Other Rain In OU

[silver97]

I meant the stats

i think the stats are not "officially" confirmed, but i think they are right because they took them from the demo released in japan

 

[RNGnoob]

kabutops will still have its role on rain teams because of access to swords dance, priority, slightly better power and the fact that it doesn't take the mega slot, on the other hand mega swampert has better typing and very good bulk.


POP isn't very good, i don't know if it is worth using it, waterfall and eq are staples because they are STABs, then it can run ice punch, stone edge for edgequake coverage, superpower or even carry stealth rock. i hope it gets something new in oras with tutor moves, if it had access to swords dance it would be really really threatening, more than it is right now

Swampert doesn't learn SD...

 

[N64Gary]

kabutops will still have its role on rain teams because of access to swords dance, priority, slightly better power and the fact that it doesn't take the mega slot, on the other hand mega swampert has better typing and very good bulk.


POP isn't very good, i don't know if it is worth using it, waterfall and eq are staples because they are STABs, then it can run ice punch, stone edge for edgequake coverage, superpower or even carry stealth rock. i hope it gets something new in oras with tutor moves, if it had access to swords dance it would be really really threatening, more than it is right now

PUP will be good on it but i think theres alot better cuz hes already has awsome stats, too bad hes going uber

 

[N64Gary]

I meant the stats

idk man

 

[N64Gary]

Nice post Jin White! Answers to those two pokemon are imo at the heart of every teambuilding process for rain. It depends a lot on what type of team structure you're seeking, but given the 'they don't necessarily need to switch in' part of your post I'm guessing you lean more toward hyper/heavy offense, which imo is the strongest rain style. Definitely consider s_aman's Tornadus-T suggestion. LO + Regenerator + Hurricane + U-turn makes it a nightmare for Ferro and Venusaur, even against teams that pack 'counters' to it since it's so fucking fast it can almost always safely U-turn into Kingdra/Tops/Star and let you start laying waste. It makes a great switch-in to Chansey, Ferro and usually Venu (doesn't like taking sludge bomb, but you get a free Hurricane + U-turn so you gain a lot back regardless), while conveniently also checking Keldeo, Scizor, Tyranitar and (with Taunt+Turn) gives you set-up chances against many defensive mons. I recommend Taunt or 4-Attacks (Focus Blast | Superpower and Knock Off) highly over Rain Dance, since with Deo gone IMHO there really isn't ANY pokemon worth using as a secondary setter. It can definitely prove useful, but Toed has some surprising utility & durability on its own and it's usually better long term for you to just be able to keep it alive and double switching around rather than compromise the item and utility of another mon (whom you may end up saccing in the process) for a more limited rain dance. Torn-T also makes a half-decent lead against Sashloom, since you can U-turn off its sash and choose a sleeper, while Breloom has a field day of making you guess/play safe against Politoed leads.

The core I use (see previous page) of Celebi + Torn-T pressures Venusaur, Ferrothorn (free rocks for Celebi) and Breloom very well, and while a well-played Ferro can be troublesome it can't actually switch into Omastar, so it usually eventually ends up getting broken. UNFORTUNATELY this opens you up somewhat to Thundurus-I (Celebi handles all right, but Knock off, NP HP Ice or LO HP Fly = owned Celebi, and all those probably make up +50% of Thundy in higher play). Haven't found the answer for this yet aside from hoping to net a SD with Tops or trying to push it around with rocks.

Slightly unrelated, but I REALLY wish Mamo was as useful on HO rain as the SMOG article made it sound lol. It's a great SR lead for sure, and smacks around Breloom and the genies just fine, but it gets owned just as hard as other rain members by Ferro/Venu/Rotom, so idgi

As for some of your other considered mons:
-Keldeo is obviously fine and great on Rain (don't use with 2 SSers IMO), especially as it eases its using ebelt/LO or even Scarf if you want. But if you ever manage to hit a Ferrothorn with Secret Sword without successfully bluffing Specs first you're a better player than I am haha.
-I never considered Heracross, it would certainly help the matchup vs stall! Furthermore it baits the hell out of Talonflame, which is great for Kabutops, though be careful of WoW 'Flame and Pinsir, both of whom can own tops on the switch. Heracross doesn't like facing offense much at all, and its frequently being forced out is a problem for teams lacking solid defensive synergy, but when healthy it handily puts Thundurus down too so that's always nice. Seems niche but I'll definitely be testing him.
-Thundy can do so much for rain it's not even funny. Unfortunately (i mean not really but you know) what it wants to do most is check/lure venusaur/ferrothorn/ttar, so you REALLY want both of Fighting/Flying coverage and LO. I suppose NP & Thunder would work great in the last slots (and make you need LO much less), since full coverage NP thundy is a pretty rare sight and can net you some sneaky KOs while your opponent scrambles for a check.
-IMO Scizor and Mawile are about tied in usefulness for Rain. SD Scizor just forces so much shit around and is one of the only usable pivots for HO. Unfortunately its countered really easily, and while it sets up on Ferrothorn and Chansey it always loses to something on a team with those two in it. Mawile has negligible defensive use in comparison (hail almighty M-Zor bulk), but all its switch-ins are begging to be crushed by Swift Swimmers, so there's nice opportunity for double switching. And as Fourth Inversion said, Iron Head lets you smack down unsuspecting Venusaur, which is great. You kind of have to choose between subpunch and SD depending on if you want to beat Ferro/Venu, but still it handles them in a more offensive way than Scizor (altho not countering Aegis/Azumarill is a letdown) so I'll give him another try on my team.
-Greninja imo is bad for rain teams. It's a weird case of a great pokemon who in this case is outclassed by the thing it normally makes obscure: Starmie. For 99% of purposes Starmie and Greninja share a speed tier, and while Greninja can handle Aegislash better Starmie has the ability to dish out stronger (analytic!) Hydro Pumps while boasting a stronger Psychic stab to kill Venusaur and Thunder to get Azumarill out of the way for good. Normally where ninja would shine here is having HP Fire to break Ferrothorn, obviously that's not helpful in rain. Oh, and motherfucking Rapid Spin. If you wanna feel like a real techy Pokemon master you can run Natural Cure and lure the hell out of Thundurus's TW, which works 100% of the time and is awesome but obviously situational. Basically Starmie is awesum

Others were discussing briefly Venusaur and Raikou. Venusaur is good on rain balance and decent on offense, but overall I feel it's outclassed. It's an okay pivot with EQ and Sleep Powder, but being unable to effectively use HP Fire or Synthesis hurts it A LOT. It's best use is coming in on Rotom/Breloom/Azumarill, but it doesn't have SR or much to take advantage of this and as we know a burned offensive venusaur in rain is basically useless. The greatest thing about Venusaur in rain though is the effective resistance to fire lol, there's nothing better than seeing "It's super effective!" when Lave Plume nudges you for 10%.

Raikou on the other hand is very good. Just please, I've tried to make it work, but don't use the Aura Sphere/Weather Ball wallbreaker set. 9 times out of 10 standard Raikou will be better for you. It needs LO not to be pitifully weak, and the hit to speed and SpDef from the Rash nature makes it totally unable to check the things you need Raikou to check in the first place. Let's face it, GFreak teased us with what could have been an awesome rain breaker but ruined it for all of us ;.;

EDIT: Kyu-B is another mon you've probably seen on rain teams. Although its usefulness has diminished ever so slightly with the decline in Rotom-W's omnipresence, I suspect it'll be back with a vengeance now that Conkeldurr is on the way out and CroCune/Phy are making a mess out of the unprepared tier. Sub/Ice Beam/Fusion Bolt/Outrage|Earth Power|Iron Head beats up common defensive cores, especially Mega Venusaur, and weakens Ferrothorn for your sweepers nicely. It's matchup v Thundurus is double-edged for rain, since many thundurus run Focus Blast and that pretty much makes or breaks Kyu-B's value in the match, requiring unfortunate scouting, but against defense and balanced the thing still wreaks havoc. Pairs v nicely with Mawile/Zor to check faster dragons and fighting types.

holy cow man, did u go though the whole pokedex here??

 

[silver97]

Swampert doesn't learn SD...

that's exactly what i said in my post -.-

 

[Hydrium]

Swampert doesn't learn SD...

Way to not actually read the post.

 

[silver97]

oh god https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd...._=1422069073_7c6f6862658262594c3171eea6e066da i don't know if it is hack or something else, but here there are 2 megas used at the same time O.O

 

[MilkyWay]

oh god https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd...._=1422069073_7c6f6862658262594c3171eea6e066da i don't know if it is hack or something else, but here there are 2 megas used at the same time O.O

If i had to guess based soley on that video i would say its a double battle between the main character, the alpha boss, and the main characters friend or something. This is because both sharpedo and camerupt are on the opposing team. Technically, there are 4 trainers so i guess thats sort of a loop hole to the "one mega per team"...?

 

[silver97]

If i had to guess based soley on that video i would say its a double battle between the main character, the alpha boss, and the main characters friend or something. This is because both sharpedo and camerupt are on the opposing team. Technically, there are 4 trainers so i guess thats sort of a loop hole to the "one mega per team"...?

lol i posted this in the wrong thread, and anyway probably metagross is steven's and mega swampert is the main character's so yes i was too hasty

 

[Sablenite]

lets also make rain cure status, making it even more op than it should be xD.

Rain, If anything should make solerbeam take 3 turns.

 

[silver97]

Rain, If anything should make solerbeam take 3 turns.

nah, it means giving the opponent 2 free turns, it is really too much

 

[Flamebot]

Guys, I've been using Specs Omastar . I know it's a Walkbreaker and all, but for me atleast, it has been sweeping and cleaning teams really well. Is it fine that I'm using it like this? I know Kabutops is a better sweeper, but this things immediate Power can break unprepared teams in half, and it's not worn down as easy imo because of no Life orb.

 

[FurryFurret]

I was thinking for my rotation rain team of doing mega swampert and dragalge. Though I'm really debating between dragalge and goodra(i love the hydration sets, though sap sipper would help with grass types and I could run a physical.) This will have a politoed btw. The last three slots depend on whether I go with dragalge or goodra.
what do y'all think?

 

[New Light]

I was thinking for my rotation rain team of doing mega swampert and dragalge. Though I'm really debating between dragalge and goodra(i love the hydration sets, though sap sipper would help with grass types and I could run a physical.) This will have a politoed btw. The last three slots depend on whether I go with dragalge or goodra.
what do y'all think?

Definitely Goodra. I ran it on my rain team for quite a while. It forms a nice core with Skarmory. I wouldn't recommend Sap Sipper though. If you're worried about Grass types, consider running one of your own. Celebi has been working great for me lately. Hydration on a set with Rest+3 attacks is what I ran on Goodra.

Albi (Goodra) @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower/Muddy Water/Focus Blast
- Rest

If you're using Mega Swampert, consider putting 52 EVs into Speed. That way you outspeed 252+ Greninja in the rain.

 

[Shadow_Sneak]

Definitely Goodra. I ran it on my rain team for quite a while. It forms a nice core with Skarmory. I wouldn't recommend Sap Sipper though. If you're worried about Grass types, consider running one of your own. Celebi has been working great for me lately. Hydration on a set with Rest+3 attacks is what I ran on Goodra.

Albi (Goodra) @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower/Muddy Water/Focus Blast
- Rest

If you're using Mega Swampert, consider putting 132 EVs into Speed. That way you outspeed 252+ Greninja in the rain.

Actually about pert you run 176 speed evs so you outspeed more then greninja. And goodra is a choice but ferro is better on rain then skarmory because it provides a much needed electric and it still synergizes well with goodra. Also you may want to use power whip over gyro ball as you can hit water types harder, just a suggestion.

 

[silver97]

I suggest you to put specs kingdra which is almost necessary in rain teams to break opposing defenses for another rain sweeper to run through the opposing team

 

[FurryFurret]

Thank y'all!
k I'll try that goodra set, 176 evs into speed for swamp, kingdra and ferro + politoed. What about my last poke? would scizor be good? or maybe mamoswine? i see a fairy/dragon weakness so not sure.

 

[silver97]

Thank y'all!
k I'll try that goodra set, 176 evs into speed for swamp, kingdra and ferro + politoed. What about my last poke? would scizor be good? or maybe mamoswine? i see a fairy/dragon weakness so not sure.

Dragon/fairy weakness is nicely fixed by ferro, you could try Tornados-T that can abuse rain with hurricane and is great to gain momentum with U-turn

 

[NumberC39:TheRagingDemon]

In my opinion I think Castform is the underrated pokemon that people are sleeping on when it comes to rain teams. This original RSE powerhouse is a normal type when rain isn't up so your team isn't be destroyed by grass without rain up and when you do get up rain it changes to a water type and can abuse STAB rain boosted weather ball. This thing was literally made for weather teams and it would be an injustice not to use it.

 

[New Light]

Actually about pert you run 176 speed evs so you outspeed more then greninja. And goodra is a choice but ferro is better on rain then skarmory because it provides a much needed electric and it still synergizes well with goodra. Also you may want to use power whip over gyro ball as you can hit water types harder, just a suggestion.

What relevant mon do you outspeed at 176? Unless you're trying to outspeed something before swift swim activates?

 

[silver97]

In my opinion I think Castform is the underrated pokemon that people are sleeping on when it comes to rain teams. This original RSE powerhouse is a normal type when rain isn't up so your team isn't be destroyed by grass without rain up and when you do get up rain it changes to a water type and can abuse STAB rain boosted weather ball. This thing was literally made for weather teams and it would be an injustice not to use it.

Yes... Except it kinda sucks. 70 in every stat is lame, it is frail, slow and weak, it doesn't Fix a grass weakness at all (you can just slap a scizor/ferro for this) and it is outclassed by like every other rain abuser.

 

[Shadow_Sneak]

What relevant mon do you outspeed at 176? Unless you're trying to outspeed something before swift swim activates?

I forget the actual relevant mon but it is what most people run.

 

[heritage]

In my opinion I think Castform is the underrated pokemon that people are sleeping on when it comes to rain teams. This original RSE powerhouse is a normal type when rain isn't up so your team isn't be destroyed by grass without rain up and when you do get up rain it changes to a water type and can abuse STAB rain boosted weather ball. This thing was literally made for weather teams and it would be an injustice not to use it.

Lol, no. That thing isn't even viable in PU. What makes you think it would be viable in OU?
I don't even think it gets anything other than Weather Ball to abuse we-
Oh wait I'm talking to a troll aren't I?

 

[Sanger Zonvolt]

Lol, no. That thing isn't even viable in PU. What makes you think it would be viable in OU?
I don't even think it gets anything other than Weather Ball to abuse we-
Oh wait I'm talking to a troll aren't I?

What makes you think he's a troll? I've seen worse. There was that guy who was telling everyone how amazing his minimum speed Scarf Stealth Rock Lando-T was and who was saying that Mega Mence was worse than his base form? It's a good thing we banned that waste of thread space.

To keep this more relevant, has anyone tried using Mega Swampert as a stand-alone Rain Sweeper? Given his pretty decent coverage in Earthquake, Waterfall and Ice punch it seems like he'd be pretty useful even in non-Rain teams, sort of like Agility MegaGross with more spammable STABS.