Other ORAS Mega Speculation Thread (NO talk about potential bans NOR Aegislash)

Which is your favorite?

  • Beedrill

    Votes: 255 26.5%
  • Pidgeot

    Votes: 119 12.3%
  • Slowbro

    Votes: 86 8.9%
  • Steelix

    Votes: 58 6.0%
  • Sceptile

    Votes: 140 14.5%
  • Swampert

    Votes: 120 12.4%
  • Sableye

    Votes: 62 6.4%
  • Sharpedo

    Votes: 57 5.9%
  • Camerupt

    Votes: 57 5.9%
  • Altaria

    Votes: 144 14.9%
  • Glalie

    Votes: 79 8.2%
  • Salamence

    Votes: 198 20.5%
  • Metagross

    Votes: 164 17.0%
  • Latias

    Votes: 50 5.2%
  • Latios

    Votes: 54 5.6%
  • Loppuny

    Votes: 125 13.0%
  • Gallade

    Votes: 148 15.4%
  • Audino

    Votes: 30 3.1%
  • Diancie

    Votes: 74 7.7%

  • Total voters
    964
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Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
145 base attack comes with 130 base Defense, 120 base Speed, Dragon Dance, and a better defensive type to flex all over the things that would normally check Mega Pinsir.

252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 192-229 (58 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 187-222 (56.4 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

These are two of our best revenge killers taking on a Mega Salamence with no defensive investment. What more could you ask for?

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 265-312 (80 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 302-359 (91.2 - 108.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

Banded Ice Shard?
To add to this, Salamence can afford to run bulk and a +Attack nature like Zard X because of its delicious Base 120 speed on top of not needing Defog support as badly, so it could feasibly tank LO Mamo's Ice Shard with the right spread.

252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 302-359 (83.8 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
So, Mega Salamence, 95/145/130/120/90/120. I still don't think we should jump to conclusions on it. I've been trying to come up with checks for it and this is what I've thought of. Enough speed to outpace the base 115s, max attack, and the rest thrown into HP to maximize bulk.

Salamence@Salamite
Naive; 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Intimidate -> Aerialate

Return
Fire Blast
Earthquake
Dragon Dance

First off, let's keep in mind that Aerialate Return from Mega Mence is not that much stronger than the LO Outrage that was so feared in previous generations.

389 Atk Aerialate Return vs. 252 / 0 Mew: (57.92% - 68.32%)
369 Atk LO Outrage vs. 252 / 0 Mew: (64.85% - 76.49%)

So right off the bat, Salamence's Aerialate Return is actually weaker than LO Outrage, despite the increase in base attack. So on the power output end of the spectrum, the question becomes whether or not Mence's Flying STAB is too difficult to deal with. Possible checks to the above set include:

+1 389 Atk Aerialate Return vs. 252 / 252+ Slowbro: (60.15% - 70.81%)
+1 389 Atk Aerialate Return vs. 248 / 216+ Rotom-W: (50.83% - 60.07%)
+1 389 Atk Aerialate Return vs. 252 / 252+ Hippowdon: (53.57% - 63.10%)
+1 389 Atk Earthquake vs. 248 / 252+ Tyranitar: (59.06% - 69.98%)

You get the point. There are plenty of pokemon in OU currently that can take on Salamence's +1 Return. You can upgrade to Double Edge but it seems like the same pokemon will still check it and now you have recoil. On the offensive end of things, there are very few things that can outspeed it at +1 so handling it will have to be through revenge killing and priority attacks. Stealth Rock weakness helps with this. I'm seeing this set as kind of an opposite Mega Garde; it isn't that much more effective against defensive teams but shines against offense. It's notable that Salamence can adjust its moves to better deal with certain threats but will invariably have to deal with others; Double-Edge brings recoil into the equation and even then is only about 4% stronger.

Mence can also run special attacks off of its viable base 120 SpA and access to Aerialate Hyper Voice, but this will generally be less effective and easier to wall. 252 / 0 Slowbro, for example, takes less from Mence's Hyper Voice than from +1 Return but obviously is 2HKOd. While base 120 speed is excellent, non-DD Mence is still prone to revenge killing with various scarfers as well.

I think the question with Salamence is whether or not its unpredictability combined with increased bulk make it too much to handle for OU.
 

SketchUp

Don't let your memes be dreams
The speed boost on Mega Metagross is awesome because the need for Agility is less so there is more room for coverage moves
Mega Metagross, Slowbro and Salamence seem very powerful to me
Mega Swampert is amazing and in a rain team he is perfect. Mega Beedrill has terrible defenses but with the right support he can really be awesome. Mega Altaria and Sceptile look awesome too. Can't wait to use them
 
So, Mega Salamence, 95/145/130/120/90/120. I still don't think we should jump to conclusions on it. I've been trying to come up with checks for it and this is what I've thought of. Enough speed to outpace the base 115s, max attack, and the rest thrown into HP to maximize bulk.

Salamence@Salamite
Naive; 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Intimidate -> Aerialate

Return
Fire Blast
Earthquake
Dragon Dance

First off, let's keep in mind that Aerialate Return from Mega Mence is not that much stronger than the LO Outrage that was so feared in previous generations.

389 Atk Aerialate Return vs. 252 / 0 Mew: (57.92% - 68.32%)
369 Atk LO Outrage vs. 252 / 0 Mew: (64.85% - 76.49%)

So right off the bat, Salamence's Aerialate Return is actually weaker than LO Outrage, despite the increase in base attack. So on the power output end of the spectrum, the question becomes whether or not Mence's Flying STAB is too difficult to deal with. Possible checks to the above set include:

+1 389 Atk Aerialate Return vs. 252 / 252+ Slowbro: (60.15% - 70.81%)
+1 389 Atk Aerialate Return vs. 248 / 216+ Rotom-W: (50.83% - 60.07%)
+1 389 Atk Aerialate Return vs. 252 / 252+ Hippowdon: (53.57% - 63.10%)
+1 389 Atk Earthquake vs. 248 / 252+ Tyranitar: (59.06% - 69.98%)

You get the point. There are plenty of pokemon in OU currently that can take on Salamence's +1 Return. You can upgrade to Double Edge but it seems like the same pokemon will still check it and now you have recoil. On the offensive end of things, there are very few things that can outspeed it at +1 so handling it will have to be through revenge killing and priority attacks. Stealth Rock weakness helps with this. I'm seeing this set as kind of an opposite Mega Garde; it isn't that much more effective against defensive teams but shines against offense. It's notable that Salamence can adjust its moves to better deal with certain threats but will invariably have to deal with others; Double-Edge brings recoil into the equation and even then is only about 4% stronger.

Mence can also run special attacks off of its viable base 120 SpA and access to Aerialate Hyper Voice, but this will generally be less effective and easier to wall. 252 / 0 Slowbro, for example, takes less from Mence's Hyper Voice than from +1 Return but obviously is 2HKOd. While base 120 speed is excellent, non-DD Mence is still prone to revenge killing with various scarfers as well.

I think the question with Salamence is whether or not its unpredictability combined with increased bulk make it too much to handle for OU.
Shouldn't thrash calcs accompany outrage calcs?
389 Atk Aerilate Salamence Thrash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 276-325 (68.3 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
There you go, more powerful than the outrage now.
 
Good God, M-Beedrill's stats are ridiculous in both good and bad ways. Now just give it Megahorn, Gamefreak.

252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Megahorn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 334-394 (93.5 - 110.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

Wouldn't even need Swords Dance.
 
So, uh, Mega Beedrill has the most hilarious min-maxed stat spread ever with that 15 SpA.

like, goddamn, did they just make Beedrill into a mon that's at least an A-rank

It's frail as hell, but 150/145 Atk/Spe and Adaptability, holy shit

Drill Run and Knock Off are cool coverage options, and if you don't feel like you hit hard enough you can even set up a Swords Dance. The speed tier is what really makes it crazy - there are lots of Megas with ridiculous destructive power, but Mega Gardevoir and Mega Heracross don't have the honor of outrunning every relevant unscarfed threat in OU not named M-Alakazam or M-Aerodactyl.

edit: I feel like I should preserve this as my initial response to M-Beedrill's ludicrous stats, even if it is before I realized just how barren its movepool is outside of STAB moves/Drill Run/Knock Off
 
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Apart from 1 or 2 of the megas. Sand offence, or excadrill, absolutely demolishes all. Literally with stealth rock up, all of them pretty much lose to excadrill. I have the feeling that sand offence will be really, really threatening in the ORAS meta. Oras is going to be a lot more revolved around weather, especially with Mega swampert giving rain an absouloute terrifying mon to play against.

252+ Atk Swampert Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory in Rain: 136-162 (40.7 - 48.5%) -- 67.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Swampert Earthquake vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 168-198 (46.7 - 55.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

That's why you have Excadrill counters and checks....
 
Would Fell Stinger be viable on Mega Beedrill?

Adaptability doubles its power to base 60, and the +2 Attack boost from KOing something with it is always welcome.
 
Would Fell Stinger be viable on Mega Beedrill?

Adaptability doubles its power to base 60, and the +2 Attack boost from KOing something with it is always welcome.
Doubtful. Being so weak to priority and hazards you're more likely to come in, scare something away and U-Turn out
 
Hopefully move tutors completely change this.
Putting them in spoilers just in-case you want it as a surprise
Weedle: Bug Bite, Electroweb
Kakuna: Bug Bite, Iron Defense, Electroweb
Beedrill: Bug Bite, Drill Run, Electroweb, Snore, Knock Off, Tailwind, Giga Drain, Air Cutter, Endeavor, Endure

Stealth Rocks aslso is a Tutor move
 

Pyritie

TAMAGO
is an Artist
Tutor moves: http://pastebin.com/8rbu6Fmp
New level up moves: http://pastebin.com/vJX9K9ni

Some notable things:
Gyarados now gets crunch
Florges now has synthesis to differentiate itself from sylveon
Chesnaught gets drain punch
Physical greninja now has a bigger movepool
Delphox continues to have no moves
Diggersby's movepool is now ridiculously big
Slurpuff now has drain punch so its belly drum unburden set isn't completely walled by steels
Pangoro now has a much better movepool
Hawlucha now gets drain punch and superpower if you don't like HJK, as well as a bunch of other neat moves
Tyrantrum now has superpower and outrage
Diancie now has earth power
 
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Putting them in spoilers just in-case you want it as a surprise
Weedle: Bug Bite, Electroweb
Kakuna: Bug Bite, Iron Defense, Electroweb
Beedrill: Bug Bite, Drill Run, Electroweb, Snore, Knock Off, Tailwind, Giga Drain, Air Cutter, Endeavor, Endure

Stealth Rocks aslso is a Tutor move
So its just a redo of pre gen6 tutors. How dull.. well .. thanks for that :p hopes for pidgeot = gone
 
Tutor moves: http://pastebin.com/8rbu6Fmp
New level up moves: http://pastebin.com/vJX9K9ni

Some notable things:
Gyarados now gets crunch
Florges now has synthesis to differentiate itself from sylveon
Chesnaught gets drain punch
Physical greninja now has a bigger movepool
Delphox continues to have no moves
Diggersby's movepool is now ridiculously big
Slurpuff now has drain punch so its belly drum unburden set isn't completely walled by steels
Pangoro now has a much better movepool
Hawlucha now gets drain punch and superpower if you don't like HJK, as well as a bunch of other neat moves
Tyrantrum now has superpower and outrage
Diancie now has earth power
Diggerby gets Knock Off :D. It actually has something to hit Gengar with now.
 

Albacore

sludge bomb is better than sludge wave
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Okay, I must've been really really tired when I said that MMence wasn't as broken as I thought it would be and that the Offensive DD set won't be as good as the other sets because holy crap it'll be impossible to revenge kill at +1, especially if it runs a Jolly Nature. Scarf Greninja anyone? But yeah, MMence is really, really bulky, still very powerful (only 10 base Attack less than MPinsir and we know how hard that hits), very fast, great mixed offenses, it's basically amazing in every way and is def completely broken lol. Anyway, time to innovate the metagame prematurely :


Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Return/Double-Edge
- Earthquake

Okay, so this set is basically designed to set up over everything physically offensive in order to get to like, +3 and sweep. This thing DDs all over Lando-T, Sand Rush Excadrill, Mega-Pinsir, Garcomp, MGyara (even with Ice Fang), TTar, Diggersby, Bisharp (yes, even after giving it the Defiant boost) even fucking LO Terrakion. This thing uses AV Azumarill as setup fodder, not even kidding. Just a small calc to give you a taste :

-1 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Salamence: 170-200 (43.2 - 50.8%) -- approx. 0.4% chance to 2HKO lolwut

It also sets up over Keldeo (watch out for Scald burns and Icy Wind though) and has enough natural special bulk to tank Lando-I Psychic, though using it as setup fodder is dangerous because of Roost/Earth Power 50/50s. If you can get to +2 though :

+2 0 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus: 286-337 (89.6 - 105.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Yeah, this thing still hits very hard even with no investment. It's also not exactly slow : it outspeeds Adamant Excadrill, a pretty important benchmark, by 1 point, and at +1 it's faster than MMane, pretty much the fastest unscarfed mon in OU, though creeping Timid MSceptile is probably a good idea, although:

252 SpA Mega Sceptile Dragon Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 330-390 (83.9 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO yum

Unfortunately, you only get one shot at Intimidating stuff to set up, but it's not like you absolutely need Intimidate to tank everything, it just kinda helps. And besides, once should probably be enough since most Scarfers just aren't strong enough to take this thing out. This set may seem like a gimmick but I think it'll be somewhat legit just because MMence is that stupidly broken it can still make it work.

Also, I don't think MBro will be as ridiculous as everyone seems to think it is, and I definitely don't see it being suspected. We still have Taunters to shut it down (though Mew is the only one I can think of which doesn't get hit hard by it), hard-hitters such as MHera who 2HKOs with Pin Missile, MGarde who still 2HKOs it even if it's at +1, and the fact that it kinda has to rely on RestTalk to sweep means it can be taken advantage of quite easily. Calm your tits people, it's not the defensive stuff that's about to crush the meta here.
 
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no love for m-sharpedo? maybe this set could work

sharpedo @ sharpedite
ability: speed boost --> strong jaw
evs: 252 atk / 52 def / 204 spe
nature: jolly
- Waterfall
- Crunch / Ice Fang
- Ice Fang / Poison Fang / Destiny Bond
- Protect

evs allow sharpedo to outspeed jolly scarf lando-t at +1, hence protect before mega evolving (not only for lando-t, just rly useful in general). after that, immediately mega evolve to hit reasonably hard. rest of evs go into atk and def to take physical hits better, not like its gonna live any special move anyway.

waterfall is strong stab, crunch is secondary stab further boosted by strong jaw + hits psychics too. if that isnt a problem, this can be replaced by ice fang. if ice fang is used in second slot, either poison fang (new move in oras) or destiny bond will work. poison fang hits fairies for se damage + strong jaw boost, or destiny bond as a surefire kill for any threat. protect is self-explanatory.

other moves such as eq for heatran, probably aqua jet or stuff like super fang idk :/

also this:
-1 252 Atk Strong Jaw M-Sharpedo Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 316-376 (99 - 117.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

if the 24 def evs go into hp, gg, its an ohko :> opinions?
 
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Looking at the stats, all of the Mega Evolutions apart from possibly Mega Audino seem like they'll have at least a niche in OU, and one or two, particularly Mega Salamence look broken to the point of making Mega Mawile/Blaziken/Kangaskhan/Lucario healthy in OU. I'm excited to test all of these out, but I guess if I have a point of concern, it's the ever increasing speed tiers, as the easiest way of introducing a new pokemon to check an old pokemon is to have it outspeed and OHKO it, and with all these new megas, it seems like 110 will be a new base speed benchmark [obviously ignoring Camerupt, which only looks to be viable in Trick Room, and Slowbro/Sableye/Steelkix, who don't really care about base speed anyway]. This makes a lot of the older megas more difficult to use, but more importantly, it puts a crimp in non-mega pokemon as well, as there are only a handful of OU viable pokemon above 110 base speed, and there are several megas that are well above this benchmark anyway, and that seem stronger than Mega Manectric/Alakazam/Aerodactyl were.

Also, given that all of this information has been leaked, would it be possible to set up a ORAS beta showdown ladder? I also wonder if there's a possibility of establishing a permanent XY OU metagame on the ladder, as ORAS is going to give us a radically different OU, and imo, this is currently a good metagame.
 
Has it been mentioned if Unburden would be activated after Mega Evolution? Otherwise I can't see any reason to run Mega Sceptile at all considering the huge selection of other Megas.

Mega Mence screams pretty much broken:

Salamence@Mega Stone
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Adamant/Jolly
252 Spe / 252 Atk / 4 Def
- DD
- Return/Double Edge
- Roost
- EQ

Unless its speed or atk drop, which seems unlikely, I don't see this thing not being considered for a suspect test.
 
You obviously don't play much, because sand is an absolute pain for offence to face, the biggest threat to offense is probably sand offence/balance, add on the fact that all the new offensive megas pretty much lose to sand, and you realise what im saying...

I probably have a higher rating than you do.

Sand is only a problem for offense if you run a hyper offense with nothing to handle heavy offense
 
Honestly I think M-Bro might be more broken than mence... Or on par... We all laughed at shell armor, but now we pray for regenerator as it sets up 6 cms with impunity in our faces.
Tbh that was your fault to understimate an ability like Shell Armor in a Pokémon with the defenses and hp of Slowbro, along with slack off, scald (now coming from a base 130 SpA.), psyshock, practicaly inmune to knock off due to its mega stone and inmune to trick.

The same way some people seems to understimate M-Mence just because it didn't get a "large" boost to its Atk, when Aerilate + Base 145 (paired with a fucking 120 Base Speed and DD) + that bulk is all what it needs.

If no Earthquake then wouldn't Heatran take it comfortably?
Of course, but that was the problem with mixmence back in 4ª Gen too, you need to know what set its running before doing anything, and by that time it could be too late. The major problem with Salamence is its versality. While other sweepers or bulky sweepers have their potential sets limited to 1, with minor differences in one move or another, Salamence has a great number of sets -almost- equally deadliest, it could go DD, Bulky DD, Mixed and more... I honestly see this thing getting banned from OU, the bulk is so stronk also...
 
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Has it been mentioned if Unburden would be activated after Mega Evolution? Otherwise I can't see any reason to run Mega Sceptile at all considering the huge selection
Unburden? On a pokemon that can't remove its item with 145 speed? It's called "FU Rotom-Wash.
 
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