i think altaria will work best on balanced teams but magnezone + altaria sounds promising on offense. not exactly an original concept but altaria reallllllly hates steels (namely skarmory, ferrothorn, and scizor). altho that sounds bisharp and tran weak so keldeo would b great w/ altaria as well
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Other ORAS Mega Speculation Thread (NO talk about potential bans NOR Aegislash)
- Thread starter Aragorn the King
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lol its by no chance a counter just a little somthing i found though i plan to run pin missile at some point for the lols besides a free 100 bp attack never hurt. but since slow bro cant kill it unboosted you can always take another chance with dat pin missile and hope to get 3 hitsM-Beedrill is a train but 5 hits is lucky0 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Beedrill: 130-154 (47.9 - 56.8%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO , beedrill is so frail , i think specs raikou is best check for m slowbro
Mega-Pidgeot and Talonflame could make a great offensive core. They have similar coverage but hit on different sides of the spectrum so they can weaken each others counters. Talonflame hates SR but Pidgeot has one of the fastest Defogs in the game. Heatran and Tyranitar are huge problems for this core, so something like Specs Keldeo would be a great partner.
I was doing some calcs and holy shit mega sharpedo packs a punch. It's crunch hits 5-7% harder than beedrills adaptability x scissor.
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 292-344 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 314-372 (79.6 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Ice fang has a 30% chance at OHKO'ing max defence gliscor. Guaranteed OHKO after rocks. I know it's 4x effective but it's a non STAB 65BP move against a physical wall. Sucks that waterfall is weaker than life orb sharpedo but with 105 + a speed boost it's extremely fast and crunch is devastating. It's just very slightly weaker than pinsirs return.
This guy could be a fearsome late game cleaner. It's just a shame that it got such a small boost to attack, but I guess the bulk was needed.
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 292-344 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 314-372 (79.6 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Ice fang has a 30% chance at OHKO'ing max defence gliscor. Guaranteed OHKO after rocks. I know it's 4x effective but it's a non STAB 65BP move against a physical wall. Sucks that waterfall is weaker than life orb sharpedo but with 105 + a speed boost it's extremely fast and crunch is devastating. It's just very slightly weaker than pinsirs return.
This guy could be a fearsome late game cleaner. It's just a shame that it got such a small boost to attack, but I guess the bulk was needed.
Hi,
Haven't be able to sift through all these pages but I'd like to bring up Gallade again. I think he is going to be a beast quite frankly. I really like his stat distribution. Also, I think he is going to have a versatility to him that most mega evolutions do not have. With a buff to his defense stat, now he can run Bulk Up much more effectively and in conjunction with Taunt to stop phazers and status users. An anti-lead set with Taunt may also work; Gallade learns Shadow Sneak to pick off those Focus Sash users and Inner Focus to stop Fake Out. Status such as Will-O-Wisp or even Toxic are also interesting ideas, only problem is Gliscor but Gallade does learn Ice Punch. Then there's the Swords Dance set that at +2 will OHKO MEGA Metagross with Knock Off, 2HKO MEGA Slowbro (don't get burnt) and do serious damage elsewhere. Think Mega Heracross but in a different (better) speed tier. Gallade also has interesting support moves like Encore and Destiny Bond but now I'm just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. I had a butt load of cool calcs too but I hit 'backspace' and it brought me to a previous page and am now rewriting this and don't have the time to do them over. Point being, Mega Gallade is a pretty solid addition.
Haven't be able to sift through all these pages but I'd like to bring up Gallade again. I think he is going to be a beast quite frankly. I really like his stat distribution. Also, I think he is going to have a versatility to him that most mega evolutions do not have. With a buff to his defense stat, now he can run Bulk Up much more effectively and in conjunction with Taunt to stop phazers and status users. An anti-lead set with Taunt may also work; Gallade learns Shadow Sneak to pick off those Focus Sash users and Inner Focus to stop Fake Out. Status such as Will-O-Wisp or even Toxic are also interesting ideas, only problem is Gliscor but Gallade does learn Ice Punch. Then there's the Swords Dance set that at +2 will OHKO MEGA Metagross with Knock Off, 2HKO MEGA Slowbro (don't get burnt) and do serious damage elsewhere. Think Mega Heracross but in a different (better) speed tier. Gallade also has interesting support moves like Encore and Destiny Bond but now I'm just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. I had a butt load of cool calcs too but I hit 'backspace' and it brought me to a previous page and am now rewriting this and don't have the time to do them over. Point being, Mega Gallade is a pretty solid addition.
You want to run 160/252/96 on Mega Metagross, at least until the inevitable Salamencite ban. That spread lets it come in on Mega Salamence after a kill, tank a SE Earthquake/Fire Blast as long as it's not +1 EQ out of a 252+ Atk Mence, and set up Agility before it outspeeds and OHKOs every (relevant, because come on, you aren't running 252/252+ HP/Def) Salamence at +1 or below with Ice Punch and proceeds to countersweep.
Lucario had a 120 BP move to use Adapatability with, and could go special/mixed if it wanted.
252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Jirachi: 310-366 (76.7 - 90.5%)
252+ Atk Adaptability Beedrill X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Jirachi: 214-252 (52.9 - 62.3%)
Base power of moves really matter, it's why Altaria could end up being a decent dragon dance sweeper despite the low base attack (110 base Pixilate Return hits harder than X-zard 130 base Tough Claws Dragon Claw.)
The coverage is also very poor, Fighting STAB is pretty good to begin with but Lucario had plenty of coverage to go with it. Bug/Poison is awful, notably resisted by steel (and Ghost and Poison I guess,) and there's also numerous dual types that will make excellent checks to it, namely Gliscor, LandoT, Aerodactyl, and Terrakion.
There's also 65/40/80 bulk compared to Luke's 70/88/70. Beedrill is frail as hell, and weak to sneaky stones to boot.
So yeah, Beedrill got a massive improvement and will probably be viable enough in OU, which is pretty amazing for something that has been a total shitmon for the last ~15 years, but I personally don't expect all that much out if it.
I know this is supposed to be competitive discussion, but just hear me out for a second. Did you all notice anything odd about the new mega evolutions...? Such as that... They are all usable by the elite four back in RSE?
Elaboration:
Sidney: Mega Absol
Phoebe: Mega Sableye
Glacia: Mega Glalie
Drake: Mega Salamence
Steven: Mega Metagross
Really hoping gamefreak does this ^^ then it would truly be the Elite Four.
Back on the competitive scene, which set do you guys think will be more viable for mega salamence: a dragon dance set or a roost set? This is what I'm thinking so far:
Salamence @ mega stone
Intimidate --> Aerialate
Adamant
- dragon dance
- Return
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake/Fire Blast
Salamence @ mega stone
Intimidate --> Aerialate
Jolly
Double Edge
Dragon Claw
Earthquake
Roost
Return on the DD set due to it inflicting no damage and providing opportunities to sweep further after a DD boost. Likewise, double edge on the roost set for more power and since you can heal that damage away. As I said though, this is just a rough draft, what are you guy's opinions?
Elaboration:
Sidney: Mega Absol
Phoebe: Mega Sableye
Glacia: Mega Glalie
Drake: Mega Salamence
Steven: Mega Metagross
Really hoping gamefreak does this ^^ then it would truly be the Elite Four.
Back on the competitive scene, which set do you guys think will be more viable for mega salamence: a dragon dance set or a roost set? This is what I'm thinking so far:
Salamence @ mega stone
Intimidate --> Aerialate
Adamant
- dragon dance
- Return
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake/Fire Blast
Salamence @ mega stone
Intimidate --> Aerialate
Jolly
Double Edge
Dragon Claw
Earthquake
Roost
Return on the DD set due to it inflicting no damage and providing opportunities to sweep further after a DD boost. Likewise, double edge on the roost set for more power and since you can heal that damage away. As I said though, this is just a rough draft, what are you guy's opinions?
I'm not going to sift through all these pages but has anyone thought about Mega-Mence in a supportive role? It has a lot of offensive potential but it has some interesting support options like Wish and Tailwind.
Salamence @ Salamencite (?)
Whatever evs
Nature? Idk
- Tailwind / Protect
- Roost / Wish
- Return
- Earthquake
I chose Return over a dragon STAB for a much more reliable attack and since most fairies are more vulnerable on the physical side of the spectrum. For example, with an Adamant nature and NO investment, Mega Mence's Return is a clean 2HKO on physically defensive Clefable.
Tailwind is the the dopest part though since Mence is probably going to be forcing mad switches so it will have time to set up Tailwind. With it's and bulk plus it's recovery it would be able to get multiple times throughout the match. That speed also lets it outspeed most taunters outside like Mega Aero or something.
Wish is a schweet event option it gets too, and it'd give it a niche as an offensive wish passer in OU since it could wish with little opportunity cost cause no one likes staying in on that Aerilate Return. Except Rotom-W or Mega Aero.
Salamence @ Salamencite (?)
Whatever evs
Nature? Idk
- Tailwind / Protect
- Roost / Wish
- Return
- Earthquake
I chose Return over a dragon STAB for a much more reliable attack and since most fairies are more vulnerable on the physical side of the spectrum. For example, with an Adamant nature and NO investment, Mega Mence's Return is a clean 2HKO on physically defensive Clefable.
Tailwind is the the dopest part though since Mence is probably going to be forcing mad switches so it will have time to set up Tailwind. With it's and bulk plus it's recovery it would be able to get multiple times throughout the match. That speed also lets it outspeed most taunters outside like Mega Aero or something.
Wish is a schweet event option it gets too, and it'd give it a niche as an offensive wish passer in OU since it could wish with little opportunity cost cause no one likes staying in on that Aerilate Return. Except Rotom-W or Mega Aero.
M-Salamence might end up being suspected, but to autmatically assume that it will be banned when we have so many powerful megas in our hands now is downright asinine.
Personally I don't think it will ever be banned. It's just a Megazard X with a worse dual STAB and better speed.
Can someone tell me why Megagross is supposed to have weak moves? It has good physical and special moves it can abuse including stabs like zheadbutt and meteor mash. It has all elemenal punches, Grass Knot Earthquake....I think the movepool is good enough. And compared to Mega Garchomp its ability constantly boosts you attacks. IMO Megagross > Megachomp
Btw which Pokemon would you trade up from gen 3 till ORAS? I think it is funny that his is possible now. My really old teams are long gone, but maybe I can trade something unique, any ideas?
Btw which Pokemon would you trade up from gen 3 till ORAS? I think it is funny that his is possible now. My really old teams are long gone, but maybe I can trade something unique, any ideas?
haunter
Banned deucer.
Better HP, Attack, Defense, Special Defense and Speed. Not to mention that, unlike Zard-X, Salamence has 2 usable abilities before it mega evolves and doesn't automatically lose 50% of its health by just switching in when SR is on the field. Now, I agree that Mega-Mence is not as blatantly broken as some people seem to imply, but by defining it a Zard-X with worse dual stab, you're definitely underselling it. Besides, it's common knowledge that there was a large demand to test Zard-X before OR/AS, so even if M-Salamence happens to be just marginally better than it, chances are it's gonna get suspect tested.
Anyway, I'd appreciate if this thread didn't turn into a pre-suspect discussion on certain new Mega evolutions. We'll discuss about the potential suspect status of certain Pokémon when the metagame stabilizes.
Salamence is not even OU these days. Interesting eh?
MegaMence rectifies a few of its problems.
It's not a lot more powerful than LO Mence but thanks to Aerilate it gets a free LO boost to Flying STAB so it evens out for some moves.
The real amazing thing about it is its speed and defense boosts. That adds so much versatility, resistance to revenge killing and setup opportunities.
It might all be enough to make Salamence relevant again instead of relatively unused.
I'm not sure if it will be quite as scary as imagined.
MegaMence rectifies a few of its problems.
It's not a lot more powerful than LO Mence but thanks to Aerilate it gets a free LO boost to Flying STAB so it evens out for some moves.
The real amazing thing about it is its speed and defense boosts. That adds so much versatility, resistance to revenge killing and setup opportunities.
It might all be enough to make Salamence relevant again instead of relatively unused.
I'm not sure if it will be quite as scary as imagined.
Apologies, only seeing this now. I meant being able to use them though, the data is there but you aren't allowed to play with the mega lati twins even in custom battles. :(
You're about 14 hours behind, friend.
Just so that this post isn't complete spam, it's interesting to note that, assuming max investment, Mega Salamence has effective 95 / 220 / 90 defenses after Intimidate (about base 204 with minimum investment). By comparison, Mega Slowbro has 95 / 180 / 80. So yeah, this thing is bulkier than an equally invested Mega Slowbro after that initial switch-in, along with amazing speed, great dual offenses, the raw power of Aerilate-boosted Returns, all the coverage it needs to pulverize checks to Flying + Ground coverage...sorry, but this thing is disgusting.
Metagross is going to be a boss. Base 150 defence is freaking higher than regular groudon. It will definitely suffer from 4MSS though considering certain things will be able to wall it, and meteor mash having less than desirable accuracy is really annoying.
Looks like a definite A+. Not sure about S rank though, it might have the potential but with the release of its stats and the fact that it didn't get a giant attack boost it looks a lot more manageable than I originally imagined.
Looks like a definite A+. Not sure about S rank though, it might have the potential but with the release of its stats and the fact that it didn't get a giant attack boost it looks a lot more manageable than I originally imagined.
Not much talk on Mega-Audino.
Granted the other new megas are definitely outshining it (megabro megamance), but bulky mon is bulky. And one of the few with a decent HP stat to back up a better typing.And it's the best wish-Chancey clone we've got so far (for us that use the battle spot).
Granted the other new megas are definitely outshining it (megabro megamance), but bulky mon is bulky. And one of the few with a decent HP stat to back up a better typing.
Okay, so we've updated the document with analyses on almost ALL of the new megas! The level of cooperation here on Smogon is truly impressive. That being said, there are a few that lack analyses which we plan to finish up pretty soon.
tobybro? Care to elaborate for those who don't know what that is?
Oh geez that one is really obscure.
Tobybro is a Slowbro set from the original first red and blue. The set was amnesia, thunder wave, rest, and surf. And that's it because it's red and blue.
LO Breloom has a better chance of the OHKO (252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (4 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 344-404 (87.3 - 102.5%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock), resists scald, and can also threaten a spore.
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