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ORAS UU Discussion
- Thread starter Calloflochie
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Lopunny Is Confirmed to have HJK
Ash Borer
I've heard they're short of room in hell
Gallade will probably be overwhelming. It's very fast for this meta, and a handful of mons that can outspeed such as Azelf, Raikou and Alakazam are not able to check it due to its solid special defense. Crobat, Absol and Aerodactyl are definitely good checks to offensive M-Gallade, as are any physically offensive scarf user too, but they're just that, checks. A lot of traditional scarf users, and all of those checks have a death wish if they are trying to switch in.
It's typing and movepool seem to fit fairly well against the tier's defensive mons. Close Combat / Zen Headbutt / Knock Off / Swords Dance hit everything quite nicely with STAB, Knock Off hits super effectively the Psychic types that otherwise wall it. This is an important distinction with "total neutral coverage" as hitting a wall with UnSTAB neutral attacks is useless. Granbull, Florges, Aromatisse being subjected to Zen Headbutt will be difficult, Celebi, Jirachi, and Cress vs Knock Off is not a sure victory for Gallade but a bit prior damage through momentum and hazards is all it takes. Alomomola and Suicune are challenges, naturally, but can either of them do anything but rely on a scald burn while Gallade just continues to Swords Dance right next to them?
and again 110 speed makes it very competent vs. a lot of offense, so Gallade is very flexible on teams creating no new weaknesses for teams against offense or defense and its strong as shit.
for your consideration:
+2 252 Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 320-378 (72 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celebi: 364-430 (90 - 106.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 276-325 (67.9 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Aromatisse Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gallade: 182-216 (65.4 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Granbull: 207-244 (53.9 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+4 252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 459-541 (113.6 - 133.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gallade: 70-84 (25.1 - 30.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
hell: +2 252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 306-361 (75.7 - 89.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
not bad at all. Granbull has no recovery, so its generally one of the easier walls to wear down. Cressy needs to go fully defensive and must run Thunder Wave to stop Gallade. A mixed defensive set struggles vs +2 Knock Off and Stealth Rock. This bears a lot of predictability and weakness to special pounding from team mates.
sableye destroys Gallade though, lol
Mega Metagross seems (not is) more viable than Mega Hera so I wouldn't wonder if we get normal Herracross back.
And of course a lot of other Megas will drop for a while because everyone wants to test all the new toys we are getting.
And of course a lot of other Megas will drop for a while because everyone wants to test all the new toys we are getting.
Mega Pinsir coming to UU town! Lol jk
I'm excited for all of the new setup sweepers we may get. Diancie could use Rock Polish, Metagross could use agility, Altaria could use Dragon Dance, Sceptile may find use for Swords Dance, Mega Gallade could use Swords Dance, and Beedrill, of course, will use Swords Dance.
If only Lopunny got Swords Dance lol that would be awesome.
EDIT: Lucario may actually get a break for once!!
If only Lopunny got Swords Dance lol that would be awesome.
EDIT: Lucario may actually get a break for once!!
I dont see Aegislash coming back. There are new megas, but its not like any ofthe new ones threaten him. The only ones thatbwill threaten him are Mega Swampy (watch out for Kings shield) and Mega Sableye with WoW/CM shenanigans.
Mega hera is way too strong for UU meta, but Mega Mane will be nice to have back if it drops (Ou still has talonflame...). I think these are the new toys we will be getting with a few surely to rise, with even
fewer to drop in all seriousness.
Mega Swampert doesn't have to watch out for King's Shield, Earthquake isn't a contact move. I don't know if Swampert will be able to OHKO Shield Forme from full, though, so you still run the risk of eating a Shadow Ball.
I know, but spamming Earthquake is never a good thing and it's basically forced to do that, thus putting the pressure on the Swampert user moreso than the Aegi user. But, I'm not going to get into that too much lol
Anyone thought about how these new releases will affect the Megas and other Pokemon we have currently? For example I could see Mega Absol falling off the face of the earth as now it faces competition from Pokemon with comparable speed and power, but with dual STABs/better overall typing and like triple the bulk. I guess its saving grace is its strong priority but it's not exactly reliable priority.
Another pretty big thing that results from the new Megas is the shift in the overall speed of the metagame. "Fast" Pokemon like Mienshao and Infernape pale in comparison to basically every single offensive Mega introduced. Gallade, Metagross, and Diancie all hit base 110 which are massive jumps from all three of their base forms, meaning you can no longer answer to them with their usual checks (Ex: Krookodile no longer checks Metagross, Jirachi no longer counters Diancie). Not to mention the nearly unrivaled speed of the likes of Sceptile, Beedrill, Lopunny, and especially Sharpedo after a boost.
As a side note I think Pursuit Metagross could work wonderfully, trapping the likes of Jirachi and Alakazam. A Tough Claws boosted Pursuit in addition to the increase in base Attack hits roughly as hard as a Choice Banded Pursuit, but now you're not locked into Pursuit which is a pretty bad idea in this metagame.
Another pretty big thing that results from the new Megas is the shift in the overall speed of the metagame. "Fast" Pokemon like Mienshao and Infernape pale in comparison to basically every single offensive Mega introduced. Gallade, Metagross, and Diancie all hit base 110 which are massive jumps from all three of their base forms, meaning you can no longer answer to them with their usual checks (Ex: Krookodile no longer checks Metagross, Jirachi no longer counters Diancie). Not to mention the nearly unrivaled speed of the likes of Sceptile, Beedrill, Lopunny, and especially Sharpedo after a boost.
As a side note I think Pursuit Metagross could work wonderfully, trapping the likes of Jirachi and Alakazam. A Tough Claws boosted Pursuit in addition to the increase in base Attack hits roughly as hard as a Choice Banded Pursuit, but now you're not locked into Pursuit which is a pretty bad idea in this metagame.
It can.
252+ Atk Swampert Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 282-332 (87 - 102.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 175-207 (51.3 - 60.7%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Mega Swampert can afford to run bulk too, so it might actually counter Aegislash.
I'm most excited about Gallade and its blazing speed. I thought it would get 100 speed and be overall worse than Mienshao, but that 110 speed is amazing for it, able to outspeed... well Mienshao. I don't think it'll be overpowered. It's less immediately threatening than Mienshao, though it's harder to come up with 100% foolproof counters, but I think there'll be enough ways to deal with it that it'll be pretty balanced. SD is gonna be awesome, but I'm kinda excited about what kind of killer BU sets are gonna pop up. Coming up with an EV spread for BU Mega Gallade is gonna be fun
Metagross' new speed is amazing for it as well. It has some shot at OU. If it winds up in UU, what are some good ways to deal with it? It used to be that bulky waters like Alomomola or Suicune can come in and counter 100% of its sets, but with its stat upgrades and tough claws, Grass Knot will hurt both of them badly. Maybe with its newly found strengths, it'll wind up being LESS bulky than traditional Metagross sets. The speed is just so valuable that it would be a shame to not invest in speed. With its amazing mixed stats, it may run a -def or -sdef nature. So due to both natures and EV spreads it may end up having "only" great bulk. Fletchinder seems decent, checking both Metagross and Gallade
Pidgeot I can see ending up in RU. I see it as no better than Crobat. It's way more offensive, but provides way less utility and has a worse typing. They do different things and get the job done in different ways, but as a speedy Defogger, I think Crobat is overall better at its job. The set I'm gonna be trying out is U-Turn/Hurricane/Defog/Roost with Timid, max speed/spatk. Flying is really spammable STAB so I don't mind having essentially mono-attack. There are some big time safe switch-ins like Rhyperior and Aggron, but meh I don't care. I'm not so obsessed with training pokemon that have zero counters, and against those switch-ins, Pidgeot can U-turn out or Defog then switch, so it's already done its job even if it gets 100% hard countered. I see Pidgeot as an offensive defogger and I feel this set is gonna maximize what it's supposed to do. Hurricane/Heat Wave/HP Grass is nice and can clean the game pretty well, and that's definitely worth a try, but I feel that there are already a lot of good speedy special attackers out there that a fully offensive Pidgeot is gonna be relatively mediocre
I think Lopunny is gonna end up OU. Not the most threatening mon out there, but it'll be super spammy and I think its spamminess is a really attractive playstyle. You can all laugh at me later
Metagross' new speed is amazing for it as well. It has some shot at OU. If it winds up in UU, what are some good ways to deal with it? It used to be that bulky waters like Alomomola or Suicune can come in and counter 100% of its sets, but with its stat upgrades and tough claws, Grass Knot will hurt both of them badly. Maybe with its newly found strengths, it'll wind up being LESS bulky than traditional Metagross sets. The speed is just so valuable that it would be a shame to not invest in speed. With its amazing mixed stats, it may run a -def or -sdef nature. So due to both natures and EV spreads it may end up having "only" great bulk. Fletchinder seems decent, checking both Metagross and Gallade
Pidgeot I can see ending up in RU. I see it as no better than Crobat. It's way more offensive, but provides way less utility and has a worse typing. They do different things and get the job done in different ways, but as a speedy Defogger, I think Crobat is overall better at its job. The set I'm gonna be trying out is U-Turn/Hurricane/Defog/Roost with Timid, max speed/spatk. Flying is really spammable STAB so I don't mind having essentially mono-attack. There are some big time safe switch-ins like Rhyperior and Aggron, but meh I don't care. I'm not so obsessed with training pokemon that have zero counters, and against those switch-ins, Pidgeot can U-turn out or Defog then switch, so it's already done its job even if it gets 100% hard countered. I see Pidgeot as an offensive defogger and I feel this set is gonna maximize what it's supposed to do. Hurricane/Heat Wave/HP Grass is nice and can clean the game pretty well, and that's definitely worth a try, but I feel that there are already a lot of good speedy special attackers out there that a fully offensive Pidgeot is gonna be relatively mediocre
I think Lopunny is gonna end up OU. Not the most threatening mon out there, but it'll be super spammy and I think its spamminess is a really attractive playstyle. You can all laugh at me later
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Fletchinder in no way checks Metagross. Tough Claws Zen Headbutt will break it in two while it has no way to reliably hurt Metagross. And I'm pretty sure even a resisted Meteor Mash will bop it right in the dome, given Fletch's paper-thin bulk.
EIDT: I totally forgot about Will-O-Wisp. That still only beats non-Agiligross. And really, Agiligross is going to be a monster, possibly Megagross' premiere set. Either Agiligross or an all-out attacker.
EDIT 2: Fletchinder only has base 86 Speed. Fletchinder quakes at the sight of Megagross.
EIDT: I totally forgot about Will-O-Wisp. That still only beats non-Agiligross. And really, Agiligross is going to be a monster, possibly Megagross' premiere set. Either Agiligross or an all-out attacker.
EDIT 2: Fletchinder only has base 86 Speed. Fletchinder quakes at the sight of Megagross.
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and diancie was 'confirmed' to have power gem. i'd rather wait for the official confirmation from the game.
You are right, I spaced out for some reason and forgot what a Metagross is
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-research-thread.3519780/
For the record, Diancie still doesn't get Power Gem. Bummer.
It was found in its level-up movepool data and GameFreak explicitly said that Lopunny got HJK, so it's a different situation than just seeing Diancie use Power Gem in a trailer.
I would say that playing with Mega Sableye is pretty nifty. I'm actually relieved that GameFreak decided to have a soft spot for Sableye considering they decreased its speed down to base 20. But it does slow down its momentum. Even though I prefer Prankster over Magic Bounce, the ability still comes in handy against Hazards, Leech Seed, and Status. Also when Sableye uses its mega evolution, GameFreak decided to give it 1 turn to use prankster. So I can tell Sableye will still have a solid spot in UU. n_n
kokoloko Calloflochie Ernesto Can we unban everything in BL and start a new fresh list again? I think that the new Mega-Evos are enough to warrant a re-categorization of what is broken in UU and what isn't.
inb4lameexcusetouseMegaMence
inb4lameexcusetouseMegaMence
I mean all at once. I like chaos.
Probably not as an official game since I doubt they'd want to put all those weeks of testing go to waste, and they have been clear they won't unban more than once. Besides the suspect process is made exactly with mind of ORAS, so as to get as many bans done as possible before the shift rather than lag behind.
Maybe as a sort of fun free for all just for the hell of it in commemoration for ORAS that maybe lasts a few days or something or a week? Just so the tier has some sort of festivity. Though I guess this all depends on how eager the council is in diving into their work, since this will undoubtedly be distracting from looking at real suspects (courtesy of M-Mence).
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