Special Season 7, aka NO KANGA META

[Age of Kings]

Format: Doubles
Eligibility: All Pokemon in the Hoenn regional Pokedex
Banlist: Everything not in the Hoenn regional Pokedex, Groudon, Kyogre, Jirachi, and Deoxys

The Hoenn dex has been leaked: http://pastebin.com/G9Xz7Kkm

This will be the first season of a split Battle Spot, so there will be additional regulations according to which game you are playing. All generation 6 games are eligible to participate, but XY will compete separately from OR/AS.

OR/AS League - KB only.

X/Y League - transfers allowed.

Because all BW2 tutors have returned for OR/AS, the main difference between the two metagames will be the presence of the new megas.

What do you guys plan on running in this new metagame?

 

[NOVED]

There's actually 0 mons that can deal with Special M-Salamence's coverage.

 

[Feliburn]

There's actually 0 mons that can deal with Special M-Salamence's coverage.

Yeah Meganence will be like the new Megakang, everyone will start using it, probably I'll start using mega swamp, is bulky enough to tank hits and can hit back with ice beam/ice punch for heavy damage

 

[EnGarde]

Yeah, I'm thinking mega salamence as well. It can even provide intimidate support as usual before mega evolving, so physical checks are mostly out. I think that empty space on everybody's team from the mega khan check should go to a dedicated mega 'mence check.

EDIT: Feliburn is a ninja. ^_^

 

[Age of Kings]

There's actually 0 mons that can deal with Special M-Salamence's coverage.

252 SpA Aerilate Salamence Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 58-69 (28 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Aerilate Salamence Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Altaria: 67-81 (36.8 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

[Valzy]

Yeah Meganence will be like the new Megakang, everyone will start using it, probably I'll start using mega swamp, is bulky enough to tank hits and can hit back with ice beam/ice punch for heavy damage

Ice Punch is never a guareenteed OHKO, even at 252+ vs 0/0 with no intimidate. Ice Beam can OHKO with 176 vs 0/0

 

[NOVED]

252 SpA Aerilate Salamence Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 58-69 (28 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Aerilate Salamence Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Altaria: 67-81 (36.8 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Ah fair enough, looked over altaria.
I don't really consider AV azu a threat in doubles though. Lack of protect just makes it easier to handle with mence's teammate imo.

 

[EnGarde]

252 SpA Aerilate Salamence Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 58-69 (28 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Aerilate Salamence Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Altaria: 67-81 (36.8 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

I'm pretty far along on the hype train when it comes to mega'mence, so the fact that it needs team support to help it deal with some threats is soo worth building around IMO. ^_^ (thanks for sharing, though, I'll be sure to bring counters to them on my team).

 

[NOVED]

Ferrothorn is looking like a good partner I think. Deals with fairies, swampert, and can switch in for salamence decently if it needs to as well.

 

[cannibal]

There's actually 0 mons that can deal with Special M-Salamence's coverage.

I'm actually thinking that physical Mence sounds even more dangerous. And it could go mixed as well.

 

[NOVED]

I'm actually thinking that physical Mence sounds even more dangerous. And it could go mixed as well.

Physical mence will definitely be a threat too, has to worry about intimidate though.

 

[cannibal]

Physical mence will definitely be a threat too, has to worry about intimidate though.

I don't think Intimidate is going to stop it at all. Maybe undo part of a Dragon Dance, that's about it. Also, I'm sure that people will run mixed sets as well (Salamence has always been a prime candidate to go mixed, even before a Mega), and I can't really think of much that could survive attacks from both sides of the spectrum from that beast..

...Yeah, I'm not really looking forward to OR/AS league, tbh... It's just going to be Salamence+Salamence counters and that's pretty much it. -.-
I think I'll stick to XY League while it's still new to me. xD

 

[a0161613]

Could there be a chance to throw on a non megs Mence as a bluff?

 

[Pyritie]

Could there be a chance to throw on a non megs Mence as a bluff?

Normal mence is perfectly fine in doubles. Intimidate is a good ability and it's usually seen with a scarf to fire off fast draco meteors.

 

[Valzy]

Could there be a chance to throw on a non megs Mence as a bluff?

I believe that scarfed special Salamence can outspeed and OHKO Mega Salamence, but I can't do calcs on my ipad

 

[NOVED]

So from what I've found on the internet and what has been leaked by ProjectPokemon, this is what the hoenn dex is looking like. The dex in the pastebin was way off, probably want to update that. They're sticking to the original hoenn dex, only adding cross gen evos. Kind of a limited meta tbh.

http://pastebin.com/G9Xz7Kkm

 

[Feliburn]

Hmmmm I think I'll start using rhyperior.

 

[Pyritie]

fixed your image:

 

[Vinc2612]

Does it mean mega Latias and Latios will be legal? They also look terrible to handle, especially if the metagame is limited to the old Hoenn dex

 

[NOVED]

fixed your image:

Huh? What's the difference?

 

[Age of Kings]

Thanks for the correction, NOVED. I've changed the OP.

I know everyone will prefer to play the new games but this is an area where I encourage people to try the XY League. It's a slightly different meta but I expect the gains (Altaria, etc) will be worth the loss (Salamence). I agree Mega Salamence will fill the void Kanga left in this metagame. In fact, I think that its unpredictability is something Salamence trumps Kanga in. While it lacks priority, it has just enough speed to outrun almost everything and its bulk + Intimidate before MegaEvo stave off priority revenge kills.

I'm not saying Salamence is objectively better than Kanga because that is obviously untrue. But I will say that Salamence has the potential to be more dangerous because your opponent gets a free turn to force you to guess what set it is running. We already have this with Charizard - part of Charizard's power is forcing you to guess which Mega it is (Y is of course much more popular in doubles but I'm using this as a more general example). Salamence not only has the element of surprise but also Intimidate, a better speed tier, better coverage, and less reliable checks. I think that contrary to popular notions, physical is very viable, partially for its pure power and partially as a lure. Not fun to be on the receiving end when you EV to take a DMeteor or Hyper Voice and then take 70%+ from Return, allowing you to beat the Fairies 1v1.

This isn't to say that Salamence can't be beaten. It certainly can. Special sets are checked by the Fairies I listed above and proper usage of Wide Guard. Physical variants fall prey to Intimidate, priority burn, and Regirock/Rhyperior. Mixed is somewhat anything goes but it will probably be stretched thin as far as damage calcs go. It has no recourse against anything with a Choice Scarf + SE move and dreads seeing Milotic on the field. I'm mainly using this as a pitch to illustrate the differences between the two metas and that it's worth sticking with XY for the Special ladder.

Lastly: big shoutout to absolutely zero redirect in this meta.

 

[NOVED]

Yeah, salamence reminds me a bit of Mega Luc, where it can be physical or special. Except Salamence is just all around more powerful lol.
We have some pretty good flying and dragon resists though. Steels will have to watch out for Fire Blast depending on the set but there's things like Metagross which can take one and do good damage back.

 

[Valzy]

Yeah, salamence reminds me a bit of Mega Luc, where it can be physical or special. Except Salamence is just all around more powerful lol.
We have some pretty good flying and dragon resists though. Steels will have to watch out for Fire Blast depending on the set but there's things like Metagross which can take one and do good damage back.

Mega Salamence isn't more powerful lol, it's actually weaker than Mega Lucario. It's better than Lucario because of its bulk and speed, not its power.

252 SpA Mega Salamence Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 69-82 (39.4 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery


252 SpA Aerilate Mega Salamence Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 94-112 (53.7 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 124-147 (70.8 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


252 Atk Mega Salamence Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 111-132 (63.4 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 148-176 (84.5 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO


252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Manaphy: 98-116 (56 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[NOVED]

Mega Salamence isn't more powerful lol, it's much weaker than Mega Lucario. It's better than Lucario because of its bulk and speed, not its power.

You misunderstand me. Poor choice of words but when I said "powerful" i didn't mean in terms of damage just in the sense of how good it is. That's why i said "all around more powerful".
Much better bulk, better speed, a great spread move, intimidate before mega evolving.

 

[Pyritie]

Huh? What's the difference?

You didn't see it because it was cached, but everyone else just saw a "4chan leech" image