Other ORAS Mega Speculation Thread (NO talk about potential bans NOR Aegislash)

[666lumberjack]

I've been playing around with Mega-Lopunny sets some. I'm excited to make a team with this thing come ORAS, seems like a really cool if niche mon. I know what hype there has been around Lopunny has been centered around High Jump Kick spam, but I actually think she'll be able to do a couple of other things and well, perhaps more effectively - Lopunny has a massive movepool and flawless two-move coverage, which leaves it free to play around with lots of different things in the last twi slots. Something I've been running some calcs on that I think might have some potential is a SubPunch set:

Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Adamant Nature
64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Spe
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Frustration
- Toxic / Encore / Drain Punch / Circle Throw / ???

The role of this set is to act as a fast 'stallbreaker'/utility Pokemon which absorbing Knock Off. The EVs are maybe not the best you could use, I was just playing around with some stuff - this gives you enough speed for Thunderus-I (who you one-shot after SR), the raw power to break a lot of Pokemon very easily and a little bulk to help sponge general hits. The general idea is to bring Lopunny in on something that doesn't want to face it (Gengar, for example) and then follow with either Substitute or Focus Punch. Substitute makes prediction easy and leaves you a lot more flexible, but against defensive teams smacking them with Focus Punch on the switch is very powerful. For example, the combination of Focus Punch + Frustration will 2HKO SpDef Hippowdon almost 100% of the time with SR. Against Physically Defensive Skarmory you can Focus Punch on the switch and force it into an unpleasant situation - Focus Punch on a Roost will OHKO, Focus Punch on a support move will 2HKO, and switching out of the Brave Bird will leave it totally crippled. Frustation is also pretty strong, easily 2HKOing all but the most physically defensive of Clefable and allowing you to pick off slightly weakend Thundurus, Latios, Latias, etc. STAB Scrappy Focus Punch is brutal - there's almost nothing that doesn't take a big chunk from it. It hits for over half on 248 HP Talonflame (and funnily enough, 0 Atk Brave Bird can't OHKO without hazards) and about 65% minimum on physically defensive Rotom-W. Stuff like Keldeo/Garchomp/Breloom with modest bulk and no fighting resist is absolutely crushed.

The final slot allows to specialise Lopunny more heavily. Toxic inconveniences bulky psychics that are otherwise pretty annoying to deal with (although 248HP Mew is 2HKOd by Frustration, so that's nice) and generally makes this set more of a pain for stall to face, but a lot of the things you'd want to hit with it are mauled by Focus Punch anyway. Encore gives free turns to sub and is generally a handy move on such a fast platform, but it's not that useful aside from that. Drain Punch gives you a form of recovery (if not using it, you'll probably want a wishpasser or something) and allows you to revenge kill Terrakion. Ice Punch destroys Ground/Flyings you otherwise can't beat. Circle Throw lets you rack up hazard damage and prevent the sub from being phased, although it's also -ve priority which is rather annoying.

I think this has the potnetial to be a genuinely good set on the right team. It packs a lot of useful things into one Pokemon. No idea whether High Jump Kick sets will end up going anywhere, I suspect it's too weak to pull that off well.

 

[IcyMan28]

Is there anything physical attacker that can OHKO Mega Slowbro? The only thing I can think of right now is Adamant +2 Mega Heracross; not even CB Adaptability Crawdaunt's Crunch will do the trick.

 

[Daken]

To be fair, we must compare Mmence with another threats in Ou meta right now.

I build Mmence to look like the typical build for Zard X.
Zard X build ->

Bulky Dragon Dance
########
name: Bulky Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Dragon Claw
move 3: Flare Blitz / Earthquake
move 4: Roost
ability: Blaze
item: Charizardite X
evs: 248 HP / 152 Atk / 108 Spd
nature: Adamant

Mence Build --->

Bulky mixed dragon dance.
########
name: Bulky mixed dragon dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Dragon Claw
move 3: double edge/return/Hyper voice/fireblast/draco meteor
move 4: Roost/hyper voice/fireblast/draco meteor
ability: Intimidate/moxie
item: Stone
evs: 108 HP / 152 Atk / 248 SpAtk (with 108 hp Evs Mmence has almost the same life then ZardX, 152 atk hits pretty well without bulk and 248 SpAtk completes the mixed build, u don't really need to Ev in Spdef, the icebeams will mostly kill u anyway and u can outspeed then with DDance or resist phisical ice atks with 130 Base def).
nature: Brave (with 120 base speed, u can use brave nature and outspeed most of the Ou metagame with 1 Ddance or two, that's not hard to setup).


Well, i honestly think this is the opitimal build for both pokes, they can setup and recover and hit hard as F4CK.
The problem is: When we compare the two of them, we begin to see that using the same strategies (kinda) they both have strong and weak points.

Zard X has a better tiping for resisting the most common threats for dragons (ice and fairy), and a better stab to counter the common viable mons in the meta (u can use thunder punch/EQ and u'll still be using Zard X ability). U can easily run Flareblitz/Outrage/dragon claw and face almost everything that the meta uses without fear (azumarill can be a problem but u resist aqua jet and playrought deals normal damage). Zard X is immune to WOW and can deals with toxic (roost).

In the other hand Mence has a better pre-EVO ability that allows him to switch in more often and setup more easily, it depends less in Defogs/Spinner supports since he don't take 50% damage from SR. Aerilate is a HUGE powerhouse and buff for him, but sadly can be used in less situations then Tough claws (u must have hyper voice/double edge/return in any build).
Also, to really enjoy the benefits of Atk and Spatk u must burn 1 move slot and give up an more deeper coverage or the recovery/Ddance set (wich can be really painfull since Mmence suffers from TW, WOW and TOXIC).
We can even compare Mmence with another Mixed atker (MLucario), Lucario can setup and switch in more easily, has two great stabs in both Atk and Spatk (two priority moves). Immunity to toxic, deals with TW (priority moves + stab), resists to Sr and has a more profitable Ability.


Sure u can run Mmence without Spatk Evs or just atk/spatk focused, it will be strong but u have to sacrifice (to fully use erilate ability) roost or DD, to be really effective and cover a variety of counters. Intimidate helps him to switch in, but instead of Mlucario/Zard X u have to be fully aware of Walls/Zards, since u heavily suffers from toxic/WOW and needs to be aware of SR. this added to the new meta additions (lot of Spatk users) makes intimidate less effective to switch in easily.
MLoppuny for example can switch in and fake out/ice punch in response of a Mmence switch, if the mence has the Ddance/roost mixed/Atk build, MLoppunny will sucessfull outspeed him (jolly) and kill with fake out/ice punch.
Sure, the Mmene can be 252 Atk 252 speed and outspeed Mloppunny after the Fake out, but if he is, we can wall him with a simply WOW pysical defense user.



Resuming -> Mmence is a powerhouse and can attack/setup/recover both spectrum, but he isn't that realiable/can easily cover all his counter like the other two powerhouses (he even lacks all the points that made Lucario be banned), has the 4 moves syndrome (thanks to aerilate) and can be walled pretty easily depending on the build (at any build u can toxic/WOW/TW/SR).

 

[WebBowser]

I'm a bit late, but oh well (16 pages in a day? Oy). I'll just make a few general points.

I'm slightly worried about the continuation of the silly large power creep brought on by these new Megas, but I'm much more worried about the speed creep. 100 speed is no longer "good enough" for an offensive poke in a meta with things like M-Mence, M-Gross, or even Bird Jeshua Jesus. Granted, Fairies will make M-Mence dragonspam quite a bit more difficult than in gens 4/5, but most viable fairies (bar M-Diancie?) will crumple under the weight of (possibly DD-boosted) Aerilate Returns, and even M-Diancie is susceptible to EQ coverage.

I've seen a lot of comments worrying about the speed creep and would like to try to reassure concerns about speed creep. While it is true that these megas have patently ridiculous speed tiers, one must remember that any given player can only have one of these guys, so you cannot make a team of super fast good mons. This will ensure that folks like the latis and keldeo will remain good pokemon.

 

[zbr]

There should be no doubt that Mega Beedrill won't be great in OU; i thought that people were excited just with the thought of Beedrill being viable in OU. Horrible bulk, horrible typing, SR weak on a Pokemon whose biggest selling point is U-turn, and being easy to counter all mean that Mega Beedrill will be a niche option in OU at best. But, still, we are talking about Beedrill here, the fact it even has a chance of being used competitively in OU is miraculous and hilarious!

Mega Diancie is looking great with the addition of Earth Power to its moveset, great 160 / 160 offense, and 110 base Speed. Outside of max HP / max Def+ Chansey, physically defensive Mega Venusaur, and specially defensive Jirachi, it has no hard counters with a moveset of Diamond Storm / Moonblast / Earth Power / Hidden Power Fire. It even got Heal Bell for some nice offensive cleric action, a role that OU has been missing, which also makes it an even better Heatran switch in. Mega Diance also provides an awesome offensive check to Mega Pinsir and Mega Charizard X if it has already MEvolved, two of the scariest offensive threats in OU before ORAS, which is very nice as well. Checking Mega Altaria is sweet too. Talonflame seems as an excellent partner to Mega Diancie, as it appreciates the anti-SR support and can beat all the Pokemon that counter Diancie, especially Steel-types. Just make sure to pack a sturdy check to Water-types, as they are problems for both Pokemon.

With Mega Slowbro, Mega Sableye, Mega Altaria, Mega Metagross, Mega Gallade, and even Mega Sceptile to an extend, the metagame seems like it will focus a lot on set up sweepers, especially bulky boosters. Stallbreakers such as Mew, Talonflame, and Gliscor also seem to have taken a hit, because Mega Diancie and Mega Sableye give them big troubles.

Let's see some good answers to those new, threatening set up sweepers:

• Mega Slowbro (Calm Mind): Toxic Chansey (for Scald + Psyshock sets), Unaware CM Clefable, SD Poison Heal Breloom (for CroBro), SubDD Mega Gyarados with dual STABs, NP Celebi, Guts Heracross (if Slowbro lacks Psyshock), SD Toxicroak (for CroBro), Mega Sableye, stallbreaker Mew

• Mega Sableye (Calm Mind): Mega Gardevoir (Shadow Ball doesn't even 2HKO without SR), Taunt Mega Gyarados, CM Clefable, Mega Lopunny (must avoid WoW on the switch though, or have cleric support), SD and BU Talonflame, SD, DD, and max Atk Adamant Roost + 3 attacks Mega Charizard X, CM Suicune, Guts Heracross, Nasty Plot Mega Houndoom, Swords Dance Mega Absol

• Mega Altaria (Dragon Dance): Slowbro, Mega Slowbro, Quagsire, Unaware Clefable, Mega Metagross, Mega Scizor, Mega Venusaur, Skarmory (for sets lacking Fire Blast), Heatran (for sets lacking Earthquake), Doublade, Bronzong, Jirachi (for sets lacking Earthquake), Rotom-W (for sets lacking Heal Bell), Ferrothorn (for sets lacking Fire Blast), Talonflame (for sets lacking Dragon moves), Empoleon (for sets lacking Earthquake and Heal Bell), Mega Aggron

• Mega Metagross (Agility): Slowbro (for sets lacking Thunderpunch), Mega Slowbro, Landorus-T (for sets lacking Ice Punch), physically defensive Hippowdon, Alomomola, Quagsire, Roost Mega Scizor, Ferrothorn, Rotom-W, Mega Gyarados with Crunch (for sets lacking Thunderpunch), Bisharp, Mega Swampert

• Mega Gallade (Swords Dance): Unaware Clefable, Mega Sableye, Sableye

• Mega Sceptile (Swords Dance): Skarmory, Mega Scizor, Ferrothorn, Mega Metagross, Unaware Clefable, Mega Venusaur, Landorus-T, Amoonguss, Togekiss (for sets lacking Thunderpunch), Mega Altaria, Cresselia, Mandibuzz

I didn't include revenge killers or Pokemon that risk getting OHKOed by a coverage move, only solid checks and counters. As we can see, the harder of those to deal with is by far Mega Gallade, which with a simple set of SD / CC / Zen Headbutt / Knock Off destroys everything except from two Pokemon, Clefable and Sableye.

Mega Alt may end up being more of a defensive pivot tho. It's crazy typing and ability + movepool does make it great for doing everything it hopes to do.

 

[WebBowser]

Daken You are quite possibly the first person of anywhere to suggest that being "forced" into running a 102+ BP flying STAB is a bad thing. That's like saying "zard-x is practically forced to run flare blitz / fire punch STAB to take advantage of tough claws".

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

1- Mence is Definitely going to be banned
2-what exactly out classes greninja nothing has his type of coverage and only 2 of the new megas are faster
3- Yeah Keldeo is in an awkward situation
4- again only really beaten by sceptile in OU because Mence isnt going to be in OU for more than a couple of weeks

But really I see little talk about Altaria that thing can really be good.

Nothing straight up outclasses greninja (Sharpedo might be competition though), but its inability to revenge kill sceptile, Beedrill, Lopunny, swampert in rain, dragon dancers after 1 move, and the general hype for new Pokemon will hurt its usage and viability

Altaria, Sceptile, and Metagross laugh at latios

 

[Daken]

i didin't said it was bad, i just said that i causes the 4 moves sindrome, tough claws can benefit from Thunder Punch, flare blitz, Dragon Claw, outrage(..) And aerilate only hypervoice/double edge/return.

 

[Halcyon.]

I can assure you that 0 speed Brave Mega Mence will never ever be used by any competent player.

 

[Goodra]

I've been playing around with Mega-Lopunny sets some. I'm excited to make a team with this thing come ORAS, seems like a really cool if niche mon. I know what hype there has been around Lopunny has been centered around High Jump Kick spam, but I actually think she'll be able to do a couple of other things and well, perhaps more effectively - Lopunny has a massive movepool and flawless two-move coverage, which leaves it free to play around with lots of different things in the last twi slots. Something I've been running some calcs on that I think might have some potential is a SubPunch set:

Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Adamant Nature
64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Spe
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Frustration
- Toxic / Encore / Drain Punch / Circle Throw / ???

The role of this set is to act as a fast 'stallbreaker'/utility Pokemon which absorbing Knock Off. The EVs are maybe not the best you could use, I was just playing around with some stuff - this gives you enough speed for Thunderus-I (who you one-shot after SR), the raw power to break a lot of Pokemon very easily and a little bulk to help sponge general hits. The general idea is to bring Lopunny in on something that doesn't want to face it (Gengar, for example) and then follow with either Substitute or Focus Punch. Substitute makes prediction easy and leaves you a lot more flexible, but against defensive teams smacking them with Focus Punch on the switch is very powerful. For example, the combination of Focus Punch + Frustration will 2HKO SpDef Hippowdon almost 100% of the time with SR. Against Physically Defensive Skarmory you can Focus Punch on the switch and force it into an unpleasant situation - Focus Punch on a Roost will OHKO, Focus Punch on a support move will 2HKO, and switching out of the Brave Bird will leave it totally crippled. Frustation is also pretty strong, easily 2HKOing all but the most physically defensive of Clefable and allowing you to pick off slightly weakend Thundurus, Latios, Latias, etc. STAB Scrappy Focus Punch is brutal - there's almost nothing that doesn't take a big chunk from it. It hits for over half on 248 HP Talonflame (and funnily enough, 0 Atk Brave Bird can't OHKO without hazards) and about 65% minimum on physically defensive Rotom-W. Stuff like Keldeo/Garchomp/Breloom with modest bulk and no fighting resist is absolutely crushed.

The final slot allows to specialise Lopunny more heavily. Toxic inconveniences bulky psychics that are otherwise pretty annoying to deal with (although 248HP Mew is 2HKOd by Frustration, so that's nice) and generally makes this set more of a pain for stall to face, but a lot of the things you'd want to hit with it are mauled by Focus Punch anyway. Encore gives free turns to sub and is generally a handy move on such a fast platform, but it's not that useful aside from that. Drain Punch gives you a form of recovery (if not using it, you'll probably want a wishpasser or something) and allows you to revenge kill Terrakion. Ice Punch destroys Ground/Flyings you otherwise can't beat. Circle Throw lets you rack up hazard damage and prevent the sub from being phased, although it's also -ve priority which is rather annoying.

I think this has the potnetial to be a genuinely good set on the right team. It packs a lot of useful things into one Pokemon. No idea whether High Jump Kick sets will end up going anywhere, I suspect it's too weak to pull that off well.

Neat idea though I think you are underselling HJK's damage potential and easy spamming a bit plus why use Frustration over Return?

 

[Daken]

252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 144-169 (36.5 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Salamence Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 240-283 (60.9 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Salamence Thunder Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 80-96 (20.3 - 24.3%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
-2 252 SpA Salamence Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 120-142 (30.4 - 36%) -- 48.8% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Slowbro: 165-195 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Salamence Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Slowbro: 183-216 (46.4 - 54.8%) -- 62.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Salamence Thunder Fang vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Slowbro: 92-110 (23.3 - 27.9%) -- 82.4% chance to 4HKO


0 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 356-420 (107.5 - 126.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
84 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Salamence: 292-348 (88.2 - 105.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

Damn Mslowbro.

 

[Norne]

Neat idea though I think you are underselling HJK's damage potential and easy spamming a bit plus why use Frustration over Return?

Scarf Ditto exists. And i will use him.

 

[NotSoClutch]

Mega Audino is slowly growing on me. It is far and away the most physically bulky fairy (not including fairy arceus), it has a solid support movepool, and an amazing typing giving it two immunities, a resist, and only 2 weaknesses. I'm honestly thinking it could surprise some folks.

 

[Daken]

Halcyon. suggest a build and we can discuss :D

 

[666lumberjack]

Neat idea though I think you are underselling HJK's damage potential and easy spamming bit plus why use Frustration over Return?

HJK isn't bad don't get me wrong, but it's not strong enough to kill bulky Pokemon without a boosting item and Lopunny isn't that bulky even with the slightly boosted defences. I think there's a place for HJK spam as a cleaner but it doesn't fulfill the same role as this set.

Frustration means if Ditto copies you it can't do anything worthwhile.

 

[Durant]

Is there anything physical attacker that can OHKO Mega Slowbro? The only thing I can think of right now is Adamant +2 Mega Heracross; not even CB Adaptability Crawdaunt's Crunch will do the trick.

252+ Atk Choice Band Escavalier Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 312-368 (79.1 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Hustle Durant X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 242-288 (61.4 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 330-390 (83.7 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 218-260 (55.3 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Torterra Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 270-318 (68.5 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

These are strongest attacks against Mega Slowbro in like the whole game and outside of lucky Breloom they can't even OHKO after rocks. Of course special attackers still bop it before it sets up but it looks broken. Can we just quickban this and Mega Salemence before ORAS is even released.

 

[Goodra]

HJK isn't bad don't get me wrong, but it's not strong enough to kill bulky Pokemon without a boosting item and Lopunny isn't that bulky even with the slightly boosted defences. I think there's a place for HJK spam as a cleaner but it doesn't fulfill the same role as this set.

Frustration means if Ditto copies you it can't do anything worthwhile.

I always forget Ditto's existence besides being a breeding slave lol

 

[Force Majeure]

One thing I think people may have overlooked about Salamence is its pretty great support movepool. It gets Defog and Wish, iirc, although I'm not sure about move legality issues. Although Wishmence was always pretty bad, it now has a bit more bulk and can still threaten an awful lot with 145 Attack and Aerilate. Food for thought; I'm just brainstorming at this point.

 

[Turducken64]

Mega altaria is looking to be a good stall mon. Great typing utility in heal bell, great offensive presence and the movepool to lure in would be counters like heatran and ferrothorn. It also has the ability to form a half cleric core with alomomola and other wish users making the use of a dedicated cleric a little less necessary on stall. The sheer amount of mons altaria handles is pretty awesome and its ability to pair well with two of stalls greatest types in my opinion (water and steel) make stall a better choice along with mega slowbro in ORAS.

The only sad thing is +1 charizard has a good chance to 2hko physically defensive altaria after rocks which sucks. Max defense altaria can potentially take on adamant hera after rocks just watch out for crits.

calcs

+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Altaria: 144-171 (40.7 - 48.4%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Altaria: 135-160 (38.2 - 45.3%) -- approx. 3.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Flan76]

you guys are sleeping on my girl mega lopunny............. i'm telling you guys, it's going to be B+ at least in OU. it's going to destroy offense for many, many reasons. first and foremost is that it renders offense's sashers useless. for example, lopunny leads against lead terra/lead chomp on offense, and hits them with fake out. Then it kills them with HJK/ice punch respectively, and voila. You prevented offense from getting up rocks, which gives you a fantastic earlygame advantage. that's how i see it, but maybe lead terra/chomp might not even be used once ORAS comes out. you never know.

 

[Rosen]

wishmence I think will be viable, altho inferior to all the possible offensive sets... but let us not forget that this thing has phys bulk equal to fucken TANGROWTH

 

[CandleJack]

I honestly believe that M-Salamence will be as playable as ZardX is, he may not lose 50% HP when he enters but he still has to enter, unless he does in front of an Earthquake or something easily resisted, (I believe) he can be dealt with the stuff we do have in the meta.

Now considering a DD M-Mence alredy in the plays, he can't deal very well with priorities nor statuses (Prankster Sableye and Thundurus, I am looking to you right now).

In the wallbreaker department, we need to gather some cool builds and test them, testing 8 moves M-Mence against the whole meta is somewhat unfair IMO.

We should also look to his defensive options, they may not be bright right now but it can still be used, as he has Wish, Roost, Substitute, Toxic, Defog (meh) and Roar. I can't say it has been tested agains the meta, but it can be kinda hard to deal with.

Edit: Forgot the Wish!

 

[Wargreymon]

Slowbro is actually looking worse (I mean more problematic) than salamence. If they mega evolve on a physical attacker and calm mind on the switch you're pretty much fucked because at that point what the hell is taking it down?
People are overlooking it's offensive capabilities too. With a massive base 130 attack it will be hitting extremely hard after just 1 boost, unlike most other calm mind sweepers who need multiple. It looks as if it will take no strategy or tactics to play with for the most part, just press calm mind and become invincible. Status is the only thing stopping it but even then it can run a rest talk set.
I can see myself sighing loudly and pressing forfeit against mega slowbro much more than I will against mega salamence.

Slowbro has been taking the same steroids as swampert.

 

[Norne]

I honestly believe that M-Salamence will be as playable as ZardX is, he may not lose 50% HP when he enters but he still has to enter, unless he does in front of an Earthquake or something easily resisted, (I believe) he can be dealt with the stuff we do have in the meta.

Now considering a DD M-Mence alredy in the plays, he can't deal very well with priorities nor statuses (Prankster Sableye and Thundurus, I am looking to you right now).

In the wallbreaker department, we need to gather some cool builds and test them, testing 8 moves M-Mence against the whole meta is somewhat unfair IMO.

We should also look to his defensive options, they may not be bright right now but it can still be used, as he has Wish, Roost, Substitute, Toxic, Defog (meh) and Roar. I can't say it has been tested agains the meta, but it can be kinda hard to deal with.

Edit: Forgot the Wish!

A guily pleasure i had was restalk dd dtail. Who knows if this is posible to abuse with them fairies lurking around.

 

[Cloud_Nine987]

I'm just wrapping up Camerupt's analysis. I'd appreciate it if people checked in on the doc in the OP and read the ones I've done already so that they can be as accurate as preliminary sets can go.

I'm really loving Mega Altaria. It can hard counter Sceptile as it resists grass and fighting, and is 4HKO'd by Earthquake.