I agree with that last statement. That's what happened with Lucario and not too many people thought Mawile and Kangaskahn would be broken either. Gengar and Blaziken were obvious though
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Other ORAS Mega Speculation Thread (NO talk about potential bans NOR Aegislash)
- Thread starter Aragorn the King
- Start date
- Status
No, pretty much everyone saw mega kahn's ability and immediately thought "broken". Mega Gar is the one people joked about how we said it "might be good", but even then experienced players knew that mega gar would be "that one mon with good stats and shadow tag" we always dreaded.
Magnezone helps get rid of some of Beedrills counters. But yeah its super frail and the fact that you have to pair it with something limits its viability.
I get the feeling that half of these megas are gonna end up in BL. Too good for UU, too much opportunity cost for OU.
I get the feeling that half of these megas are gonna end up in BL. Too good for UU, too much opportunity cost for OU.
This is true, however we have to consider that with new threats comes new meta shifts. For example with M-Mence there will be more use of Ice Shard users such as Mamoswine and Weavile than there is now. Priority will be much more viable due to the number of megas getting big speed boosts. The aspects of each archetype will be changing because some things have a useful tool for these kind of teams, such as M-Sceptile on rain teams as an electric and grass absorber, M-Altaria as a component to stall teams for all of its useful traits, and so forth. As such the meta will shift in response to these different threats and the partners that will be incorporated with them. Tbh more than half of these will probably end up being used in tiers lower than OU, even UU in the case of something like m-pidgeot and m-glalie.
Aside from some broken-ness, GF did a great job with these Megas and their stat distribution. Almost everything got exactly the boosts they needed in order to be useful.
Now that we know Mega Altaria's stats, I could see something like this working on a stall team:
Support
########
name: Support
move 1: Hyper Voice
move 2: Roost
move 3: Heal Bell / Toxic
move 4: Perish Song
ability: Natural Cure
item: Altarite
evs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 20 SpA / 4 SpD / 16 Spe
nature: Bold
It faces competition from Clefable and Sylveon as a defensive fairy. However, it has better resistances and overall bulk than both of them and can run Perish Song to stop last Pokemon setup sweepers, like CroCune and Mega Slowbro. Very specific EVs. 16 speed to outrun max speed Adamant Azumarill. 20 special attack evs guarantee that Hyper Voice OHKOs Keldeo and Mega Heracross after SR damage. 4 special defense EVs avoids the 2HKO from Timid Zard Y's Fire Blast. 216 Def reaches a bonus point and avoids the 2HKO from +1 Adamant Mega Zard X's Flare Blitz.
Now that we know Mega Altaria's stats, I could see something like this working on a stall team:
Support
########
name: Support
move 1: Hyper Voice
move 2: Roost
move 3: Heal Bell / Toxic
move 4: Perish Song
ability: Natural Cure
item: Altarite
evs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 20 SpA / 4 SpD / 16 Spe
nature: Bold
It faces competition from Clefable and Sylveon as a defensive fairy. However, it has better resistances and overall bulk than both of them and can run Perish Song to stop last Pokemon setup sweepers, like CroCune and Mega Slowbro. Very specific EVs. 16 speed to outrun max speed Adamant Azumarill. 20 special attack evs guarantee that Hyper Voice OHKOs Keldeo and Mega Heracross after SR damage. 4 special defense EVs avoids the 2HKO from Timid Zard Y's Fire Blast. 216 Def reaches a bonus point and avoids the 2HKO from +1 Adamant Mega Zard X's Flare Blitz.
Talonflame is OHKOed by Poison Jab, is crippled by Knock Off, and takes around 25% from U-turn (not much but it 4x resists).
Scizor doesn't take dick from anything Beedrill does, unless it comes in on U-turn and ends up facing down a Magnezone.
Beedrill will be a shitty SD sweeper. In fact it will probably be bad since it has to find time to Mega with its pitiful 65 / 40 / 80 defenses and 75 base speed. It has no ability to survive priority (except Mach Punch... sort of). Its best set will probably be 4 attacks if it even ends up good at all. Despite Adaptability and 150 base attack it has very low BP moves so besides speed none of its stats are particularly impressive.
You people are forgetting the single greatest answer to Mega Slowbro out there.
Kingdra @ Scope Lens
Trait: Sniper
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
-Focus Energy
-Draco Meteor
-Hydro Pump
-some other fourth thing
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro on a critical hit: 505-595 (128.1 - 151%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Eat ya heart out.
Kingdra @ Scope Lens
Trait: Sniper
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
-Focus Energy
-Draco Meteor
-Hydro Pump
-some other fourth thing
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro on a critical hit: 505-595 (128.1 - 151%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Eat ya heart out.
Shell Armor
If only that would work, but alas. Shell Armor iirc.
And this is why I hate this game.
People seem to really downplay Mega Altaria for some reason:
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 216 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 331-391 (87.7 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Double-Edge vs. 216 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 390-459 (103.4 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 280-330 (71 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 327-385 (82.9 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 421-496 (65.5 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Double-Edge vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 493-582 (76.7 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- SpA Mega Altaria Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 206-244 (61.6 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- SpA Mega Altaria Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 236-280 (67 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 175-207 (44.4 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Double-Edge vs. 216 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 390-459 (103.4 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 280-330 (71 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 327-385 (82.9 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 421-496 (65.5 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Double-Edge vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 493-582 (76.7 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- SpA Mega Altaria Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 206-244 (61.6 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- SpA Mega Altaria Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 236-280 (67 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 175-207 (44.4 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
how viable you guys think a full physical Mega Sceptile would be, I mean his physical movepool is arguably better than the special as it gets Dragon claw, Outrage, Drain Punch, Leaf Blade , Earthquake.... ect and also a great boosting move in swords Dance, So a physical Set might actually work even better than the mixed set
Niche at best. 145 SPA is simply too good to pass up, especially with potential lightningrod boosts. I see this being a more niche counter-teamy type of thing then anything else.
I just feel like his special Movepool is lacking and doesnt really take advantage of his special attack, I mean will it really be able to clean up that effectively when Leaf Strom leaves you at -2 and Dragon pulse is kinda "meh", plus you are almost forced to run earthquake and some Atk investment, and the lackluster hp fire
Just wait for the big guys hogging all the attention to leave once the metagame settles, and certain megas make an exit, I'm sure Altaria will receive the attention she deserves. Right now with things like Mega Scept/Pert/Mence/Gross/Bro it is hard to get as much attention when you don't have an overkill stat like the above mentioned, even more so when your strengths tend to be more type oriented than numbers.
So earlier I made a post about how sick it would be for Mega Metagross to get Heavy Slam. That didn't end up happening which is disappointing but I'm over it already. Anyway, the heights and weights of all the megas have all been leaked (http://pastebin.com/AKm9Bspb) and one thing I've noticed is that Mega Steelix is 1631.4 lbs and unlike Metagross it actually gets Heavy Slam. For Mega Steelix, anything under 326.2 is hit with 120 BP. And just like my HS Mega Metagross, this means most of OU gets the full 120, the only new exceptions being Mega Venusaur and Magnezone.
Let's get one thing straight though. I'm not saying Mega Steelix will be OU viable at all. All I'm trying to show is that Mega Steelix now has something to make it worth using over Mega Aggron in the lower tiers. For a while there it was looking like it was going to be completely outclassed by it but now it's got a more powerful Heavy Slam and STAB Earthquake over it.
And holy shit at Mega Hoopa being 21 feet tall.
have fun trying to break ferrothorn or skarmory with that mighty itemless base 110 attack stat, which after a swords dance risks getting koed by both
Does the new weight of a Pokemon count the first turn you Mega Evolve it? If that's the case, Mega Steelix can hit some huge Heavy Slams.
he doesnt do that good against them anyhow, maybe better agaisnt ferrothorn but no way of getting past skarm, and please lets not get sarcastic here im just giving out ideas
Edit: +2 252+ Atk Sceptile Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 214-254 (60.7 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (90 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 132-156 (46.9 - 55.5%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
Beats Ferrothorn Fairly easy after SD and ferrothorn cant touch him
as for Skarm I already said no way can he touch it even with 252 SPA and HP fire:
252 SpA Sceptile Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 190-224 (56.8 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 272-324 (96.7 - 115.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
Last edited:
Draining Kiss is weak even after some CMs and Wish is not reliable without Protect to back it up. Run Dazzling Gleam for your mono-attack and replace CM with Protect.
But Draining Kiss sounds pretty :( nah I'm kidding I will replace it with Dazzling Gleam and I'll Add Protect too thanks :) also do you think it is bulky enough to be a good support?
My last posting of this calc didn't factor in Adaptability:
252+ SpA Adaptability Mega Beedrill Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 188-224 (47.7 - 56.8%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO
This is just fucking hilarious.
252+ SpA Adaptability Mega Beedrill Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 188-224 (47.7 - 56.8%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO
This is just fucking hilarious.
Alright, now that the "official stats" are released for Mega Altaria, I'm gonna make a few changes.I think that Mega Altaria will be very good depending on what its EV spread will be. Here is a set I came up with:
Base Stats: 75/110/100/110/105/90
Altaria @ Altarite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 112 HP 252 Atk 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Roost
- Double-Edge/Return
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
Moves
In my opinion, Mega Altaria will be best with a physical moveset. I used Pokemondb's type coverage calculator ( http://pokemondb.net/tools/type-coverage ) and found out that Fairy and Ground have the best coverage together, hitting almost every pokemon in OU for neutral damage, not including Skarmory and Talonflame/Charizard. This set is similar to Mega Charizard's bulky DD roost set in that it has Roost, DD, and 2 coverage moves. Since Mega Alt has such great typing in Fairy and Dragon, with key resistances/immunities to Fighting, Bug, Water, Fire, Electric, Grass, Dark, and Dragon, it can set up on a lot of pokemon roosting off damage, and DDancing. I chose Double-Edge over Return because Mega Alt will not have a very high attack stat, so I think the extra power will be necessary. However, if you don't want to take the recoil from Double-Edge, you can run return.
EV Spread
The given EVs in speed are to outspeed standard Timid Greninja after a Dragon Dance, so Mega Alt can OHKO Greninja with a Double Edge and not get hit hard with an ice beam. Here are the EVs needed to outspeed Greninja with different base speed stats:
85- 184 Spe
90- 144 Spe
95- 104 Spe
100- 64 Spe
(Basically you just want Altaria to hit 252 Speed)
I put max EVs in attack with an adamant nature because I doubt Mega Altaria will have an attack stat higher than 110, so it will need the Attacks to hit hard. However, I did not calc anything involving attack, so I don't know if it can use a little less.
I put the rest of the EVs into HP to provide for better bulk. If you wanted to, you could move the EVs into defense to take physical hits better, because I think that Mega Altaria will be taking more physical hits than special ones.
Teammates
As I said before, the only relevant pokemon that resist both or Mega Alt's coverage moves is Skarmory, Talonflame, and Charizard Y. Ferrothorn can also come in and take an earthquake, and OHKO Mega Alt with Gyro Ball. Because of this, I think that Scarfed Magnezone will be a really good partner with Mega Altaria. It can trap and kill Ferrothorn and Skarmory to free up Mega Altaria for a sweep. Heatran is also a good partner as it can deal with most sets of Talonflame and Charizard Y. It can also hit Ferrothorn and Skarmory with Lava Plume or Overheat. Mega Alt will appreciate a cleric like Clefairy, Sylveon, or Chansey because it won't like taking burns, paralysis, or toxic. Also, a defogger/spinner like Excadrill, Latios, or Latias will be good because Mega Alt will not like switching in when Stealth Rocks are up.
Conclusion
I would really like to hear what you guys think about Mega Altaria and its best possible sets, so just reply to this post with what you think.
Thanks for taking the time to read!
First off, Mega Altaria's base stats have been shown as 75/110/110/110/105/80. I was a little off on my prediction, putting 10 points in Speed instead of Defense. However, everything else stayed the same. Now, to outspeed Greninja after a Dragon Dance, you will need to run 224 Speed EVs, so for an offensive spread I would use this:
Altaria @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Roost
- Double-Edge/Return
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Roost
- Double-Edge/Return
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
Offensive Mega Altaria will not be able to take hits as well, but thanks to its typing, it has many key resistances that will help it set up. Same things as before, Eq for Heatran, Double-Edge to hit hard, and DDance + Roost for Set-up. Any Steel types would pair well with it, namely Magnezone and Heatran. Defogger/Spinner to clear hazards like Lati@s or Excadrill because MAlt does not like switching into attacks with hazards up.
As for a more defensive set for MAlt, I was thinking something like this:
Altaria
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Heal Bell
- Roost
- Return
- Roar
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Heal Bell
- Roost
- Return
- Roar
This set is more of a Cleric for Stall. Return over Hyper Voice for the extra 10 base power and because the Atk and Spatk stats are the same. With the given EVs Altaria is 3HKO'ed on a return from Mega Salamence. It can then hit back with a Stab Pixilate Return. Altaria can also counter/check Both Mega Zards, Keldeo, Lati@s, Landorus-T, Garchomp, Mega-Gyarados, Mega-Heracross, Mega Medicham, Terrakion, Mega-Sceptile, Mega-Sableye, Thundurus, Tyranitar, Rotom-W, Mega Manectric, Dragonite, Conkeldurr, Breloom, Hawlucha, Crawdaunt, The list goes on... Roar is to phaze out Set-up Sweepers so they can't DDance or CM on Mega Altaria. Good teammates for Mega Alt would be mons that can handle Bisharp, Kyurem-Black, Greninja, Excadrill, Scizor, Gardevoir, Gengar, Stallbreakers, and Bird Spam.
I am really interested what you guys think too, so please replay with your thoughts on Mega-Altaria
- Status