Tangela [QC 3/3] [GP 0/2]



Overview
########
  • With stellar physical bulk, Tangela walls threats such as Feraligatr easily.
  • Regenerator makes Tangela very hard to wear down.
  • Unlike most walls, Tangela's defensive set is not passive at all, as it has access to Leech Seed and Sleep Powder.
  • Not enough special bulk to take powerful special attacks.
  • Too over-reliant on Eviolite.
  • Good Spa stat and Regenerator allows Tangela to act as a great offensive pivot.
  • Great firepower with access to Leaf Storm, and Tangela can also limit its common switch-ins with Ancient Power.
Name: Offensive
Move 1: Giga Drain
Move 2: Sleep Powder
Move 3: Hidden Power Fire
Move 4: Leaf Storm / Ancient Power
Nature: Modest
Ability: Regenerator
Item: Eviolite
EVs: 236 HP / 48 Def / 224 SpA

Moves
========

  • Giga Drain is its most reliable STAB move, and allows Tangela to defeat various threats, such as Feraligatr.
  • Sleep Powder cripples common switch-ins such as Dragalge.
  • Hidden Power Fire allows Tangela to 2HKO Ferroseed, as well as other Grass-types.
  • Leaf Storm is very powerful, and allows Tangela to OHKO Feraligatr, as well as grant KOs in conjunction with Tangela's other attacks.
  • Ancient Power hits common switch-ins with super effective damage, including, but not limited to Typhlosion, Magmortar, Scyther, Vivillion, and Rotom-Frost.

Set Details
========
  • The EV HP and Def EVs allows Tangela to always survive +2 Kabuto's Stone Edge after Stealth Rock, while the Spa EVs allows Tangela to hit many threats optimally.

Usage Tips
========
  • Tangela is an excellent pivot with Regenerator as it greatly increases Tangela's survivability
  • Even without much Def investment, Tangela is one of the best walls to a number of dangerous physical attackers, such as Kabutops and Feraligatr.
  • Switch often, as Tangela can survive for an extremely long time thanks to Regenerator, and Regenerator is really the only thing that keeps Tangela healthy
  • Tangela's special bulk is quite mediocre; as such, it wouldn't be wise to leave Tangela in against various Special Attackers.
  • Use Ancient Power to hit common switch-ins hard.
  • Don't use Leaf Storm so recklessly, as Tangela can net a few KOs if Leaf Storm is used after Tangela's other attacks
Team Options
========

  • This set excels in all kinds of teams, as it is able to check threats reliably, as well as provide offensive pressure.
  • Tangela counters Feraligatr extremely well, so take advantage of that when building a team with Tangela.
  • Fire-resistant Pokemon such as Seismitoad, Rhydon, and Dragalge are excellent teammates, as many Pokemon such as Magmortar can check Tangela and proceed to eliminate it with powerful super effective Fire-type attacks.
  • Ice-resistant Pokemon such as Flareon, Magmortar, Ninetales, and Typhlosion are appreciated as they can come in on various Ice-types and provide offensive pressure.
  • Specially bulky Pokemon such as Audino have great synergy with Tangela thanks to Tangela's terrible special bulk.
  • Xatu is a good partner as it can come in on various switch-ins to Tangela, such as Roselia and Garbodor.
Physically Defensive
########

Name: Physically Defensive
Move 1: Leech Seed
Move 2: Sleep Powder / Toxic
Move 3: Giga Drain
Move 4: Hidden Power Fire
Nature: Bold
Ability: Regenerator
Item: Eviolite
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

Moves
========

  • Leech Seed is irreplaceable as it really helps Tangela take down various setup-sweepers such as Gurdurr and Klinklang
  • Sleep Powder allows Tangela to shut down dangerous threats.
  • Giga Drain is a reliable STAB move and allows it to defeat Feraligatr, Rhydon, Kangaskhan, and Golem.
  • Hidden Power Fire allows Tangela to 2HKO Ferroseed, and is a good move against many Grass-types in general.
  • Toxic is a good option over Sleep Powder, as it allows Tangela to defeat many dangerous threats it otherwise can't with Sleep Powder

Set Details
========

  • The EV spread maximises physical bulk as it is needed to wall many threats.

Usage Tips
========

  • Regenerator allows Tangela to pivot in against threats Tangela cannot wall, and helps it provide offensive pressure and crippling support moves throughout the match.
  • Use Leech Seed to force switches, whittle away HP, and to heal Tangela
  • Tangela's mediocre, but useful base Speed stat makes it fast enough to outpace threats it heavily damages, such as Rhydon, Golem, and Regirock.
  • Tangela is not a very passive Pokemon; as a result, it excels in balanced teams and stall teams as it is able to counter threats such as Feraligatr, Shelgon, Fraxure, and Kangaskhan.
  • Try to capitalise on Tangela's ability to counter Feraligatr effortlessly.
  • Tangela has a hard time taking some of the weaker Special Attackers in the tier, so it's best not to switch Tangela against most Special Attackers.
Team Options
========

  • Strong Fire-types such as Rapidash, Flareon, Pyroar, and Magmortar have an easy time switching in and incinerating Tangela; as such, Fire-resistant Pokemon such as Dragalge, Seismitoad, and Rhydon are excellent teammates.
  • Ice-types such as Cryogonal and Articuno pose a threat against it; Ice-resistant Pokemon such as Magmortar, Flareon, Ninetales, and Rotom-F are appreciated as they can come in on various Ice-types and provide offensive pressure.
  • Specially bulky walls such as Audino and Lickilicky have great synergy with this set, as Tangela has abysmal special bulk and appreciates the support from Heal Bell and Wish. Audino also forms a Regenerator core with Tangela, which makes them very hard to break.
  • Specially defensive Flareon makes for a strong core with Tangela, as it is a decent check to various Ice-types and Fire-types, and can provide cleric support with Heal Bell and Wish.
Other Options
########
  • Knock Off cripples common switch-ins such as Ferroseed, Dragalge, and Audino, but Tangela's abysmal attack stat limits its viability.
  • Sludge Bomb is a strong move that allows Tangela hit Slurpuff and various Grass-types hard with super effective damage, but doesn't do much else.
  • Psychic allows Tangela to hit bulky Poison-types hard, such as Garbodor.
  • Synthesis grants instant recovery, but Tangela prefers coverage and utility moves as it often does not need to use Synthesis due to Regenerator.
  • An alternative EV spread of 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD with a Calm Nature may be used to take on threats such as Exeggutor and Mr. Mime more efficiently.
Checks & Counters
########

  • Fire-types have a very easy time switching in against Tangela as the only moves it has that may threaten Fire-types is Leech Seed and Sleep Powder.
  • Bouffalant easily switches in, counters Tangela, and can even get an Attack boost on the switch thanks to Sap Sipper.
  • Bulky Grass-types such as Vileplume don't mind Leech Seed and Sleep Powder, but do not appreciate taking a hit from Tangela's Hidden Power Fire.
  • Xatu can bounce back all of Tangela's status moves, while taking non-Ancient Power sets quite well.
  • Pokemon with the Overcoat ability such as Shelgon and Vullaby do not mind Sleep Powder, but may find Leech Seed, Knock Off, and Hidden Power Ice a nuisance.
  • Knock Off users such as Sawk seriously cripple Tangela's effectiveness, as Eviolite is needed for Tangela to wall threats optimally.
  • Tangela has very bad special bulk, so strong special attackers can easily 2HKO it.
  • Ice-types such as Articuno, Jynx, and Crygonal can easily switch in and kill Tangela with STAB super effective Ice attacks.
 
Last edited:

Ares

Fool me...can't get fooled again
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
-Not sure that Tangela is really to hard to team build around, probably would take that out of the overview
-HP fire can also nail Vileplume on the switch and after a little bit of residual damage can 2HKO because tangela outspeeds
- Under team options make a bit stronger mention about how Audino + Tangela is a good regenerator core, which can be hard to break
-change morning sun to Synthesis under oo, as morning sun is a gen 3 event move and cant be used with regnerator (not 100% sure on that)
-under C&C mention knock off as this seriously affects tangela's ability to take hits
-under C&C also mention special attackers as they can hit tangela hard on the side its weak on
-also Ice types under C&C
-mention maybe somewhere under usage tips that Tangela hard walls Feraligatr as that can be pretty important when building a team (not sure if thats the best spot but it should be mentioned somewhere)
 
Assuming you follow Mont's advice :)
[Overview]
  • Id mention that it faces competution from Vileplume, Ferroseed, and Gourgeist as its only advantage is Regenerator and specialized bulk.
[Physically Defensive]
  • Id remove mentions of Shelgon lol and probably change the order of the moves a bit but it is not very important.
  • Specially defensive flareon makes for a strong core with Tangela as it is a decent check to Ice and Fire types and can heal it from status
  • Seismitoad has decent synergy too
[OO]
  • A more offensive spread with Leaf Storm like last gen should be added here
[C&C]
  • BOUFFALANT
 

Ares

Fool me...can't get fooled again
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
galbia I know I've seen an offensive specs version of tangela running around and it wasnt half bad. I agree that it should be mentioned in oo, as its not quite good enough to warrant a set.
 
I don't know if offensive Tangela is still viable enough to earn an OO as Ferroseed and Dragalge are being used in almost every team.
 

CanadianWifier

Run Away With Me
@above Well, it would carry HP Fire for ferroseed, and Dragalge walls most grass types anyway, so it's not exactly in a special case.

in terms of including an offensive variant as its own set; I certainly wouldn't be opposed to the idea as base 100 SAtk is great with how bulky it is, plus giga drain recovery, but I'll wait and see what others think.
 

CanadianWifier

Run Away With Me
nvm, talked about it on irc. keep it in OO :]



nvm again, we ended up deciding that we would once again wait to see what others think, lol

other QC people, thoughts on including last gen's offensive set again?
 
Last edited:

ryan

Jojo Siwa enthusiast
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Your set is missing an item and ability.

I'll test offensive Tangela and get back to you guys on that one, though I still like offensive Roselia more :pirate:

Oh and if we do add it, it will be Eviolite and not Specs. Don't mention Specs anywhere.
 
Your set is missing an item and ability.

I'll test offensive Tangela and get back to you guys on that one, though I still like offensive Roselia more :pirate:

Oh and if we do add it, it will be Eviolite and not Specs. Don't mention Specs anywhere.
Oh my, really sorry, I think I accidentally deleted the sets item and ability; fixed it.
 

ryan

Jojo Siwa enthusiast
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
So I played some games with offensive, and I think it's good enough for a spot on the analysis. From the few games I played with it, I found it was a really nice switch into lots of physical attackers, much like defensive Tangela, but without dropping too much momentum because it actually hits kind of hard. This is the set I'd recommend:

name: Offensive
move 1: Giga Drain
move 2: Sleep Powder
move 3: Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Leaf Storm / Ancient Power
nature: Modest
ability: Regenerator
item: Eviolite
evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA

It really doesn't need much Speed. All that I ran was a really small amount of creep, and because creeping is discouraged in analyses, I think max HP/SpA is the best way to go. I used Leaf Storm, but fuck it opened up so many free switches to Fire-types, which is annoying because I have to play around Fire-types as it is on the team I used it on. I also never felt that clicking Leaf Storm was the right play, but it's nice to have that extra unexpected damage push. So Leaf Storm / Ancient Power seems like the best option to me.

The team I made was really quickly tossed together, but if you or any other QC members want to test it out, here's the team I tossed together for it:
Tangela @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Flareon @ Choice Band
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Baton Pass
- Superpower
- Quick Attack

Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off

Xatu @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Grass Knot
- Roost
- Heat Wave

Kangaskhan (F) @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch

Klinklang @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Gear Grind
- Return
- Shift Gear
- Substitute
 
So I played some games with offensive, and I think it's good enough for a spot on the analysis. From the few games I played with it, I found it was a really nice switch into lots of physical attackers, much like defensive Tangela, but without dropping too much momentum because it actually hits kind of hard. This is the set I'd recommend:

name: Offensive
move 1: Giga Drain
move 2: Sleep Powder
move 3: Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Leaf Storm / Ancient Power
nature: Modest
ability: Regenerator
item: Eviolite
evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA

It really doesn't need much Speed. All that I ran was a really small amount of creep, and because creeping is discouraged in analyses, I think max HP/SpA is the best way to go. I used Leaf Storm, but fuck it opened up so many free switches to Fire-types, which is annoying because I have to play around Fire-types as it is on the team I used it on. I also never felt that clicking Leaf Storm was the right play, but it's nice to have that extra unexpected damage push. So Leaf Storm / Ancient Power seems like the best option to me.

The team I made was really quickly tossed together, but if you or any other QC members want to test it out, here's the team I tossed together for it:
Tangela @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Flareon @ Choice Band
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Baton Pass
- Superpower
- Quick Attack

Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off

Xatu @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Grass Knot
- Roost
- Heat Wave

Kangaskhan (F) @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch

Klinklang @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Gear Grind
- Return
- Shift Gear
- Substitute
I added your set with a few move slashes, thanks.

I believe this is ready for QC.
 

marilli

With you
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Championis a Former Other Tournament Circuit Champion
Oh god that slashing is really ugly you probably only want to slash Sludge Bomb once it's not exactly the best attacking type out there anyways.

Last gen's Leaf Storm / Sleep Powder has been significantly nerfed because you can't sleep grassers and stuff. Also Leaf Storm cleanly OHKOed the centralizing mons like Jinx back then. It still OHKOs just about every squishy, but NU seem a lot bulkier now, though, and the special attack drop of Leaf Storm actually starts to matter. So I most definitely see the draw in having Giga Drain as your main STAB, but I'm actually not sure if you need both Leaf Storm and Giga Drain in the same set.

Other options could use Stun Spore I remember it being pretty good before, but again meta was a lot faster gen 5.
 

ryan

Jojo Siwa enthusiast
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
The offensive set should really be the one I posted.

Sludge Bomb is bad because it doesn't even hit anything. Vileplume and Ferroseed are the most relevant Grass-types in the tier, and Sludge Bomb does less to them than HP Fire. HP Ice is also bad because it doesn't give you a way to hit Ferroseed, and the only relevant Dragon-type, Dragalge, beats you anyways.
 
The offensive set should really be the one I posted.

Sludge Bomb is bad because it doesn't even hit anything. Vileplume and Ferroseed are the most relevant Grass-types in the tier, and Sludge Bomb does less to them than HP Fire. HP Ice is also bad because it doesn't give you a way to hit Ferroseed, and the only relevant Dragon-type, Dragalge, beats you anyways.
Implemented and kept Sludge Bomb in OO.
 

Blast

Member of the Alien Nation
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
HP Fire should be the first slash on defensive, if not the only one. Hitting Ferro is way too important to pass up tbh and coverage on Pawn + Klinklang is really nice too. Dragons are pretty rare outside of Dragalge (which doesn't care about HP Ice anyway) so I don't think it really deserves a full slash. In a similar vein I would never use Knock Off, especially over HP Fire, since it's weak as shit and it's better left to stronger users of the move. Also iirc Zeb had success with Toxic > Sleep Powder on a stall team so it might be worth a bigger mention too.

Remove Infestation from OO pls it's bad. Psych Up too most likely since Tomb is gone and there really aren't that many bulky CMers Tangela can stand up to anymore.

I also like the offensive set waaay more on basically any non-stall team but I'd get some more QC thoughts first on that.
 

Blast

Member of the Alien Nation
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Expand some more on Usage Tips, like how it can use Regenerator to pivot in against threats it can't outright wall (switch + take the hit + switch into an appropriate resist)

I don't think Pelipper is that great of a teammate for Tangela, it's not a very good answer to Fire-types barring like Flareon and it stacks up on specially frail Pokemon

Mention a more mixed defensive spread in Set Details for Defensive

Remove Toxic from OO

Adrian Marin
 
Expand some more on Usage Tips, like how it can use Regenerator to pivot in against threats it can't outright wall (switch + take the hit + switch into an appropriate resist)

I don't think Pelipper is that great of a teammate for Tangela, it's not a very good answer to Fire-types barring like Flareon and it stacks up on specially frail Pokemon

Mention a more mixed defensive spread in Set Details for Defensive

Remove Toxic from OO

Adrian Marin
Implemented your suggested changes, thanks.

I also talked about the mixed defensive spread for Tangela in #NU, and other QC members don't really seem to like it, so i've been told to keep it in OO.
 

Blast

Member of the Alien Nation
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
"Xatu is a good partner as it can come in on various switch-ins to Tangela, and proceed to provide offensive pressure."

Give some examples of what Xatu can switch into

"Use Leech Seed against setup sweepers such as Shelgon and Fraxure."
I'd mention some different sweepers since these two aren't the most relevant. I'd also note you can use Leech Seed on the switch to whittle away at switchins.

Also since both sets have HP Fire as an unslashed option Ferroseed should be removed from C&C

do and I'll check back later Adrian Marin
 
"Xatu is a good partner as it can come in on various switch-ins to Tangela, and proceed to provide offensive pressure."

Give some examples of what Xatu can switch into

"Use Leech Seed against setup sweepers such as Shelgon and Fraxure."
I'd mention some different sweepers since these two aren't the most relevant. I'd also note you can use Leech Seed on the switch to whittle away at switchins.

Also since both sets have HP Fire as an unslashed option Ferroseed should be removed from C&C

do and I'll check back later Adrian Marin
Implemented, thank you.
 

Blast

Member of the Alien Nation
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Overview should also touch on the offensive set and its niche, it focuses too heavily on the defensive one right now

This is just a small thing but I'd like the offensive set's EVs to be changed to 236 HP / 48 Def / 224 SpA see here for reasoning)

Offensive's UT really only lists like one good point, then the next two should really be in Team Options. Expand on what it switches into, when to use what move, what not to switch it into and when not to, etc etc etc. This section really isn't telling me much of anything atm.

Mention Psychic in OO, hits bulky Poisons
 
Overview should also touch on the offensive set and its niche, it focuses too heavily on the defensive one right now

This is just a small thing but I'd like the offensive set's EVs to be changed to 236 HP / 48 Def / 224 SpA see here for reasoning)

Offensive's UT really only lists like one good point, then the next two should really be in Team Options. Expand on what it switches into, when to use what move, what not to switch it into and when not to, etc etc etc. This section really isn't telling me much of anything atm.

Mention Psychic in OO, hits bulky Poisons
Implemented, thanks.
 

soulgazer

I FEEL INFINITE
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Ancient Power hits common switch-ins with super effective damage, including, but not limited to Typhlosion, Magmortar, Vivillion, and Rotom-F.
Rotom-F for Rotom-Spin (the Flying-type one) or Frost? also add Scyther in there

1/3 Adrian Marin
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top