was before.
Mega Gardevoir is A+ due to the current metagame circumstances being extremely favorable to it. With the rise in Latios and Steel-types, as well as being supported extremely well by Magnezone, Mega Gardevoir has gained a really good partner that's become better itself, too, and the combination of these three along with a Dragon-type is absolutely devastating. The metagame is just extremely kind to Mega Gardevoir, that's why it's A+.
Both of these Pokémon have their own valid reasons to be A+.

Of course, experienced players are able to see not every Pokémon in a single rank is exactly equally good. There's still obvious nuances; Thundurus-I, Mega Heracross and Azumarill are at the top of A+, while stuff like Mega Gardevoir and Heatran are a bit lower in A+. I'm not suggesting splitting up the sub-ranks, but I really felt like getting this out of the way.

 

[kabbes]

I'm not going to make a big post because no energy, but I should point out that

Not just volt Switch - any Electric-type move. And most teams run at least one Electric-type move. So while it may not be as useful against teams w/o volt switch, it's most likely not completely dead weight.

Possibly. But it's competing with ground types for that role, and there are some good ones.

Anyway, after an evening's play, I found that the specs set worked surprisingly well. Bulk plus the ability to actually cause a modicum of pain. It certainly worked better for me than leftovers did.

 

[Jukain]

I fully support moving Lanturn back down to C- (yes, I have used Lanturn). Lanturn has two main issues: shitty physical bulk and no recovery outside RestTalk (which after some testing I've found to be the best set, but that's not a positive). Its appalling physical bulk means it's hammered by pretty much anything physical, even Talonflame to give you an idea. Its attacks are weak, and I don't think Scald makes it better than Rotom-W, because you don't have time to stay in and fish for a burn like other bulky Waters, so WoW as a move is superior for the pivot role. Lanturn's niche is basically Rotom-W that beats Electrics and Greninja but is worse vs everything else and is heavily subject to being turned into a liability. It's being way, way overhyped. I also find it hilarious that it's above Slowking, which is an underrated bulky Water option that actually has a lot of legitimate uses in the tier, including being the best Keldeo counter in existence.

 

[alexwolf]

I fully support moving Lanturn back down to C- (yes, I have used Lanturn). Lanturn has two main issues: shitty physical bulk and no recovery outside RestTalk (which after some testing I've found to be the best set, but that's not a positive). Its appalling physical bulk means it's hammered by pretty much anything physical, even Talonflame to give you an idea. Its attacks are weak, and I don't think Scald makes it better than Rotom-W, because you don't have time to stay in and fish for a burn like other bulky Waters, so WoW as a move is superior for the pivot role. Lanturn's niche is basically Rotom-W that beats Electrics and Greninja but is worse vs everything else and is heavily subject to being turned into a liability. It's being way, way overhyped. I also find it hilarious that it's above Slowking, which is an underrated bulky Water option that actually has a lot of legitimate uses in the tier, including being the best Keldeo counter in existence.

With 152 HP / 252 Def / 104 SpD and a Bold nature, Lanturn has the same physical bulk as 252 HP / 212 Def+ Rotom-W, and around 20% more special bulk, so low physical bulk is certainly not the issue. Same goes for reliable recovery, as Rotom-W lacks it too, as Pain Split is extremely easy to get around, even more so than RestTalk actually. Lanturn's biggest issues in comparison to Rotom-W are Ground weakness, lack of a reliable way to burn the stuff you check, and lower Speed, which means that you are outsped by Pokemon such as Azumarill, Heatran, defensive Mega Scizor, and Mega Venusaur, all Pokemon that Rotom-W can outspeed, and either hurt badly or use Volt Switch to go to a more favorable match up. Lack of a reliable way to burn stuff and Ground weaknesses are the biggest problems though, as you can't really check Pokemon such as Azumarill and Mega Scizor without WoW. I do not care where Lanturn ends up, i just wanted to point out that Lanturn's overall bulk is superior to Rotom-W's.

 

[Jukain]

With 152 HP / 252 Def / 104 SpD and a Bold nature, Lanturn has the same physical bulk as 252 HP / 212 Def+ Rotom-W, and around 20% more special bulk, so low physical bulk is certainly not the issue. Same goes for reliable recovery, as Rotom-W lacks it too, as Pain Split is extremely easy to get around, even more so than RestTalk actually. Lanturn's biggest issues in comparison to Rotom-W are Ground weakness, lack of a reliable way to burn the stuff you check, and lower Speed, which means that you are outsped by Pokemon such as Azumarill, Heatran, defensive Mega Scizor, and Mega Venusaur, all Pokemon that Rotom-W can outspeed, and either hurt badly or use Volt Switch to go to a more favorable match up. Lack of a reliable way to burn stuff and Ground weaknesses are the biggest problems though, as you can't really check Pokemon such as Azumarill and Mega Scizor without WoW. I do not care where Lanturn ends up, i just wanted to point out that Lanturn's overall bulk is superior to Rotom-W's.

Yeah, see here's the problem with that.

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hidden Power Grass vs. 152 HP / 104 SpD Lanturn: 242-283 (56.4 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The idea is that Lanturn is supposed to be able to beat Greninja very well, and that is not acceptable at all. Even Grass Knot comes hella close to 2HKOing with this spread. If it doesn't beat Greninja, then why am I not just using Rotom-W.

Pain Split is certainly better recovery for the pivot nature of Rotom-W/Lanturn, and I found a bunch of times in my testing where Pain Split would have been heavily appreciated. RestTalk is a huge momentum loss, and that's a problem.

All of the things you mentioned are definitely other major problems that support moving it down.

 

[alexwolf]

Yeah, see here's the problem with that.

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hidden Power Grass vs. 152 HP / 104 SpD Lanturn: 242-283 (56.4 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The idea is that Lanturn is supposed to be able to beat Greninja very well, and that is not acceptable at all. Even Grass Knot comes hella close to 2HKOing with this spread. If it doesn't beat Greninja, then why am I not just using Rotom-W.

Pain Split is certainly better recovery for the pivot nature of Rotom-W/Lanturn, and I found a bunch of times in my testing where Pain Split would have been heavily appreciated. RestTalk is a huge momentum loss, and that's a problem.

All of the things you mentioned are definitely other major problems that support moving it down.

HP Grass is not such a good option on Greninja, because Grass Knot is better, aside from hitting Rotom-W, which Dark Pulse already 2HKOes after SR. And Grass Knot is doing to the set i mentioned as much as Dark Pulse is doing to 252 HP Rotom-W, so no difference here, really. Imo, the biggest reason to use Lanturn is beating Electric-types including Rotom-W, which is pretty big on itself, as well as provide Heal Bell support, which is handy for some kinds of teams.

 

[Alfalfa]

Yeah, see here's the problem with that.

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hidden Power Grass vs. 152 HP / 104 SpD Lanturn: 242-283 (56.4 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The idea is that Lanturn is supposed to be able to beat Greninja very well, and that is not acceptable at all. Even Grass Knot comes hella close to 2HKOing with this spread. If it doesn't beat Greninja, then why am I not just using Rotom-W.

Pain Split is certainly better recovery for the pivot nature of Rotom-W/Lanturn, and I found a bunch of times in my testing where Pain Split would have been heavily appreciated. RestTalk is a huge momentum loss, and that's a problem.

All of the things you mentioned are definitely other major problems that support moving it down.

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hidden Power Grass vs. 164 HP / 216+ SpD Lanturn: 195-229 (45.1 - 53%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hidden Power Grass vs. 164 HP / 216+ SpD Lanturn: 195-229 (45.1 - 53%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lanturn: 187-221 (41.1 - 48.6%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Lanturn still gets hit hard by Greninja even with maximum HP maximum Special Defense.

 

[Srn]

Yeah, see here's the problem with that.

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Hidden Power Grass vs. 152 HP / 104 SpD Lanturn: 242-283 (56.4 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The idea is that Lanturn is supposed to be able to beat Greninja very well, and that is not acceptable at all. Even Grass Knot comes hella close to 2HKOing with this spread. If it doesn't beat Greninja, then why am I not just using Rotom-W.

Pain Split is certainly better recovery for the pivot nature of Rotom-W/Lanturn, and I found a bunch of times in my testing where Pain Split would have been heavily appreciated. RestTalk is a huge momentum loss, and that's a problem.

All of the things you mentioned are definitely other major problems that support moving it down.

Imo the greatest advantage of using lanturn is how easily you stop mega manectric, which you can never do wiht a rotom-w. Honestly the moment you see a lanturn on the opposing side of the field your mega man is immediately a complete liability ngl. its best use at that point is intimidate and double out, whihc is pathetic. The Lanturn handles electrics and rotom-w handles grounds, pick and choose what you want to cover :]

 

[I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM]

alright regarding the lucario change:
i think lucario kind of benefits from this meta. for one, it's double priority set(which is actually p legit)can beat the rising dark types and ghost type, and it also nets some advantages such as koing clefable, gengar and tyranitar after some residual damage(all 3 take 90~) as well as completely beating terrakion. at its job as a late game sweeper, it is one of the best considering its priority. and for the meta helping lucario, it really appreciates the dark types and ghost type because they beat fat psychics which otherwise plague it. and if we look at b, we have some similarly good late game cleaners that require about the same amount of support. its late at night, so i will add to this when i'm not as sleepy.


something tells me I'm gonna get screamed at for this nom;;

 

[kabbes]

pretty much every volt switcher/electric user in the tier carries either hp ice or something that beats the prominent ground types (see mega man/raikou/rotom-w/tbolt latios), so it's usually riskier to switch a ground type in on one of those mons than it is to switch lanturn in because lanturn gives no shits about anything any of them bar latios can throw at it

Scarf mold breaker Excadrill will switch into an electric attack or ice coverage quite happily and obliterate any of those Mons.

Look, I get that Lanturn is an electric's worst nightmare. But it does fuck all else, so is that really worth a whole slot? I'm not that convinced. Having it above Rotom-H, for example, seems like a travesty.

 

[QuickBH]

Scarf mold breaker Excadrill will switch into an electric attack or ice coverage quite happily and obliterate any of those Mons.

Scarf Mold Breaker Excadrill can only check Rotom-W, Mega Manectric, and Thundurus, and is way more offensive than Lanturn and isn't the best defensively. I don't see how they compare well at all.

 

[Albacore]

Even if you think Lanturn is deadweight outside of walling Electrics (which it isn't : it still beats other special attackers like Greninja, and Talonflame, provides Heal Bell support, and generally just pivots around), the fact that it completely and utterly walls all of them makes worth a moveslot IMO. I mean, Doublade is deadweight outside of countering a handful of mons. Can it find a spot on teams? Absolutely, since what it beats is very threatening. And while Volt Switchers aren't a huge offensive threat, not having to deal with their constant pivoting is really nice. When I see any electric type in team preview, I know it's literally going to do nothing the entire match, and being able to ensure that can defenitely be worth a moveslot IMO.

 

[kabbes]

If that's what its main purpose is, then, are you not better off running something that helps do some actual damage, like specs, rather than something that pretty much helps nothing, like leftovers?

I'm using Lanturn a lot at the moment and despite my words here, I do quite like it (especially as I do actually have an electric weakness elsewhere). But in practice, I'm finding specs waaaay better than lefties. A specs pivot hits hard enough to put a lot of things in kill range for what comes in next. Without specs, it's like I needn't have bothered hitting it at all.

 

[HolyAvatar]

If that's what its main purpose is, then, are you not better off running something that helps do some actual damage, like specs, rather than something that pretty much helps nothing, like leftovers?

I'm using Lanturn a lot at the moment and despite my words here, I do quite like it (especially as I do actually have an electric weakness elsewhere). But in practice, I'm finding specs waaaay better than lefties. A specs pivot hits hard enough to put a lot of things in kill range for what comes in next. Without specs, it's like I needn't have bothered hitting it at all.

I find that with specs you're giving one his traits that actually give it a niche: heal bell.
Heal bell is so good for bulky offense or simply when you pack something like AV azumarill. It can now actually try to switch into scalds with much less risk of becoming useless for the rest of the game.
I don't know if it is C worthy though. Depends on the team, I guess and a slow volt switch is not always bad as it lets you bring in frail things like greninja without a sack.

On a side note, with all the scar lando-t running around, I found that scarf rotom-w makes for a nice surprise (also applies to greninja, keldeo, terrakion and mega pinsir). It also doesn't care about priority T-wave so that's a huge plus for a scarfer.

 

[kabbes]

I find that with specs you're giving one his traits that actually give it a niche: heal bell.
Heal bell is so good for bulky offense or simply when you pack something like AV azumarill. It can now actually try to switch into scalds with much less risk of becoming useless for the rest of the game.

True. Even the electric plate (or whatever that item is called) will be more useful than healing 6% though, if that's what you want. Leftovers just doesn't help longevity at all for Lanturn in OU. Or at least, that's what I have found.

 

[Of Moose & Men]

If that's what its main purpose is, then, are you not better off running something that helps do some actual damage, like specs, rather than something that pretty much helps nothing, like leftovers?

I'm using Lanturn a lot at the moment and despite my words here, I do quite like it (especially as I do actually have an electric weakness elsewhere). But in practice, I'm finding specs waaaay better than lefties. A specs pivot hits hard enough to put a lot of things in kill range for what comes in next. Without specs, it's like I needn't have bothered hitting it at all.

The thing is, theres not much of a reason to use specs over the lefties set. If the problem is electric types, there are better pokes that can abuse the role of a volt switch stopper + special damage dealer. His role is something nothing else can do. Stop volt switch abuse, and support with heal bell. Something rotom can't do. Putting specs on it is just asking for a better special attacker to take its place. Its role is a situational one, but it's good at performing it. Specs Lanturn doesn't have much of a place in OU when its heal bell set works best in this environment.

 

[kabbes]

The thing is, theres not much of a reason to use specs over the lefties set. If the problem is electric types, there are better pokes that can abuse the role of a volt switch stopper + special damage dealer. His role is something nothing else can do. Stop volt switch abuse, and support with heal bell. Something rotom can't do. Putting specs on it is just asking for a better special attacker to take its place. Its role is a situational one, but it's good at performing it. Specs Lanturn doesn't have much of a place in OU when its heal bell set works best in this environment.

I'm not sure if I explained myself properly. I'm suggesting you stick with the heal bell defensive pivot set, but simply stick something other than leftovers on it, because in practice the leftovers themselves don't actually seem to achieve anything. I have found that some specs work surprisingly well, creating some actual damage in the switch. But you could run something else instead (lum berry?) if that works for you. Just because something is fat, doesn't mean leftovers must be the best item choice, basically. You have to look at what the item practically achieves.

It's a minor point, mind. I still come back to C- as a reasonable rating. That puts it level with Rotom-H, which is another strong situational pivot.