Gen 6 Omega Ruby / Alpha Sapphire Mega Evo discussion

[Thugly Duckling]

Well, the Eon Ticket or something similar is confirmed. If we look back on previous Lati@s events all of them give away Soul Dew, so I think we can assuredly expect Soul Dew to come back when the event for ORAS pops up. I don't know how well Soul Dew Lati@s would perform in Gen 6 Ubers, but new defoggers (I just heard Ho-Oh kacaw with joy lol) are definitely welcome, especially ones with reliable recovery and aren't STag prone as well.

 

[Inspirited]

It's confirmed Xerneas doesn't get Earth Power through tutors either. More power to Primal Groudon!

 

[Thugly Duckling]

Its confirmed Xerneas doesn't get Earth Power through tutors either. More power to Primal Groudon!

Earth Power Xerneas would make me cry lol. SpD PDon to counter Xerneas tho? Oh god, this mon has a crapton of sets going for it :O

 

[Magcargo]

Soul Dew Latios and Latias would be pretty decent in the metagame on paper. Both check very important Pokemon such as Primal Groudon (unless it run a Dragon move), Kyogre, arceus electric, etc. while also providing very important support in the form of Defog. I feel that both of these Pokemon would be perfect partners for Ho-oh since they keep a large amount of Pokemon Ho-oh dislikes in check while also removing SR for it. I feel that Soul Dew Latios and Latias's only major problems are that they suffer from a gigantic amount of 4MSS, are weak to powerful priority moves such Yveltal's Sucker Punch, and are outsped by several important Pokemon, namely Arceus, Mega Rayquaza, and Mega Salamence. If Soul Dew can be Knocked Off, that would be a huge problem as well.

 

[AJC]

depending on how primal rain works physical primal Kyogre could be viable depending on if it's primal ability weather blocks WoW or not

 

[Jibaku]

Is there any other time in pokemon history where we had two mons hard counter eachother this hard?

Politoed vs ZardY is a better case than Primal Groudon/Ogre, given that switching Kyogre into Precipice Blades will probably just be suicide.

150 Base Attack Kyogre might find a use for Earthquake/Waterfall. Some investment lets Ogre 2HKO 252/0 Dialga (gl 2HKOing Groudon tho) and Waterfall busts through CM Arceus.

 

[IcyMan28]

It's possible that they made Origin Pulse weaker than Precipice Blades because rain will be boosting the power of Origin Pulse while Precipice Blades gets STAB alone.

That said, dear god these Primals look amazing. Base 115 Spe on Ray means no ScarfKia to check it.

 

[Thugly Duckling]

It's possible that they made Origin Pulse weaker than Precipice Blades because rain will be boosting the power of Origin Pulse while Precipice Blades gets STAB alone.

That said, dear god these Primals look amazing. Base 115 Spe on Ray means no ScarfKia to check it.

ScarfKia doesn't exist in XY Ubers lol. ScarfXern can't RK the Mega DD set anymore, tho :D

 

[IcyMan28]

ScarfKia doesn't exist in XY Ubers lol. ScarfXern can't RK the Mega DD set anymore, tho :D

Woops, not sure what I was thinking there. In any case, Fairy and Dragon are the only types capable of hitting MegaRay for super effective damage, so revenging DDRay will be extremely difficult. And of course it has access to extremespeed as well and could potentially forego dragon coverage if it wanted to.

 

[AJC]

mega ray is still 2x weak to ice.

 

[Hack]

Do we know if a primal goes into the mega counter? i.e. can you use mega-whatevs+primal groudon

 

[Inspirited]

According to Haruno, Primal mons don't count towards the mega slot.

 

[ChaosNemesis]

Primal not counting for the mega slot means that will drastically increase the power level and allows a broken team composed by both primals + mega...

 

[EJ190]

You know what I just realized, depending on how primal weather mechanics work, primal groundon is going to be THE a primal kyogre counter, and primal kyogre is going to hard counter primal groundon....

P kyogre being a hard counter to p don implies that you can switch it in risk free no matter what groudon does. Do you really think a 180 base power attack from a 180 base attack stat will be easy to shrug off? Especially with ogres 100/90 defences?

 

[Millky95]

P kyogre being a hard counter to p don implies that you can switch it in risk free no matter what groudon does. Do you really think a 180 base power attack from a 180 base attack stat will be easy to shrug off? Especially with ogres 100/90 defences?

252 Atk Groudon Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyogre: 274-324 (80.1 - 94.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Editted with stats for Groudon and it's move

With Groudon switching in:
252+ SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 151-178 (44.1 - 52%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO

 

[Perseu]

Am I the only one who thinks mega ray is ultra scary too? I mean, its the only mon who can attack groudon with water moves and have 180/180/115 offenses... Wanted to see the calcs for a 0 Satk quaza surf vs a 4hp 0 Sdef Mega groudon.

 

[PISTOLERO]

Where did all this information regarding moves, BSTs etc come from exactly?

 

[Jibaku]

The information was datamined from the demo. Apparently, they left a lot of stuff in there.

 

[ApplepieFTW]

Posting http://pastebin.com/eKAmvkQn here for the people who want to have a look all the leaked data.

 

[SuperWumbology]

So, since Primal Reversion is instantaneous and doesn't take a mega slot, is there a specific item the Primals need to hold in order to Devolve (i.e. Red Orb/Blue Orb) that's been confirmed? I just don't really see gf just giving them all these boosts and giving them a held item on top of that.

Mega Slowbro might be an interesting CM user to use, and Mega Ray is gonna wrek face :)

 

[Cirdec]

I see Primal Kyogre 150 base attack worth only to pass Blissey with Waterfall, other than that, it seems useless.

Primal Kyogre
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA /252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind

With the +20 bonus in Special Defense, Primal Kyogre should have an easier time to set a Calm Mind. No Choice Scarf/Specs makes Water Spout bad in my opinion.

 

[Karxrida]

I see Primal Kyogre 150 base attack worth only to pass Blissey with Waterfall, other than that, it seems useless.

Primal Kyogre
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA /252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind

With the +20 bonus in Special Defense, Primal Kyogre should have an easier time to set a Calm Mind. No Choice Scarf/Specs makes Water Spout bad in my opinion.

Doesn't Blissey get 2HKO'd by Specs Water Spout?

252+ SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey in Rain: 288-339 (44.1 - 51.9%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

 

[WebBowser]

Doesn't Blissey get 2HKO'd by Specs Water Spout?

252+ SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey in Rain: 288-339 (44.1 - 51.9%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

I think the idea is that if you're running calm mind, you'll have plenty of power anyway.

 

[FlowingCloud]

well Mega Rayquaza gonna dominate the UB

it gets good stats/moves/ability at the same time now

115spe is really useful comparing to the original 95spe

also the Dragon Ascent is a great Fly-Type move for Rayquaza

let's see the damage output first


after once Dragon Dance and use Dragon Ascent : 459(*1.1)*120*1.5*1.5*42=5205060(5725566)

this output is already higher than Sword Danced Life Orb Arzeus use Ex-speed : 372*80*1.5*1.3*2*42=4874688


if Rayquaza choose Sword Dance

after once Sword Dance and use Dragon Ascent : 459(*1.1)*120*1.5*2*42=6940080(7634088)

this output is even higher than 2 atk stages M-Kangaskhan use return : 383*102*1.5*1.5*2*42=7383474


and Rayquaza has plenty moves to choose , such as V Create/Earthquake/Outrage/Dragon Claw/Stone Edge/Rock Slide/Brick Break/Crunch/Extremespeed...

moreover M-Rayquaza has 396 SPA(no efforts) , so it can choose SPA moves such as Thunder/ThunderBolt/Flamethower/OverHeat/Draco Meteor/Ice Beam/Solar Beam/Focus Blast/Surf...


also M-Rayquaza gets only 3 weaknesses fairy/dragon/ice(*2) due to its ability Delta Storm

the 105HP/100DEF/100SPD defenses are not bad at all honestly

mostly non-ice type PM can't 0HKO M-Rayquaza(0 defense efforts)


M-Rayquaza is also a good counter to P-Groundon (0*Ground,0.5*Fire for M-Rayquaza)

 

[Fireburn]

Minority Suspect

-Kyogre is confirmed not to get Freeze Dry
-Xerneas is confirmed not to get Earth Power or Heat Wave

Anyways Primal Groudon (assuming it can't hold an item i.e. has to hold a Mega Stone-esque item) can still be checked by some of the usual Groudon checks:

-Cresselia (not 2HKOed by anything except +2 Fire Punch, can abuse Desolate Land to recover 66% health with Moonlight, can Toxic stall) (loses to pure special sets)
-Lugia (it actually used to run Reflect in Gen 4 for SD Groudon and it might do so again)
-Arceus-Ground (it can take a hit and do a lot of damage back with Earthquake or Judgment, not a hard check though unless you run a lot of bulk)
-Giratina-Origin (survives most attacks and can inflict a lot of damage back with Draco Meteor)
-Regular Groudon (if it doesn't have special attacks)
-Mega Rayquaza (Delta Stream gives neutrality to Stone Edge)
-Landorus-T (no Overheat)

It's also not too hard to revenge kill if it doesn't have a RP boost since its slow and still only has middling special bulk.

That being said, a lot of old checks (Grass Arceus, Skarmory, Giratina-A) just flat out don't work anymore due to the Fire-typing, and not being able to be burned is a huge asset. Heck, Primal Groudon counters Arceus-Water now lol. This is definitely an insane Pokemon and will probably one of the (if not the) most used Pokemon in Ubers along with Mega Rayquaza.