Champetero
srk1214
pwnemon
srk1214
pwnemon
Last edited by a moderator:
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Doubles CAP Project thread! Stage 8: Stat Limits
- Thread starter Stratos
- Start date
- Status
Champetero
Pwnemon
Srk1214
Pwnemon
Srk1214
Stratos
Banned deucer.
Champetero
Pwnemon
srk1214
I'd put champetero's in front of mine except that the problem with sand lies so squarely with tyranitar i'm afraid we'll be pigeonholed into just making a sand setter which is kind of lame. srk1214's concept seems kind of...redundant with megamence coming out in a month.
Edit: on second thought, champetero's concept sounds the best
Pwnemon
srk1214
I'd put champetero's in front of mine except that the problem with sand lies so squarely with tyranitar i'm afraid we'll be pigeonholed into just making a sand setter which is kind of lame. srk1214's concept seems kind of...redundant with megamence coming out in a month.
Edit: on second thought, champetero's concept sounds the best
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Champetero
Pwnemon
Srk1214
Pwnemon
Srk1214
champetero
Or just make something that can help ttar, you think it has a piss Ton of weaknesses but it's really just the insane usage of lando and horses. Which aren't incredibly hard to beat
Pwnemon
champetero
srk1214
champetero
srk1214
slayerx725232
"to sea, or not to sea" ~Melodramatic Sailor
Pwnemon
champetero
srk1214
champetero
srk1214
champetero
srk1214
Pwnemon
srk1214
Pwnemon
srk1214 - sounds like too much fun to pass up. Since nothing is currently broken, I'm legitimately curious how much it will take to make something so good it's ban worthy.
Champetero - Sand is underrated IMO and this will make one my favorite play styles more viable.
Pwnemon - I honestly dislike this one. Sounds like it'll turn into perish trap (no pun intended), which I hate.
Champetero - Sand is underrated IMO and this will make one my favorite play styles more viable.
Pwnemon - I honestly dislike this one. Sounds like it'll turn into perish trap (no pun intended), which I hate.
Pwnemon is a butt who sleeps in late. Fine, I'll tally these votes.
Congrats to champetero! Our concept will be "The Forgotten Sand."
Code:
VOTING RESULTS
1. champetero
2. pwnemon
3. srk
VOTING ROUNDS
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Array ( [srk] => 2 [pwnemon] => 10 [champetero] => 11)
Array ( [pwnemon] => 10 [champetero] => 13)
----------------------------------------------
Array ( [srk] => 7 [pwnemon] => 14)Stratos
Banned deucer.
i dont sleep in late u turd i have class at 9
Now time for the next step in the process, Concept Assessment! For lack of a better definition, this is where we decide what our Pokemon will need to do to fulfill the concept. There really isn't much more to it.
The CAP so far:
Concept:
Now time for the next step in the process, Concept Assessment! For lack of a better definition, this is where we decide what our Pokemon will need to do to fulfill the concept. There really isn't much more to it.
The CAP so far:
Concept:
This stage will probably last for around 24 hours.champetero said:
Stratos
Banned deucer.
OK, here are my thoughts on the situation.
Sand has a couple things going for it. One, of course, is that Excadrill GOTTA GO FAST under Sand. The other is that Tyranitar can easily exploit the fact that half of the metagame is weak to Rock.
As for its flaws? They all fall right back on Tyranitar, who's got a lot of weaknesses in the current meta. Kangaskhan and Landorus-T are the two big ones especially since Landorus-T also handily beats Excadrill, but also Terrakion, Keldeo, Bisharp, Rotom-W, Scizor, Mawile... Basically, Tyranitar is a liability in the current metagame and it holds sand back. Also, there's a lot of similar checks and counters between Tyranitar and Excadrill, though I know that koolkranny actually used that to his advantage on his sand team by running a full on beatdown offense.
So when it comes to fixing sand, I think we can do it one of three ways. 1) we could just straight up replace Tyranitar. Make a new sand setter that fits the current meta better. But then we lose the upside of being able to shit rock slides all over the place. 2) we could replace Excadrill with a Pokemon that complements Ttar a little better. As it is, all Exca can handle for Ttar are steel types; everything else Tar loses to, so does Exca. 3) we could make a Pokemon alongside to complement both Tyranitar and Excadrill.
I personally am at the moment leaning towards door number 2. Aside from being fast, excadrill doesn't really have too much going for it. It can't quake next to tar, it loses to what tar loses to, and it's completely inferior to The Better Ground aside from Sand Rush. If we gave Sand an abuser that actually covered its ass a little better (like ludicolo does for rain, beating water, grass, and dragon types) then I think that would be a huge favor to both Tyranitar and Sand in general.
Sand has a couple things going for it. One, of course, is that Excadrill GOTTA GO FAST under Sand. The other is that Tyranitar can easily exploit the fact that half of the metagame is weak to Rock.
As for its flaws? They all fall right back on Tyranitar, who's got a lot of weaknesses in the current meta. Kangaskhan and Landorus-T are the two big ones especially since Landorus-T also handily beats Excadrill, but also Terrakion, Keldeo, Bisharp, Rotom-W, Scizor, Mawile... Basically, Tyranitar is a liability in the current metagame and it holds sand back. Also, there's a lot of similar checks and counters between Tyranitar and Excadrill, though I know that koolkranny actually used that to his advantage on his sand team by running a full on beatdown offense.
So when it comes to fixing sand, I think we can do it one of three ways. 1) we could just straight up replace Tyranitar. Make a new sand setter that fits the current meta better. But then we lose the upside of being able to shit rock slides all over the place. 2) we could replace Excadrill with a Pokemon that complements Ttar a little better. As it is, all Exca can handle for Ttar are steel types; everything else Tar loses to, so does Exca. 3) we could make a Pokemon alongside to complement both Tyranitar and Excadrill.
I personally am at the moment leaning towards door number 2. Aside from being fast, excadrill doesn't really have too much going for it. It can't quake next to tar, it loses to what tar loses to, and it's completely inferior to The Better Ground aside from Sand Rush. If we gave Sand an abuser that actually covered its ass a little better (like ludicolo does for rain, beating water, grass, and dragon types) then I think that would be a huge favor to both Tyranitar and Sand in general.
So it seems to me that the biggest problem with Sand is that fewer viable Pokemon can directly benefit from Sand than can from Rain or Sun. Rain in particular has a lot of benefits, such as enabling Mega Manectric or Thundurus-T etc to use Thunder. It also makes Pokemon like Escavalier, Scizor, Mawile, or Ferrothorn much more resilient against Fire types and more generally makes opposing Fire types bad. Sun does many of these sorts of things in reverse, albeit less game-changingly so (although Chlorophyll + Sleep Powder is something Rain lacks). Raising the special defense of Rock types just isn't enough in a metagame where Rock is such a bad defensive typing.
Sand by contrast just doesn't have as much that can benefit. It doesn't boost the power of anything except for Pokemon with Sand Force (none of which are particularly good) and the only viable Pokemon with Sand Rush, Excadrill, stacks with Tyranitar in many ways. Sand, in short, just isn't diverse enough. Merely making a better Tyranitar would not make Sand as viable a weather as Rain and Sun. Nor do I think making a better Excadrill is necessary. Excadrill is pretty decent, even though it doesn't like Intimidate. You could go ahead and make a Specially based Sand Rush Pokemon, much like Rain has Ludi and Kingdra and Sun has Venusaur, so that it's not so easily disrupted by Intimidates, but I'm not sure that's quite enough.
Sand seems to me the sort of playstyle that is more in need of specific support more than anything. Togekiss is already pretty good on Sand teams (as it is everywhere) but there's not too much else that obviously fits in well on a Sand team. There's a reason the most successful sand team I've seen recently is koolkranny's HO, which suffers from being very matchup dependent. There just isn't the right set of options to make a more balanced Sand team.
Sand by contrast just doesn't have as much that can benefit. It doesn't boost the power of anything except for Pokemon with Sand Force (none of which are particularly good) and the only viable Pokemon with Sand Rush, Excadrill, stacks with Tyranitar in many ways. Sand, in short, just isn't diverse enough. Merely making a better Tyranitar would not make Sand as viable a weather as Rain and Sun. Nor do I think making a better Excadrill is necessary. Excadrill is pretty decent, even though it doesn't like Intimidate. You could go ahead and make a Specially based Sand Rush Pokemon, much like Rain has Ludi and Kingdra and Sun has Venusaur, so that it's not so easily disrupted by Intimidates, but I'm not sure that's quite enough.
Sand seems to me the sort of playstyle that is more in need of specific support more than anything. Togekiss is already pretty good on Sand teams (as it is everywhere) but there's not too much else that obviously fits in well on a Sand team. There's a reason the most successful sand team I've seen recently is koolkranny's HO, which suffers from being very matchup dependent. There just isn't the right set of options to make a more balanced Sand team.
I back up srk when he says that we shouldn't just try to replace Excadrill. Sand already lacks viable sweepers (using Pokemon that just resist sandstorm damage doesn't make it a sand team), and the playstyle hurts because Landorus-T and fast fighting types/mach punch users dominate the meta (as they are the most reliable answers to Mega Kanga/Bisharp that just happen to fuck sand entirely). If we just make a better excadrill, people can just as easily find a Pokemon that counters this new core. For this reason, I think pwne's option three is the best, because sand's biggest weaknesses are the lack of versatility and the prevalence of Pokemon that single-handedly beat sand's two threats alone (see Landorus-T, Conkeldurr, Breloom, Rotom-W, Hitmontop, Politoed, and many more)
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