Ferrothorn dies to Hammer Arm, Skarmory hates Thunder Punch, and Zen Headbutt or Meteor Mash take care of Mega Venusaur. None of them can really do anything back anyway.
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Other ORAS Mega Speculation Thread (NO talk about potential bans NOR Aegislash)
- Thread starter Aragorn the King
- Start date
- Status
I AM THE JAMAICAN BOBSLED TEAM
formerly Smog Frog
le wallbreaker megagross:
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 208 Atk / 120 SpA / 180 Spe
Mild Nature
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Earthquake
- Meteor Mash
- Grass Knot
this set was built with mega slowbro in mind. it is really proficient at wall breaking with its high power+coverage. mega slowbro will come in expecting to set up for free, but it is sadly mistaken as it will eat a grass knot instead. now this set is primarily meant to be a wall breaker, so i tried to find a balance of power+coverage, and this was the best mix i could find. HP fire takes on mega scizor, ferrothorn, and skarmory nice n ez, meteor mash nabs fairies+chansey(note that won't be 2hkod 100%, but it won't want to switch in anyways because of a potential attack boost meteor mash might give metagross), while EQ takes heatran. since 110 neutral hits an awkward speed, I EV'd it to outspeed neutral base 100s. this set doesnt completely suck against offense either, since it switches into most azus even with mild nature, latios(courtesy of mild nature), pinsirs not using knock off/eq, and more. the closest thing you will find to a counter to this set is phys def gliscor, and even then its risky because of meteor mash's potential attack raise.
you can slash some things for extra utility such as sr or pursuit.
*i am not saying this is its best set, i am just bringing it out there
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 208 Atk / 120 SpA / 180 Spe
Mild Nature
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Earthquake
- Meteor Mash
- Grass Knot
this set was built with mega slowbro in mind. it is really proficient at wall breaking with its high power+coverage. mega slowbro will come in expecting to set up for free, but it is sadly mistaken as it will eat a grass knot instead. now this set is primarily meant to be a wall breaker, so i tried to find a balance of power+coverage, and this was the best mix i could find. HP fire takes on mega scizor, ferrothorn, and skarmory nice n ez, meteor mash nabs fairies+chansey(note that won't be 2hkod 100%, but it won't want to switch in anyways because of a potential attack boost meteor mash might give metagross), while EQ takes heatran. since 110 neutral hits an awkward speed, I EV'd it to outspeed neutral base 100s. this set doesnt completely suck against offense either, since it switches into most azus even with mild nature, latios(courtesy of mild nature), pinsirs not using knock off/eq, and more. the closest thing you will find to a counter to this set is phys def gliscor, and even then its risky because of meteor mash's potential attack raise.
you can slash some things for extra utility such as sr or pursuit.
*i am not saying this is its best set, i am just bringing it out there
I wouldn't really say skarm hates thunder punch. Without rocks it's a 3HKO and with rocks it's not a guaranteed 2HKO. Counter sets could be a problem.
This is assuming adamant, jolly is even worse.
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 136-160 (40.7 - 47.9%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 344-408 (95.8 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 260-308 (71.4 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Hidden Power Fire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 128-152 (42.3 - 50.3%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Metagross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 87-103 (24.7 - 29.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 54-64 (17.8 - 21.1%) -- possible 5HKO
(you can always use Hammer Arm, but that's stretching a bit)
252+ Atk Tough Claws Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 148-176 (44.3 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
No offense, but if you take a quick look at the new mega list you have 120s, 135s and 145s as well as DD'ers and such, as much as 110 is beyond anyone has ever hoped for it has merit.
Skarmory runs Shed Shell more often than not to stop Magnezone from trapping it, so I would say that Thunder Punch could still work if you really wanted Skarm dead.
The amazing thing is it seems like it might be at least somewhat usable.
Lopunny gets Power Up Punch which leaves it pretty close to unwallable at +1. Power Up Punch / High Jump Kick / Return (or Facade w/e) / Ice Punch seems pretty scary.
IMO, Grass Knot is going to be mandatory on M-Meta, given he gets used as setup bait by M-Slowbro and walled by M-Steelix otherwise.
Wonder if we'll see a rise in M-Aggron, given his ability to wall pretty much anything M-Metagross can come up with.
Wonder if we'll see a rise in M-Aggron, given his ability to wall pretty much anything M-Metagross can come up with.
M-Sceptile (145), M-Gallade (110), M-Pidgeot (121), M-Diancie (110), M-Rayquaza (115), M-Lopunny (135), M-Salamence (120) and M-Beedrill (145). These are the Megas that tie/outspeed M-Metagross in terms of speed and only a couple of them will be OU I guess. Yes, 110 is not fabulous, but it's pretty good since it outspeeds a big majority of the tier.
That's exactly what I'm referring to. A fast powerful pokemon with the ability to go down while healing a team mate 100% to continue the onslaught is amazing.
Well, regardless of whether I actually prove it or not, it's not getting Swords Dance or Dragon Dance or whatever anytime soon, so idk what's the point of proving anything if normal Metagross can't deal with these same counters or have the appropriate setup moves to deal with them. I'll humor you, though.
>Ferrothorn
50/50 case, you can nail it with two Hammer Arms or Hidden Power Fires, but Metagross will likely not be carrying them. In any case, it's not getting past it with Hone Claws either and it'll likely be Thunder Wave'd or Leech Seeded in the process. Stay away from it as you would with normal Metagross.
>Skarmory
Thunder Punch 3HKOes, but it'll just Roost that off, and at the same time it's very easy to deal with outside of Metagross. You can use the Skarmory card for pretty much other physical threats, though, and you're certainly not using Hone Claws just for it. You have better things to worry about that that thing in terms of coverage anyway, since it can easily be worn down, and stuff like Gliscor can't.
>Mega Venusaur
This is a joke, right? No Venusaur is going to willingly switch into this thing and get mauled by Meteor Mash or Zen Headbutt.
Dragon Dance users are an obvious case since, well, they'll obviously outrun almost anything after a boost so idk what's the point of mentioning them, and prepared offensive teams do not let Gyarados, Dragonite, and Charizard set up healthily. And yes, great, there ARE *surprise* faster Pokemon that outrun base 110s. 110, however, is already fast enough in itself to outrun a majority of the game, so I also don't understand the point of debating this when it's already around a pretty cool speed tier, and huge threats like Latios and Keldeo fall into it.
If you run agility megagross you dont need max speed at all. Its all about what you want to outspeed. Jolly excadrill in sand is probably the highest you want to go. Unless you want to beat or tie other agiligross its unecessary to run max speed. Idk if this was stated anywhere else in the thread
You can also afford to run Adamant then, and trust me you don't want to speed tie with Latios/Gengar/Keldeo. Like I said, the appeal of 4 attacks is great but agility has its place even with 110 speed.
252 Atk/80 Spe/172 HP
116 EVs outspeeds Jolly Mamo.
If you want to outspeed Adamant Rush Drill after agility you need 80 Speed for Adamant MegaGross. Something like this:
252 Atk/80 Spe/172 HP
116 EVs outspeeds Jolly Mamo.
That's what I was thinking, except Fake Out over Ice Punch. I don't think Ice Punch is too valuable after PUP, as HJK still hits harder than 2X effective Ice Punch. Fake Out is just so good as you can hit ghost types, get rid of Multiscale, break sashes etc. and Lopunny has enough bulk to use PuP safely.
Gliscor is not a big deal at +1
+1 252 Atk Lopunny Return vs. 244 HP / 28+ Def Gliscor: 189-223 (53.6 - 63.3%) -- 85.2% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
This is nice too
252 Atk Lopunny Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 102-121 (39 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
Don't get me wrong guys I am just asking the calcs, I just want to clearly see what you guys are doing, I didn't say "Skarmory, Mega Venusaur and Ferrothorn totally check him" I am just asking you guys to look common things in the meta and show the results.
To be honest I am trying to move the discussion to something more feasible rather than bias.
top 3 is hard to predict, but i can certanly assure you that
Salamance
Intimidate
Salamencite
- Ddance
- Roost
- Dragon claw
- Double Edge
152 atk, 248 hp, 108 sdef/spe will be quite effective.
Again, as a late game cleaner, breaking sashes and multiscale should be done prior to her entering. She isn't set to do the same role as megacham. Doesn't quite have the power. Might as well use megacham if you're going to run fake out PuP.
That set is like mine, but I have Earthquake instead of Dragon Claw.
Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 196 HP / 108 Atk / 200 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Double-Edge/Return
- Earthquake
Shut down by Skarmory, who it cannot 2HKO even at +2.
+2 252+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 147-173 (44 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Mega Salamence, Beedrill and Metagross for several pages, how about we get some more discussion on Mega Gallade who may push Mega Medicham's usuage down quite a bit? How threatening will this guy be and will he be similar too Mega Lucario but without having Adaptability to push him into broken status?
That's what I'm saying.
Wish/Protect/Double-Edge/Fire Blast(Heat Wave or Flamethrower) would be a better Fat set.
Well rocks are a must, so Ice Punch can be used over Fake Out, I still think PuP is a good idea though, as like I said with Metagross, you can pick off something with PuP and then proceed to sweep everything. While Medicham can do the same thing, it doesn't have Scrappy, it's not as bulky, and it isn't nearly as fast. It also doesn't have as good netral STAB coverage.
Everything has counters. You can't say a set's bad just because something walls it. Although with my coverage of EQ + Double-Edge, much less things wall it.
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